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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Chromell View Post
    Not taking any sides here, but this is all your speculation, no?
    It should be obvious that this is what happened.

    Sylvanas was a simple banshee when she died. She was not a special creature. However, she was easily manipulated by the Jailer, who played into her terror of the Maw and desire to create a better afterlife for herself and everyone else.

    Of course, the Jailer doesn't care about mortals controlling their own fates, he just wants to consume everything. That's a convenient lie he used to lure Sylvanas into his side. The pieces are easy to put together.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Queendom View Post
    What was the point of introducing branching in BFA war campaign questline if the choices don't have any impact

    If I had to guess, probably to get the players to whining and giving the illusion of "player agency" which was a real big buzz-phrase at the time. I suppose it did have some impact as loyalists got some different dialog in a few quests.

    Like wearing N'zoth's eyeball hat, you can always keep waiting with hope that someday they are going to acknowledge the loyalist status with something special.

  3. #183
    As people say nowadays, you got the simp experience, just like Nathanos. She used you and threw you away. That was it. It ended there.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    She used you and threw you away. That was it. It ended there.
    But this does not happen in the game. Loyalist chain ends with Windrunner spire cutscene, you're not betrayed, disappointed with, used by or whetever else. And it happens AFTER Saurfang death. So even in your last quest for Sylvanas you're still fine with her and she with you. This questline just ends in nothing, and the next thing you know is SL prepatch event quest chain "hurr-durr Sylvanas is evil". The stuff Lorthemar and others are talking about on the roof of Grommash Hold only make sense for Saurfang loyalists.

  5. #185
    We have to make concessions by playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG. From a game-play and game design perspective it would be very taxing to try to give each player a different experience based on their choices. It would be akin to making a 3rd (or more) faction. So, they have to sacrifice some lore and story consistency, in order to keep some balance.

    Your complaint is valid, it is weird to have apparent choices when they don't matter, but it's something they have to "simplify" to have a consistent MMO experience for everyone.

    I wouldn't say it's meaningless. Sometimes those "fake choices" give us elements to play in our heads with the story and the personality of our characters, even if ultimately they converge in the same ending for everyone.

    Think of it like when you do a random quest and end up doing something your character wouldn't do, but you end up doing the quest anyway in order to keep the game going. Almost every quest in game railroad you in a way or another, but you just bite the bullet because that's how it's programed and it wouldn't make much sense to spend a lot of resources crafting a personalized experience for everyone in an MMO.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    I'm left here having to wonder if there's going to end up some hidden reward for siding with Sylvanas later on in SL. It makes it pretty confusing if doing something like participating in killing Nathanos would potentially hurt any kind of future reward because it may be considered a rebel choice. I want to keep doing the loyalist line if possible and it kind of sucks not being certain that there may or may not be more of it later because unless they explicitly state otherwise there could be more.
    Well, it seems like nathanos wanted to die anyways so maybe it was the loyalist choice too ;P

  7. #187
    Lol.. lowkey Blizzard telling you Sylvannas loyalist = Trump supporter

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
    Lol.. lowkey Blizzard telling you Sylvannas loyalist = Trump supporter
    That's irrelevant to like pretty much the entire world minus, what, 3%?

    They're a global company, it'd be foolish for such a company to involve local politics into a global product (which doesn't mean that they won't make that mistake, but it's that much more unlikely).

    Also it seems more than a little unfair to compare Trump or his supporters to a literal genocidal nihilist (and her supporters).
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Queendom View Post
    But this does not happen in the game. Loyalist chain ends with Windrunner spire cutscene, you're not betrayed, disappointed with, used by or whetever else. And it happens AFTER Saurfang death. So even in your last quest for Sylvanas you're still fine with her and she with you. This questline just ends in nothing, and the next thing you know is SL prepatch event quest chain "hurr-durr Sylvanas is evil". The stuff Lorthemar and others are talking about on the roof of Grommash Hold only make sense for Saurfang loyalists.
    You do understand that Sylvanas was trying to have you killed at Nazjatar, Yes? Which you discover in the N'Zoth fight.

