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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    oof.

    ok, lets go step by step.

    so people turning on their abusers, justifies fucking up everyone?
    No, repeating cycles of abuse and destruction justify a change of paradigm to break the cycle.

    war readiness score does NOT imply specific choices. and at launch especialy but also post extended cut, you could have a higher score just by playing with an app or in multiplayer then by making diplomatic choices. you coulld litteraly have a shitshow of a game state with quarians or geth dead, Korgan still sick of Genophage with both Eve and Wrex dead, most of your allies/teammates dead, etc etc etc. and STILl be offered synthesis.
    Really? I haven't looked in to the scoring but I thought you couldn't be completely incompetent and still get the best ending.

    paragon Shepard who facilitated peace between quarians and geth would try to keep both quarians and geth and EDI alive and is explicitly told that destroy will... destroy them. synthesis is a violation, so control is the only choice for a Shepard trying to find a life preserving compromise.
    Synthesis isn't a violation, or at least less of a violation than you enslaving the Reapers and murdering them all.

    remapped?
    No mapped, as in the field maps your DNA

    with all that circuitry added?
    Circuitry added?

    you are claiming that people are having connection and empathy for each other now, how is this NOT so sort of bodily change happening?
    Nope, the same way bodily changes weren't made by the Prothean Beacon dumping information into Shepard, or when he did that mind link thing with Liara.

    bodily changes WERE made. ending makes it extremely ABUNDANTLY clear. THAT. is a violation.
    No they weren't, no it doesn't, so no it isn't. (Feel free to randomly capitalise some words and add erratic full-stops if it makes it easier for you to understand.)

    empathy doesn't just happen at a drop of a hat either, it develops.
    Yes it develops through communication and understanding, which is what Synthesis greatly enhances.

    you are trying to justify bodily violation as "its not the same" but how is this not the same? because bioware said so? what they are showing us tells a different story.
    No I'm saying bodily violation isn't on the cards and that enslavement isn't the same as opening new ways of communication.

    Geth having conflict is BEFORE synthesis. they were having a conflict because they were exercising free will. the implication with synthesis is that there is no conflict anymore. ergo - free will is questionable.
    The implication of all the "good" (high scoring) endings is that there is no conflict any more, though only Control is the one that blatantly removes free-will (Reapers are kept enslaved just with a new master and, paragon or renegade, other races will avoid conflict to avoid the attentions of the Reaper Shepherds.) That doesn't mean no conflict will arise in the future.

    Synthesis is sold as equalising synthetics and organics by giving the advantages or desirable qualities of one to the other. It's established with Legion early on that a major upside to the syntheticsis the ability to form a collective to fully share information and perspectives with each other. The Geth civil war shows that even with collectives major disagreements can arise that lead to conflict, therefore even with Synthesis the entire galaxy will not necessarily stay at peace forever. That said even if Synthesis did lead to a complete utopia with no conflict it doesn't mean the removal of free will, just that the inhabitants of the galaxy choose to exercise their free will in non-violent ways.

    Illusive man was NOT synthetic. he was half way to becoming a fully indocrinated husk. he started out as human, and he has gotten the way we see him at the end via experiments with reaper tech. that's why I compared him to Red Skull. if that's what you are calling advantages of synthetics? no thank you.
    The way he was constantly, almost pathologically talking about humanity put me in mind of zeroth-law robots from Asimov books who have taken their programmed First Law - "a robot may not harm a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm" and, by being extremely sophisticated and intelligent, extrapolated a further law that supersedes the First, the so-called "Zeroth Law - a robot may not harm humanity or, through inaction, allow [humanity] to come to harm." The Illusive Man fits the profile for a zeroth law robot so well (and is known as the Illusive Man, i.e. someone giving the illusion of being a man) and pretty much all of the ME series was made of tropes and themes lifted from other sci-fi and space opera so I expected them to reveal something.

