1. #1

    Sire Denathrius should've been the main villain of Shadowlands, not The Jailer.

    I know, the Jailer's role isn't completely revealed yet, but the more I've seen from this guy from beta, and the more voice clips I hear, I'm just not feeling this guy. As of now, he just seems to be an underworld version of Sargeras. And I don't mind villains like Sargeras in video games, but we already have him, I don't see the reason why we need another. Hell, I would argue Sarg as of now has more depth than the Jailer, as his goal is somewhat noble, if not twisted. I'm also scared that the Jailer's sole purpose is just to further Sylvanas' story. Like yeah, he'll be the big bad, but a lot of attention is just going to end up being on the development of Sylvanas, and the Jailer is just a guy who has a role in that.

    Now Denathrius isn't some original villain either, but he isn't the kind of villain we see much of in wow. The affluent and regal aristocrat, who lets his position get in head, and only causes the upper members of his society to benefit, while the lower members suffer. It's likely he was once a "good" leader in the past, and dutifully carried out his role in Revendreth for centuries. There is also a family conflict he has, so that's even more development for him. His character seems to have composure, I quite like his VA, and he even has a talking sword. Overall, I find Denathrius to be a very cool character.

    To me the Jailer just feels way too generic, which would be ok, but we already have Sargeras. And while Denathrius isn't like the best character ever, I do find him more charismatic and layered compared to the Jailer.

  2. #2
    The thing about the Jailer is that he's just bland and generic. It's as boring of a villain as it can get. Denathrius is unique on his own (and the VA is great which also adds to the character), but I feel like people overvalue his "coolness", cause it's just in contrast to the Jailer.

    There's no doubt they will reveal more about the Jailer as the expansion goes on, but they already started badly with that, releasing (almost) an expansion with a villain we know nothing about. Hard to build that eagerness to fight your way through all of the bad to beat the big bad. We should be feeling this right when we enter the Shadowlands, not in 10.3 or whatever.

  3. #3
    TBH this is sort of the problem I have with WoW expansions.

    Questing and leveling content will often build up a 'major villain' within its ranks, but they kind of get overshadowed by higher tier bosses.

    WoD had Blackhand as a baddie. All the leveling and questing sort of props him up as the direct threat. But you take him down in a first tier raid and that's sorta said and done. The rest of the expansion you're just waiting to take down Gul'dan and whatever comes after.

    BFA I thought there was really great build up on the Drust king dude and on Prophet Zul. But they're just stepping stones to Azshara and N'zoth (and arguably Sylvanas herself).
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  4. #4
    Ellisande was an infinitely better antagonist than Gul’dan and everyone else in Legion (KJ at least is an interesting character) and nobody cared then because MUH OLD CHARACTER WHEEEEE.

    Sylvanas is the old villain you wanna kill, Jailer is a new lore villain, they’re meant to balance each other out.

    Demathrius has zero character besides “faithful servant” and thats even till he “dies”. Jailer and Sylvy are basically absent at launch so it’s silly to complain about how they are written.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Ellisande was an infinitely better antagonist than Gul’dan and everyone else in Legion (KJ at least is an interesting character) and nobody cared then because MUH OLD CHARACTER WHEEEEE.

    Sylvanas is the old villain you wanna kill, Jailer is a new lore villain, they’re meant to balance each other out.

    Demathrius has zero character besides “faithful servant” and thats even till he “dies”. Jailer and Sylvy are basically absent at launch so it’s silly to complain about how they are written.
    There is a possibility that Denathrius might survive or get revived after his raid encounter in Castle of Nathria.

  6. #6
    I wished we just join Denathrius and crush the rebellion :/

  7. #7
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I still prefer the Jailer and Denathrius is nice but I think his appeal is mostly his outward "Sophisticated" personality. Also more news at 11 new characters don't have much to them until we learn more.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I still prefer the Jailer and Denathrius is nice but I think his appeal is mostly his outward "Sophisticated" personality. Also more news at 11 new characters don't have much to them until we learn more.
    All signs right now just point to him being another Sargeras. He, like Sargeras, is cast out of a "pantheon," he wants to raise his own infinite army, he reaches out to another to become a top lieutenant (Sylvanas=KJ and Archimonde). Even if blizz goes the route that The Jailer is trying to raise an army to stop another threat, then once again, he isn't much different than Sargeras.