    So No, she didn't give a fuck about you and actually wanted you out of the picture. Don't delude yourself of otherwise.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    You do understand that Sylvanas was trying to have you killed at Nazjatar, Yes? Which you discover in the N'Zoth fight.
    I don't remember that, when and how does this happen? I don't think I saw Sylvanas mentioned in the game at all after war campaign conclusion in 8.2.5. I also didn't find anything on that matter on Wowpedia.
    Last edited by Queendom; 2020-11-12 at 07:49 PM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Queendom View Post
    I don't remember that, when and how does this happen? I don't think I saw Sylvanas mentioned in the game at all after war campaign conclusion in 8.2.5.
    During the N'Zoth encounter, visions of the past appear, one of which shows the bargain between Azshara and Sylvanas:

    Queen Azshara yells: We have a bargain, then. I will bring both fleets crashing to the ocean floor, and our champion will deliver the dagger to me.
    Sylvanas Windrunner yells: And in turn, you will have the key required to free the Old God from his bonds... and leave him vulnerable.
    Queen Azshara yells: You wound me, Warchief. After all, I am as dedicated to my master as you are to your subjects.
    Sylvanas Windrunner yells: Indeed. Just be certain that once you have what you need, you dispose of your guests. Let none of the "heroes" escape.
    Queen Azshara yells: I admire your ruthlessness, Windrunner. It seems our interests are aligned... at present.
    Sylvanas already mentioned at the end of 8.2.5 that she made a bargain with Azshara.

    So stop thinking Sylvanas gave a shit about you, because spoilers: She really didn't.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  12. #192
    Imagine getting so worked up over a fictional character, Blizzard really did its number on some players with Sylvanas lately.

    Its good writing if you get people this passionate about something, wether or not you like it.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melliodas View Post
    Imagine getting so worked up over a fictional character, Blizzard really did its number on some players with Sylvanas lately.

    Its good writing if you get people this passionate about something, wether or not you like it.
    It is just cheesy. The day Blizzard pulls out a Thanos, or at least a Palpatine kind of villain I will rethink my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    No it is not. Again, I did not partake in any of the Shadoiwlands events. I did not do anything for the Horde Council. Therefore, I did not renounce her. By your absurd logic, I am responsible for the Halocaust, WWII, Vietnam War and all other events despite the fact I wasn't even alive for them simply because they happened. That is now how this works at all. It does not matter if the events happens. I did not partake in it therefore I did not renounce her. Period.
    You weren't around for those, which is the key difference between you and your character and why your analogy is meaningless.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smith View Post
    One of the mods probably picked the loyalist route.
    Clearly, the vast majority was.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
    Lol.. lowkey Blizzard telling you Sylvannas loyalist = Trump supporter
    And traitors = Hillary supporters?

    Makes sense.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

    My pet collection --> http://www.warcraftpets.com/collection/FuxieDK/

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Clearly, the vast majority was.
    Yeah..no. That is quite the claim you have there, mostly because you got bugger all by doing the loyalist route, that alone makes your claim highly unlikely.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  17. #197
    What was the point of siding with Sylvanas in BFA?
    The point was player engagement. Fomo achievements/mounts/gear, x-forging, weekly chests, those are all ways to keep players engaged, built mostly on the loot and collections systems. Sylvanas' choices were a very minor version of those, working on the storytelling system, which the dev team had yet to mobilize for player engagement other than the occasional cutscene.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Clearly, the vast majority was.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And traitors = Hillary supporters?

    Makes sense.
    Lol, there's no way that the majority picked the questline that didn't give you a new toy.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-11-13 at 10:58 AM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  19. #199
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Lol, there's no way that the majority picked the questline that didn't give you a new toy.
    All I know, did it on ONE toon for the toy and stayed loyal on the rest.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

    My pet collection --> http://www.warcraftpets.com/collection/FuxieDK/

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Melliodas View Post
    Imagine getting so worked up over a fictional character, Blizzard really did its number on some players with Sylvanas lately.

    Its good writing if you get people this passionate about something, wether or not you like it.
    I think there's more to it.
    Sylvanas is one of the few major characters still in the game that come all the way from Warcraft 3 and maybe the only one left on Horde side. She was here for the whole time, and you can't just make her bad out of the blue. Imagine they do the same to Jaina or Thrall? Such major characters just can't end so abruptly. Garrosh was not a major character, he came and went, and I believe was not generally liked person, so I guess not a lot of people believed that Blizz would just copypaste everything from Garrosh.

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