Let me get this straight: DKs have no speed increase besides a single talent for 4s?

[Saltysquidoon]

im not shifting anything you are crying because dks are slow and i explained the exact reason why it doesnt matter. You shifted the goal post to bring up a specific encounter and when i explained to you that you dont need any more mobility than you already have you came out of your ass with the fotm phrase on mmo-champ "shifting goal posts"

You said you can pull enemies into your range, I pointed out you can't grip bosses. That's not moving the goalposts that's pointing out grip means fucking diddly on raid bosses.
Btw just so we're clear, are you stating dks don't perform poorly on high mobility fights?

BTW unholy is number 6 on that list out of all the dps specs in the game (big LOL at you basically proving yourself wrong there)
And frost is within 10% of the closest 16 other dps classes in this game (again... keep cryin)

You didn't look at the wrathion fight? You know that fight we're discussing, because it's literally the first high mobility fight in the current tier of raid content? Also, did you look at the prepatch data? Do you not know how to use warcraftlogs?

[matheney2k]

While the class has lower mobility it is by no means unplayably slow. I have Deaths Advance and I also spec into Wraith Walk. I just find everything else about the class exceedingly fun and have since Wrath.

lol not trying to poke fun at you, but after seeing what literally every other class has in terms of mobility, imagine being excited about Deaths Advance. I know Azerite traits that gave more of a speed boost than DA lmao

I love wraith walk though, but imho they should have make that baseline instead of DA. Just bake the passive DA into DK and delete it

[Clash the DK]

This is an old argument which always breaks down to two different perspectives clashing: PvE vs PvP.

For PvP, yes we have Grip and Chains which both "help". But you spend a lot of time and resources just to make up for the movement deficiency.

For PvE, we can talent into Wraith Walk. That plus Death's Advance generally get the job done. But we still feel "slow" compared to the old days.


I miss Unholy Presence. Before Legion we had an extra 35% movement speed between that and the passive effect from Death's Advance. Having this consistent amount was super useful in all aspects of gameplay. DK hasn't really felt the same since our utility purge which most other classes somehow dodged. Those classes remain more effective to this day. If you highly value mobility, then Warrior is the class for you. Everything DK can do, they can do better. Hell, the Warrior class is getting a Legendary in Shadowlands that grants Heroic Leap 3 charges. DKs will never have that kind of utility or versatility.

[Beastiel]

don't worry i'm sure by next expac we'll be back to 100% of every class feeling exactly like every other class. We're only 90% of the way there right now.


DK's have just about everything you could want and a battle rez. So you want them to just be better survival hunters?

[Jastall]

I'm just going to come out and say it who thinks DK mobility is 'fine' and/or "always imagined dks as a slow unstoppable juggernaut" either doesn't play high-end PvE or started playing DK after legion, it's that simple.
The fact is DK's are underrepresented at mythic level because their mobility is shit and they have very poor CC and utility (and on the whole middling damage and even when our damage is 'good' it's normally aoe/cleave damage not st). This is especially true for high mobility fights, it is simply the case that DK moblility is not 'good enough' in circumstances like that.

The CC thing was the whole debacle with mass grip being too centralizing for encounter design (which is fair as far as dps goes) which we've never really been compensated for in any way, it's possible (and even likely) that the reintroduction AMZ will go aways to ameliorate this.

As for mobility. Mobility is one of those 'invisible' stats people don't tend to think about at all until they don't have enough of it and on the other hand, once you have 'enough' it falls off the cliff of diminishing returns. As you can see in a fight like wrathion Dk's don't have 'enough'.

MuH hUMuGiNeYeSaYsHuN
Compare a rogue kit to a DK kit to see how sorry it really is.

You really used fucking Wrathion as a baseline? That fight on Mythic, at the 90th percentile especially, is about burst because he croaks so fast, and somewhat burst AoE, not mobility at all. In your same sample, overall logs put Frost as middle of the pack including on other high mobility fights. Taking current logs, Unholy is decent on Wrathion (second best melee actually) while the top spec is the absolute turret that is Arcane, with the same Unholy being one of the good specs currently. It performs quite well on high-mobility fights like Vexiona and Carapace as well (top melee spec there even). Your proof is extremely flawed. Pick rates are based on performance and, often, utility more than anything else, barring outlier specs like BM which are always picked due to being stupid ez to play. Mobility is a factor, but not anywhere near as all-important as you claim.

Rogues are the golden child and every other melee's toolkit is dogshit compared to theirs. They barely should be a point of comparison at all.

[Clash the DK]

don't worry i'm sure by next expac we'll be back to 100% of every class feeling exactly like every other class. We're only 90% of the way there right now.


DK's have just about everything you could want and a battle rez. So you want them to just be better survival hunters?

I believe that Flanking Strike should replace Kill Command for Survival. It's thematically fitting. Plus it's hard for Survival to compete with BM and MM. It needs more mobility to be a viable option.

[Doffen]

Except we dont which is what ive been posting about for years, half the enemies in the game cant even be gripped. Charges and other similar abilities work 100% of the time.

Im not saying we should be fast comparitively with other classes but we are slow to the point where its not fun imo, and im saying that as someone who has mained DK since it launched and will continue to do so. I love everything about the class but the mobility seriously pisses me off.

I disagree, but then again I haven't had it as main for so long. It's better nowadays than before, so I might not have played it so much in the earlier days that it annoyed me

That's the entire design mentality behind the class, pretty sure it was even addressed in a blue post years ago. The reason DK's aren't very mobile is a trade-off of being to snare in ST/AoE scenarios as well as being able to grip. If DK's had that toolkit plus were extremely mobile, that wouldn't be very balanced. No class/spec should be the best at everything, and this design is aligned with that sort of thinking.

