Page 21 of 29 FirstFirst ...
11
19
20
21
22
23
... LastLast
  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Your internal headcanon is not objective.

    I'm still surprised to see how upset some folks are and how much energy they're spending over what amounts to what, 15 seconds of cutscenes in a like 40 hour game that's part of a three party trilogy?
    I just want to clarify if this includes me, I am not upset in the slightest, and don't want anything removed (unless it was the ending to 3, and replaced with a good ending), only that I feel a little embarrassed that they felt the fan base would really like certain shots, that they think I am someone who would really be into it. I mean, I like the female form, but if I want to ogle, I tend not to look for it in games. It is very hentai adjacent in my opinion. Not judging, but I am just not into that sort of thing.

    It isn't so much the model, but yea, some of the camera angles, I think "cmon bioware, what are you trying to say about me?!", and also I felt they jarred a little with what is a very serious game, and by that I mean it is a fairly grown up saga, and of course that can include some sexualised content, but that some of the angles are a bit on the nose, the romance options etc fit perfectly, you spend hours with the characters, develop a relationship and build to it, some of these shots however were borderline gratuitous imo, not that this means I think it should be removed or is "bad" (e.g. the devs are bad people for doing it), more that the gratuity didn't fit with the tone.

    And I get this is very subjective, and is more a comment on me. And how I perceive what certain content in games might say about views developers may have about gamers. I concede I could be in a minority and most are right into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    There is no intelligence operation of the sort you're insinuating going on targeted at Shepard within the writing of ME2. They're entirely upfront about who they are, who they work for, and what they want from him, straight from the get-go.

    They definitely designed her visually for sex appeal, but her actual character narratively is not a femme fatale.
    She was an intelligence operative dude. Jacob was her heavy. She is our contact to the Illusive man. Thats all told in game. She is also seen as standoffish and a bitch by many of the crew who repeatedly focus on her looks. Hell even Liara mentions her looks in the Shadow broker dlc. Just because you couldn't get past her looks like most of the crew doesn't mean the info isn't there. Commander Sheppard learns she isn't just some cold standoffish sexy nazi bitch if you actually have conversations with her. You learn she joined Cerberus to protect her sister and herself from her father. And that she regrets wanting to mind control you.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I'd be happy with the assets and gameplay of SW:tOR being used to update KotOR
    You know then people will complain about how outdated the game looks right.
    Na a new version of KOTOR needs to be rebuild from scratch and given the same treatment as FF7 got and deserves as such.

  4. #404
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    8,530
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    She was an intelligence operative dude. Jacob was her heavy. She is our contact to the Illusive man. Thats all told in game. She is also seen as standoffish and a bitch by many of the crew who repeatedly focus on her looks. Hell even Liara mentions her looks in the Shadow broker dlc. Just because you couldn't get past her looks like most of the crew doesn't mean the info isn't there. Commander Sheppard learns she isn't just some cold standoffish sexy nazi bitch if you actually have conversations with her. You learn she joined Cerberus to protect her sister and herself from her father. And that she regrets wanting to mind control you.
    This post tells me you don't quite understand what a femme fatale is as a narrative archetype. It's not just an interchangeable synonym for "intelligence operative seen as a standoffish bitch by others that struggles with self esteem".

    Morinth is the closest the game ever gets to that, not Miranda.
    Last edited by zealo; 2021-02-11 at 12:32 PM.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    This post tells me you don't quite understand what a femme fatale is as a narrative archetype. It's not just an interchangeable synonym for "intelligence operative seen as a standoffish bitch by others that struggles with self esteem".

    Morinth is the closest the game ever gets to that, not Miranda.
    Morinth isn't attractive and is more like a serial killer. A chicks vagina instant killing you doesn't make them a femme fatale. In fact if you check the wiki Morinth was more based on a vampire while Miranda was specifically designed with a femme fatale look in mind.

    Miranda literally works for the shadiest human organization in the universe and was designed to be perfect. Just because she sides with us in the end and not Cerberus doesn't make her a non femme fatale.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Morinth isn't attractive
    [citation needed]

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Morinth isn't attractive and is more like a serial killer. A chicks vagina instant killing you doesn't make them a femme fatale. In fact if you check the wiki Morinth was more based on a vampire while Miranda was specifically designed with a femme fatale look in mind.

