Tyrande vs Sylvanas, where are we at

[Darkeon]

They'll be as strong as the writers want at the time. Power levels tend to mean shit when it comes to Warcraft due to mediocre storytellers.

[Soon-TM]

Horde bias at Blizz HQ

• Horde loses the third faction war in a row. Maybe not in a strictly military sense, but most certainly yes in a moral sense.
• Btw, every single military advantage obtained by the Horde is promptly reversed by the Alliance.
• Alliance super duper powerful figures continue to pile up, while the only more or less comparable Horde figure is turned into an even worse and more idiotic Garrosh 2.0
• Alliance leader is depicted as the epitome of everything that's good and holy in Azeroth - and beyond.
• As a matter of fact, Alliance leaders can never be wrong, and if they ever were, there is nothing to worry about, since the narrative simply ignores it and moves on.

But sure, keep talking about Horde Bias™

As for the subject at hand, of course Tyrande is going to kill Sylvanas. It is pretty obvious that Sylvie will be a raid boss, even if she could eventually get the Kerrigan treatment. But I don't think that writers are THAT daft.

[Charge me Doctor]

My main question is, is there any way of gauging power levels?

In books neither of them had any action iirc.
Tyrande was busy being a princess in distress with powerful god interventions.
Sylvanas was all about talking and doing things "off-screen", shorts like edge of night and dark mirror are mostly exposition. In tides of war and war crimes she didn't have any direct action iirc.

Then you have WC3:RoC and WC3:FT, judging by WC3:RoC Tyrande is definitely stronger, judging by WC3:FT they could be at similar power level, but Sylvanas is more about manipulation and betrayal, other than raw power, while Tyrande was acting more feisty during NE campaign... until she got kidnapped again. In WoW it's really hard to judge, since none of them were that active until recent time, and judging by cinematics and in-game progression i'd certainly vouch for Tyrande being stronger than Sylvanas in terms of raw power.

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• Alliance super duper powerful figures continue to pile up, while the only more or less comparable Horde figure is turned into an even worse and more idiotic Garrosh 2.0

Don't you find it weird, that alliance have all these "super duper powerful figures", but still lose almost all engagements? Malfurion alone could stop all that Teldrassil non-sense, but for some reason he didn't.

There is no "bias" towards any side, they try to make story "balanced", which is so damn annoying, it's like writers just move forwards without considering results of previous events

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What Horde bias?

It have been blatant evident that Blizzard have always favored Alliance.
Alliance leaders killed: Varian - Allied: Zero
Horde leader killed: Baine, Garrosh, Vol'jin - Allied: Rastakhan

Leaders removed from power without dying:
Alliance: Zero
Horde: Garrosh, Thrall, Sylvanas

High ranking NPCs turned traitor:
Alliance: Zero
Horde: Varok Saurfang, (almost) Lorthemar

Neutral NPCs who acted agains a faction without repercussions:
Alliance: Zero
Horde: Jaina

Grand total: Alliance 1 - Horde 9 (as Garrosh is actually mentioned twice)

Numbers don't lie!

Now go back and start counting from the start, and not from the end. You may remember characters, like, Uther, Terenas, Garithos, Daelin (Jaina's father), Antonidas, Bolvar, Benedictus, Maraad, Fandral, O'ros. Not counting "dead" characters, but "switched allegiance" - Magni, Khadgar, Malfurion, Tirion, Yrel, Kel’Thuzad, Medivh, a whole bunch of high elves.
See how easy this list is swinging from one side to another depending on when you start counting.

[deenman]

Hard to say,we didnt really see tyrande doing...much...moonfire some puppers and beat a hunter in melee combat (lol)...uhm...pretty sure she didnt need the night warrior elune powers to do that,tyrande is an ancient badass warrior...going against a former normal human with some extra undead juice isnt much for her

The comparison with sylvanas and saurfang isnt great either,tyrande just smacked him and cut his head,syvanas kamehamehad him to the afterlife

Simply put,i dont think? we know enough about her new powers to judge the scaling,gonna have to wait and see

But lets be honest....no way blizz is gonna have sylvanas just be beaten by tyrande,thats not alowed,she will be a raid boss and at the end she easily escapes

Also i would not put it passed them to pull an illidan on us with her...like...aha! she KNEW the jailor was a danger so she pretends to aid him so she can kill him at the end!! shes gonna be illidan AND tirion at the end delivering the final blow!!...burning all those innocent kids alive was all worth it for this!! because we all know the end justifies the means! ANY means!

