Should You Use CurseForge? CEO Explains WoW App’s Privacy, Feature, Ad Changes

[rowaasr13]

Of course it's authorized. WoWUp does nothing Curseforge does not allow - they have the API key issued to them by Curseforge.

Overwolf can choose to revoke that API key and they already semi-floated it by threatening them to integrate adds or else, but what WoWUp does is definitely legal.

If Overwolf will choose to fuck WoWUp up, community will remember it.

I'm pretty sure majority of addon users don't even know about WoWUp. What community will sure HAVE to remember though, if OW runs out of money and shuts down CF with all infrastructure it provides to devs.

[Magical Mudcrab]

I haven't backpedaled at anything. Everything I said in this thread still stands. You can throw tantrums all you want but in the end its overwolf (and addon authors) decision where they host addons and under what conditions. If you dont like it you can always stop using addons.

So, once again, you've ascribed motive to me which does not exist, and has been shown to not exist. Consistently lying about what I have said, especially when I've quoted my own posts which show that I've defended Overwolf on points I think they should be defended on, is not a great look for you. Additionally, you've essentially backpedaled through omission, as you've disengaged on points that were core to posts and began posting irrelevant drivel that has no bearing on the post itself.

User experience with curseforge app is top notch. Application itself starts in ~1 second, has one add in bottom right corner, updates addons with one button and close button also closes overwolf (which I didn't give any consent to).

It is you who is delusioned about some imaginary problem that just doesn't exist. And I am not self proclaimed, im professional developer for well over 10 years. Addons is just my off hobby.

Condensing down user interaction to a single happy path scenario is disingenuous, and disregarding other people's experience using an application, as apparently you believe the world is centered around your, individual experience, shows that discussion on user experience is beyond you. It's not about having a personal issue with a platform, it's about having the bare-minimum ability to comprehend other people's issues with a platform and being able to engage with that.

[barrsftw]

nOn InTrUsIvE MaNnEr

[rowaasr13]

But it is supposed to be free, its what their policy on addons is: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Blizzard_AddOn_Policy

Nobody charges you for addons on CF - neither authors nor CF itself - you can go to site and download them without paying a single cent. What more CF ALSO provides lots of infrastructure for devs for free. But you do understand that it costs money to THEM and they do need to cover costs somehow? So they use ads and provide completely optional "pay forward" option for disabling them. This is exactly how authors use paypal and Patreon - you DON'T have to pay, but you can chose to.

[Magical Mudcrab]

But they are. Because the entire discussion is that those 3rd party apps and how you feel they fill a need better because the Curseforge App does not.

There's the broader discussion and the discussion which you interjected with. I will quote myself:

While 3rd party applications have been a main focus in the discussion, they're not actually very relevant to the core discussion around user experience, which is sort-of what the discussion I'm having in the quote has boiled down to.

The conversation you interjected into is based around user experience and this being a core issue that seems to be brought up by users.

You even later argue that your points are based on the principle rather then an actual lack of need. Which further shows how silly this entire discussion is. You can't commit to this being about 3rd party apps versus First party and even say there is no real issue with the First party app and you are just objecting to object.

Weird right?

I've never said that the issues users have weren't based on need, rather the reason I'm personally posting is on the principle that user experience and opinion on a platform matters; however, that does not mean that I cannot scrutinize some user feedback or cannot contextualize the reasons why some impacts have occurred.

My points are more based on principle, that user experience matters as a requirement and Overwolf, by virtue of the backlash they have been receiving, seems to not be meeting user needs.

It's not about objecting to object, it's about having the basic ability to understand another user's issues.

[rhorle]

The conversation you interjected into is based around user experience and this being a core issue that seems to be brought up by users.

But you said this isn't about 3rd party apps? The entire user experience argument is based on 3rd party apps doing things differently then Overwatch. Because Curse and Amazon both did exactly the same thing as Overwolf is doing for "user experience". And yet it wasn't that big of a deal. Weird huh? That something you keep saying is such a big deal was rarely mentioned with different companies.