    Like I said, I don't find Denathrius to be some sort of amazing on original character, but he is far more layered and has far more personality than the Jailer. He is sort of like Dracula mixed with dark version of Hades who abuses his power in the Underworld.

  9. #9
    Or... maybe the Jailer should have had Dentharius' voice/personaility/mannerisms instead?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Ellisande was an infinitely better antagonist than Gul’dan and everyone else in Legion (KJ at least is an interesting character) and nobody cared then because MUH OLD CHARACTER WHEEEEE.

    Sylvanas is the old villain you wanna kill, Jailer is a new lore villain, they’re meant to balance each other out.

    Demathrius has zero character besides “faithful servant” and thats even till he “dies”. Jailer and Sylvy are basically absent at launch so it’s silly to complain about how they are written.
    Well, hopefully we won't have repeat from Legion where Xavius, Elisande and Gu'dan got better build up than Kil'jaeden and Sargeras.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Dalheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I still prefer the Jailer and Denathrius is nice but I think his appeal is mostly his outward "Sophisticated" personality. Also more news at 11 new characters don't have much to them until we learn more.
    I think Lei Shen, the Thunder King, is the best new villain they've managed to make. Hopefully they can give more of a perspective of the Jailer in the same way they did with Lei Shen.

  12. #12
    Same as Elisandre or Azshara could carry their own expansion.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Ellisande was an infinitely better antagonist than Gul’dan and everyone else in Legion (KJ at least is an interesting character) and nobody cared then because MUH OLD CHARACTER WHEEEEE.

    Sylvanas is the old villain you wanna kill, Jailer is a new lore villain, they’re meant to balance each other out.

    Demathrius has zero character besides “faithful servant” and thats even till he “dies”. Jailer and Sylvy are basically absent at launch so it’s silly to complain about how they are written.
    This. A well characterized villain, with her own reasons. I’ve always felt that Elisande and Gul’dan were better developed than Kil’Jaeden and Sargeras
    Last edited by Nowhere886; 2020-11-07 at 01:06 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    The thing about the Jailer is that he's just bland and generic. It's as boring of a villain as it can get. Denathrius is unique on his own (and the VA is great which also adds to the character), but I feel like people overvalue his "coolness", cause it's just in contrast to the Jailer.
    They absolutely do.

    Don't get me wrong - Denathrius hits the vampire vibe just right. But it's a pretty generic vampire vibe, and he doesn't do it any better than the hundreds of others we've seen before. (And a killer VA helps, but doesn't completely fix the problem.)

    Like, one could argue similarities between Castlevania and Revendreth. And don't get me started on Ravenloft, which is basically THE inspiration here.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-11-07 at 01:11 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    They absolutely do.

    Don't get me wrong - Denathrius hits the vampire vibe just right. But it's a pretty generic vampire vibe, and he doesn't do it any better than the hundreds of others we've seen before. (And a killer VA helps, but doesn't completely fix the problem.)

    Like, one could argue similarities between Castlevania and Revendreth. And don't get me started on Ravenloft, which is basically THE inspiration here.
    Ravenloft itself is very directly inspired by Hammer Horror and similar Gothic horror (Universal to some extent, though less than Hammer - but Hammer was inspired by Universal!) of the 1950s through 1970s, layered with AD&D tropes. The original boxed set (not the adventure, but when they turned it into a setting) goes into a lot of detail about the inspiration and tone, and why it's different from the then-popular "slasher" movies of the 1970s and 1980s. It's actually quite snooty about it in kind of a hilariously "old person" way.

    Revendreth looks like a mixture of Castlevania and Vampire Hunter D (and similar) aesthetics together with Ravenloft ideas, and a modern twist (they're doing this as their job/role in the cosmos, not just because they're malicious).

    I agree that Denatharius is getting pretty over-hyped. The Jailer could do with more going on, but I dunno if it's reasonable to expect that yet.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Ellisande was an infinitely better antagonist than Gul’dan and everyone else in Legion (KJ at least is an interesting character) and nobody cared then because MUH OLD CHARACTER WHEEEEE.

    Sylvanas is the old villain you wanna kill, Jailer is a new lore villain, they’re meant to balance each other out.

    Demathrius has zero character besides “faithful servant” and thats even till he “dies”. Jailer and Sylvy are basically absent at launch so it’s silly to complain about how they are written.
    Disagree with the Gul'dan bit, imo he's been the best villain we've had in a long time.

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