    Rachni could still be dead - you do get a choice to kill them, rachni survival is NOT a given and if you do kill them in a first game, they are a slave race in a third. We start out fighting geth and we STILl fight geth because the faction we fight is the reaper allies. we just find out that there are other Geth out there who would rather not drink the reaper juice. Reaper allies though? we STILl fight them in all 3 games.
    I'm just saying my Shepard was often sent on genocidal missions and chose not to exterminate races when he learned more information, so for example he wouldn't wholesale exterminate the Reapers after learning they were slaves and there was an option to free them.

    we weren't supposed to do anything bad to quarrians other then mistrust them, and guard our valuables around them, so to speak. we just learn that there is more to them than being galactic scavengers.
    My mistake I meant the Krogan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Destroy is the painful but closest to the original goal solution. Despite that, it does still contradict some of the ideas set up throughout the trilogy.
    Control is the solution that reeks heavily of indoctrination and has creepy undertones, feeling like it almost implies Shepard-AI will inevitably go rogue eventually.
    Synthesis is the option that sounds fluffy and utopian if you look at it in the most shallow terms but becomes possibly the most horrifying if you really think about it.
    Refusal is the most principled option. But sadly, it's also the one that nullifies all of your direct efforts.
    I think Control is the one that's easiest to head-canon because what happens is all down to what you think your Shepard is like, though I did very much enjoy the differences in narration between Paragon and Renegade Shepards in the extended endings.

    Sadly, yes. It's simple, straightforward and has fewer strings attached. I can see why people would not take it, though. It's not like I enjoy the loss of the Geth myself. Not only does it mean they are wiped out just after gaining some sense of sapience and self, but it also means that their efforts to help the Quarians regain the homeworld die out.
    That and the mass genocide of beings representing many of the victims of previous cycles.

    But it has so many strings attached when you really think about it that it's hard to consider.

    What does this new form of life even mean? Can it be hacked? Does it require maintenance? What does it eat? Does levo/dextro still mean anything? Do husks really have a sense of self-awareness, or worse yet, do they retain memory of who they once were? Is it not freaky that you pick the option the Reaper boss-AI was the most gleeful about and tried to push so hard and essentially 'placates' the group that were trying to wipe you out?

    Is there going to be panic about the fact that all former organics now have glowing green eyes and circuitry that they never opted for, just because what they considered the enemy of all life told Shepard "This is the ideal solution and the final step of evolution"?

    There are so many questions to be asked that I think Bioware themselves didn't even think about. They touch on it. After all, somebody had to animate the husk's reaction to Synthesis, wherein it seems to reflect for a moment, but I'm not sure the real ramifications were properly considered.
    There's a lot of maybes which again makes it interesting speculate on but the potential challenges (all of which I touched upon) but I generally looked for the positives based on books I've read that the ME writers had also clearly read. Also I never took green eyes or circuitry to be literal more symbolic of what was happening, the circuitry especially as the way it was shown would be functionally useless. At any rate the challenges of Synthesis seem to pale in comparison to setting up myself as ultimate space dictator (even as a Paragon I had used extreme violence and mass death on many occasions) or multiple genocides.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I mean, even at the start of Mass Effect 3, the straightforward goal is to destroy the Reapers. As such, I don't feel too conflicted about doing just that, even if it means the Geth perish. And I do like Legion. EDI, eh.. so-so. But I get that is a personal thing. This was more something aimed at the judgmental Synthesis players who somehow didn't notice how freaky it is to turn the entire galaxy into some hybrid being, ally with the reapers, beings made of harvested civilization goo and have their ground forces (Husks, Banshees, Brutes, Cannibals) apparently regain a semblance of self-awareness.

    And not quite what you said, but I think there were plans to turn The Illusive Man at the Citadel into a big Reaperized hulk. I saw concept art for it.
    Husks aren't shown seemingly gaining some semblance of self-awareness in the original synthesis ending. The Reapers turn green then leave. I always took at as like a whitelisting of everyone and everything and the reapers just leaving because all advanced organic civilizations are now "dead" and so go back to wait for new organic civilizations to activate the relay network(which can never happen now).

