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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Menolikeu View Post
    While we are in the shadowlands the argent crusade will be recruiting members to deal with the scourge and hold them at bay until we can find a way to control them again. The Jailer is a huge part of the scourge's ability to run free.
    So a warchief of the horde turns evil, causes both the alliance and the horde to turn on them, and opens a portal to a different dimension, which causes a dangerous army to threaten Azeroth, so a small elite group of heroes goes into the portal to stop the problem at its root, meanwhile once again meeting different important but previously dead characters.

    Sounds eerly similar to a previous expansion

  2. #22
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Because Blizzard wanted to keep the Scourge in their back pocket for reuse after Arthas died. I'd bet money that even after Shadowlands, something will happen and the Scourge won't be fully wiped out, just in case they want to pull this out of their back pocket again. This time maybe the Jailer will have been duped all along.
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  3. #23
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Without someone donning the Helm of Domination, the Scourge would rampage unchecked across Azeroth spreading the Plague of Undeath and causing the deaths of many, many more people. This is not to say they couldn't be stopped eventually, but the process would lead to tremendous loss of life and the Horde and Alliance were already coming off yet another war (in this case in Northrend). Bolvar took up the Helm and bent his will toward keeping the Scourge contained, but this isn't to say his control was anything approaching absolute, and the Helm also exerts its own influence on the one wearing it (as demonstrated both in WotLK and Legion). The Horde and Alliance couldn't just liquidate the Scourge in stasis because this would likely arouse the influence of the Helm, and the Scourge would likely defend itself regardless - and that might cause a worse problem than the previous one.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by El Caballero de Olmedo View Post
    Well, I suppose it's true. But its a weakened Scourge, since throughout Wrath we eliminated many of its forces and their most powerful commanders, and even still the Scourge is a super threat? I don't know
    Yea its stupid lore.. and you almost break a leg when trying to explain it.

    It was a weird move and I remember I also never liked it, from the first moment I watched the cutscene.

    Many were expecting more at the time.

  5. #25
    It never made sense to me either.
    Lich King is Kil'Jaeden's creation. Arthas was only the 2nd Lich King ever. Lich King didn't even exist as recently as Warcraft 2. Only between Wc 2 and 3 he was created.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Without someone donning the Helm of Domination, the Scourge would rampage unchecked across Azeroth spreading the Plague of Undeath and causing the deaths of many, many more people. This is not to say they couldn't be stopped eventually, but the process would lead to tremendous loss of life and the Horde and Alliance were already coming off yet another war (in this case in Northrend). Bolvar took up the Helm and bent his will toward keeping the Scourge contained, but this isn't to say his control was anything approaching absolute, and the Helm also exerts its own influence on the one wearing it (as demonstrated both in WotLK and Legion). The Horde and Alliance couldn't just liquidate the Scourge in stasis because this would likely arouse the influence of the Helm, and the Scourge would likely defend itself regardless - and that might cause a worse problem than the previous one.
    The champion of the horde and alliance ravaged through the scourge ranks, including all of their luitanants etc.

    We had alot of forces ourselves so you cant blame players for not realy believing or feeling that its someyhing we cant controll or kill. That said it was a bit of a weak hook to be realy honest. I ubderstand gameplay/lore situations, but mindless foesaken are like weak ghouls...

  7. #27
    This thread would have been better if it read: Why didn't the red and green dragonflights just obliterate the scourge from the earth? Why fight the ground fight when we had CLEAR air superiority.

    OR

    Why didn't all the multiboxing Moonkins just push the scourge back?

  8. #28
    There must always be a lich king for two reasons:
    1. The scourge is an exponent threat, all it takes is winning one battle to become a continent-spanning threat. Thus while the implication is they can be contained on their own if they attacked while the alliance and horde were otherwise engaged it would be gg.
    2. Blizzard realized at this point that WoW was a money-spinner and the LK was a huge drawcard so in fear of repeating the mistakes of TBC they left the thread open.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    In BfA, we learn that the Lich King is not only the jailer of the damned, who controls the Scourge telepathically. He is also the guardian of the very veil between Life and Death, as said veil is located precisely at Icecrown Citadel.
    So who was the guardian of that before the lich king existed a mere decade ago?