    Miranda literally works for the shadiest human organization in the universe and was designed to be perfect. Just because she sides with us in the end and not Cerberus doesn't make her a non femme fatale.
    She's a serial killer... that literally operatives by seducing people and killing them by sex. She's meant to be alluring and attractive, it's her entire shtick. Miranda doesn't even try to seduce anyone or use her looks or charm to advance her cause or Cerberus's, even during her loyalty mission her biotics are given more focus. Her visual design evokes a femme fatale (it tries too hard at that even, methinks), her actual character really isn't that at all.

    I also find her going into vaccuum with no more protection than a mask really, really stupid, but she's hardly the only character to whom it happens. Instead of camera angles I'd really like the Legendary Edition to focus on giving every party proper hardsuits when appropriate, it's better in ME3 but in ME2 it's so ridiculous to see the likes of Jack, Miranda or Thane strut around in space with outfits better designed for bars or nightclubs. But hey they got masks so it's OK.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    She's a serial killer... that literally operatives by seducing people and killing them by sex. She's meant to be alluring and attractive, it's her entire shtick. Miranda doesn't even try to seduce anyone or use her looks or charm to advance her cause or Cerberus's, even during her loyalty mission her biotics are given more focus. Her visual design evokes a femme fatale (it tries too hard at that even, methinks), her actual character really isn't that at all.

    I also find her going into vaccuum with no more protection than a mask really, really stupid, but she's hardly the only character to whom it happens. Instead of camera angles I'd really like the Legendary Edition to focus on giving every party proper hardsuits when appropriate, it's better in ME3 but in ME2 it's so ridiculous to see the likes of Jack, Miranda or Thane strut around in space with outfits better designed for bars or nightclubs. But hey they got masks so it's OK.
    Miranda doesn't use her looks because she's a squadmate and with us all the time. And kinda hard to go seducing when the games all about shooting shit. Her previous job was explained as the intelligence handler for Jacob and being put in charge of reviving us. We know she isn't a stealth ninja but we do know she is beautiful so what do you think she would use to gather intel? Everyone tells us how beautiful Miranda is when nobody can even tell that Morinth isn't her mom. She doesn't even use her looks to seduce Shepard she plays to their ego by telling them they have this op willpower that will make em immune to her death vag.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Morinth isn't attractive and is more like a serial killer. A chicks vagina instant killing you doesn't make them a femme fatale. In fact if you check the wiki Morinth was more based on a vampire while Miranda was specifically designed with a femme fatale look in mind.

    Miranda literally works for the shadiest human organization in the universe and was designed to be perfect. Just because she sides with us in the end and not Cerberus doesn't make her a non femme fatale.
    Morinth uses sex and her sexual attraction to achieve her goals (melding), including you as a player. That is kind of the definition of a femme fatale.

    Miranda on the other hand is up-front with her goals, even at the start, and doesn't use her sexual attraction to do anything that we can see in the game - sure, it may be implied that she uses her sexual attraction (outside the game) but it's never really shown and I think this is why some people have different interpretations of Miranda as a character. I think she's more defined by her icy demeanour, self-doubt and break away from Cerberus - not very femme fatale-ish traits.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    I just want to clarify if this includes me, I am not upset in the slightest, and don't want anything removed (unless it was the ending to 3, and replaced with a good ending), only that I feel a little embarrassed that they felt the fan base would really like certain shots, that they think I am someone who would really be into it. I mean, I like the female form, but if I want to ogle, I tend not to look for it in games. It is very hentai adjacent in my opinion. Not judging, but I am just not into that sort of thing.

    It isn't so much the model, but yea, some of the camera angles, I think "cmon bioware, what are you trying to say about me?!", and also I felt they jarred a little with what is a very serious game, and by that I mean it is a fairly grown up saga, and of course that can include some sexualised content, but that some of the angles are a bit on the nose, the romance options etc fit perfectly, you spend hours with the characters, develop a relationship and build to it, some of these shots however were borderline gratuitous imo, not that this means I think it should be removed or is "bad" (e.g. the devs are bad people for doing it), more that the gratuity didn't fit with the tone.

