Tyrande vs Sylvanas, where are we at

[Angrie]

If there is one NPC who repeatedly phophesies that Tyrande will die, it strongly means she won't, though.

Every time someone has ever said something was impossible or won't happen, it definitely was possible or had happened in the end. That's what standard storytelling does. "You cannot contain this power!!! It will overwhelm you !!!!" 100% ends up with you containing this power.

Pretty sure all you fanboys need to accept Tyrande won't lol She brought the Avatar of Life to the land of death, and you think she's going to have some kind of effect? Think of it this way, the Avatar of Sargaras is brought infront of the Pantheon.... what good is an avatar against and actual titan? NONE. Elune (Sargaras) herself could stand in the Shadowlands and still, likely have no effect on the systems of death; see Legion's end. What makes you think an AVATAR is going to do anything useful?

As i said previously, the NightWarrior is likely part of the plan. Death could use the Night Warrior as an endless battery of anima - either Tyrande's chosen fate to fix the Shadowlands, see Illidan. Or forced, see jailer. I can totally see the Jailer using Tyrande as a way to weaken Elune/life.

I also see Sylvanas being tricked by the Jailer, being damned as the role of the jailer. After fully draining Elune, the Jailer then comes to Azeroth in BFA2 (with the new class Necromancers). All of Azeroth becomes a wasteland of death and we have to go to the Emerald Dream and to reverse it, reshaping the world in the same way as Cataclysm. It's almost as if history is repeating itself...Legion comes(BC/Legion), Fight Undead(wotlk, SL), change the landscape (Cata, BFA2)

[Varodoc]

Our characters are top army commanders and elite fighters on their own, who for some reason always take the backseat to a handful of pompous and/or cringey morons who spend most of their lives twiddling their thumbs, despite the massive spotlight.

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Given how tweets and offline remarks are by no means official marketing, Blizz is 100% off the hook in that regard. Looks like your void powers couldn't grasp that part

And it looks like your omniscient powers missed my point.

I'm asking you to show me any miserable ounce of evidence you can find that proves Blizzard "lied" about the Burning of Teldrassil.

You didn't really think I'd take your word for it, did you?

[Soon-TM]

Come on now. Its really not necessary to lie like that.

"It is not what it seems! There may be a Plot Twist™!"... And the only plot twist was that there was no plot twist at all LMAO.

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And it looks like your omniscient powers missed my point.

I'm asking you to show me any miserable ounce of evidence you can find that proves Blizzard "lied" about the Burning of Teldrassil.

You didn't really think I'd take your word for it, did you?

I'm not going to dig through tweets of 2+ years ago just to please a random void elf LARP'er on the internet. Especially when I don't give a &$#@ about you believing me or not lol.

[Varodoc]

"It is not what it seems! There may be a Plot Twist™!"... And the only plot twist was that there was no plot twist at all LMAO.

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I'm not going to dig through tweets of 2+ years ago just to please a random void elf LARP'er on the internet. Especially when I don't give a &$#@ about you believing me or not lol.

That is exactly the kind of toxic cop out I was expecting.

If you spread false rumours and baseless accusations against Blizzard, you will be challenged on it. It's simple.

[jpch]

Pretty sure all you fanboys need to accept Tyrande won't lol She brought the Avatar of Life to the land of death, and you think she's going to have some kind of effect? Think of it this way, the Avatar of Sargaras is brought infront of the Pantheon.... what good is an avatar against and actual titan? NONE. Elune (Sargaras) herself could stand in the Shadowlands and still, likely have no effect on the systems of death; see Legion's end. What makes you think an AVATAR is going to do anything useful?

As i said previously, the NightWarrior is likely part of the plan. Death could use the Night Warrior as an endless battery of anima - either Tyrande's chosen fate to fix the Shadowlands, see Illidan. Or forced, see jailer. I can totally see the Jailer using Tyrande as a way to weaken Elune/life.

We have no way of being certain who is more powerful now, but one thing is certain, Tyrande and Sylvanas are now the most powerful mortals from Azeroth.
There were so many assumptions and lore fallacies in your post, you are under the impression that the system of death and the Shadowlands are invulnerable.