    Also you ally with tons of your former enemies (turians, krogan, etc)

  3. #503
    so a summory is, you headcanonrd away any and all implications to make that ending more palatable. that and apparently destroying attackers that are murdering and enlaving THE GALAXY is worse the imposing a dna rewrite on the galaxy being attacked. got it.

    also here is a transcript of all the dialogue options.

    https://www.alternatewars.com/Games/...Transcript.htm

    pay particular attention to

    By ones who recognized that conflict would always arise between synthetics and organics.

    The result is conflict, destruction, chaos.

    It is inevitable

    Shepard: Who designed it?

    You would not know them, and there is not enough time to explain.
    We first noted the concept for this device several cycles ago
    The Crucible changed me, created new... possibilities. But I can’t make them happen (as in, crucible is not reaper device, but rather evolution of a device created by multiple cycles. the only solutions reapers ever had was harvest)

    Synthesis.

    Shepard: And that is?

    Add your energy to the Crucible's.

    The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new...DNA.

    Shepard (HOW?): Explain how my energy can be added to the Crucible.

    Your organic energy, the essence of who and what you are, will be broken down and then dispersed.

    (Cutscene shows a brilliant green blast)

    Shepard: To do what exactly?

    The energy of the Crucible, released in this way will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy.
    ( pretty clear rewriting of dna here)

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    so a summory is, you headcanonrd away any and all implications to make that ending more palatable. that and apparently destroying attackers that are murdering and enlaving THE GALAXY is worse the imposing a dna rewrite on the galaxy being attacked. got it.

    also here is a transcript of all the dialogue options.

    https://www.alternatewars.com/Games/...Transcript.htm

    pay particular attention to
    We in real life are altered all the time by shit. Your DNA isn't the same as your 500x great ancestor and guess what you didn't have a choice in it. Also in game many species were altered and/or uplifted by a different species hell the Protheans alone messed around with like every current space faring species except for the ones that our generation messed with.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    We in real life are altered all the time by shit. Your DNA isn't the same as your 500x great ancestor and guess what you didn't have a choice in it. Also in game many species were altered and/or uplifted by a different species hell the Protheans alone messed around with like every current space faring species except for the ones that our generation messed with.
    and that makes it ok somehow? i love how the same game that poses an ethical question on wether what salarians did to Krogan was justified... is the game that doesn't see the same ethical issue with even bigger violation of EVERYONE.

    this is rewriting that changes how we think, how we function. in its purest form it IS brain washing and I will personaly refuse to have any part of it. the greater good... isn't.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    and that makes it ok somehow? i love how the same game that poses an ethical question on wether what salarians did to Krogan was justified... is the game that doesn't see the same ethical issue with even bigger violation of EVERYONE.

    this is rewriting that changes how we think, how we function. in its purest form it IS brain washing and I will personaly refuse to have any part of it. the greater good... isn't.
    There are no absolute morals. Is it ok to save a guys life who wants to die? Is it ok to save a species that was going to be wiped out naturally? Drell would no longer exist had the Hannar not kidnapped a bunch of them and now they are loyal to the Hannar and doing shit in the universe altering the natural flow of existence. But you could also argue that some of them being saved by the Hannar was the natural state of the universe as once you get to a certain point you need a certain amount of empathy for others otherwise you couldn't work together enough to achieve spaceflight and shit and so naturally a species would save some of the Drell. Given that Destroy ending will just repeat the cycle again and the reapers still exist as a threat in the becoming a god ending synthesis is the natural endpoint of the mass effect universe and so saves trillions upon trillions of lives.

    For the extended edition maybe. The original has none of that nonsense. And given people got circuitry shit glowing on their armor as well from the explosion Idk how much of that shit was just slapped together just to get something extra. Watch the original ending it isn't creepy at all the Reapers leave because there are no more space faring organics and Joker gets illusive man eyes.

