Maybe, and maybe not. The overriding imprimatur of the Scourge is a hatred of life and the living, so I would argue sectarian strife among them would actually be minimal until Azeroth was a lifeless sphere - then they'd probably set upon one another with a will and establish a hierarchy, having slaked their majority of their hate. That wouldn't be very helpful to Azeroth as a whole, of course; much less the bulk of the living.
I can agree finishing the job of conclusively ending the Scourge would've been better than the stopgap measure of anointing Bolvar as Jailer of the Damned, but then again if we hadn't have done that we probably would've been unable to contend with the current threat anyways (which is admittedly neither here nor there).
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Hahaha, Warcraft would be SUCH a different world if they followed any modern military tactics. I can't even remember the last time I saw actual calvary. We've got different kinds of mounts up the ass, but everyone dismounts to fight minus the odd mob. No sweeping charges that keep moving and swing back around.
The Horde airship has THE biggest cannon in the game...anyone ever actually see it get used? The Alliance gunship is a mobile weapons platform...and the primary strategy is what? Land troops ASAP then sit back and wait. There shouldn't be a battlefield by the time those airships are done.
Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/
Is this a copypasta? Seriously. The story is not well written. It's acceptable for modern video game content, sure, but it's still full of plot holes (that they could sometimes avoid just by not adding too many details) and of contradictions within character behavior and themes.
Last edited by Koward; 2020-11-10 at 05:28 PM.
Difficult to say - but I assume the Scourge held in reserve would simply escape from their current enclaves and just run amok, spreading the Plague and killing randomly, increasing their numbers. Necromancers, Liches, and other greater Scourge who aren't mindless but still imprinted with the Scourge's hallmark hatred of all life would induct these new members into growing armies, putting them against their former kin until all life on Azeroth was extinguished, or the Scourge itself was decisively stopped. Then, assuming a Scourge victory, the Scourge would turn on itself in an attempt to establish a hierarchy, and would eventually empanel a new Lich King (or at least a new leader) to rule over an undead Azeroth.
Undead beings existed long before the Helm of Domination did. You had Nathrezim raising the Kaldorei dead up as zombies all the way back in the War of the Ancients.
Tension is a matter of degree - the Alliance and Horde have always been able to put aside their differences and defend Azeroth, but the numerous delays and false starts in the process are still going to get a lot of people killed on both sides. The higher the tension, the more difficult it is to finally set aside and do what must be done. This isn't really about victory or defeat, either; just the brutal calculus of lives lost in the fighting itself.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
My theory is that the Terenas that appeared when Frostmourne was destroyed was not the real Terenas. Whether the Terenas in ICC cinematic and the Terenas inside Frostmourne during the encounter were real or not doesn't really matter. My theory is that it was the Jailer's illusion to trick us.
Imagine the situation in which the ghost of Terenas doesn't appear. Frostmourne is already destroyed, Arthas is dead. What would be the next logical step? Destroy the Helm too. But it was simply too early. The machine of Death might or might not have been broken at that time, but Jailer was not powered up enough yet - remember he recruits Sylvanas for a reason. So the Helm's destruction would probably not shatter the veil at the current state.
How to prevent Tirion from shattering the Helm? That's right - let's use an illusion of his former king, one of the first victims of Death Knight Arthas, someone with "insider" knowledge. Let's tell this light-devouted paladin that his greatest enemy will swarm the whole planet if a new Lich King is not coronated. When you add up all of it, you're left with Tirion who never even questioned what Terenas said - he believed him in an instant, without even considering discussing it with the other leaders.
It always bothered me that Terenas was able to just ressurect us, the heroes, just like that. Like, just why would he have such power? He might have been a powerful spirit, but it's not enough to redirect our spirits out of the stream of souls escaping Frostmourne. This clearly must have been done by someone who wields the powers of the Death itself. It could be just another trick of the Jailer, to further ensure that Tirion would obey what "Terenas" says, by ressurecting many "good" people, which, in Tirion's eyes, could only be done by the Light itself.
TLDR: It was the Jailer, not Terenas. It was too early for the shattering of the Helm to have any impact on the veil, or the Jailer was not powerful enough yet. Therefore, "There must always be a Lich King (not really, just until I'm powerful enough)".
Right so in short, not to be that guy, but most scourge and undead were killed/burned by us and other faction long before we even went to Northrend and did so again in wrath. So some one would need to ress the undead to even start the rampage? That will take some time before they would even pose a threat realy.
Their numbers would become dangerous yes if left unchecked. If we knew, we could have just cleared it all and leave the crown in the ice.. only to wait for some one to take its power.
Last edited by Alanar; 2020-11-10 at 05:50 PM.
