Specs so boring

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Affliction lost dot snapshotting and has been unengaging ever since, and has been made less fun to play with every expansion.
Destro is destro.
Demonology is not as fun as in MoP but out of the three specs, although not exciting it's still pretty cool with the whole summoner thing.

[keldarepewpew]

warlock is warlock

[Saltysquidoon]

What do you want people to do with this post?

Snapshotting was effectively removed from the game, aff wasn't the only spec affected by this. Are you imputing all dot specs are unengaging without snapshotting? If so that's not an aff problem, that's a you and dot specs problem.

Demo was always going to change when they released DH. If demo got to keep a meta that actively changed gameplay that would further go to highlight how creatively bankrupt blizzards class design had become (more than only being bothered to make two three-button specs).

[Xesco]

Affliction lost dot snapshotting and has been unengaging ever since, and has been made less fun to play with every expansion.
Destro is destro.
Demonology is not as fun as in MoP but out of the three specs, although not exciting it's still pretty cool with the whole summoner thing.

You are totally right mate. I find demo interesting but its not exciting. Aff peaked in Mop and its been a rollercoaster going down. snapshotting was IMO the best design warlocks ever had.

But about demo, what is a Demonologist? it says a "commander" on the talent window. Like i command more demons or like im the leader and i can transform into a demon?
Blizz decided locks are commanders who SUMMONS many demons and ofc instant summoning sounds "boring". Lets make them have 1.6sec+ cast for ALL demons.

[Ninix]

Affliction lost dot snapshotting and has been unengaging ever since, and has been made less fun to play with every expansion.
Destro is destro.
Demonology is not as fun as in MoP but out of the three specs, although not exciting it's still pretty cool with the whole summoner thing.

Warlocks are purple.

Statement. Boom.

[Aresk]

As someone who played Demo Cata-WoD and mained it in MoP, I definitely agree that current demo is a lot more boring. I'd love a builder/transform/spender style of gameplay, and currently no spec really offers that. DH obviously has meta, but their rotation isn't drastically different during the meta period. Shadowpriest might be the closest in 9.0, but even that is less a builder/spender and more a period where the rotation changes.

Also, demonic leap was one of my favorite warlock abilities. Crashing to the ground as a meteor was amazing fun! At least BfA fixed some of the Legion issues with demo, even if the spec still feels nothing like what it used to.

[Aggressive]

Specs of warlock have been boring since Warlords. They were kinda boring in Legion but the artifacts and weapons made them somewhat cool and interesting. Unfortunately I don't see the specs getting any interesting ever. People in this game think the warlock is OP as it, which leaves the specs boring as shit. After 16 years I finally shelved my warlock and went rogue.

This game needs life and something else to brighten it up. The developers keep putting in all this borrowed powers to try and liven it but that only goes so far. Like some think a 4th spec will help. I would agree. But people are saying that Blizz can't balance around 3 specs as it is. So we have a circle of boredom where the develops can't balance shit and players thinking a game is OP where it is = BORING SPECS.

[gandalfwg]

I just wanted to say, as a long time WoW player (pre-TBC but just barely) and a new warlock, I really really love the Demo spec as it stands right now. I think it's one of the most fun specs I have every played, with how it starts as a very simple rotation that then generates a feedback loop into itself. I really like the idea of us (Demo Locks) summoning large amounts of demons to our side and having them fight for us (vs something like BM hunters who just have an extra main pet). And I want to be clear that I don't think the opinions of those who played Meta specs in earlier expansions (MoP, etc) are obsolete, but just wanted to give my thoughts on the spec and how it plays. I wonder if there's a world where we could get both variations of the spec to work side by side? My knee-jerk would be to try to find a home for the old Demo Meta spec play in a different spec/class but then it wouldn't be a Demo lock, so that doesn't feel like a viable option.

[Stefanus]

As far as Demonology goes if Meta gameplay is out of the question, which I don't know why it should be, but let's suppose it's out of the question because DH's identity would be watered down (even though warlock's meta and DH's meta do not have anything in common), the best iteration of Demonology warlocks was LEGION version of demonology warlocks, even though it suffered from a lot of hard casting you could still work around with it even in competitive environments such as arenas, because the toolkit offered was enough to compensate and the gameplay was really fun - so in short regarding demonology LEGION version is the best imo.
Destruction wise - warlocks have seen the least changes in their mechanics with this spec even though I think the best iteration of this version was MoP version clearly (followed by Wotlk version)
Affliction is the spec that has went down the drain since BFA even though it was my favorite always and BFA was the only xpac I haven't played this spec at all... The major problem here is the dot uptime management i.e. dot duration has been further shortened in BFA making it impossible to maintain 3 dots on 3 targets in arenas for example and do anything else besides redotting, because dot duration is now at its history's low: corruption 14s, agony 18s and siphon life 15s (this could be fixed by reverting the change to dot duration as they were back in Legion: corruption 18s, agony 24s, siphon life 15s (same duration))...

