Civil War inside Proud Boys Org

[PC2]

Civil unrest doesnt really take as many people as you seem to think it does.

Okay, there could be an increase in the amount of violent people and that could destabilize society. Personally I think there are way too many peace-loving Americans and that we'll beat any group of violent criminals regardless of whether they are Proud Boys or some other group.

No I dont see why someone who hasnt demonstrated any empathy for other people ever would be worried about things falling apart while they're sitting in front of their computer.

Nobody is more empathetic than myself. I want the absolute best for every person on the planet. I'm open to all new ideas on how to do that as long as the idea is not based on coercion.

You caring or not doesnt really change the road we are on.

You'd have to be more specific about what road you think we're on. Life will be similar in the future except things like education, tech, and wealth goes up as society makes progress.

Covid is a great distraction from the worsening climate ain't it.

The globe will get a bit warmer for many decades. Humans can adapt to it and thrive under many different climates but some species will go extinct and that sucks for them but there's no reason to think it's leading human civilization into a dystopia.

[PC2]

Lmao come off it. The smartest people dont go around saying they're the smartest.

I didn't say I'm more empathetic than anyone else. I'm 100% fine being equal in that regard. My point is that feeling empathy for one person is not a justification for using coercion/force against another person who you feel less empathy towards, such as a billionaire like Jeff Bezos.

Anyway I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me here. It looks like you're trying to convince yourself things are fine. It didnt work for covid but I'm sure this approach will work this time.

I'm not "trying" to convince myself, I really am genuinely confident in societal progress.

[Calfredd]

I'm not "trying" to convince myself, I really am genuinely confident in societal progress.

That's called Optimism Bias.

[Egomaniac]

Nobody is more empathetic than myself.

"I'm the least racist person here"

[Calfredd]

Nobody is more empathetic than myself.

I didn't say I'm more empathetic than anyone else.

*Cough* *cough*

[Mormolyce]

Nobody is more empathetic than myself.

Press X to doubt.

[Mekh]

I really am genuinely confident in societal progress.

Just because things progressed, you can't assume they continue to progress. Only a fool makes predictions on the future from past trends.

[Deja Thoris]

Only a fuel makes predictions on the future from past trends.

1 It's fool
2 lol

We have to travel 500km, we've been going for 3 hours and covered 300km, how long till we arrive?
Is it
a) 2 hours
b) It would be foolish to predict!

Jesus H Christ...

[Mekh]

1 It's fool
2 lol

We have to travel 500km, we've been going for 3 hours and covered 300km, how long till we arrive?
Is it
a) 2 hours
b) It would be foolish to predict!

Jesus H Christ...

1. Thanks for the correct.
2. You did see who I was quoting, right?

[PC2]

1 It's fool
2 lol

We have to travel 500km, we've been going for 3 hours and covered 300km, how long till we arrive?
Is it
a) 2 hours
b) It would be foolish to predict!

Jesus H Christ...

That can only work if the the physical system you're talking about does not include non-reducible/emergent phenomena, such as human choice and the evolution of society. The moment that human decision makers are responsible for the rules or causality in a system then you should expect variation and that the future has zero obligation to be a continuation of a historical pattern.

- - - Updated - - -

Just because things progressed, you can't assume they continue to progress. Only a fool makes predictions on the future from past trends.

No I don't assume that, it depends on the future of human effort and choices. Just because humanity has made progress in the last 200k years since we evolved that does not say anything whatsoever about whether we will continue to progress.

[Yadryonych]

One thing I liked about the Proud Boys is that they used to be Western chauvinists and not white chauvinists. That means they used to accept black chauvinists who shared their ideas and values. I guess they're reversing that now, how shameful. tsk tsk

Not "they" but a one specific Chapman (ironic name for a supposedly anti-semite) trying to conveniently derail the whole movement that is inconvenient for some

[Egomaniac]

We have to travel 500km, we've been going for 3 hours and covered 300km, how long till we arrive?
Is it
a) 2 hours
b) It would be foolish to predict!

Jesus H Christ...

See, you're already making an assumption that because you've averaged 100km/h so far...you will continue to average 100km/h. But any number of things could happen that lower that average. Things like:

Stopping for Gas.
Road Work.
Bathroom Break.
Detours.
An Accident.
Car Trouble.
Stopping to Eat.
Weather and Road Conditions.
Etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Not "they" but a one specific Chapman (ironic name for a supposedly anti-semite) trying to conveniently derail the whole movement that is inconvenient for some

One specific member that just so happens to be the former President of the Proud Boys. Let's not gloss over that little detail in your attempts to minimize this.

[Deja Thoris]

See, you're already making an assumption that because you've averaged 100km/h so far...you will continue to average 100km/h. But any number of things could happen that lower that average. Things like:

Stopping for Gas.
Road Work.
Bathroom Break.
Detours.
An Accident.
Car Trouble.
Stopping to Eat.
Weather and Road Conditions.
Etc.