    The reality is making the scourge into some 4d galaxy brain move by the jailer is needlessly convoluted, lets be honest, the jailer didn't need to be attached to the scourge at all even if sylvanas needed the helm to access the shadowlands that could have just been because it's powerful and death aligned. All of this is a naked attempt by blizzard to say to normies 'member the scourge? 'member the lich king? You liked wrath right? please buy the expansion (which if the pr sites are to be believed worked a treat).
    In an attempt to make it not an obvious retcon (which it undeniably is, no one can seriously expect blizzard to plan the story this far in advance nor should they), they've just made it dumber.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  9. #29
    If they don't change lore then the game can never move the universe forward, I used to care about retcons but then I grew up OP.
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  10. #30
    Dreadlord bloodkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    So a warchief of the horde turns evil, causes both the alliance and the horde to turn on them, and opens a portal to a different dimension, which causes a dangerous army to threaten Azeroth, so a small elite group of heroes goes into the portal to stop the problem at its root, meanwhile once again meeting different important but previously dead characters.

    Sounds eerly similar to a previous expansion
    correct, not to mention that blizz specifically promised they wouldn't hit sylvanas with the garrosh bat, lol. Then again, they also did a reverse garrosh on illidan, so I'd think that blizz really is running out of ideas and is letting the interns have a run at storyboarding for a few xpacs.
    'Something's awry.' -Duhgan 'Bel' beltayn

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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    The old lore was that without the Lich King to keep them in check, the sheer number of Scourge would run rampant and destroy all life on Azeroth. The Lich King was able to control them but wouldn't be able to just destroy them all himself.

    But of course Shadowlands retconned that and we are somehow able to just simply fight off the Scourge even while they're rampaging across Azeroth. It's just further evidence that the story of the next expansion is abyssmal.
    No its not..... It still makes sense that there always needs to be a lich king because the scourge would STILL run rampant, that remains true even now. Bolvar didnt fall to the influence of the jailer such was the strength of his will, and become another arthas.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Menolikeu View Post
    The story is very well written....
    Quote Originally Posted by Menolikeu View Post
    Not everyone can follow the story line....
    Bro please ....... lol

  13. #33
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Caballero de Olmedo View Post
    There is something I've never quite understood from the Lich King's nature and purpose and it's the famous qoute that "there must always be a Lich King", because the Scourge must be controlled or they will ravage the world if unleashed.

    But my question is, why? Why must the Scourge be contained/controlled? Why keep such terrible threat to the world remain? It makes no sense to me, if the argument is that the undead will consume the living if left unchecked, why does the new Lich King not destroy them himself? Does the Helm of Domination not have that power? Can't the Lich King just re-absorb the power that sustains every undead or something like that?

    I suppose that it no longer matters now, after the shattering of the Helm, but for argument's sake lets discuss!
    Because, without the helm, we're about to see what happens starting today.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Menolikeu View Post
    The story is actually well written if you go through and read all of the quests, which I am assuming you did not. Just the cinematics don't tell the whole story. We are able to kill the scourge, that was never a part of the story that we couldn't. While we are in the shadowlands the argent crusade will be recruiting members to deal with the scourge and hold them at bay until we can find a way to control them again. The Jailer is a huge part of the scourge's ability to run free. Dealing with him will fix the scourge issue, then later on in the expansion we will go after Sylvanas and we will get our revenge. The story is very well written if you take the time to read it, and actually research the story. Not everyone can follow the story line, but once you get a grasp of it. I doubt you could come up with a story like this on your own.
    Yeah, the story in which half of the Scourge broke free because the Lich King got blasted with a spell from half across the world and another batch broke free because he got hit with a shiny sword, yet the Lich King dying altogether does not make the remaining Scourge break free is truly a masterpiece. On a more honest note, why do people defending Blizzard almost always resort to the same old trite spiel of "You need like 300 IQ to grasp this story and then it's amazing"? It's just one step above "my favorite writer can beat your favorite fighter in a fist fight" in terms of terrible arguments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    Can't expect people to read quest text, that's too much to ask from people with a 3 second attention span at most. It's much easier just to assume everything sucks, and Blizzard "forgot" everything about their own lore (And certainly not simply keeping things flexible enough to keep lore fitting if altered for the sake of fun gameplay).
    Yeah, no. Reading quest text shows precisely why Menolikeu's brilliant defense of Blizzard kami-sama doesn't pan out. Blizzard couldn't even keep something as basic as whether Ner'zhul is alive or not in the span of one patch back in WotLK, but hey, they totally don't suck and they've never forgotten a thing. That's why they are the golden standard of consistent writing in the industry Also, please do tell what kind of "fun gameplay" specifically required them to bend over backwards half a dozen times on the topic of the Scourge and to keep things "flexible" about it. Because the only gameplay pertaining to the Scourge is a second repeat of the Scourge invasion event. Truly thrilling.
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  15. #35
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    The champion of the horde and alliance ravaged through the scourge ranks, including all of their luitanants etc.