I really like the class fantasy of DKs being a slow, but unstoppable force. Like the LK fight in HoO in Icecrown, he was super slow(even though its funny that a DK that masters frosts gets stunned or slowed by frost magic), it's one of many things that makes DKs cool imo.

Grip is also one of the cool(d)est utility abilities in game imo, I hear people say you can't grip many mobs, while the truth is that you actually can grip most mobs. Raid bosses are hard to grip, sure, except Hogger, but if we want some run speed in a fight as DK we can spec into it so we have two options. I like Death Grip so much I am choosing Necrolord on my Frost DK so I can grip even more mobs with the Covenant ability even though it's the worst Covenant. Such a cool ability.

[shockzine]

Havent seen anyone else mention this, but they did get a new runeforge that increases movespeed, plus more move speed and hp on kill. yes it requires you to swap out RotFC weapon when pve out in the world or w/e, but it shouldnt be too hard to get a 2ndary weapon for that. we already have to do it for our tank/dps set.

It's not too bad.

[Lurker1]

What.
The.
Fuck.
Blizzard?

How does anyone even enjoy playing such a slow class? I mean....holy crap guys. I genuinely feel bad for you, and have a lot of respect for anyone that stays with the class while dealing with literally the slowest class in the game. And with losing Azerite traits to increase speed, and
The Maw not even allowing mounts? Tell me again why anyone would suffer that?

Or am I missing something vital here?

I get to play a death knight pandaren.

[Swnem]

We have deaths advance and wraith walk, plus slows and plus grips. There is no problem here.

[Kithelle]

What.
The.
Fuck.
Blizzard?

How does anyone even enjoy playing such a slow class? I mean....holy crap guys. I genuinely feel bad for you, and have a lot of respect for anyone that stays with the class while dealing with literally the slowest class in the game. And with losing Azerite traits to increase speed, and
The Maw not even allowing mounts? Tell me again why anyone would suffer that?

Or am I missing something vital here?

Not everyone needs to zip around like Demon Hunters...

[Stacie]

Guys can we not derail the thread with personal insults.

[kail]

No offense, but EVERY class has self healing and loads of cooldowns.

Yes and they're all slightly different. DK has a unique stun/knockback resistance along with a passive slow resistance. Warriors have minimal defensive that depend on the spec being played (prot having most while fury having only rallying cry). Rogues have specified defensive against magical/physical threats. DH has a generic defensive along with a group defensive CD. The point being that every class should feel different in how they handle certain problems.

As for the self healing, every class does have some form of self healing but DKs are gifted one that is cheap, strong, and not as detrimental to dps as self casting Flash of Light or Shadow mend. The downside of Death Strike is it has to hit a target but is stronger based on how much damage you've taken.

Some also have just as many ways of escaping slows or otherwise dealing with big hits. Druids can literally laugh at slows while moving FASTER out of them. Paladins have both blessing of freedom and their bubble. Demon hunters and monks have leaps and dashes like crazy, and even warriors have 2 charges, a leap, and a free form dash if it's PVP. ALL have more than pleny of self healing.

So tell me again why DKs magically have to be slower than everyone else? Because deathgrip? I would talent out of deathgrip in a heartbeat if it gave Dks a sprint or a leap on the same cooldown.

Death grip is unique to DKs. If DKs could dash and sprint like druids and monks and be able to death grip, that's just giving too much for one class. If you don't like the idea of griping enemies to you, then maybe don't play a DK? As a Blood DK, I'll keep the insanely useful grip any day over what most other tanks have to keep pulls in control. Not every class needs to run at the same speed.

- - - Updated - - -

DK's have just about everything you could want and a battle rez. So you want them to just be better survival hunters?

As much as I love the survival hunter theme, just about every melee is a better survival hunter.

[msdos]

Tbh, Frost in raids and BGs is where you really feel the pain of the low mobility. Any stage where the FDK is in open ranges with target switches just feels hellishly god awful, in BFA anyway.

The other 2 specs can kinda get away with the slowness.

[kail]

Tbh, Frost in raids and BGs is where you really feel the pain of the low mobility. Any stage where the FDK is in open ranges with target switches just feels hellishly god awful, in BFA anyway.

The other 2 specs can kinda get away with the slowness.

That's a fair assessment.

[shank687]

You are missing one vital thing ye, the base talent which increase run speed, Death's Advance. We got one base and one talent.

We don't really have to run. We grip stuff to us instead.

The problem is, by the time you run into range to grip the mob to you, someone else has already run to the mob, killed it, and is halfway to the next one.

[Nalam the Venom]

What.
The.
Fuck.
Blizzard?

How does anyone even enjoy playing such a slow class? I mean....holy crap guys. I genuinely feel bad for you, and have a lot of respect for anyone that stays with the class while dealing with literally the slowest class in the game. And with losing Azerite traits to increase speed, and
The Maw not even allowing mounts? Tell me again why anyone would suffer that?

Or am I missing something vital here?

My DK has like almost 400 days /played. Would feel wrong to switch mains

and tbh, i don't find any other class as fun as DK

[slime]

Miss the days in Legion where I used them Legendary boots that increased your movement speed... DK had like 165% running speed... XD

Those bad boys were definitely part of the clearing old content set.

Also, don't you remember how slow as F Arthas was chasing us down in that last LK dungeon?!

[iosdeveloper]

DKs always had some kind of op speed buff, why suddenly they are slow in wow?

[Nnyco]

I mean sure, if we ignore death's advance.