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• Horde loses the third faction war in a row. Maybe not in a strictly military sense, but most certainly yes in a moral sense.
• Btw, every single military advantage obtained by the Horde is promptly reversed by the Alliance.
• Alliance super duper powerful figures continue to pile up, while the only more or less comparable Horde figure is turned into an even worse and more idiotic Garrosh 2.0
• Alliance leader is depicted as the epitome of everything that's good and holy in Azeroth - and beyond.
• As a matter of fact, Alliance leaders can never be wrong, and if they ever were, there is nothing to worry about, since the narrative simply ignores it and moves on.

But sure, keep talking about Horde Bias™

As for the subject at hand, of course Tyrande is going to kill Sylvanas. It is pretty obvious that Sylvie will be a raid boss, even if she could eventually get the Kerrigan treatment. But I don't think that writers are THAT daft.

Oh you think they cant?they made it very clear that sylvanas isnt going to be a garrosh,i am 120% sure they will pull a double wamy with her,she will be illidan AND tirion in one,illidan in the sense that she was always planing on betraying the jailor from within,and tirion because she will likely do the killing blow in the encounter with him,read me now quote me later

[Whitedragon]

Well you see Tyrande can probably be seen as the protagonist in this story so starting out she is much stronger than base Sylvanas, but sadly she is 3 days away mid dimension travel so, Anduin, Gen, and mekatork will have to battle her instead. Mekatork doesn't really stand any chance but he will have one trick up his sleeve that will mostly catch Sylvanas off guard, though it won't do any real damage, but it will succeed in really pissing her off. after that has happened Gen will go toe to toe with Sylvanas for a bit before getting curb stomped but just before he dies, Anduin jumps in with a mystical power that is completely unreliable and pulls Sylvanas away for a bit, just as that power is about to fail Malfurion shows up and reveals that he is actually stronger then base Sylvanas.

Sylvanas not liking the fact that shes now falling behind sheds her weak elf form and turns into Super buff manly Sylvanas which is on equal footing with Malf, they battle like this for a bit, but Sylvanas reveals she can go even further, smirking she transforms into a xenomorph from the alien series which is far more powerful then Malf, but this form is hard to animate in action so she quickly transforms into Very nude looking Sylvanas who shatters any hope of victory....

meanwhile while all of that is going on Gazlow shows up and it is revealed that he can heal people. Gazlow heals Gen and Meka, but Sylvanas notices and blows him up.

Saddened by this Gen reveals that this really made him angry, which gave him a power boost and now he is really ready to beat the snot out of Sylvanas! Gen was not ready to beat the snot out of Sylvanas and gets beaten to a pulp... Just as all hope seems lost Tyranda finally makes it to the maw! Gen goes on a expositional dump about how Tryanda is the legendary night worrier, Sylvanas sinkers and shoots Gen killing him.

Tyranda and Sylvanas go on fighting for some time, but Sylvanas seems to have the edge So tyranda decides to use her ultimate attack The soul bomb, an Anima sphere gathered from all the souls of the shadowlands! this will take some time though... luckily Malf shows up again and says he will hold Syl off as long as he can. Tyranda says she needs about 5 minutes... and considering how fast Sylvanas beat the tar out of him last time... you know what he's got this go get her malf!

5 minutes later Malf lies broken and beaten, but the soul bomb is ready. It's MASIVE! luckily Sylvanas never looked up until now, and is unable to avoid the ultimate attack. As the dust settles everyone is joyous that the battle is over, but ohh no! Sylvanas survived and blows up mekatork just cuz!

This really pisses of Tyranda who in a fit of extrema sorrow and anger, Transforms into the Night warrior avatar of vengeance! Not liking this Sylvanas uses her powers to destabilize the shadowlands which will eventually... sometime... 10 minutes tops... maybe? destroy the shadowlands!!! 5 Hours later Night warrior avatar of vengeance Tyranda and ultra buff almost nude %100 Sylvans are still fighting but as it turns out the people who die in shadowlands actually just end up back in shadowlands so Gazlow, Gen, Anduin (but not mekatork for some reason) gather back up and make a wish on thralls balls to escape the shadowlands with everyone but Tyranda and Sylvanas back to Azeroth.

Just 4 minutes before the Shadowlands explodes (And we mean it this time) Sylvanas grows desperate and tries one more sneaky attack to finish the fight, the razor pizzas of DOOM! Sadly Sylvans did not read the tool tip on the spell that explains that the razor Pizzas can cause friendly fire damage, and cuts herself to bits... with just seconds to spare Tryanda steals a broker space ship and flees the shadowlands for good thus ending the expansion.

...