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    There are no absolute morals. Is it ok to save a guys life who wants to die? Is it ok to save a species that was going to be wiped out naturally? Drell would no longer exist had the Hannar not kidnapped a bunch of them and now they are loyal to the Hannar and doing shit in the universe altering the natural flow of existence. But you could also argue that some of them being saved by the Hannar was the natural state of the universe as once you get to a certain point you need a certain amount of empathy for others otherwise you couldn't work together enough to achieve spaceflight and shit and so naturally a species would save some of the Drell. Given that Destroy ending will just repeat the cycle again and the reapers still exist as a threat in the becoming a god ending synthesis is the natural endpoint of the mass effect universe and so saves trillions upon trillions of lives.

    For the extended edition maybe. The original has none of that nonsense. And given people got circuitry shit glowing on their armor as well from the explosion Idk how much of that shit was just slapped together just to get something extra. Watch the original ending it isn't creepy at all the Reapers leave because there are no more space faring organics and Joker gets illusive man eyes.
    1. extended cut is canon and bioware basically explaining what they meant. but hey, lets look at original ending. https://youtu.be/cavrQcNvYfo?t=181 whadayaknow, look at them glowy leaves... not even plants are safe.

    do not compare drell agreeing to work with hannar to synthesis imposition. empathy icludes and requires respecting other peoples personhood instead of deciding that you know best whether they like it or not.

    destroy- destroys the reapers. they no longer exist. our learning from past mistakes does though.

  8. #508
    I am starting to think I am strange because when I played the mass effect games I enjoyed them and when they were over I just kind of accepted that is how it ended. Don't get me wrong by any means it could have been better. Any story can be better. Even the best stories we have ever told can be improved. Hell that is what most our stories are anyway. Just improved versions of older stories with the variables (who and where) changed but the actions are pretty much the same or similar. What matter most to me was the path I took to get their though. Never would have made it to the end if that wasn't outstanding.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I think Control is the one that's easiest to head-canon because what happens is all down to what you think your Shepard is like, though I did very much enjoy the differences in narration between Paragon and Renegade Shepards in the extended endings.
    For sure. I just meant that it very much seems like Bioware was trying to sell the idea that this was ominous. The Reaper voice, the music. It sounds so Terminator.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    That and the mass genocide of beings representing many of the victims of previous cycles.
    You mean the Reapers, in the sense that they are the last genetic remains of previous cycles that were harvested? Sure, but even Shepard comments on it when you kill the Destroyer on Rannoch. He/she argues that the civilization the Reapers "preserve" in their familiar Lovecraftian forms died long ago, and now that that Destroyer has perished, the civilization that was harvested to make it can finally rest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    There's a lot of maybes which again makes it interesting speculate on but the potential challenges (all of which I touched upon) but I generally looked for the positives based on books I've read that the ME writers had also clearly read. Also I never took green eyes or circuitry to be literal more symbolic of what was happening, the circuitry especially as the way it was shown would be functionally useless. At any rate the challenges of Synthesis seem to pale in comparison to setting up myself as ultimate space dictator (even as a Paragon I had used extreme violence and mass death on many occasions) or multiple genocides.
    Naturally. There's a lot of maybes, and while they play in factor in why I personally avoid Synthesis, I do think they are also the most interesting to think and talk about and offer more to discuss than any of the other endings.

    Also, yeah, the circuitry was a little silly.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    1. extended cut is canon and bioware basically explaining what they meant. but hey, lets look at original ending. https://youtu.be/cavrQcNvYfo?t=181 whadayaknow, look at them glowy leaves... not even plants are safe.

    do not compare drell agreeing to work with hannar to synthesis imposition. empathy icludes and requires respecting other peoples personhood instead of deciding that you know best whether they like it or not.

    destroy- destroys the reapers. they no longer exist. our learning from past mistakes does though.
    Destroy allows the cycle to begin anew. And the Relays are destroyed so you can't police species making synthetics. Also since your going on about choice why would it be ok for humans or anyone to stop people from making synthetics? Literally nothing is learned in the Destroy ending you even sacrifice your buddies just to "win". So not only do you not let people choose if they would rather have free wifi to surf pornhub in their head or be space Amish with conflict and death you genocide people in the destroy ending. Destroy leaves Shepard a hero for our generation but basically a villain who dooms future people to a repeat of the cycle and a new reaper race to eventually form.

