So rogues can actually turn invisible?

[OIS]

Question in the title.

I've always thought rogues' Stealth was a gameplay convenience. You can't turn invisible to the naked eye by just crouching a little. But turns out you can haha. Is that a new thing or is it just me?

[Arrashi]

Obviously they are going all out koishi komeiji and just manipulate everyone's subconciousness so people don't notice them even if they are standing right in front of them.

[Theoris]

In The Shattering, Varian remarks that the rogues of SI:7 become indistinguishable from the shadows and in the A Good War/Elegy novel, Lorash and the undead rogue (I forget his name) are just very quiet when sneaking around or hiding in bushes and behind/in trees.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first instance of in-game Stealth being shown in canon.

[KaPe]

(...) It would be impossible to defend an entire kingdom from rogues if they're literally invisible. They'd easily cause massive damage.

I always assumed that stealth "detection" was far more common in lore than in gameplay. After all, there's only a handful of quests that feature enemies with true sight, usually with very limited range and strict patrol paths. Some of them are basically animals with heightened senses, capable of sensing Rogues at much larger distance than normal enemies.

Wouldn't be that much of a stretch to extend this to magical detection devices set around key areas and important characters being able to spot minor disturbances more effectively. Not nearly enough to make Rogues useless, but just the right amount to keep their overpowered potential in check.

I'd also assume that only the very best in their trade could achieve this near invisibility. Your typical random stealthed bandit is just a gameplay feature, more closely resembling some guy hiding behind the bushes than experienced assassin utilizing "shadow magic" or whatever.

[Segus1992]

It is.

Stealth has never made people completely invisible before, and in this cinematic the rogues are blatantly out in the open, then vanish in thin air. Saurfang is even able to grab and snap the neck of one that disappeared FROM the thin air, only for it to reappear dead in front of him.

There's no explaining that one away. That was full invisibility. Maybe vanishing powder at best, but that's a stretch - There was no puff of smoke of the powder except when the second one came OUT of stealth, not when they went back INTO it.

That part of the cinematic really felt like trying to adapt game mechanics into lore, that shouldn't BE lore. Rogues hide, they don't turn invisible.

[FelPlague]

Apparently at some point stealth became actual shadow magic that turns you invisible.

A really dumb choice. It raises so many questions about how the hell can this world function when rogues exist? They're literally invisible and have poisons capable of killing people with just a scratch. People should be living in terror of rogues assassinating people. Hell, sneak some plague with you and cause Stratholme 2.0. Poison the water supply, slit the throat of nobles that support the war effort, plant bombs everywhere, do whatever you want really. Sure there are countermeasures against stealth, but they can't be used everywhere.

It would be impossible to defend an entire kingdom from rogues if they're literally invisible. They'd easily cause massive damage.

how can our world work with enough nukes to destroy the planet?

how can wow's world work when mages can cast spells that can blow up entire buildings
how can wow's world work when warlocks can summon armies of demons no problem causing a massive invasions
how can wow's world work when guldan and khadgar and mages have been able to turn themselves invisible for a long, long, long time

[Theoris]

It is.

Stealth has never made people completely invisible before, and in this cinematic the rogues are blatantly out in the open, then vanish in thin air. Saurfang is even able to grab and snap the neck of one that disappeared FROM the thin air, only for it to reappear dead in front of him.

There's no explaining that one away. That was full invisibility. Maybe vanishing powder at best, but that's a stretch - There was no puff of smoke of the powder except when the second one came OUT of stealth, not when they went back INTO it.

Rule of cool, I'm guessing. Kinda ruins the previously established lore of rogues just being really good at sneaking without having to turn completely invisible, but there it is.

If nothing else, it was nice to see undead rogues in action. The poison trailing off the red rogue's blades as she sliced at Saurfang was a nice touch, too.

[Khaza-R]

Yes.

The whole subtlety tree has always been about a type of shadowy mysticism. That was also the tree that enhanced your stealth back in Vanilla too

- - - Updated - - -

It is.

Stealth has never made people completely invisible before, and in this cinematic the rogues are blatantly out in the open, then vanish in thin air. Saurfang is even able to grab and snap the neck of one that disappeared FROM the thin air, only for it to reappear dead in front of him.

There's no explaining that one away. That was full invisibility. Maybe vanishing powder at best, but that's a stretch - There was no puff of smoke of the powder except when the second one came OUT of stealth, not when they went back INTO it.

Subtlety has always implored shadow magic. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Alex86el]

Well, maybe that was magic. Or the effect of fadeleaf vanishing powder. Or engineering gadget.
My guess is shadow magic. Forsaken are masters of it. And there are abilities such as shadowstep and cloak of shadows.
But more importantly, how can the forsaken be such great rogues... when it is clearly stated in the novels that they STINK so very much.

[Aucald]

A lot of this is going to have to be chalked up to suspension of disbelief, in the end. Showing stealth in a fast-paced combat sequence is pretty difficult to do, so this is a kind of cinematic shorthand to get the general impression across. I don't think it's meant to be canon, as it were. They could also be used one-shot invisibility potions or a similar type of item for this special job, if you wanted to hard-weld it into canon so to speak.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, maybe that was magic. Or the effect of fadeleaf vanishing powder. Or engineering gadget.