    And I get this is very subjective, and is more a comment on me. And how I perceive what certain content in games might say about views developers may have about gamers. I concede I could be in a minority and most are right into it.
    The ending of 3 was disappointing because it ended up "choice the power ranger colour you like'' but honestly, for it's time, it was a OK ending.
    Ideally Bioware should have made 20 or so different endings that you could only achieve based on various decisions you made in all 3 games. However in all honestly something like that would have been unthinkable for developers at that time and even in today's environment it would have been kind of a hard sell.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    The ending of 3 was disappointing because it ended up "choice the power ranger colour you like'' but honestly, for it's time, it was a OK ending.
    Ideally Bioware should have made 20 or so different endings that you could only achieve based on various decisions you made in all 3 games. However in all honestly something like that would have been unthinkable for developers at that time and even in today's environment it would have been kind of a hard sell.
    Heavy Rain (PS3) managed it. Shadow of Memories (PS2) managed it, though it was only 5 or 6 endings, but to be honest that was all ME3 needed. Granted these were just individual games, but the principle is the same, ultimately it is just setting some booleans, creating the content for the endings and then deciding which to pick based on the boolean configuration (not a logically or computationally difficult task). Technically they absolutely could have implemented it (granted storage might have been an issue, though not insurmountable), timewise is another matter, I don't know if the scheduling would have allowed for it. Sorry if I misread your post, I got the impression you were suggesting that for the time, technically it might have been too challenging.

    I thought it was bad because I felt, and I think most fans did as well, that we would have several very different endings, impacted on by the choices we made throughout the trilogy, and like many I felt somewhat misled, but also just let down, as great as 3 was, the ending soured it a little and for me prevented it from being something truly magical, something seminal, as opposed to just great. They were so close to something I don't think had been done before, or ever for that matter.

    However I don't want to go back over old ground with that, what is done is done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    Heavy Rain (PS3) managed it. Shadow of Memories (PS2) managed it, though it was only 5 or 6 endings, but to be honest that was all ME3 needed. Granted these were just individual games, but the principle is the same, ultimately it is just setting some booleans, creating the content for the endings and then deciding which to pick based on the boolean configuration (not a logically or computationally difficult task). Technically they absolutely could have implemented it (granted storage might have been an issue, though not insurmountable), timewise is another matter, I don't know if the scheduling would have allowed for it. Sorry if I misread your post, I got the impression you were suggesting that for the time, technically it might have been too challenging.

    I thought it was bad because I felt, and I think most fans did as well, that we would have several very different endings, impacted on by the choices we made throughout the trilogy, and like many I felt somewhat misled, but also just let down, as great as 3 was, the ending soured it a little and for me prevented it from being something truly magical, something seminal, as opposed to just great. They were so close to something I don't think had been done before, or ever for that matter.

    However I don't want to go back over old ground with that, what is done is done.
    I mean ME2 could give you different endings based on how you handled the game until the suicide mission. ME3 did attempt to do it to a point but more with the individual fates of characters you teamed up with and not as much as the fate of the galaxy.

    Honestly though I just think using all decisions of all 3 games is kind of to ambitions for most developers, let alone for Bioware back in 2012. We haven't gotten any RPG close to what Bioware achieved with ME, we have allot of open world RPG's with some multiply endings but nothing akin to what Bioware did with the ME2 and 3(1 was a bit more generic).

    Maybe if Bioware just removed the options at the end and just picked the ending based on a point system (which they used anyway) the overal ending would have felt better, still less grand that what we hoped for.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    The ending of 3 was disappointing because it ended up "choice the power ranger colour you like'' but honestly, for it's time, it was a OK ending.
    Ideally Bioware should have made 20 or so different endings that you could only achieve based on various decisions you made in all 3 games. However in all honestly something like that would have been unthinkable for developers at that time and even in today's environment it would have been kind of a hard sell.
    They weren't hard differences but each of the choices had different imagery associated with it depending on how well you did (basically how high your Readiness score or whatever was called,) this was made a lot more obvious in the extended ending and you also got to see the results of how you did with the Krogan and Geth/Tarians. Probably not exactly what you wanted but it was fun watching videos on YouTube and seeing that people got some different things.