So over all I would say Tyranda is at least at a power level of 9010 and Sylvanas's learns that the truest power of all is the power of friendship and plot armor! Also her fans can rest easy she will show back up in a few expansions as GOLDEN ultra buff almost nude %100 Sylvanas!

[FuxieDK]

In books neither of them had any action iirc.
Tyrande was busy being a princess in distress with powerful god interventions.
Sylvanas was all about talking and doing things "off-screen", shorts like edge of night and dark mirror are mostly exposition. In tides of war and war crimes she didn't have any direct action iirc.

Then you have WC3:RoC and WC3:FT, judging by WC3:RoC Tyrande is definitely stronger, judging by WC3:FT they could be at similar power level, but Sylvanas is more about manipulation and betrayal, other than raw power, while Tyrande was acting more feisty during NE campaign... until she got kidnapped again. In WoW it's really hard to judge, since none of them were that active until recent time, and judging by cinematics and in-game progression i'd certainly vouch for Tyrande being stronger than Sylvanas in terms of raw power.

- - - Updated - - -


Don't you find it weird, that alliance have all these "super duper powerful figures", but still lose almost all engagements? Malfurion alone could stop all that Teldrassil non-sense, but for some reason he didn't.

There is no "bias" towards any side, they try to make story "balanced", which is so damn annoying, it's like writers just move forwards without considering results of previous events

- - - Updated - - -



Now go back and start counting from the start, and not from the end. You may remember characters, like, Uther, Terenas, Garithos, Daelin (Jaina's father), Antonidas, Bolvar, Benedictus, Maraad, Fandral, O'ros. Not counting "dead" characters, but "switched allegiance" - Magni, Khadgar, Malfurion, Tirion, Yrel, Kel’Thuzad, Medivh, a whole bunch of high elves.
See how easy this list is swinging from one side to another depending on when you start counting.

With a few exceptions, none of those are from WoW, but long before.

And even fewer of them are race/faction leaders or major NPCS.

[Varodoc]

Funny, because that LITERALLY describes Sylvanas' tragedy up to her death from Arthas. If it's good enough for her, it's good enough for Tyrande. The vicious cycle of revenge and hatred is the most used trope in Warcraft, highlighting how misery begets misery. Very Shakespearean and appropriate if Tyrande falls into the same trap and gets villain-batted by going too far down the rabbit hole. Bonus points if we get lessons on how borrowing power from foreign entities and objects is also a bad idea; maybe they'll take that a step further and shit on your waifu Alleria who will no doubt become a loot pinata one day for us as well.

"Up to her death from Arthas"

Did you forget how there are 20 years of development after that?

Thankfully you don't write for Blizzard, because I can already tell you would completely ignore the abuses a woman suffered just to turn her into a villain, because how dare a woman feel anger towards those who robbed her of everything! I bet you also enjoyed the final season of Game of Thrones.

[darkoms]

"Up to her death from Arthas"

Did you forget how there are 20 years of development after that?

Thankfully you don't write for Blizzard, because I can already tell you would completely ignore the abuses a woman suffered just to turn her into a villain, because how dare a woman feel anger towards those who robbed her of everything! I bet you also enjoyed the final season of Game of Thrones.

Easy, dude, easy

[Varodoc]

Easy, dude, easy

I know Tyrande won't become evil, because that's just not a story Blizzard would tell (and they said Jaina was not evil in 2017, when they were already presenting BfA, so Metzen and Kosak were already gone), but it's the general mentality that riles me up.

This is usually used as a meme, but in this case, Tyrande literally did nothing wrong. Even if you're a Horde fanboy who somehow thinks genocide is worthy retribution for "Stormheim" and the "10 miners of Silithus", Tyrande had nothing to do with either strike against the Horde. She literally did nothing wrong, and still lost everything. How on earth anyone could wish that such a character becomes the villain is beyond me...

Regardless her current development in Shadowlands is clearly similar to Jaina's in BfA. We'll be helping her face her trauma from Teldrassil as well as keep the powers of Elune under control.

This should tell you who's stronger between Tyrande and Sylvanas, really. Tyrande literally cannot control her powers, they are so potent that they could end up killing her. That's what happens when you put the power of a God inside a mortal body.

[Combatbulter]

Tyrande was also able to "neutralize" the Mawsworn assailants sent her way where none of the other faction leaders taken by the Jailer were, including Jaina Proudmoore herself. Several NPC's have commented on her growing power as the Night Warrior.

Who fall like flies later on in the maw, killing maw entities is a very bad metric to measure anything, they are fodder.

[Moonrage]

What Horde bias?

