Civil War inside Proud Boys Org

[Felya]

Okay so I'm saying a person should only be loyal to the ideas they support and they should never be loyal to a political party. That's my two cents.

Does a political party have a set of ideas?

I said "purely exists as an idea". A person's whiteness or brownness is derived from genetic values and skin pigmentation which means it does not qualify because it does not exist purely as an idea.

What about this denotes superiority?

[Endus]

Okay so I'm saying a person should only be loyal to the ideas they support and they should never be loyal to a political party. That's my two cents.

Political parties represent ideas.

I already pointed that out. You're just gaslighting.

I said "purely exists as an idea". A person's whiteness or brownness is derived from genetic values and skin pigmentation which means it does not qualify because it does not exist purely as an idea.

Adding "purely" does not change anything. It's still nothing more than an idea.

Again, you're simply gaslighting.

[Mihalik]

No that's absurd. Anthropogenic climate change will only cause the average temperature to increase by a few degrees where as the sun expanding will create numbers that are 100x higher. You must be insane if you think they are comparable and that the means of civilization cannot function if the average temperature is only a few degrees higher.

Bro. I had this conversation with you a few dozen times, but you keep pushing this simplistic intellectually challenged dumbass argument.

Do you know what is the average temperature difference between the Sahara and Sicily? 5 fucking degrees Fahrenheit. That is the difference between decently liveable and upper edge of what is tolerable for human habitability.

The issue isn't with the average. The issue is with the EXTREMES OF THE AVERAGE. When your average increases by 2 degrees you get those heat waves that push every fucking hurricane into a category 5, it's what causes the droughts that wipe out every staple crop year after fucking year, what causes the fucking droughts that cause those fucking forest fires where you can't see the sky for 6 weeks a year in 5 states. It's those heat waves that light THE FUCKING ARCTIC ON FIRE FOR 3 MONTHS IN THE SUMMER and interrupt the winter ice formation cycle. It causes the fucking Red tides that kill every fucking living thing in entire continent sized swaths of ocean.

This has been explained to you over and over and over and over and over and over and over and but you keep fucking repeating this fucking dumb shit. PLEASE, AT LEAST UPDATE YOUR REPERTOIRE OF STUPID. Come up with something new please.

[PC2]

In order for ethno-nationalism to function, there has to be a way to identify in-group members so there has to be a collection of ideas concerning who is and isn't included. There are also is a collection of political ideas on how to achieve racial hegemony.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...te-nationalist

Right, I don't support identity-based tribalism when it comes to physical properties(e.g. skin color). It's the worst. If people want to form identity tribes around a pure idea such as liberty or equality then I have no problem with that.

I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here.

I was giving you my viewpoint. That's all I was trying to achieve.

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He's trying to muddy the waters to deflect for racists. The dude literally said he'd vote for Hitler.

Nah, you know that's 100% fictional. I want humanity to grow in numbers and I don't want to see millions of people murdered in war and genocide. Your claim that I secretly support Hitler and his agenda is utterly bewildering to me.

[Machismo]

Right, I don't support identity-based tribalism when it comes to physical properties(e.g. skin color). It's the worst. If people want to form identity tribes around a pure idea such as liberty or equality then I have no problem with that.



I was giving you my viewpoint. That's all I was trying to achieve.

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Nah, you know that's 100% fictional. I want humanity to grow in numbers and I don't want to see millions of people murdered in war and genocide. Your claim that I secretly support Hitler and his agenda is utterly bewildering to me.

Nah, it's not.

The Proud Boys are a bunch of violent racists.

You said you'd vote for Hitler, stop trying to blame me for the choices you make in life.

[PC2]

Nah, it's not.

The Proud Boys are a bunch of violent racists.

You said you'd vote for Hitler, stop trying to blame me for the choices you make in life.

No that is 100% fictional and imaginary. I think you may be paranoid or something...

