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  1. #1
    Dreadlord
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    What kind of logic is blizz thinking?

    S priest and A lock running S Tier ALL beta and no adjustments
    S Hunter/Feral/Demon Lock running C tier all Beta and no adjustments

    Elemental Shaman Running B tier most of Beta and get nerfed......

    Thank god I havent bought Shadowlands cause their testing and balance is worse than ever

  2. #2
    they cant all be winners every patch/expansion,this is what blizz does

    shadow and affliction needed changing as they became somewhat unfun in recent times

    elemental had its moment to shine as nr 1 dps in legion (even if it wwas a slot machine)

    feral is a bit of a tricky one,i think they are afraid to make it stronger because of its higher skillcap than most specs,it will result in rly good players doing good or great dps and mediocre players doing really low,it happened to shadow in legion

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Locruid View Post
    S priest and A lock running S Tier ALL beta and no adjustments
    idk about locks, but dude. do you not pay attention at all? like literally any attention? spriests have been CONSTANTLY getting adjustments, mostly nerfs after the rework. stop spouting bs.

  4. #4
    I Think we need to get out of this S tier A tier mentality.

    I get that its being constantly peddled by youtubers and streamers.

    But like, its just not really relevant, different classes are good for different things, locks cant lust, priests cant lust, Strengths and weaknesses exist.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ModernWitch View Post
    I Think we need to get out of this S tier A tier mentality.

    I get that its being constantly peddled by youtubers and streamers.

    But like, its just not really relevant, different classes are good for different things, locks cant lust, priests cant lust, Strengths and weaknesses exist.
    If you weren't talking about a 20% difference in dps this would be accurate. This close to release one would hope the numbers would at least be approaching parity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  6. #6
    I think there has always been a final balance pass closer to release than we are now. So even though we're close even up to a week before we could get a major balance pass.

    I'm always a little leery on these claims too, because usually when you look into them it's cherry picking one fight by someone to complain about their favorite main class/spec not being on top. Or a YouTuber just making an attention grabbing video. The giveaways on those videos are the screaming face thumbnail. title saying something like Blizzard is ruining wow and the sky is falling, and a video runtime of slightly over 10 minutes for monetization. Bonus points if it's for a minor change or issue.

  7. #7
    Final class tuning will happen between launch and Mythic raid opening. Like it always does.
    The massively increased amount of data from live at max level will also help them with that, especially the data from the first raid week.

    Of course specs will never be all identical. Its just the nature of the beast. Factors like skill cap, gear scaling etc all make that impossible.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Locruid View Post
    S priest and A lock running S Tier ALL beta and no adjustments
    S Hunter/Feral/Demon Lock running C tier all Beta and no adjustments

    Elemental Shaman Running B tier most of Beta and get nerfed......

    Thank god I havent bought Shadowlands cause their testing and balance is worse than ever
    Ele was not nerfed. What are you talking about

  9. #9
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Ele was not nerfed. What are you talking about
    It actually was...
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    It actually was...
    Nope. They buffed our dmg, healing, and utility. What makes u think they nerfed ele?

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Nope. They buffed our dmg, healing, and utility. What makes u think they nerfed ele?
    Chain Harvest + Echoing Shock, maybe? Also EQ leggo and some other things. Wouldn't call these unreasonable, was obvious they were over performing.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  12. #12
    I think that during beta they should mainly focus on mechanics rather than numbers.

    Abilities’ numbers are relatively easy to fix, rotations and “what a skill does” are less easy to fix.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Chain Harvest + Echoing Shock, maybe? Also EQ leggo and some other things. Wouldn't call these unreasonable, was obvious they were over performing.
    Pwave was already outpefroming chain harvest + EcS in all scenarios except huge aoe, so that change dont make a big difference. And EQ leggo was overperforming like you said.

    They changed ele flow a bit by reducing LvS proc from 15 to 10% but it is still not a nerf since the dmg tuning it not done yet.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    they cant all be winners every patch/expansion,this is what blizz does

    shadow and affliction needed changing as they became somewhat unfun in recent times

    elemental had its moment to shine as nr 1 dps in legion (even if it wwas a slot machine)

    feral is a bit of a tricky one,i think they are afraid to make it stronger because of its higher skillcap than most specs,it will result in rly good players doing good or great dps and mediocre players doing really low,it happened to shadow in legion
    To be fair that isnt really a valid statement in this case.