Of course it is about objecting to object. You yourself said it isn't a problem but you are saying it is because of the principle of the matter. That is just a fancy way to justify objecting to object. You can't even state that Overwolf is not meeting "user experience" standards but keep it nebulous by using "seems to not be meeting". Again just fancy ways of saying you are objecting just to object.

[Toybox]

The problem is that the window being opened is by those other apps. There is nothing wrong with people wanting to use those other apps but it isn't needed. The default apps have always been perfectly fine. Curse, Twitch, and now Curseforge+Overwolf. They all work. Having no GUI, having less privacy concerns, pulling from other sites etc are all luxuries.

Is it fine to want those things? Sure. But to condemn or bash things for not having it is stupid. And lets face it "Faster" has nothing to do with this because the speed that things happens with any app is negligible. As long as Overwolf doesn't lock "Update All" behind a paywall like Curse once did then speed isn't a factor.

Again, I'll have to hard disagree on privacy being a luxury. If you were given a house to live in but you could be watched at any time while in that house, wouldn't that make you feel a little uncomfortable?

That said, I'm not oblivious to the fact that Overwolf needs to make money hosting all these damn addons, & our data very obviously has a price. If there was an option to pay the price they're going to be making off of the data they harvest, I'd be more than willing to pay it. After all, it'd probably only be pennies a month - and personally, I feel the desire to not leak shit to Google is worth more than that.

I couldn't get it from other complainers, but you seems to be informed, so maybe you can enlighten me at last: what EXACT private information OW spies from you? I'm pretty sure it doesn't look through your window as you read a book, so name something else.

If anything, app is harder to abuse to fingerprint than browser, because it is the very same browser inside, but with profile limited to visiting CurseForge. It simply doesn't have any of your "outside-CF" cookies/fingerprinting/whatever to actually abuse.

I know this has already been posted, but I'll post again from my very anti-big tech POV. I'll give my breakdown on each point...



Firstly, I take huge issue with opt-out telemetrics & privacy invading features in general. When Ubuntu added baked-in Amazon searches with an opt-out switch I immediately stopped using it, & instead moved to another OS. I'm alright with features like this if they're opt-in at installation, and very clearly explained to the user.

Also, what games I play is very comparable to what books I read. If someone can look through my window & see what books I read, or poke through my PC & see what games play, is there really any difference? Both are totally benign daily tasks, but when done from the privacy of ones own home, they should be treated as such unless explicitly told otherwise. Less of this opt-out nonsense, and more of the opt-in nonsense would be ideal.



Google can screw off as well. Apart from YouTube which is sadly impossible to escape right now, I lead a very pleasant anti-FANG life. I block everything Google related through script blocking addons, use DDG instead of Google, don't use any social media apart from a handful of forums (which I sign up for using dummy accounts), & very happily live life with a dumb-phone with a removeable battery. Add to that no web-connected cameras in the house, and mic with a dedicated kill switch, and a monitor for a TV, and I'm pretty comfortable, all things considered.

I know I'll be called paranoid & over the top, but the way I see it is I'm giving up very little to potentially gain quite a lot of peace of mind. What I get up to online is usually the most boring stuff imaginable, but the digital window shopping I partake in & the games that I play are absolutely no-one elses business but my own.

[Magical Mudcrab]

But you said this isn't about 3rd party apps? The entire user experience argument is based on 3rd party apps doing things differently then Overwatch. Because Curse and Amazon both did exactly the same thing as Overwolf is doing for "user experience". And yet it wasn't that big of a deal. Weird huh? That something you keep saying is such a big deal was rarely mentioned with different companies.

The issues users note would exist regardless of whether the 3rd party programs exist or not, and it's incredibly strange argument to imply it's necessarily causal; that people only have issues with Overwolf because these 3rd parties exist. Many of the issues would still exist, there just wouldn't be an analog to compare Overwolf to.

Of course it is about objecting to object. You yourself said it isn't a problem but you are saying it is because of the principle of the matter. That is just a fancy way to justify objecting to object. You can't even state that Overwolf is not meeting "user experience" standards but keep it nebulous by using "seems to not be meeting". Again just fancy ways of saying you are objecting just to object.