Another problem I've seen not only with warlocks but with other classes only is streamlining game mechanic through resource build up and spender mechanic, which in the case of warlock's you can see through soulshards which turned into a resource for essential spells such as chaos bolt or UA (something else now in pre-patch) or any demon summoning spell in demonology... This is really bad game mechanic and for warlocks in particular would be much better if soul shards were spell amplifiers, as they were up until WoD hit, which was much better game mechanic interaction rather then simple build up spender... i.e. Soul Burn + any spell = improved version of a spell (basically warlock game mechanic from Wotlk to MoP and MoP)

[Cyanu]

Affliction lost dot snapshotting and has been unengaging ever since, and has been made less fun to play with every expansion.
Destro is destro.
Demonology is not as fun as in MoP but out of the three specs, although not exciting it's still pretty cool with the whole summoner thing.

suffice to say all of those are opinions...

imo affliction has never been better, Malefic Rupture is extremely satisfying, you set up everything and then you pummel them with repeated raptures for MASSIVE multi target damage

destro is fine, worse than mop better than BfA, there might even be a second fire based playstyle to compete with our usual Chaos Bolt specs, Reign of Chaos is also an innovative and fun (even if hard to balance) new talent

demo is well.. demo... they never knew wtf to do with this spec... and i have played the old meta spec, it was clunky AF full of bizzare mechanics and weird skills, always felt half finished and without any specific purpose or direction

if you add the return of curses, demonic circle baseline and some pretty cool convenant abilities (Scouring Tithe + Havoc anyone?), i'd say that's it's a vast improvement over what we have for a very long time (if not ever)

[Amariw]

Snapshotting was cool but MoP Aff had WAY more cool things going for it than just snapshotting.

You could use soulshards for a strong castable spender (Haunt) or a weaker but instant dmg option (Soulburn: Soulswap). This meant both in pvp vs many interrupts and in pve burst situations you had an option, and that option was an actual choice. You used your brain to decide what was best when.

You also had Soulburn's other utility effects, offering many many survivability, mobility or instant pet summoning options, giving you so many options at any given moment, and all costing a shard so its a meaningful decision. There was no reason to take it away.

Shadowlands might bring back a pvp talent that lets you instantly use shards (Rapid Contagion), but its on a 30 sec cd, which is so long you might as well use it when its up cuzz the rest of the time you might be melee cucked anyway. And its a far cry from the wealth of options soulburn gave.

Destruction is also a needlessly watered down version. It had an aoe toggle for its single target spells, making them cost shards but hit all nearbie targets. There were decisions about whether immolate incinerate or conflagrate were the best spell to use it with at any given moment, and it wasn't so hellishly tied down to rain of fire targeting circle if a tank decided to move.


Demo was hurt the most, even if the current version isnt awful. Demon form offered so much agency and decision making in the rotation, it was staggering. It wasnt my fav lock specc, but i truly believe its the most interesting and original specc blizz came up with in ALL of WoW's classes.

In general, the lose of ability to use resources for utility rather than dmg, and the loss of ability to use them for "inefficent, but useful at times" spenders (like Soulburn Soulswap) made todays rotation much duller. A darn shame.

- - - Updated - - -

suffice to say all of those are opinions...

imo affliction has never been better, Malefic Rupture is extremely satisfying, you set up everything and then you pummel them with repeated raptures for MASSIVE multi target damage

destro is fine, worse than mop better than BfA, there might even be a second fire based playstyle to compete with our usual Chaos Bolt specs, Reign of Chaos is also an innovative and fun (even if hard to balance) new talent

demo is well.. demo... they never knew wtf to do with this spec... and i have played the old meta spec, it was clunky AF full of bizzare mechanics and weird skills, always felt half finished and without any specific purpose or direction

if you add the return of curses, demonic circle baseline and some pretty cool convenant abilities (Scouring Tithe + Havoc anyone?), i'd say that's it's a vast improvement over what we have for a very long time (if not ever)

Gonna have to disagree with the bolded part. Its mechanics were designed to make demon form feel impactful, stronger, but give you huge agency over when to use it. Having your filler be instant (outside soulfires), and many spells changing to new functions in demon form, felt amazing. Spriest void form always felt a watered down copy in comparison.

[oathy]

Affliction lost dot snapshotting and has been unengaging ever since, and has been made less fun to play with every expansion.
Destro is destro.
Demonology is not as fun as in MoP but out of the three specs, although not exciting it's still pretty cool with the whole summoner thing.

It will always be my main
but the curses given back to the destro spec dont really add anything.
feels just the same. IMHO nothing will really change till there's fresh blood looking how
each class/spec is working.

The rifts we had in legion were a fun addition the fact they werent even offered as a talent

[Shandalar]

Demonology is a meme spec, the most hated of all. The devs, recognised haters of warlock and demonology, just wanna lol of you for play it. Just lost your hope about demon. Blizzard decided demon has to be the worst and clunkiest spec of the game.

[Biomega]

Snapshotting is ultimately bad for the game. While it's great to have some skill-based DoT application as a minigame within the rotation, it often leads to degenerate gearing and gameplay decisions down the line. Ultimately, it's more headaches than it's worth, sadly.