But more importantly, how can the forsaken be such great rogues... when it is clearly stated in the novels that they STINK so very much.

That's probably something that helped Thrall and Saurfang pin down their locations.

[Schattenlied]

In The Shattering, Varian remarks that the rogues of SI:7 become indistinguishable from the shadows and in the A Good War/Elegy novel, Lorash and the undead rogue (I forget his name) are just very quiet when sneaking around or hiding in bushes and behind/in trees.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first instance of in-game Stealth being shown in canon.

In the Good war/Elegy novels, it quite specifically states that the rogues employ a bit of "the other shadow" to stay hidden (during the part where the BE rogue is setting up to ambush the druids running through the treetops).

So, it's shadow magic.

[Mouri Kogorou]

Well, maybe that was magic. Or the effect of fadeleaf vanishing powder. Or engineering gadget.
My guess is shadow magic. Forsaken are masters of it. And there are abilities such as shadowstep and cloak of shadows.
But more importantly, how can the forsaken be such great rogues... when it is clearly stated in the novels that they STINK so very much.

great rogues? i saw two noob rogues getting smacked by unarmed warriors.

[voxnor]

The persons holding the blades were literally walking undead beings, back from the grave. And we are worried about the lore-correctness of Vanish?

I don't even know where to begin here.

[seleri]

Shadow magic has always been implied when it comes to rogues, it's nothing new. I said this in another thread about this, I believe it was officially confirmed either at the WoD Blizzcon or the Blizzcon following Legion's announcement because I very clearly remember discussing it with a friend.

Also shadow magic doesn't have to literally involve shadows. Think of stealth as like a specialized, enhanced version of Fade.

[GreenJesus]

Apparently at some point stealth became actual shadow magic that turns you invisible.

A really dumb choice. It raises so many questions about how the hell can this world function when rogues exist? They're literally invisible and have poisons capable of killing people with just a scratch. People should be living in terror of rogues assassinating people. Hell, sneak some plague with you and cause Stratholme 2.0. Poison the water supply, slit the throat of nobles that support the war effort, plant bombs everywhere, do whatever you want really. Sure there are countermeasures against stealth, but they can't be used everywhere.

It would be impossible to defend an entire kingdom from rogues if they're literally invisible. They'd easily cause massive damage.

I mean... You do realize sub rogues use shadow magic right? Especially since legion rework. And rogues have always been able to use vanish and cloak of shadows while in the middle of combat and in melee range.

But yeh I never thought lorewise it actually worked like this. I always thought it was an exaggerated gameplay mechanic.

[FelPlague]

Congrats on confusing game mechanics with lore. In lore Mages and Warlocks can't instantly do that and a lot of times they resort to an external power source.

Mages can turn invisible though their spell is literally called invisibility
and guldan turned invisible so well that khadgar couldnt find him, even though he knew he was there, and guldan was casting a spell to break the tombs seals.

- - - Updated - - -

It is.

Stealth has never made people completely invisible before, and in this cinematic the rogues are blatantly out in the open, then vanish in thin air. Saurfang is even able to grab and snap the neck of one that disappeared FROM the thin air, only for it to reappear dead in front of him.

There's no explaining that one away. That was full invisibility. Maybe vanishing powder at best, but that's a stretch - There was no puff of smoke of the powder except when the second one came OUT of stealth, not when they went back INTO it.

the smoke is only therte in the second rogue cause thrall throws a handful of dirt at them to break them out of stealth

[FelPlague]

Vanish used to require Vanishing Powder to do. Hence why that was brought up earlier, but Vanishing Powder was not used here as the only time we see any kind of cloud of powder is when the second rogues comes OUT of stealth.

When the rogue goes back INTO stealth into Saurfang's hand, there's no cloud effect, nor shadow effect.

Cloak of Shadows has never had a lore implication, so we don't know how it works in Lore, but either way - You're not invisible. You're hard to hit. That sounds exactly like what Shadows do, they obscure the target, not make them invisible.

vanishing powder was not an on use item it was a reagent.

a spell requires a reagent, like an infernal sumoned using an infernal stone... does that mean you throw the infernal stone or something? no its just a reagent, an item that the spell requires to cast.

[Nnyco]

I always thought stealth is some kind of shadow magic, i mean heck you are invisible in broad daylight and you think youre just really good at sneaking? lol

[FelPlague]

Even the mage spell, Invisibility, FADES you into invisibility over 3 seconds. It's not instant.

And lore-wise, there's no channeling a spell. You cast invisibility and you can cast more spells.

and the rogue's stealth is instant, stop pretending that invisiblty does not exist in the world.

also yes there is tons of channeling spells in wows lore.

[FelPlague]

I always thought stealth is some kind of shadow magic, i mean heck you are invisible in broad daylight and you think youre just really good at sneaking? lol

yes its shadow magic, people are like "hur dur it used to be you hide in the shadows!"
obviously not because you can walk through the middle of barrens in the bright sun on a flat plain in stealth....

rogues can use shadow magic, holy shit, almost like they always have, being able to teleport behind enemies for example, or deal shadow damage with some abilities.