    You also have to look at the authors intent. Bioware intended for Synthetic ending to be the good ending. Just because the extended version comes off super creepy doesn't mean its supposed to be the bad ending. There's a reason why half assing the game only lets you destroy and also destroy earth and the relays.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Husks aren't shown seemingly gaining some semblance of self-awareness in the original synthesis ending. The Reapers turn green then leave. I always took at as like a whitelisting of everyone and everything and the reapers just leaving because all advanced organic civilizations are now "dead" and so go back to wait for new organic civilizations to activate the relay network(which can never happen now).
    You mean pre-extended cut? Because while I agree that they didn't outright state that Huskified forces gained their self-awareness back, in the extended cut, when the Husk is caught by the beam, it does clearly look like it is in awe, contemplating, etc. As opposed to the disintegration of Destroy and the running away of Control that indicates Shepbot is calling them back.

    And if I recall it's shown in the extended cut that Reapers from that point on start helping the cycle, sharing information, tech, rebuilding, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Also you ally with tons of your former enemies (turians, krogan, etc)
    Yeah, but I don't think any of them really stack up to a race of ancient machines made of organic goop that has spent millions of years systematically cultivating and subsequently harvesting countless organic civilizations and didn't change their mind at any point until the magic green space beam hit, and would have resumed this effort if there was the slightest indication from the Catalyst that Synthesis wasn't the solution it had hoped for.

    At no point did they waver or regret. Synthesis simply placated them because it was the solution they were looking for.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    so a summory is, you headcanonrd away any and all implications to make that ending more palatable. that and apparently destroying attackers that are murdering and enlaving THE GALAXY is worse the imposing a dna rewrite on the galaxy being attacked. got it.

    also here is a transcript of all the dialogue options.

    https://www.alternatewars.com/Games/...Transcript.htm

    pay particular attention to
    It doesn't say you'd literally rewrite DNA though. When it says "the matrix of all organic life" it's probably using the definition "the cultural, social, or political environment in which something develops."

    Which is why your DNA rewrite argument falls on its face, and the Reapers are just as much victims of the cycle as you are (in fact they were in the same position as you in previous cycles) which is why I find it preferable to find a solution that doesn't involve genociding the remnants of countless civilisations.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Destroy allows the cycle to begin anew. And the Relays are destroyed so you can't police species making synthetics. Also since your going on about choice why would it be ok for humans or anyone to stop people from making synthetics? Literally nothing is learned in the Destroy ending you even sacrifice your buddies just to "win". So not only do you not let people choose if they would rather have free wifi to surf pornhub in their head or be space Amish with conflict and death you genocide people in the destroy ending. Destroy leaves Shepard a hero for our generation but basically a villain who dooms future people to a repeat of the cycle and a new reaper race to eventually form.

    You also have to look at the authors intent. Bioware intended for Synthetic ending to be the good ending. Just because the extended version comes off super creepy doesn't mean its supposed to be the bad ending. There's a reason why half assing the game only lets you destroy and also destroy earth and the relays.
    they are damaged, not destroyed. as per catalyst - they would be easy enough to repair, provided you pick destroy with high EMS. new reaper race is NOT an inevitability as we have have an opportunity to prove via alliance with Geth. THAT is what we learn, and geth dying in destroy ending is an asspull by bioware to make synthesis look more desirable. otherwise, even more people would pick destroy over anything else.

    I know what bioware intended. I have mentioned multiple times that I know that they intended it to be a good ending. doesn't mean they were aware of all the implications of it even while setting up said implications. they seem to have forgotten a LOT of the threads and stories they have set up in that ending.

    last but not least. the highest EMS? is not required for synthesis ending. the highest EMS is required for destroy plus. you know the one with piece of armor moving in a rubble and our squadmate/romantic partner somehow developing precognition and refusing to place the plaque with Shepard's name on memorial wall with extended cut. you talk about author intent? well riddle me the intent of making this particular choice and then doubling down on that.