For the Proud Boys I don't think most of them are violent but maybe most of them are racist. Society simply has to educate them about why racism is incorrect and that all people are equal and should be treated as individuals based on the merit of their behavior. The fastest way to do that is to have calm rational discussions with them and to not be so angry, paranoid, and hysterical.

[ati87]

No that is 100% fictional and imaginary. I think you may be paranoid or something...

For the Proud Boys I don't think most of them are violent but maybe most of them are racist. Society simply has to educate them about why racism is incorrect and that all people are equal and should be treated as individuals based on the merit of their behavior. The fastest way to do that is to have calm rational discussions with them and to not be so angry, paranoid, and hysterical.

If you still need a education on why racisme is bad then you are beyond saving. These people turned racist because they got the education.
And really low bar when you say "most of them aren't violent", that just is agreeing that a large numbers of them are.

[wunksta]

No that is 100% fictional and imaginary. I think you may be paranoid or something...

I think he's referencing this post.

For the Proud Boys I don't think most of them are violent but maybe most of them are racist. Society simply has to educate them about why racism is incorrect and that all people are equal and should be treated as individuals based on the merit of their behavior. The fastest way to do that is to have calm rational discussions with them and to not be so angry, paranoid, and hysterical.

It's funny when people say that others are acting paranoid or being hysterical. Like, how many times have people been warning about white nationalist behavior and been treated dismissively or gaslighted by saying it wasn't happening. Now we have several groups that are openly espousing these beliefs and there's people running for office with these beliefs. Also, these people want to have discussions, they want it to be on media and talk shows so they can spread their beliefs. If they are called out on it, they just label you paranoid or hysterical.

[PC2]

If you still need a education on why racisme is bad then you are beyond saving.

Do you think a felon who murdered someone is beyond saving or can they be rehabilitated? I think even felons who actually committed a crime can be rehabilitated so I certainly don't buy into the idea that racists in 2020 are "beyond saving". That attitude either comes from laziness or it could be because you feel too much anger and so you would rather just hate them instead of seeking improvement and reconciliation.

These people turned racist because they got the education.

I don't understand this. Education should refer to true knowledge so I don't understand how education could have turned them into racists.

And really low bar when you say "most of them aren't violent", that just is agreeing that a large numbers of them are.

Even if all of them are violent it still wouldn't change anything because you can't punish people until you get explicit evidence on each person. Of course you can "watch them" but our executive branch already does watch the people who are eminent threats.

[Endus]

No that is 100% fictional and imaginary. I think you may be paranoid or something...

For the Proud Boys I don't think most of them are violent but maybe most of them are racist. Society simply has to educate them about why racism is incorrect and that all people are equal and should be treated as individuals based on the merit of their behavior. The fastest way to do that is to have calm rational discussions with them and to not be so angry, paranoid, and hysterical.

If you could explain to racists why racism is stupid counterfactual bullshit, and they'd listen and change their minds as a result, there wouldn't be any racists. It would have ended back in the 19th Century. It didn't, because that flatly does not happen. It not only is not the fastest option, it isn't even an option to begin with. Racism is not adopted rationally, and thus cannot be deprogrammed through reason and logic.

Even people who are successful with deprogramming extremists know this. That's why they aim for emotional connections with these people; because those kinds of connections are the only hope they have of getting past their programming.

This is basic knowledge stuff, and you're disputing it. That's what gaslighting looks like. You're flatly incorrect about facts, here.

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Do you think a felon who murdered someone is beyond saving or can they be rehabilitated?

This is a dishonest false equivalence.

Rehabilitation is a desired outcome, but not an expectation, of incarceration. It's also not something that can be brought about by the State; it has to be desired by the convict, fundamentally. It's their process, not the State's.

Nobody's saying racists can't give up on their racism and rehabilitate themselves. We're disputing your nonsensical view that it's just a lack of education that leads to them being racist, and that just telling them racism is wrong is all that's needed to reform a racist. Which is lunacy.

[PC2]

I think he's referencing this post.