1- Elune is in no way limited to "Life", nor is Tyrande an avatar of "Life". Elune is still a mysterious entity that has used Light/void/arcane and even elemental abilities. Her objectives and intentions are unclear.
2- Tyrande in Shadowlands is unleashing havoc in the Maw, killing many of their followers, and most probably be denting the Jailor/Sylvanas' plans.
3- The Night Warrior is in no way tied to the Jailors plan, since Tyrande became NW after the burning of Teldrassil, and the burning was not part of Sylvanas' plan if you read the novel a "Good War." Sylvanas wanted to kill Malfurion, when Tyrande took him away, Sylvanas was enraged by Saurfang and Delarin and burnt Teldrassil.
You are playing 4D chess with Sylvanas, the Jailor, and the plot. If by any horrid mistake what you predicted came true, I can assure you the expansion will flop way worse than WOD did.

[Feanoro]

That's precisely the point. Saying "omg Ally has also had characters turned into raid bosses", as some Ally fans have said ITT is fundamentally disingenuous.

I know I'm wasting my time, but... consider this. Alliance fans are routinely mocked for the "boring" "goody two shoes" "hero fantasy" faction. The Horde fans consist of:

A) WC3: Savage, take no shit, overall good but rough around the edges
B) WC1 - 2: Anyone who's not us gets the woodchipper and we'll laugh while the blood spatters
C) Hipster: Wants to be WC1-2, but don't you DARE call us evil

The problem isn't the Alliance, who've had any actual story telling long since expunged in favor of Good Humans and Pals. The problem is the Horde is always "at a crossroads" with Blizz trying to please three groups who will NEVER agree on the Horde's identity. To please two of the groups, they curbstomp the Alliance, who naturally want to fight back. The endgame for B and C is the Alliance's destruction, which ain't gonna happen for business reasons.

Instead of blaming Alliance fans, raise hell at Blizzard.

[Unholyground]

If I had to guess Elune is likely the sister of Zovaal and the first ones.

[TigTone]

I think blizzard is writing the power of the night warrior as blessing and a curse.

And the only way to clear the curse is to eliminate the reason for using the ritual of night warrior. In this case for Tyrande it is Sylvanas.

As others has posted, I think blizzard is going to have Tyrande fight Sylvanas. Because her power keeps growing just like Sylvanas power has kept growing.

Also, There is a chance we don’t get to fight her directly.

Or something like Tyrande uses the night warrior power to break Sylvanas connection with Zovaal and then we finish the job by shattering her body and banishing her banshee soul.

[Hero2Zer0]

I love how everyone's going on about how much stronger Tyrande has become after killing Nathanos, but all we saw her do in that cutscene was moonfire two wolves and duel a corpse already injured by an arrow

Big fucken deal

So what your saying is Slyvanas should be really easy for tyrande because she is already a corpse? Did you forget she shot the fuckin arrow at him?

[LarryFromHumanResources]

So what your saying is Slyvanas should be really easy for tyrande because she is already a corpse? Did you forget she shot the fuckin arrow at him?

I-.. How was -that- what you got out of my post?

I'm saying that what she did wasn't impressive. She moonfired two wolves, shot an arrow at someone that had no way of seeing it coming, and then she beat said wounded person, well done.

The "corpse" part was literally the least important part of the post.

[darkoms]

Well, she ran this raid as she initially thought. She decided to burn the tree because the night elf telling her she can't kill hope made her realize she actually could do something better than what she planned.

Not because she was triggered by words. These words have just triggered a better way for her to achieve her goals.

Ahahahahaha, you are funny)

[Hero2Zer0]

I-.. How was -that- what you got out of my post?

I'm saying that what she did wasn't impressive. She moonfired two wolves, shot an arrow at someone that had no way of seeing it coming, and then she beat said wounded person, well done.

The "corpse" part was literally the least important part of the post.