    face it folks. it was bad writing all around and no amount of headcanon can justify it as anything other then bad writing. your headcanon for synthesis makes you hppy? more power to you. I disagree (obviously) that this is what synthesis is and how it works. after all, author's intent here is all important amirite, so you cannot just dismiss the extended cut here - as extended cut is literally bioware clarifying their intentions. you headcanon it to be less creepy? /shrug - I refuse to do so and work with other endings instead (or more specifically fan made ending that bypasses the whole starchild nonsense all together and doesn't turn geth into arbitrary sacrificial lambs - but to each their own)

    as written, synthesis is unintentional (apparently) body horror. and that's that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    It doesn't say you'd literally rewrite DNA though. When it says "the matrix of all organic life" it's probably using the definition "the cultural, social, or political environment in which something develops."

    Which is why your DNA rewrite argument falls on its face, and the Reapers are just as much victims of the cycle as you are (in fact they were in the same position as you in previous cycles) which is why I find it preferable to find a solution that doesn't involve genociding the remnants of countless civilisations.
    did you skip over the earlier part where he LITTERALY SAYS this????
    A new...DNA
    not to mention that even in original ending, we are shown ALL organic life, including non sentient life being PHYSICALY changed.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I am starting to think I am strange because when I played the mass effect games I enjoyed them and when they were over I just kind of accepted that is how it ended. Don't get me wrong by any means it could have been better. Any story can be better. Even the best stories we have ever told can be improved. Hell that is what most our stories are anyway. Just improved versions of older stories with the variables (who and where) changed but the actions are pretty much the same or similar. What matter most to me was the path I took to get their though. Never would have made it to the end if that wasn't outstanding.
    I'm not sure when you finished the trilogy, but for a lot of people, it was a big deal when they played it at the time. If they started in ME1, waited for ME2 and finally the conclusion. For somebody jumping in years later and finishing it all in one go, it's a bit of a different story, arguably. Not saying that is your situation, but if it is, it does affect things.

    An example is the fact that while it's hardly a point of discussion now, the intended ending was indeed altered from all our best accounts. The Reapers' mission wasn't always to harvest organics to keep them from developing synthetics that would wipe them out. It used to be about dark energy and how it affected the galaxy and the universe as a whole. There were a few hints strewn about like the star Haestrom orbited around.

    The thing with Mass Effect is that if you spend a moment thinking things over, there are plot holes, inconsistencies, 180s and all such things present that a casual player might brush over. It basically depends on your level of investment in the story.

    All that aside, it's not something I can entirely blame Bioware for. Writing staff was all over the place to the best of my knowledge. At the end of the day, I still enjoyed the trilogy and think the Mass Effect universe is a great one. Sadly, I don't have a lot of hope for future installments, though.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    did you skip over the earlier part where he LITTERALY SAYS this????
    You mean the bit where he pauses to show he is being metaphorical, because DNA isn't a framework and if he is taken literally it means actually taking all living beings and making them into one gigantic strand of DNA...

    not to mention that even in original ending, we are shown ALL organic life, including non sentient life being PHYSICALY changed.
    You mean the bit where plants have circuit boards zoomed in about a thousand times projected on to them in glowy energy, you think that was literal?! Clumsy maybe but if you think we were meant to literally believe an entire tree had a portion of PCB incorporated into it...I just don't know what to say.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    You mean the bit where he pauses to show he is being metaphorical, because DNA isn't a framework and if he is taken literally it means actually taking all living beings and making them into one gigantic strand of DNA...



    You mean the bit where plants have circuit boards zoomed in about a thousand times projected on to them in glowy energy, you think that was literal?! Clumsy maybe but if you think we were meant to literally believe an entire tree had a portion of PCB incorporated into it...I just don't know what to say.
    oh, its metaphorical now? even though developers said that its all literal (which is what makes it unintentional bodyhorror in a first place) and why zoom in in a first place, to then later show both Joker AND Edi sharing that same circuitry and not a single strand of dna, but rather everyone having homogenous DNA now - while retaining more or less differing phenotype, and we sneer at indoctrination theory that hinges and this shit being metaphorical.