    Shaman is consistently a stigmatised class, memed and seen by the community as being subpar for a VERY long time. They have their moments, but over the past decade they have been seriously subpar a lot of the time. They are a class that should be getting extra crafting and attention and they arent. Its all fine and dandy talking about unfun in recent times, but when Afflok has been absolutely god tier for most of the past decade then thats a pretty small issue.

    Shaman has had really damn rough times and need balancing numbers wise, and playstyle wise and its not getting that attention.

    For example, as far as I can remember, all Enh players harp on about is lack of survivability/defensives. Its so blindingly obvious yet its 2020 and they're still saying the same thing. Thats why Shamans are so fucking frustrated, and thats totally understandable. They've reworked half the classes in the game multiple times yet they cant even add a small defensive to a class, its not good enough.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Ele was not nerfed. What are you talking about
    Lava surge 15% -> 10%. We're going to go from 18% to 10% in a day. It's gonna hurt.
    Avatar given by Sausage Zeldas.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    To be fair that isnt really a valid statement in this case.

    Shaman is consistently a stigmatised class, memed and seen by the community as being subpar for a VERY long time. They have their moments, but over the past decade they have been seriously subpar a lot of the time. They are a class that should be getting extra crafting and attention and they arent. Its all fine and dandy talking about unfun in recent times, but when Afflok has been absolutely god tier for most of the past decade then thats a pretty small issue.

    Shaman has had really damn rough times and need balancing numbers wise, and playstyle wise and its not getting that attention.

    For example, as far as I can remember, all Enh players harp on about is lack of survivability/defensives. Its so blindingly obvious yet its 2020 and they're still saying the same thing. Thats why Shamans are so fucking frustrated, and thats totally understandable. They've reworked half the classes in the game multiple times yet they cant even add a small defensive to a class, its not good enough.
    But Ele was top dps spec in all tiers except from Nya. And Resto is great raid healer.

    Shaman problem is that many people who have no clue how to play the class keep talking about how supbar or bad shaman is compared to other classes, which is never the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    Lava surge 15% -> 10%. We're going to go from 18% to 10% in a day. It's gonna hurt.
    It is still not a nerf, just change in gameplay.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    But Ele was top dps spec in all tiers except from Nya. And Resto is great raid healer.
    Last time i checked, Uldir was an entire tier as well.

    And no, that overlap between Uldir and 8.1 class changes doesn't count.
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Shaman problem is that many people who have no clue how to play the class keep talking about how supbar or bad shaman is compared to other classes, which is never the case.
    That is just propaganda.
    If Dps Shaman would be more solid, you will see them more often, because people who have an understanding of the Meta game realize that potential and play them.

    People saw that Elemental in particular got strong in 8.1 and people started playing it, then it dropped in 8.3 as Elemental scaled poorly with corruption in comparison to other classes.

    This is just parroting something about this "community perception" boogeyman, which is at best a half truth.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Last time i checked, Uldir was an entire tier as well.

    And no, that overlap between Uldir and 8.1 class changes doesn't count.
    Why so? Just so u can keep crying how Ele is bad when it isnt? Ele was top spec in Uldir post 8.1 , rank 1 in BoD, Rank 4 in EP. Ele only dropped behind in Nya and it was because of corruption not because spec itself was bad. But then Enh was crazy strong in Nya with full haste coru just almost no one played the spec.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Why so? Just so u can keep crying how Ele is bad when it isnt? Ele was top spec in Uldir post 8.1
    Because progression was over at this point for most guilds and 8.1 is the patch intended for BoD, they just didn't want to drop a new raid right before the holidays.

    It's pretty dishonest to rationalize 3 months of being terrible, then when said content is about to become irrelevant, to consider it great because a patch release doesn't perfectly align with the release of a new raid.

    It's like saying SP did well in Ny'alotha while pointing at current logs, while ignoring the actual Meta that was present during the lifecycle of 8.3.

    8.0 Elemental was probably the worst iterations of the spec of the past decade.
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Ele only dropped behind in Nya and it was because of corruption not because spec itself was bad.
    And who gives a shit why it drops?
    It dropped, that's the crux.

    Elemental also used to drop in later patches because it scaled poorly with gear, would be damn stupid to defend that by saying "well, we're fine, we just don't scale well with gear".
    The end results matter, corruption was part of 8.3, hence attempting to exclude that from the discussion is stupid.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Locruid View Post
    snip
    Yea, because a very subjective appreciation of classes made by different people with different bias should be Blizzard's way of balancing.

    There is tuning to be had, of course, but your observation is absurd.

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