I was making fun of your post, so what you're saying is tyrande just has to shoot arrows without slyvanas seeing her and she wins. Also Tyrande was the only one to eliminate her captors, and then go and 2 shot Nathanos taking no damage vs Slyvanas getting cut before killing Saurfang.

[Angrie]

We have no way of being certain who is more powerful now, but one thing is certain, Tyrande and Sylvanas are now the most powerful mortals from Azeroth.
There were so many assumptions and lore fallacies in your post, you are under the impression that the system of death and the Shadowlands are invulnerable.

1- Elune is in no way limited to "Life", nor is Tyrande an avatar of "Life". Elune is still a mysterious entity that has used Light/void/arcane and even elemental abilities. Her objectives and intentions are unclear.
2- Tyrande in Shadowlands is unleashing havoc in the Maw, killing many of their followers, and most probably be denting the Jailor/Sylvanas' plans.
3- The Night Warrior is in no way tied to the Jailors plan, since Tyrande became NW after the burning of Teldrassil, and the burning was not part of Sylvanas' plan if you read the novel a "Good War." Sylvanas wanted to kill Malfurion, when Tyrande took him away, Sylvanas was enraged by Saurfang and Delarin and burnt Teldrassil.
You are playing 4D chess with Sylvanas, the Jailor, and the plot. If by any horrid mistake what you predicted came true, I can assure you the expansion will flop way worse than WOD did.

1. I say she is life because the Tears of Elune are basically the emerald dream. If you know about the dream and druids, it's all about life. Elune is peace, harmony. The Night Warrior is her wrath. I believe the pillar is a tear because the dream can never be a reality (qq), world/cosmos of peace, so ya she's basically life.
2. Tyrande struggles to kill an amalgamation with us in Torghast and she also leaves the maw. So i don't think we or her are that powerful.
3. If Sylvanas killed Malfurion, the worst WoW character ever, you don't think she would have evoked the Night Warrior???? I'm pretty sure she would have. However, I think you're right, I think the Jailer wanted Malfurion's soul. As the first mortal druid, i think he was a needed piece of the puzzle.

You know, just cause i said it, doesn't mean i agree with it. Trying to be snarky and attempt to insult me with your "it'll flop" comment really has no effect, i'm not affiliated with the game... so you were clearly trolling with that comment. I take it as a compliment that you see my view as 4D chess, because Blizzard has literally been playing it since the end of WoD. In all honesty, the game will likely flop for most people anyways when BC comes out.

[Engal]

Where is the source?

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316807....ser-elune-sylv

Outside of the source linked above, we know several things about Elune from Shadowlands. It's not sourced, but its logical description narrowing the possibilities of her nature.


1- Her influence spans the entire universe, she made another night warrior on another world. So she can act on different worlds without being physically there. So she isn't an old god, nor a titan, nor a death entity.
2- Xal called her an " upstart goddess "
3- In the old RPG books (shadow and Light) she was the highest level entity existing ( way above the titans, sargeras, old gods and wild gods )
4- She can manipulate different kind of magic : Holy ( healing ) , Arcane ( moonfire , moonspell etc ) , Void ( night warrior's infusion ) , Life ( regrowing stuff, nature link), Death ( weaving Ysera's soul ) , you basically have all the cosmology powers and she can use them all outside fel magic. So she's defo not a Fel entity, nor a Light Lord.
5- Elune apparently created the Naaru. The tear of Elune worked on X'era's heart. Considering the Naaru were created, according to Kadghar , during the " great Ordering of Light and Shadow ", and that period was the first step of the cosmos' creation ( described in the firsts paragraph of Chronicles ) we can suppose it's also the era of the First Ones. During this Era, the naaru, the titans, and the shadowlands did not exists yet, they were created during or right after. which means she's older than the titans and the Naaru .

Since she created the Naaru who are one of the cosmos forces, and that the titans, for example, Eonar, reveres her, probably made a Pillar of Creation with her power and her name, and took refuge in Elunaria on the Elarian sanctuary, you can safely assume that Elune is above the titans and the Naaru.