Gosh, all of the things you mentioned are once again things we can predict based on the past, right?

[Endus]

See, you're already making an assumption that because you've averaged 100km/h so far...you will continue to average 100km/h. But any number of things could happen that lower that average. Things like:

Stopping for Gas.
Road Work.
Bathroom Break.
Detours.
An Accident.
Car Trouble.
Stopping to Eat.
Weather and Road Conditions.
Etc.

Any projection carries an implicitly understood "should conditions remain stable within the range under which prior data was determined".

If you know such a variance is coming up, that's an element that needs to be incorporated into a proper model. Both in terms of the likely delay, and the likelihood that such an event occurs. Basic modeling principles.

There's no need to repeat implicitly understood principles.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Dangerous organisation. I think the OP made the correct comparison to ISIS.

There is still 1 distinct difference though:
If Proud Boys chants something racist, everyone loses their shit and is fast to condone it and ring the shame bell.

When ISIS cuts of a head the only thing disturbing the silence are the people celebrating in the streets.

And I personally find that more worrying than few angry rednecks to say the least.

You aren't paying attention then. The only reason the cacophony of the proud boys drama reaches the ears of literally everyone is that people with morality shout out against the proud boys, and then the conservatives who totally aren't white supremacists jump in to defend the proud boys (who knows why they'd defend the proud boys, but they do). It creates a drama fight between the two factions that everyone hears about.

Meanwhile, whenever someone is decapitated across an ocean, there is a brief outcry from basically everyone, and because basically everyone agrees that it's bad, there's no big drama that carries on for weeks. Everyone says it's awful, and that's that.

There's also another reason why the proud boys are more concerning than ISIS: The Proud Boys exist on American (and to some extent, European) soil. The people who live here don't want white supremacist terrorists on their soil, living in their neighborhoods. There's almost no threat that ISIS would ever make any kind of significant foothold in the west, so people don't really worry about them as much.

Both are equally awful, and both should be brought to justice.

[beanman12345]

See, you're already making an assumption that because you've averaged 100km/h so far...you will continue to average 100km/h. But any number of things could happen that lower that average. Things like:

Stopping for Gas.
Road Work.
Bathroom Break.
Detours.
An Accident.
Car Trouble.
Stopping to Eat.
Weather and Road Conditions.
Etc.

Try to give that smart ass answer on any test with a teacher worth a damn, and watch them fail you.

[Egomaniac]

Gosh, all of the things you mentioned are once again things we can predict based on the past, right?

Some of those things can be predicted...but all of those things will change your ETA. You will no longer be able to meet that 2 hour eta unless you change the rate at which you are travelling.

Some of those things can not be predicted.

Can you predict that some other driver might fall asleep at the wheel, cross over into your lane, and crash headlong into your car? Or that some kid might run across the road...forcing you to swerve and crash into a tree?

[Cthulhu 2020]

I do take delight in one thing. Anyone remember when Democrats were scrambling a bit after the 2016 election, and this forum was flooded with posts about how the Democratic party was soon to end, because it would tear itself apart from in fighting? Literally every alt-right poster and alt-right sympathizer were just wringing their hands over how much the left was going to collapse on itself.

And it never did. It rallied stronger than ever before. And of course, now we have alt-right organizations that are actually tearing themselves apart. Maybe not the Republican party, but the ultra racist, chauvinistic groups who rose out of their caves when Trump blew their dog whistle, who pretended to not be racist, are now just shedding their fake personas and outright banishing anyone who doesn't pass their purity test for how racist one must be.

[Deja Thoris]

And back to the original point I quoted which is "only a fool makes predictions based on past trends".

We're always predicting based on past trends. Thats not foolish, its smart. Are you essentially saying the time to travel the 500km is impossible to predict because "reasons". Or are you saying we can make a smart prediction that can be undone due to unknowns.

Anyway, don't fixate on the example. I'm just saying smart people make predictions based on past trends.

[Endus]

And back to the original point I quoted which is "only a fool makes predictions based on past trends".

We're always predicting based on past trends. Thats not foolish, its smart. Are you essentially saying the time to travel the 500km is impossible to predict because "reasons". Or are you saying we can make a smart prediction that can be undone due to unknowns.

Anyway, don't fixate on the example. I'm just saying smart people make predictions based on past trends.

The worst part is, even the people arguing that you can't do that know they're wrong.

Otherwise, they'd have no hands. Because touching something hot wouldn't mean that the next time they touched it, it would burn them. They'd keep touching hot things until they burned their hands off.

Or language. Language itself is just patterns that allow us to determine meaning based on past trends of usage. And none of these people are nonverbal and noncommunicative.

They simply do not believe the horse shit they're trying to peddle. They're just doing it to sow false discord and doubt.