Not really, no. Arthas' ultimate goal was to bring us to him and subvert us, not to kill us, and so we never faced the full brunt of the Scourge - it was a ruse to draw us out, to Icecrown Citadel, where he would ultimately kill us all and raise us as generals of the Scourge. As demonstrated by the current goings-on in the pre-patch, the Scourge has always had massive numbers held in reserve. They've been kept mostly in stasis by Bolvar up until now, and if Bolvar didn't assume the Helm they would've been freed to run rampant across Azeroth.
Except I sincerely doubt they'd do that - they would follow their essential directive first, kill the living, before falling on themselves to establish a hierarchy. They'd be a united front until no one was left to distract them, then they'd set upon one another (after we're all dead or undead).
Last edited by Aucald; 2020-11-10 at 06:16 PM.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
All over the place? Did you see the cinematic about the raising of Sindragosa and the legions of undead she flies over? Undead all over Icecrown itself, all over Northrend. They have underground warrens and bunkers, they're burrowed into secret places and remote fastnesses. I mean where do you think the Scourge forces attacking right now during the pre-patch have come from? They were always there, biding their time under Bolvar's constraining influence.
Also, as per the BlizzCon 2011 panel:
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Road to Damnation, pg. 3
Icecrown and the Frozen Throne
Journal of Archmage Antonidas
Chronicle Vol. 1
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
All I see is headcanon from you, you keep bending everything around just so that you can claim that writers were right. It would be extremely easy to predict mindless scourge movement and setup killing grounds with baricades and artillery.
And no, they wouldnt be able to ressurect those they lost even with necromancers since the bodies would be annihilated beyond use.
There must always be a Lich King because someone needs to control the Scourge. Otherwise they'd "run rampant". It was explained.
Well I've cited sources, provided evidence, and explained and re-explained the rationale here - if all you can see is headcanon I can't really help you further, either you've willingly chosen to blinker yourself or you simply refuse any viewpoint contrary to your own. Also there's claim here that the "writers were right," and I'm not sure what you're even talking about in this case. Do you mean the reality of the story is not what the writers claim it to be (which would be an impossibility for fiction), or that the writers somehow changed their tune (which isn't in evidence)? What is your evidence that the Scourge would be easy to predict and eradicate without the control of the Lich King?
The Scourge doesn't annihilate bodies beyond use, because it uses bodies to fuel its ranks - and if the Alliance and Horde have to do the dual duty of fighting the Scourge as well as annihilating the bodies of those that fall in the midst of conflict then they're going to be fighting an uphill battle on all fronts.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
I've been saying this shit since the day i killed Arthas way back when.
>theremustalwaysbealichking.jpg
>put on the helmet
>command all of the scourge to icecrown
>firebomb everything to shit with airships and dragons
>take of the fucking helm
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Originally, the Lich King needed to exist in order to keep a psychic bind on the remaining undead that haven't been destroyed. As for why they weren't destroyed after Bolvar kept them in check, I'd imagine it's because of the Cataclysm taking everyone's attention away. Then, each expansion afterward kept Azeroth's attention. So it's not a plot hole, but it's convenient nonetheless.
I believe that is what happens. The Jailer does take control of the feral scourge. Similar to how Amon took control of the feral zerg at the start of Legacy of the Void.
At the end of the prepatch chain (from what was on the PTR), you fight a mawsworn who is basically controlling the scourge, at least those in Icecrown
- - - Updated - - -
Some of the scourge that remained in the plaguelands did start to turn on each other. You even kill a crypt lord who thinks he can become the next "lich king" at some point with the cata revamp.
But yeah, it did feel like that blizzard made Bolvar the Lich King for a "break glass in case of running out of ideas in near future".
- - - Updated - - -
Yeah, the greater scourge such as Liches, Death Knights, necromancers etc are basically the equivalent to the zerg cerebrates following the Overminds death, or the Brood Mothers following Zerrigans disinfestation. Both were created to control individual zerg broods but still answered to a higher power (Overmind for cerebrates / Kerrigan for brood mothers). Following their respective leaders defeats, they became independent. The difference was that the cerebrates needed an Overmind to survive in the long term (hence why several of them merged to create a new overmind). Meanwhile the Brood Mothers either fought each other for control, or just went off to do their own thing. Even after Kerrigan began to take control over the swarm, some brood mothers like Zegara refused to follow willingly. However, both the cerebrates and the brood mothers still had control over their broods. Likewise powerful scourge agents can still take control over lesser undead. Which we do see in the plaguelands in Cata. Like how a crypt lord wanted to create his own scourge with blackjack and hookers.
Because it sounded like a damn cool line to use in 2008.
and you know that Blizzard didn't think ahead back then, they just rode the rule of cool. I mean, they still do, but atleast they plan a few expansions ahead now