Tyrande is actually the avatar of a being who is above the titans and who created the Naaru. Supposedly in the first ones - above or below - category

[Feanoro]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316807....ser-elune-sylv

Outside of the source linked above, we know several things about Elune from Shadowlands


1- Her influence spans the entire universe, she made another night warrior on another world. So she can act on different worlds without being physically there. So she isn't an old god, nor a titan, nor a death entity.
2- Xal called her an " upstart goddess "
3- In the old RPG books (shadow and Light) she was the highest level entity existing ( way above the titans, sargeras, old gods and wild gods )
4- She can manipulate different kind of magic : Holy ( healing ) , Arcane ( moonfire , moonspell etc ) , Void ( night warrior's infusion ) , Life ( regrowing stuff, nature link), Death ( weaving Ysera's soul ) , you basically have all the cosmology powers and she can use them all outside fel magic. So she's defo not a Fel entity, nor a Light Lord.
5- Elune apparently created the Naaru. The tear of Elune worked on X'era's heart. Considering the Naaru were created, according to Kadghar , during the " great Ordering of Light and Shadow ", and that period was the first step of the cosmos' creation ( described in the firsts paragraph of Chronicles ) we can suppose it's also the era of the First Ones. During this Era, the naaru, the titans, and the shadowlands did not exists yet, they were created during or right after. which means she's older than the titans and the Naaru .

Since she created the Naaru who are one of the cosmos forces, and that the titans, for example, Eonar, reveres her, probably made a Pillar of Creation with her power and her name, and took refuge in Elunaria on the Elarian sanctuary, you can safely assume that Elune is above the titans and the Naaru.

Tyrande is actually the avatar of a being who is above the titans and who created the Naaru. Supposedly in the first ones - above or below - category

Then you understand why her being unable to deal with a zombie with a bow was particularly irritating.

[Engal]

Then you understand why her being unable to deal with a zombie with a bow was particularly irritating.

yeah they are downplaying her on purpose.... But It'd made sense that this power would consume its hosts, because it's the power of a being who is above everything we know actually, so containing it should be impossible. Moreoever, since its the dark / void side of Elune, its consumes its host and demands more of it, since the nature of the void is to consume everything. It's eating her essence while growing in power.

[Xilurm]

Out of all the characters in the horde/alliance, Tyrande is the last one I want to see beat Sylvanas. I'm tired of night elf bullshit and their Elune worship.

Tired? Of what? Half an expansion of story? Let me guess, you'd love to have more Orc lore.

[Armourboy]

yeah they are downplaying her on purpose.... But It'd made sense that this power would consume its hosts, because it's the power of a being who is above everything we know actually, so containing it should be impossible. Moreoever, since its the dark / void side of Elune, its consumes its host and demands more of it, since the nature of the void is to consume everything. It's eating her essence while growing in power.

I think you are on the right track. I have a feeling we will find out that Elune is essentially the " mother " of the universe, which is why you see her involved in every form of magic.

Wouldn't shock me that we don't eventually find out that Azeroth is more than a baby Titan, but something on the level of the First One's who are her children and is the reason she takes such a keen interest in Azeroth. Could be the head deity of life, which will create balance across the universe and is why all of the others want Azeroth so bad.

The First Ones are essentially her bickering children and she doesn't want to take sides unless one tries to kill Azeroth.

[cparle87]

I love how everyone's going on about how much stronger Tyrande has become after killing Nathanos, but all we saw her do in that cutscene was moonfire two wolves and duel a corpse already injured by an arrow

Big fucken deal

Moonfire two wolves who have just under 79k health finish off a raid boss who had at least 150k health left with one blow? Sounds like a big deal to me.

[Difuid]

Moonfire two wolves who have just under 79k health finish off a raid boss who had at least 150k health left with one blow? Sounds like a big deal to me.

Yeah, but I guess some expected she would kamehameha that part of the Eastern Plaguelands with a new moon spell.

During the fight Tyrande is playing with boyto.. Nathanos. Her main goal was to try and goad information out of him.
Otherwise she could have just sent that arrow through his head and be done with it.