Yeah it's a hypothetical which is imaginary and fictional... From 2 years ago... But for whatever reason Machismo wants to believe I truly support Hitler.

[Egomaniac]

Nah, you know that's 100% fictional. I want humanity to grow in numbers and I don't want to see millions of people murdered in war and genocide. Your claim that I secretly support Hitler and his agenda is utterly bewildering to me.

He didn't say anything about your support for Hitler being "secret"

[JohnBrown1917]

Right, I don't support identity-based tribalism when it comes to physical properties(e.g. skin color). It's the worst. If people want to form identity tribes around a pure idea such as liberty or equality then I have no problem with that.



I was giving you my viewpoint. That's all I was trying to achieve.

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Nah, you know that's 100% fictional. I want humanity to grow in numbers and I don't want to see millions of people murdered in war and genocide. Your claim that I secretly support Hitler and his agenda is utterly bewildering to me.

Wanting humanity to grow by denying the reality of man-made climate change.

[Machismo]

No that is 100% fictional and imaginary. I think you may be paranoid or something...

For the Proud Boys I don't think most of them are violent but maybe most of them are racist. Society simply has to educate them about why racism is incorrect and that all people are equal and should be treated as individuals based on the merit of their behavior. The fastest way to do that is to have calm rational discussions with them and to not be so angry, paranoid, and hysterical.

Nope, you did it, and said you'd vote for him, so long as he said he would stop the genocide.

Stop deflecting for racist trash.

[PC2]

Nope, you did it, and said you'd vote for him, so long as he said he would stop the genocide.

Stop deflecting for racist trash.

My argument was that in politics you should focus on the policy values and ideas and not the person(e.g. Hitler). Even 2 years later you still refuse to focus on ideas and you're literally making this thread about me as a person. Ad hominem is when you direct arguments against a person instead of the actual position they are maintaining and the post that was linked above clearly shows that I was endorsing the opposite of Hitler's agenda.

[Machismo]

My argument was that in politics you should focus on the policy values and ideas and not the person(e.g. Hitler). Even 2 years later you still refuse to focus on ideas and you're literally making this thread about me as a person. Ad hominem is when you direct arguments against a person instead of the actual position they are maintaining and the post that was linked above clearly shows that I was endorsing the opposite of Hitler's agenda.

Sorry, your comment is clear as day.

You said it, deal with it.

It's amazing that you always seem to find yourself deflecting for racists.

[JohnBrown1917]

My argument was that in politics you should focus on the policy values and ideas and not the person(e.g. Hitler). Even 2 years later you still refuse to focus on ideas and you're literally making this thread about me as a person. Ad hominem is when you direct arguments against a person instead of the actual position they are maintaining and the post that was linked above clearly shows that I was endorsing the opposite of Hitler's agenda.

So you dont understand how Hitler being a huge jew hater and his history would affect his policies, and you'd pick him over the other candidates in the '32 german elections?

[Egomaniac]

I'd advise everyone involved to drop the whole "Hitler" thing. It's just gonna be a loop of accusation and denial that will only be stopped when it gets the thread closed.

[Santti]

I'd advise everyone involved to drop the whole "Hitler" thing. It's just gonna be a loop of accusation and denial that will only be stopped when it gets the thread closed.

I have a feeling this ludicrous gaslighting might even be his attempt to achieve just that.

[Felya]

My argument was that in politics you should focus on the policy values and ideas and not the person(e.g. Hitler). Even 2 years later you still refuse to focus on ideas and you're literally making this thread about me as a person. Ad hominem is when you direct arguments against a person instead of the actual position they are maintaining and the post that was linked above clearly shows that I was endorsing the opposite of Hitler's agenda.

What is a person, if not an amalgam of ideas? The reason Hitler the person is bad, is because he took his ideas on the road... Hitler, isn’t Hitler, without the ideas and values... that would be an unfunny Charlie Chaplin...

Edit: Why exactly do you think people are arguing against, when they bring up Hitler? Short people? People with funny mustaches? Populist orator? His art?