    We had alot of forces ourselves so you cant blame players for not realy believing or feeling that its someyhing we cant controll or kill. That said it was a bit of a weak hook to be realy honest. I ubderstand gameplay/lore situations, but mindless foesaken are like weak ghouls...
    They cut down Arthas' main column, yes; but Scourge threats still remained. Don't forget that "weak ghouls" largely took out Lordaeron, and the Scourge turns the fallen into more of itself via the Plague or Necromancy - leading very quickly to an exponential threat. A weakened and battle-weary Alliance and Horde would also be ill-prepared for yet another main offensive, in addition to the fact that with the Wrath Gate incident they now had their sights set on one another.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  16. #36
    To me it's more the idea of the Scourge going feral without a Lich King that bothers me. Considering undeads are mostly soul-less corpses or trapped souls compelled to do the Lich King's bidding, the former should simply dissipate if the spellcasters don't sustain it (or you have to kill it once), and the latter should get their free will back like Knights of the Ebon Blade. The fact that the scourge is completely feral and all regenerating is just something that's pretty lazy to me and was pretty clear that the writers want the scourge to be a dormant force on Azeroth until they can recycle it in another expansion.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    So a warchief of the horde turns evil, causes both the alliance and the horde to turn on them, and opens a portal to a different dimension, which causes a dangerous army to threaten Azeroth, so a small elite group of heroes goes into the portal to stop the problem at its root, meanwhile once again meeting different important but previously dead characters.

    Sounds eerly similar to a previous expansion
    lol oh my goodness when you put it that way... XD
    Makes sense though, BfA copied MoP, and WoD was after MoP :P
    I guess after SL the void lords will be invading, and it'll be the biggest invasion yet! Cities will VOID! Anduin will die on the Shattered Beach :P

  18. #38
    Old God HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Because, without the LK...

    The 9.0 Scourge Event happens.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh wait...

    It's today.

  19. #39
    Isn't the whole scourge thing pretty much the same as a pandemic. Hypothetical: There would be a global pandemic going on right now, wouldn't it be nice to control it somehow?

    But then again the scourge isn't much of a threat ingame right now. A couple of weeks ago it was, but people complained so blizzard nerfed the scourge event to the ground. Thats probably the factor people think 'we don't need a lich king we just aoe all these zombies down'.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Without someone donning the Helm of Domination, the Scourge would rampage unchecked across Azeroth spreading the Plague of Undeath and causing the deaths of many, many more people. This is not to say they couldn't be stopped eventually, but the process would lead to tremendous loss of life and the Horde and Alliance were already coming off yet another war (in this case in Northrend). Bolvar took up the Helm and bent his will toward keeping the Scourge contained, but this isn't to say his control was anything approaching absolute, and the Helm also exerts its own influence on the one wearing it (as demonstrated both in WotLK and Legion). The Horde and Alliance couldn't just liquidate the Scourge in stasis because this would likely arouse the influence of the Helm, and the Scourge would likely defend itself regardless - and that might cause a worse problem than the previous one.
    Hhmm, yes, I suppose that makes sense.

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