It have been blatant evident that Blizzard have always favored Alliance.
Alliance leaders killed: Varian - Allied: Zero
Horde leader killed: Baine, Garrosh, Vol'jin - Allied: Rastakhan

What about Daelin Proudmoore, Anasterian Sunstrider, Terenas Menethil, Antonidas, Liam Greymane (not a leader but the son of a leader)? They don't count?

Leaders removed from power without dying:
Alliance: Zero
Horde: Garrosh, Thrall, Sylvanas

How was Thrall removed? He willingly left so Garrosh could become warchief.

High ranking NPCs turned traitor:
Alliance: Zero
Horde: Varok Saurfang, (almost) Lorthemar

You forgot about Archbishop Benedictus and Fandral Staghelm.

Neutral NPCs who acted agains a faction without repercussions:
Alliance: Zero
Horde: Jaina

Jaina was never neutral, she was always aligned with the Alliance. Not to mention all Alliance characters that suddenly became Horde: Magni, Khadgar, Tirion,...

[Candy Cough]

After having watched the cinematic where Tyrande deals with Nathanos it got me wondering, how evenly matched are Tyrande and Sylvanas at this point?
Obviously Tyrande would never win in a fight against Sylvanas because of Horde bias at Blizz HQ, but would Tyrande even stand a chance against
SSJ Sylvanas if we cast that bias aside?

My main question is, is there any way of gauging power levels? One character being empowered by Elune, another by a being that is on the level of titans, what can we deduct from this?

Lmao imagine still thinking there is horde bias after BFA. The alliance has just shat on the horde for multiple expansions

If you need proof, consider that the horde lost Rastakhan, Voljin, Sylvanas, Saurfang and saurfang, while mekkatorque couldnt even die. A gnome. No lets turn him into a badass ironman instead and kill some more horde leaders.

Hell even varian went out like a badass when voljin died to a trash mob and doesent even have a tomb

Horde bias indeed

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In books neither of them had any action iirc.
Tyrande was busy being a princess in distress with powerful god interventions.
Sylvanas was all about talking and doing things "off-screen", shorts like edge of night and dark mirror are mostly exposition. In tides of war and war crimes she didn't have any direct action iirc.

Then you have WC3:RoC and WC3:FT, judging by WC3:RoC Tyrande is definitely stronger, judging by WC3:FT they could be at similar power level, but Sylvanas is more about manipulation and betrayal, other than raw power, while Tyrande was acting more feisty during NE campaign... until she got kidnapped again. In WoW it's really hard to judge, since none of them were that active until recent time, and judging by cinematics and in-game progression i'd certainly vouch for Tyrande being stronger than Sylvanas in terms of raw power.

- - - Updated - - -


Don't you find it weird, that alliance have all these "super duper powerful figures", but still lose almost all engagements? Malfurion alone could stop all that Teldrassil non-sense, but for some reason he didn't.

There is no "bias" towards any side, they try to make story "balanced", which is so damn annoying, it's like writers just move forwards without considering results of previous events

- - - Updated - - -



Now go back and start counting from the start, and not from the end. You may remember characters, like, Uther, Terenas, Garithos, Daelin (Jaina's father), Antonidas, Bolvar, Benedictus, Maraad, Fandral, O'ros. Not counting "dead" characters, but "switched allegiance" - Magni, Khadgar, Malfurion, Tirion, Yrel, Kel’Thuzad, Medivh, a whole bunch of high elves.
See how easy this list is swinging from one side to another depending on when you start counting.

Ok lets go from the start

Blackhand, Kaelthas, Kargath. Nerzhul, Kilrogg, Malkorok, Nazgrim, Grom, Durotan, Draka, doomhammer, guldan, zuljin, Teron gorefiend, Chogall, Varimathras and broxigar

I could name even more if youd like

Horde has ONE character still alive from the first/second war that being eitrigg, while the alliance still has, Turalyon, council of three hammers, vereesa, alleria, dannath trollbane, genn greymane...

Oh look the four horsemen has 3 alliance characters, and 1 horde thats there purely for fan service

[Dazmalak]

I know Tyrande won't become evil, because that's just not a story Blizzard would tell (and they said Jaina was not evil in 2017, when they were already presenting BfA, so Metzen and Kosak were already gone), but it's the general mentality that riles me up.

This is usually used as a meme, but in this case, Tyrande literally did nothing wrong. Even if you're a Horde fanboy who somehow thinks genocide is worthy retribution for "Stormheim" and the "10 miners of Silithus", Tyrande had nothing to do with either strike against the Horde. She literally did nothing wrong, and still lost everything. How on earth anyone could wish that such a character becomes the villain is beyond me...