I've never said it's not a problem, I've said that I'm making arguments on the principle that user experience is an important aspect of an application and Overwolf seems to not be meeting user needs due to, as some posters have stated, a bad experience or distrust of the platform. We've briefly touched on some examples of this previously, such as advertisements which many users consider obtrusive, concerns with Overwolf increasing advertisements on the platform due to changes they've made on other platforms they've purchased, security issues with Overwolf including potentially performing data mining on machines, etc. The fact that I can look at these types of issues and acknowledge that people may consider them a problem is not "objecting to object" any more than you disagreeing with my position is "being contrarian to be contrary".

[Acidbaron]

Twitch and Overwolf have agreed upon a new transition period and so Curseforge API won't be inaccessible during launch week.

[rowaasr13]

I know this has already been posted, but I'll post again from my very anti-big tech POV. I'll give my breakdown on each point...

Everything listed in this list is done one on pretty much every site in existence. Right now you're posting on MMO-C that does everything there. In some jurisdictions you're even literally required to keep this info (sans google stuff of course). They also give you opt-out option. So, what's the problem with OW in particular?

[Toybox]

Everything listed in this list is done one on pretty much every site in existence. Right now you're posting on MMO-C that does everything there. In some jurisdictions you're even literally required to keep this info (sans google stuff of course). They also give you opt-out option. So, what's the problem with OW in particular?

But you can fully control what MMO Champ can & cannot see. You can sign up with dummy info, block everything script-based before entering, and mask your IP if so inclined. It isn't actually installed on your system, & you're not at any point giving it permissions to view what's going on outside of itself. If MMO Champion could see my other open tabs & send that info back to Google, then yeah, I'd not use it - But it can't.

[Nnyco]

if you think everything online doesnt sell your data then you know absolutely nothing about how the modern world works lol tf did you think was happening when using twitch client?

And what makes you think i am not aware of that or that i used twitch before overwolf? It is just quite hillarious to me that they so blatantly state it yet in a manner that is ment to fool you.

[Baneto]

And it is. You are mistaking something being free with users demanding attitude like the guy above me, that also don't want to see adds that pays for hosting of addons, categorization, tools development. [B]Adds is essentially what makes all those conveniences free

And that is fine, they can do that with their platform, as long as there can be alternatives for people.

using WoWUp and donating to WoWUp isnt helping devs at all. imho they should just block WoWUp from having access or force WoWUp to show ads that curseforge generates.

Nobody talked about donating to WowUp specifically, I have mentioned donating but to addon-developers themselves through the means of direct compensation or a monthly donation. And the demand shows other people want alternatives to big actors like Twitch-app or Overwolf, or we wouldnt have things like Minion WowUp CurseBreaker, Ajour etc.

No. Blizzard does not say that a website restrict access to download addons. Addons themselves can not be charged for. Blizzard is perfectly fine with premium benefits being offered to obtain addons. This isn't a new thing. CurseForge has been monetizing hosting addons for at least a decade now.

I am sorry I dont understand the first sentence of your post, but yeah there are addons like Zygor that are free but take a subscription to fully use.

Nobody charges you for addons on CF - neither authors nor CF itself - you can go to site and download them without paying a single cent. What more CF ALSO provides lots of infrastructure for devs for free. But you do understand that it costs money to THEM and they do need to cover costs somehow? So they use ads and provide completely optional "pay forward" option for disabling them. This is exactly how authors use paypal and Patreon - you DON'T have to pay, but you can chose to.

Thats a valid view, but people should be able to choose what app they want to use without a big company coming for monopoly.

[oplawlz]

You do realize that most addons already have been updated for Shadowlands with the arrival of pre-patch right?

You do realize that many people quit during BFA and aren't coming back until SL launches, right?

[rhorle]

I am sorry I dont understand the first sentence of your post, but yeah there are addons like Zygor that are free but take a subscription to fully use.

It seems I was missing "can't" from my first sentence. The Addon policy from Blizzard still allows a website to restrict downloads to the websites own app. They can't charge a fee to download the addons but can still require you to sign up for an account, or something, if they wanted to. They can also offer subscriptions to reduce ads, support the site, or whatever.

