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  1. #1

    New Balance Eclipse mechanic too complicated?

    Hey Guys,

    i just configured my weak auras and rotation helper addon.
    And maybe im missing something, but it seems the new balance druid eclipse system is unnecessary complicated?

    # Eclipse Mechanic:
    - We have to cast 2 wrath now to get a lunar eclipse.
    - Lunar Eclipse active: we spam lunar strike until lunar eclipse is gone
    - Now 2 lunar strikes to get a solar eclipse etc

    We have to ALTERNATE the eclipses, but without any indications which eclipse was active last.

    The Problem: If i forget which eclipse was last active then i might cast a few wrong spells to get a new eclipse going.
    This can happen if the fight is very boring, aoe / single target changes or i get distracted by mechanics...

    I'm missing a Counter how many more wrath / lunar strikes i need to cast to get the next eclipse.
    Before this was visible by lunar / solar power or some other system.

    I can code some lua and fix all these problems,
    but to me this is the most complicated system of the past few years and not great for the default UI or new players.

    # EDIT:
    Thanks for pointing out, that there is a counter on the Wrath / Starfire ActionButton.

    I now also found the api function, which is GetSpellCount("Wrath")
    Last edited by GnomeEU; 2020-11-12 at 03:27 AM.

  2. #2
    ?

    you can see the charges for each and the built in auras show you which eclipse you're in. Have you even tried playing the class?

  3. #3
    games too easy, complain

    games too hard, complain

    will we ever win?

    stay tuned for the next patch

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfaheart View Post
    ?

    you can see the charges for each and the built in auras show you which eclipse you're in. Have you even tried playing the class?
    It shows me which eclipse im in, that doesnt help me if i forget which one was last. Do i have to cast wrath or lunar strike now to get the next one? i forgot.

    Please post your ui, i just start the fight, cast 1 wrath with the default ui. There's no counter that the next wrath would trigger an eclipse or anything.

  5. #5
    If you look at the action bar both wrath and starfire have a counter showing how often you have to cast one or the other to reach eclipse. It's the same for the standard ui. I checked.


    Last edited by Alkhan; 2020-11-12 at 03:07 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkhan View Post
    If you look at the action bar both wrath and starfire have a counter showing how often you have to cast one or the other to reach eclipse. It's the same for the standard ui. I checked.
    great, thank you, i didn't see that

  7. #7
    This might be trivial, but during leveling there was a bug related to the counter. If you use the instant lunar strike cast from getting melee attacked instantly after previous cast and it is the last one to cast, eclipse will not trigger. Nor will you have a counter which spell to cast for an eclipse? After several seconds it resets entirely, you can then cast either wrath or lunar strike. This situation sounds a bit complex, but it did happen relatively often...

  8. #8
    I like the rotation in concept but I do feel like it could stand to be communicated a bit better ingame; a more visible counter or buff for when you're going to enter would be nice, and also some sort of buff/counter for the starsurge buff

  9. #9
    My beef with balance after the changes is that it is a spec of compromise now where previously it was a strive for perfection kind of spec. Now you might want to make some sacrifices here and there, waste some resources here and there, just so that you can line everything up and do proper damage in your next eclipse. It's one of those aggressive and sweeping changes that might look subtle, but really set the tone for a spec.

    It's not a bad spec imo, just entirely different than what it was. I felt the same way about rogue when they overhauled all the specs from WoD to Legion where a lot of subtle things were lost, such as assassination gaining short rotational cooldowns where it previously was the only melee spec in the game really without one.

  10. #10
    Seeing this from the front page had me thinking it was some weird shoe thing I didn't know about.

  11. #11
    I'm new to balance so probably that's why i find it so annoying but how do you guys manage Sunfire/Moonfire dots so you don't waste time redotting in eclipse (Sunfire) seems to be the problem for me) i can't seem to find the sweet point, i always need to redott in the last 5/6 seconds of the eclipse and it feels such a waste, any tips?
    Last edited by kaelix1; 2020-11-15 at 07:22 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    I'm new to balance so probably that's why i find it so annoying but how do you guys manage Sunfire/Moonfire dots so you don't waste time redotting in eclipse (Sunfire) seems to be the problem for me) i can't seem to find the sweet point, i always need to redott in the last 5/6 seconds of the eclipse and it feels such a waste, any tips?
    Well you should always aim for a 100% uptime on both (or 3 if specced into stellar flare) dots if it's single target, no matter what eclipse you're in. Typically during pandemic window. The damage it will deal during its duration will compensate that wasted cds, and dots = more chance for shooting starts procs.

  13. #13
    Yes I feel it is needlessly complicated compared to other specs. In concept it isn't but when mythic raiding and I am watching all the other events creates a massive mental bandwidth issue. Coupled that it quite easy to be in the wrong eclipse.

    I would much preferred that eclipse was not tied to wrath and starfire. Wrath is suppose to be single target focus and star fire is suppose to be aoe focused. It feels so unitutive to be spamming thw opposite than what the situation calls for because thw eclipse cycle says too. There is no fun factor from it either.

    Couple this that the pay off of playing well doesn't reward big numbers. Starsurge feels weak now as well despite what numbers say.

    What does feel good is starfall. Its massive and present and does good damage. And with a talent really helps with mobility.

    Our cool down feels good too but it's 3 minutes. 2.6 minutes of not feeling good is too long. I really thing they should look at making it a 2 minute cooldown. But eclipse kind of takes the sales out of alignment since you get half of its affect all the time.

    Personally I would like us to have a 30 second CD off gdc button to press to activate eclipse. When in eclipse both starfire and wrath are empowered so we can cast the spell we choose. Or maybe the the CD is 1 minute but astral spends lower the cooldown so we have an interaction from both star fall and star surge to bring Eclipse back up. But it would give us control over whether to aoe or single target.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    Well you should always aim for a 100% uptime on both (or 3 if specced into stellar flare) dots if it's single target, no matter what eclipse you're in. Typically during pandemic window. The damage it will deal during its duration will compensate that wasted cds, and dots = more chance for shooting starts procs.
    I guess my annoyance came from a Moonkin video where the guy said that you should never refresh your dots during the eclipse, now from what i notice on dummies it is possible to do that but during an encounter where shit happens I saw it impossible, at the moment i refresh dots 4/3 sec before they expire but i was trying to see if its possible to do a rotation where you can refresh dots ouside eclipse window without losing the dots on the mob, so far i find it impossible

  15. #15
    The Unstoppable Force
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    Isn't the "new" Eclipse mechanic basically the one from MoP?

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Isn't the "new" Eclipse mechanic basically the one from MoP?
    No, it's closer to the WotLK one. We pretty much went full circle at this point.

  17. #17
    The Unstoppable Force
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, it's closer to the WotLK one. We pretty much went full circle at this point.
    Fair point, didn't really have a proper druid alt until Cataclysm.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  18. #18
    The Patient MCitra's Avatar
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    I think once you get the hang of it you will really enjoy it. I totally did a 360 turn on this and can honestly say its the most enjoyable rotation since forever.
    Legion was fun with legendarys so it's not easy to compare with but non legendarys i think this one is more fun and you have more controll over the outcome!
    I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work
    www.twitch.tv/mcitra

  19. #19
    I don't think it's complicated, rather, it's just irritating. Players should have options as to what to cast next, having to make decisions on what to prioritize. The Eclipse system basically kills that. It's not reactive, nor is it anticipatory. It's just routine. It's not hard to pull off. It's just hard to feel fulfilled whilst you do it.

  20. #20
    Balance is great, but the complete lack of control is a tad annoying in regard to whether you want to cleave or not. Other than that, moonkin is great fun atm!

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