    why is it so difficult to accept that in their pursuit of rule of cool, bioware simply didn't consider what they are implying there? and do tell me in what metaphorical way did they alter the matrix of... culture, etc without brainwashing new paradigm into everyone's skulls? is the connection between species literal or metaphorical too and what does that mean to our eating habits?

    why is it so difficult to accept that what you have here is simply another version of your personal interpretation. headcanon. just to make this shitshow less shitty

  17. #517
    I played each on release more or less. Maybe not not on day one but within a few months of them dropping. Pretty sure all the DLCs but I don't have them on a spreadsheet by any means to confirm it. I usually play the trilogy once a year or so. The thing is to me is.. well.. it's just a story in a video game and that is just a tool I use to shape my Shepherd. Yeah sometimes things aren't perfect. No doubt for sure. But end of the day that path I take though the game and how I walk it matters a whole lot more to me than the narrative.

    I didn't really like Andromeda. Less about the writing and more about the sloggy open world game grind they put you though to terraform planets. Not to say the writing was great by any means but again for me its about walking the path and not the spoon feed story.

    My prediction for future installments? Well pretty much my faith in any major studios is pretty low. Bioware is certainly on that list for me.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    they are damaged, not destroyed. as per catalyst - they would be easy enough to repair, provided you pick destroy with high EMS. new reaper race is NOT an inevitability as we have have an opportunity to prove via alliance with Geth. THAT is what we learn, and geth dying in destroy ending is an asspull by bioware to make synthesis look more desirable. otherwise, even more people would pick destroy over anything else.

    I know what bioware intended. I have mentioned multiple times that I know that they intended it to be a good ending. doesn't mean they were aware of all the implications of it even while setting up said implications. they seem to have forgotten a LOT of the threads and stories they have set up in that ending.

    last but not least. the highest EMS? is not required for synthesis ending. the highest EMS is required for destroy plus. you know the one with piece of armor moving in a rubble and our squadmate/romantic partner somehow developing precognition and refusing to place the plaque with Shepard's name on memorial wall with extended cut. you talk about author intent? well riddle me the intent of making this particular choice and then doubling down on that.

    face it folks. it was bad writing all around and no amount of headcanon can justify it as anything other then bad writing. your headcanon for synthesis makes you hppy? more power to you. I disagree (obviously) that this is what synthesis is and how it works. after all, author's intent here is all important amirite, so you cannot just dismiss the extended cut here - as extended cut is literally bioware clarifying their intentions. you headcanon it to be less creepy? /shrug - I refuse to do so and work with other endings instead (or more specifically fan made ending that bypasses the whole starchild nonsense all together and doesn't turn geth into arbitrary sacrificial lambs - but to each their own)

    as written, synthesis is unintentional (apparently) body horror. and that's that.
    It's easy enough to repair billion year old tech after a massive war? Where are they getting the resources? Are the just going to turn them off and then on again like a router? Are they going to slowly drag all the required resources to each relay to repair em? Or they gonna gather the mats from nearby planets? What about the species that live there? They gonna be ok with you stealing all their shit so you can speed around and force them to not make synthetics? Also what happened to the keepers or what ever they were called?

    The geth being destroyed isn't an asspull. If you destroy all synthetics u destroy all synthetics. I feel you are trying to hand wave away genocide because you don't like the synthetic ending. Also how you gunna learn from the geth when you wiped em all out to save your ass from having those bad ass illusive man eyes. Are you forgetting that without Shepard's empathy and considering all options that the Racnai, Krogans, Geth and shit would all be wiped out? You really think anyone is going to learn from dead shit? They are just going to go back to they way things were.

    I never said the best ending EMS. I said that the worst ending was only to destroy. Also the Highest EMS is for the selfish ending aka the good renegade option. Its not about destroy being good but you living on. You willingly slaughtering your allies isn't a good moral thing but it is a good renegade thing.