As for Demo... they really missed a trick when they didn't make it a tank spec. Now it's just... bleh.

[Elise the Seeker]

What do you want people to do with this post?

Snapshotting was effectively removed from the game, aff wasn't the only spec affected by this. Are you imputing all dot specs are unengaging without snapshotting? If so that's not an aff problem, that's a you and dot specs problem.

Demo was always going to change when they released DH. If demo got to keep a meta that actively changed gameplay that would further go to highlight how creatively bankrupt blizzards class design had become (more than only being bothered to make two three-button specs).

None of this contributes to anything. OP is right, snapshot removal could be a reason why affliction isnt as fun, but at the same time, spriest is fun. So I disagree about it being a snapshot problem and more of a spec design problem.

Meta and DH's could co exist just as resto druids and resto shams co exist, along with holy paladins and priests.

- - - Updated - - -

Specs of warlock have been boring since Warlords. They were kinda boring in Legion but the artifacts and weapons made them somewhat cool and interesting. Unfortunately I don't see the specs getting any interesting ever. People in this game think the warlock is OP as it, which leaves the specs boring as shit. After 16 years I finally shelved my warlock and went rogue.

This game needs life and something else to brighten it up. The developers keep putting in all this borrowed powers to try and liven it but that only goes so far. Like some think a 4th spec will help. I would agree. But people are saying that Blizz can't balance around 3 specs as it is. So we have a circle of boredom where the develops can't balance shit and players thinking a game is OP where it is = BORING SPECS.

Agreed, ever since the final patch of Warlords, warlocks have been in a terrible space in terms of engagements and fun.

[evertonbelmontt]

Afflic seems really nice for me.
I love all the curses back (use all of them, really), love the portal baseline, howl of terror again, everything was an upgrade and the spec feels so good now.

The only real complain I can understand is malefic grasp doing the damage while some people want heavy dots. I think Malefic Grasp is amazing because if you are able to cast, you really are rewarded for it. But it's a problem in PVP when you never are allowed to cast (and that's why we're getting the new talent, it's basically their fix to MG being almost useless in PVP unless you are not focused).

[Saltysquidoon]

None of this contributes to anything. OP is right, snapshot removal could be a reason why affliction isnt as fun, but at the same time, spriest is fun. So I disagree about it being a snapshot problem and more of a spec design problem.

Meta and DH's could co exist just as resto druids and resto shams co exist, along with holy paladins and priests.

1. I have no idea what you're trying to say.
If they enjoyed aff less explicitly because they liked snapshotting (which we have to assume based on OP's one sentence of explanation) surely it stands to reason they enjoyed all dot specs less after its removal. I mean there's no reason you would have suddenly enjoyed unholy more after snapshotting was removed if the spec was otherwise identical but aff less if they liked snapshotting as a mechanic. In which case yes it is a snapshotting issue.
If the OP had bothered to vomit out more than one sentence we might have something more to work with, like maybe they dislike some specific change since or because of snapshotting's removal. But we might never now know.

2. Why are you comparing an ability to the names of specs that otherwise play entirely differently?
Insofar as meta itself, I'm tempted to agree there was theoretically design space for both to exist. But with how barebones DH's ultimately ended up being I understand why blizzard did what they did from a business standpoint. I mean it's no accident they intentionally killed demo for a 12-month patch preceding DH's release. DH's basically only have meta (and it's not even interesting).
That and Demo has ever been the redheaded stepchild of the lock specs, blizzards never (and still doesn't) like or prioritize it

[Amariw]

1. I have no idea what you're trying to say.
If they enjoyed aff less explicitly because they liked snapshotting (which we have to assume based on OP's one sentence of explanation) surely it stands to reason they enjoyed all dot specs less after its removal. I mean there's no reason you would have suddenly enjoyed unholy more after snapshotting was removed if the spec was otherwise identical but aff less if they liked snapshotting as a mechanic. In which case yes it is a snapshotting issue.
If the OP had bothered to vomit out more than one sentence we might have something more to work with, like maybe they dislike some specific change since or because of snapshotting's removal. But we might never now know.

2. Why are you comparing an ability to the names of specs that otherwise play entirely differently?
Insofar as meta itself, I'm tempted to agree there was theoretically design space for both to exist. But with how barebones DH's ultimately ended up being I understand why blizzard did what they did from a business standpoint. I mean it's no accident they intentionally killed demo for a 12-month patch preceding DH's release. DH's basically only have meta (and it's not even interesting).
That and Demo has ever been the redheaded stepchild of the lock specs, blizzards never (and still doesn't) like or prioritize it

You say that about Demo, but in mop-wod it was probably the most interesting specc in the game. I liked aff and dest slightly more and tuning wise it wasn't quite up to par, but the design was amazing, demonology metamorph form maked spriest voidform look like child's play.

[Todd K Lai]

I agree with you

[muto]

DoT snapshotting was the opposite of fun. Nothing is more unfun than babysitting procs. I think the current iteration of Affliction is pretty fun, though Demo is probably my favorite, and Destro is fun because of big Chaos Bolts.