Things like Zygor, or Auction house ones that charge for extra database info, are clearly against the rules or at the very least on the line. I don't think Blizzard has really gone against anyone like that but it doesn't mean the rules allow it. It could just be that Blizzard is waiting for it to reach a certain point for litigation to be worthwhile. I know some places wait for a person to steal a certain dollar amount before catching them because the higher amount has a higher penalty.

Thats a valid view, but people should be able to choose what app they want to use without a big company coming for monopoly.

It isn't a monopoly though. There are other places to get addons. The problem is they are just not that popular. Wowinterface used to just as popular as curse but then fell behind. I think around the time curse first came out with their app. This also isn't a "big company coming for a monopoly" because Amazon is the previous owner. Just because they sell to a new owner doesn't suddenly make it a monopoly. Just because they want to restrict what third party software can access their site doesn't make it a monopoly.

WoWUP, Cursebreaker, or any other app can easily start their own hosting and compete with Overwolf/Curseforge. If enough people do see Overwolf as scummy, bad, or whatever else then it should be easy for them to gain market share right?

[Baneto]

snip

I really hope the up and coming developers of WowUp and the others do get their own hosting then, I'd back them up over a big corporation flexing with their big capital to try take the market for themselves.

[rhorle]

I really hope the up and coming developers of WowUp and the others do get their own hosting then, I'd back them up over a big corporation flexing with their big capital to try take the market for themselves.

It isn't a big company flexing anything to take the market. Curse, which is now split up and sold to two different companies, already had the market. It is why they eventually got bought by Twitch (Amazon). Overwolf is just the latest to own the stuff and has every right to want to protect its investment and property. Could being over zealous hurt the product? Sure.

[Baneto]

It isn't a big company flexing anything to take the market. Curse, which is now split up and sold to two different companies, already had the market. It is why they eventually got bought by Twitch (Amazon). Overwolf is just the latest to own the stuff and has every right to want to protect its investment and property. Could being over zealous hurt the product? Sure.

Not trying to make a point of it but Overwolf are worth 16 million dollars
as compared to the competitors consisting of mostly independent developers. Im not going to judge anyone for what addon manager they want to use, but Im obviously not going to use Overwolf in any shape or form.

[chiddie]

I've decided to try WowUp and it's pretty good so far.

Quite simple, lightweight (just an .exe file) and does the same job as the twitch app without the hassle.

I’m using WoWUp too but if overwolf breaks the API that allows other addons managers to fetch data from cursegaming, it will become near to useless, unless addons devs start to use other repositories also.

[rrayy]

But muh dataz...

Yeah, you have a point, but then your aforementioned platforms have a bit more accountability than some random smallish noname company with niche customer base and questionable business ethics to begin with.

Even besides that who knows what they harvest and store there, in what form and how secure is that data.

Those companies haven't been held accountable at all. IN fact, many of those compaines(I look at you Microsoft) have had questionable business ethics to begin with. They are just as slimy as you accuse Overwolf of being, yet you don't show any outrage towards any of them. It's kind of hypocritical.

- - - Updated - - -

It isn't a big company flexing anything to take the market. Curse, which is now split up and sold to two different companies, already had the market. It is why they eventually got bought by Twitch (Amazon). Overwolf is just the latest to own the stuff and has every right to want to protect its investment and property. Could being over zealous hurt the product? Sure.

Yeah. It's ironic he says a big corporation flexing when it is a much smaller company who bought it from the big corporation who flexes.

- - - Updated - - -

You do realize that many people quit during BFA and aren't coming back until SL launches, right?

You do realize you will still be able to download the addons and that the addon makers have already updated their addons for Shadowlands,right? They are only shutting only the abiilty to upload addons.

- - - Updated - - -

And what makes you think i am not aware of that or that i used twitch before overwolf? It is just quite hillarious to me that they so blatantly state it yet in a manner that is ment to fool you.

Well then, every site you have ever gone to has sold your data. It really doesn't matter if you don't use Overwolf becuse your data has already been sold many times over. You aren't preventing that from happening at all by not using it.