    I wouldn't be talking about head cannon when you literally just posted a bunch of head cannon like the Geth dying being an asspull to justify a temporary reprieve from the synth vs organic cycle. What future synth is going to trust living creatures when history shows they willingly sacrificed billions of good artificial beings to save their own asses when there was other options? The extended cut was pulled together because they knew they fucked up and people were pissed. You can see the armor in the Extended cut Synthesis ending glowing green with circuits. Does that mean they want you to think armor is alive now? Why didn't the Normandy glow green in the original cut then?

    Yeah of course its bad writing. The whole ending of a series where the whole gimmick was that your choices matter and are meaningful then boiling it down to 4 options and not seeing what happened to everyone you saved was incredibly retarded to think was an ok thing to do. Oh and just rereading up on the Leviathan's makes the story even more retarded. They have the power to wipe out Reapers but don't even though they think they are the best beings in the universe they are content to hide like bitches until you show up. Then in the end if you destroy the Reapers you now have arrogant super squids who mind control people into serving them running around and the only power that scared them into hiding is now dead.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    You mean pre-extended cut? Because while I agree that they didn't outright state that Huskified forces gained their self-awareness back, in the extended cut, when the Husk is caught by the beam, it does clearly look like it is in awe, contemplating, etc. As opposed to the disintegration of Destroy and the running away of Control that indicates Shepbot is calling them back.

    And if I recall it's shown in the extended cut that Reapers from that point on start helping the cycle, sharing information, tech, rebuilding, etc.

    Yeah, but I don't think any of them really stack up to a race of ancient machines made of organic goop that has spent millions of years systematically cultivating and subsequently harvesting countless organic civilizations and didn't change their mind at any point until the magic green space beam hit, and would have resumed this effort if there was the slightest indication from the Catalyst that Synthesis wasn't the solution it had hoped for.

    At no point did they waver or regret. Synthesis simply placated them because it was the solution they were looking for.
    Yeah the Original cut doesn't have any of that creepy shit.

    None of them really had the opportunity do do what the Reapers did. And I don't think the Reapers can change themselves, they just keep following their programing.

    Destroy leaves mind controlling space squids free to take over the galaxy again and nothing to stop em.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Leyre View Post
    This is my favorite announcement on the citadel
    I'm so happy about this too. I have only played ME1&2, so 3 will be a nice bonus.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    oh, its metaphorical now? even though developers said that its all literal (which is what makes it unintentional bodyhorror in a first place) and why zoom in in a first place, to then later show both Joker AND Edi sharing that same circuitry and not a single strand of dna, but rather everyone having homogenous DNA now - while retaining more or less differing phenotype, and we sneer at indoctrination theory that hinges and this shit being metaphorical.

    why is it so difficult to accept that in their pursuit of rule of cool, bioware simply didn't consider what they are implying there? and do tell me in what metaphorical way did they alter the matrix of... culture, etc without brainwashing new paradigm into everyone's skulls? is the connection between species literal or metaphorical too and what does that mean to our eating habits?

    why is it so difficult to accept that what you have here is simply another version of your personal interpretation. headcanon. just to make this shitshow less shitty
    Well my head-canon is based on the fact that Synthesis is presented as a good ending, works to give organics the ability to operate on the same level as machines by forming collectives and takes some hints from the sci-fi series they obviously based the ending on.

    So are you saying when the Catalyst says "The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new...DNA," it's literal, so how does that work because that means the synthetic and organic life-forms have to physically become DNA. Not share the same DNA, not have new DNA, taken at face value they have to become DNA.

    By taking it metaphorically the Catalyst means the new framework or matrix governs how synthetic and organic life forms all interact, and that becomes the "DNA" or instructions that govern how the new, post-Reaper society develops. That's how I see it. The synthesis energy or field or whatever it is suffuses the galaxy and allows information to travel between beings in a similar manner to how Asari can pass information, or how the Prothean beacon dumps information into Shepard. So if you think giving people information and letting them choose how to respond is mind-control then yes it's mind control, but by the same logic Shepard had been mind-controlled by the Protheans since the beginning of the story.

    Taken literally, which is what you say it is, every life-form has to be taken and converted into deoxyribonucleic acid which is just nonsense and not what is shown in the ending.

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