Regardless her current development in Shadowlands is clearly similar to Jaina's in BfA. We'll be helping her face her trauma from Teldrassil as well as keep the powers of Elune under control.

This should tell you who's stronger between Tyrande and Sylvanas, really. Tyrande literally cannot control her powers, they are so potent that they could end up killing her. That's what happens when you put the power of a God inside a mortal body.

As I already stated, the whole "playing with fire" lesson is ever present throughout Warcraft's long history. It isn't a question of who "deserves" to be a villain, it's just what happens when you let outside entities influence you regardless of the reasons a character chooses to do so. Azshara was seduced by the power and promises of both the Legion and N'Zoth. Arthas was trying his best to stop a plague from turning his people into zombies and winds up becoming the Lich King. Kiljaeden and Archimonde nearly damned their entire race after giving in to Sargeras. Ditto to Gul'dan and the orcs. Sylvanas has gone through multiple personalities over Warcraft's history, and now she's getting power from the Jailer and would appear to be a villain. We haven't seen what twisted Yrel into a murderous zealot exactly, but she went from plucky hero to genocidal "convert or die" while we were away from Draenor in service of the Light. The next most obvious characters that fall into this category are Tyrande and Alleria. If you fail to learn from the past, you are doomed to repeat it; I don't think these two are any exception.

Do you discount all of those character's personal trauma, struggles, losses, anger, etc? Sure a lot of them were never good to begin with, but Arthas, Sylvanas, and Yrel were. I don't really think any of them "deserved" their fates, but once you start dabbling in cosmic powers, you are on the road to being a villain. It is the plot device that keeps WoW going. God forbid an Alliance character in the modern timeline actually succumb to it, though.

For the record, I think most of WoW's writing is utter shit. I hate the very trope I described above because it's just been done to absolute death.

As far as the ending of GoT...I liked and understood the tragedy that was Daenerys' character. I liked the concept of the ending and agreed with most of it, but thought the execution was very poor (but I think the writing took a drastic downturn after season 4 anyway). They could have used another season to show that poor Dany was indeed a tyrant all along.

OT: Their power levels are irrelevant because we'll be smacking purples out of their corpses eventually and nothing stands between the "champion" and their desire for better loot.

[Angrie]

[QUOTE=darkoms;52809890]

SPOILER, SERIOUSLY, CAMPAIGN SPOILER:

In the Night Fae campaign you seek the help of another being (we don't know who they were in life because of how Ardenweld works)who was the Night Warrior. Tyrande is almost "feral" in the Shadowlands and part of the story is to try to bring her back to reality - which fails. Since the Night Warrior "being" is in the shadowlands, it's obvious that the Night Warrior is not stronger than Sylvanas juiced by the Jailer. At the start of the SL expansion, Tyrande is also stuck in the maw with us, so she can't just tear a seam and traverse the SL.
Can anyone explain to me the logic behind this post? What's the point? The Night Warrior go to Shadowlands, so Sylvanas is stronger than Tyrande ???

Tyrande is not the first or only night warrior. She does plays a pivotal role in Shadowlands however.
She is not as powerful as Sylvanas or the jailer. Play the game, read the quests and campaign, a previous night warrior states Tyrande will lose, albeit in a lot more words and quests. What's so hard to understand? Do we need a cinematic to explain this for you?

[Strawberry]

Out of all the characters in the horde/alliance, Tyrande is the last one I want to see beat Sylvanas. I'm tired of night elf bullshit and their Elune worship.

[Sithalos]

It depends solely on who's plot armor falls off first.

[darkoms]

[QUOTE=Angrie;52810898]

Tyrande is not the first or only night warrior. She does plays a pivotal role in Shadowlands however.
She is not as powerful as Sylvanas or the jailer. Play the game, read the quests and campaign, a previous night warrior states Tyrande will lose, albeit in a lot more words and quests. What's so hard to understand? Do we need a cinematic to explain this for you?

If she not first Night Warrior she is weaker than Sylvanas? What the logic????

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

High ranking NPCs turned traitor:
Alliance: Zero

Archbishop Benedictus
Fandral Staghelm

[cocomen2]

[QUOTE=darkoms;52811669]

If she not first Night Warrior she is weaker than Sylvanas? What the logic????

Silvy buffed, while Tyrande Night Warrior feels more like curse (that comes with madness).


TBH when all theories that Elune is old god gotta be true.Crossed fingers

[Soon-TM]

Archbishop Benedictus
Fandral Staghelm

Consequences for Horde: villain batting

Consequences for Alliance: <none>