    Best difference was the Control endings, a Shepard with a high Renegade score would read a very similar script but in a much more sinister way to give a very different impression as to what the future of the galaxy would be like.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    I mean ME2 could give you different endings based on how you handled the game until the suicide mission. ME3 did attempt to do it to a point but more with the individual fates of characters you teamed up with and not as much as the fate of the galaxy.

    Honestly though I just think using all decisions of all 3 games is kind of to ambitions for most developers, let alone for Bioware back in 2012. We haven't gotten any RPG close to what Bioware achieved with ME, we have allot of open world RPG's with some multiply endings but nothing akin to what Bioware did with the ME2 and 3(1 was a bit more generic).

    Maybe if Bioware just removed the options at the end and just picked the ending based on a point system (which they used anyway) the overal ending would have felt better, still less grand that what we hoped for.
    The problem with a points system for the 3 major choices is it would have said one is objectively better than the others.
    Last edited by Dhrizzle; 2021-02-12 at 04:55 PM.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Its weird people wanna replay them when youre just gonna get the same ending no matter what you do
    Have you never read a book a second time? A movie? A comic book? Same thing, no? Some people genuinely enjoy the story, the gameplay, or both.

  15. #415
    Weeb Queen Video Games's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Portland (send help)
    Posts
    14,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRainman View Post
    Have you never read a book a second time? A movie? A comic book? Same thing, no? Some people genuinely enjoy the story, the gameplay, or both.
    All the time. My problem, like most people, is nothing you do matters because of the ending. If they had dozens of endings like theyd promised, I'd totally replay them again

  16. #416
    i never playeed any mass effect game, so i will buy it and i dont care about the a** angle fix devs put in the game for cinematic (something somes people was crying for the legendary edition lol) *cough* anyway, mods will quicklyu fix it for sure !

    anyway, like i said i will buy it, discovering the game, crying about me3 ending too ? in hd

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Yeah, it's clear that our butts opinions are divided on this.
    mods will fix that, so we dont care :O

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Morinth uses sex and her sexual attraction to achieve her goals (melding), including you as a player. That is kind of the definition of a femme fatale.

    Miranda on the other hand is up-front with her goals, even at the start, and doesn't use her sexual attraction to do anything that we can see in the game - sure, it may be implied that she uses her sexual attraction (outside the game) but it's never really shown and I think this is why some people have different interpretations of Miranda as a character. I think she's more defined by her icy demeanour, self-doubt and break away from Cerberus - not very femme fatale-ish traits.
    Except she doesn't if I am remembering right: She creates a cult with her Biotic powers, offers Shepard her loyalty and powers, then finally she uses her cunning to trick Shepard into having sex with her by playing to renegade Shepard's ego. She gets sex from two of those scenarios but not one of them is because she used her sex appeal.

  18. #418
    Meh. I'm now surprised that remake had been SJWed ASAP. Fucking 21st absurd century of destroying everything good our grandfathers fought and died upon...
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Meh. I'm now surprised that remake had been SJWed ASAP. Fucking 21st absurd century of destroying everything good our grandfathers fought and died upon...
    Holy shit, I didn't realise Gamergaters were old enough to have grandkids nowadays.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Except she doesn't if I am remembering right: She creates a cult with her Biotic powers, offers Shepard her loyalty and powers, then finally she uses her cunning to trick Shepard into having sex with her by playing to renegade Shepard's ego. She gets sex from two of those scenarios but not one of them is because she used her sex appeal.
    Reading on the Mass Effect wiki it says she once had corrupted an entire village to worship her, if that is what you mean? That fits the femme fatale stereotype as well. If you read the wikipedia link for what a femme fatale is I think you'll find that Morinth is more or less a perfect fit for that stereotype.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •