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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    You gave away the game, so we are back to de-politicization.
    I have no clue what that has to do with depoliticization, unless that's what you are asking for?
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Easy, I to say "Fuck the libs? Damn fucking right, fuck the Libs! We are going to tax the Silicon Valley demons who conspire against you, and we are going to burn Obamacare to the ground and give you service you don't have to think about. Go in, get treated and get back to your life. No corporate Bureaucrat, no assholes at Atna or Kiaser with their ridiculous automated phone mazes, no paperwork, no fuss, no ifs ands or butts and none of this Libshit means testing and paperwork to hassle you. Are you with me or are you a cuck for the ghouls at Pfizer?".

    Because much like those people I too utterly and completely despise and hold with burning contempt the Libs.
    I understand and agree with the sentiment.

    Please recognize that political realities in America make that an impossibility, at least right now. The center left and actual left simply can't fracture first, or we are doomed to a corporate controlled hellscape that would make Ayn Rand blush.

    Once the right wing fractures, which I'm pretty sure is happening right now, all bets are off, and we can enact some real change.
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  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    I understand and agree with the sentiment.

    Please recognize that political realities in America make that an impossibility, at least right now. The center left and actual left simply can't fracture first, or we are doomed to a corporate controlled hellscape that would make Ayn Rand blush.

    Once the right wing fractures, which I'm pretty sure is happening right now, all bets are off, and we can enact some real change.
    Or, as I tell every even slightly leftwing person I know in the US?
    Work the grassroots. Get movements going. Vote and be active on the local, county, and state levels. Change what you interact with the most.
    Then swallow the crap you have to on the Federal Level to not get a Federal Government and Court that'll just shit on you.
    - Lars

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    I understand and agree with the sentiment.

    Please recognize that political realities in America make that an impossibility, at least right now. The center left and actual left simply can't fracture first, or we are doomed to a corporate controlled hellscape that would make Ayn Rand blush.

    Once the right wing fractures, which I'm pretty sure is happening right now, all bets are off, and we can enact some real change.
    There is a line in this song... in the 90s, it didn’t mean silicone valley. It mean energy and real estate tycoons. Did they ever lose power? Did Halliburton disband when I wasn’t looking? Seems to me, if silicone valley and insurance companies want less scrutiny, they should pray for an industry to be born, to shift the blame. How is renewable energy coming along? Has the evil tech industry impeded that progress too or is it just healthcare?



    Guess the line...
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-11-27 at 02:46 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    Please recognize that political realities in America make that an impossibility, at least right now. The center left and actual left simply can't fracture first, or we are doomed to a corporate controlled hellscape that would make Ayn Rand blush.
    You're optimistic.
    I'm fairly sure that your last point has already begun.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You're optimistic.
    I'm fairly sure that your last point has already begun.
    Yeah, we elected a corporation to be president. What was Trump’s qualifications, if not his wealth? We have a pandemic raging, as our corporation president is refusing a stimulus, without removing corporate liability? Wasn’t the whole Ayn Rand hellscape supposed to be thousands dying, food lines, rampant unemployment and a rental crisis on the horizon, while our president corporation plays golf?

    We are already there...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  7. #267
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    I understand and agree with the sentiment.

    Please recognize that political realities in America make that an impossibility, at least right now. The center left and actual left simply can't fracture first, or we are doomed to a corporate controlled hellscape that would make Ayn Rand blush.

    Once the right wing fractures, which I'm pretty sure is happening right now, all bets are off, and we can enact some real change.
    I for one am unconvinced you do. I think in the end your aim is identification with the DNC over those issues.

    For a second fact, please recognize what is really going on right now. The Democrats have been the hand maidens for that since at least Bill Clinton, you just voted for a guy who has been pushing hard for that corporate hellscape for his entire political career. Look to California and its Prop 22 which just consigned labor rights to the grave in good little Liberal California. With a lot of help from Kamala Harris' family no less. Heck the entire 1099 gig economy hellworld can be credited to the work of the Clinton admin and Robert Riech no less. There isn't a fracture, the Libs straight up Judas'd any of that ages ago, decades before Obama could oversee drown strikes, domestic spying and massive wealth transfers. That is all the party you stan for at work. With friends like the DNC who even needs enemies?

    The Right? Who gives a crap what they are doing. At this point its two parties for some strain of Neo-Liberalism. One just happens to also want to wave a rainbow flag while doing it. That is the rub though with you super democrats, "The time" is always in some nebulous incremental future, never a defined good time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    For a second fact, please recognize what is really going on right now. The Democrats have been the hand maidens for that since at least Bill Clinton, you just voted for a guy who has been pushing hard for that corporate hellscape for his entire political career.
    Hillary Clinton was for Medicare for All.

    Look to California and its Prop 22 which just consigned labor rights to the grave in good little Liberal California. With a lot of help from Kamala Harris' family no less.
    Yet Joe Biden and Kamala Harris opposed Prop 22.
    Last edited by szechuan; 2020-11-27 at 06:06 PM.
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

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  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I for one am unconvinced you do. I think in the end your aim is identification with the DNC over those issues.

    For a second fact, please recognize what is really going on right now. The Democrats have been the hand maidens for that since at least Bill Clinton, you just voted for a guy who has been pushing hard for that corporate hellscape for his entire political career. Look to California and its Prop 22 which just consigned labor rights to the grave in good little Liberal California. With a lot of help from Kamala Harris' family no less. Heck the entire 1099 gig economy hellworld can be credited to the work of the Clinton admin and Robert Riech no less. There isn't a fracture, the Libs straight up Judas'd any of that ages ago, decades before Obama could oversee drown strikes, domestic spying and massive wealth transfers. That is all the party you stan for at work. With friends like the DNC who even needs enemies?

    The Right? Who gives a crap what they are doing. At this point its two parties for some strain of Neo-Liberalism. One just happens to also want to wave a rainbow flag while doing it. That is the rub though with you super democrats, "The time" is always in some nebulous incremental future, never a defined good time.
    We live in a country with a two party system to control the presidency, and by extension the courts. The vast majority of electoral contests are winner take all, and a plurality counts as a winner just fine.

    If the left and center left split, right now, we'd be handing the right and far right the keys to all power in this country for a generation or two in a silver platter. They would win elections with 40% popular support because we split between two candidates who got 30% each.

    Sorry I'm more pragmatic than you might like in how my policy agenda is implemented.
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  10. #270
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    We live in a country with a two party system to control the presidency, and by extension the courts. The vast majority of electoral contests are winner take all, and a plurality counts as a winner just fine.

    If the left and center left split, right now, we'd be handing the right and far right the keys to all power in this country for a generation or two in a silver platter. They would win elections with 40% popular support because we split between two candidates who got 30% each.

    Sorry I'm more pragmatic than you might like in how my policy agenda is implemented.
    There is no "Center Left", you fall into this trap of assuming what I advocate is just "Super Liberalism"; that ain't the case. There will never be a solid day for the DNC, clearly for you, your loyalty and interest is a political parties power, not these supposed things you claim to believe in. The "Right" functionally is the Democratic Party. Look whom they have kept company with, whose voices they have elevated and brought in. Silicon Valley ghouls, the left over remains of the Bush Era NeoCons, CIA Spooks, and Mitt got dang Romney. What is the DNC now if not the GOP of the Bush era?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Easy, I to say "Fuck the libs? Damn fucking right, fuck the Libs! We are going to tax the Silicon Valley demons who conspire against you, and we are going to burn Obamacare to the ground and give you service you don't have to think about. Go in, get treated and get back to your life. No corporate Bureaucrat, no assholes at Atna or Kiaser with their ridiculous automated phone mazes, no paperwork, no fuss, no ifs ands or butts and none of this liberal nonsense means testing and paperwork to hassle you. Are you with me or are you a cuck for the ghouls at Pfizer?".

    Because much like those people I too utterly and completely despise and hold with burning contempt the Libs.
    Kinda weird that you're on the side of "Fuck the Libs" at the same time you are extolling the virtues of Bernie Sanders. "The Libs" never wanted Joe Biden.. they wanted Bernie. They accepted Joe Biden because it's better than the alternative. Even Bernie himself supported Joe Biden for that very same reason.

  12. #272
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Kinda weird that you're on the side of "Fuck the Libs" at the same time you are extolling the virtues of Bernie Sanders. "The Libs" never wanted Joe Biden.. they wanted Bernie. They accepted Joe Biden because it's better than the alternative. Even Bernie himself supported Joe Biden for that very same reason.
    The Liberals absolutely wanted Joe Biden. He is the perfect candidate for that faction. He, and the Clintonite brand are in line with everything the Liberals stand for.

    Sandersism is just a water downed Social-Democracy, a moderate moderate Socialism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    The Liberals absolutely wanted Joe Biden. He is the perfect candidate for that faction. He, and the Clintonite brand are in line with everything the Liberals stand for.

    Sandersism is just a water downed Social-Democracy, a moderate moderate Socialism.
    No. You're talking shit. "The Libs" wanted Bernie or someone like Bernie. They always have. The people that you have such "burning contempt" for are the people that voted for this guy:

    Gosh, if only there had been this guy, like someone who had run for the parties nomination whose whole platform was "Lets just have medicare cover everyone" and if only that guy was welcomed by a political party instead of being the most hated person by that political party.
    Moderates wanted a moderate like Joe Biden. And a Moderate won the nomination because the Center-left (that you claim does not exist) is actually where the majority of the democratic party is. "The Libs" got in line behind Biden because of the political reality that Biden is, if nothing else, better than the alternative.

    The next time the Democrats have to choose a Presidential Nominee..."The Libs" are going to back the "Bernie-like" candidate.

  14. #274
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    No, you misrepresent but that is typical for MMO-C.

    I'm the person at the Climate Change panel pointing out that plans like the Carbon Tax and Taxes on food are just putting the burden of stopping Climate Change on the poor and asking why the solutions proposed by said anointed experts seem to fall into "It is on individuals to do things".
    And yet you're also the one claiming there's a secret cabal of scientists doing things "because they obviously must be self-interested." I stand by every word of my statement on the subject.

    Which, itself, belies that... I think you just say what you want to... no matter how hypocritical... to stir the pot. You dislike the dissolution of conservative hegemony as liberals (which you've styled to include those scary scientists) assume more and more power. So in order to try and abate that and denigrate the victories liberals have been scoring, you play this halfsies faux-concerned persona about liberals "not being liberal enough" while pushing for ever changing, ever shifting purity tests just to try and paint them as being "secretly conservative" to sew outrage and distrust among the people who are ramping up to bulldoze you politically.

    You think no one has paid attention to those 22,000 rambling posts of yours? It's pretty clear what you "stand for," and what that is is whatever "owns the libs" in the moment. If Bernie had won, would you be painting him as having been "secretly in corporate pockets," or would you have switched your persona to suddenly be concerned about his socialism being too radical and alienating and inevitably causing the ruin of America?

    You and shalcker might as well be the same person. But I'm pretty sure he's at least getting paid to do what he does. You should see if they'll give you back-pay for those 22,000 inconsequential posts of nothing.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2020-11-28 at 04:14 AM.
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    Words to live by.

  15. #275
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And yet you're also the one claiming there's a secret cabal of scientists doing things "because they obviously must be self-interested." I stand by every word of my statement on the subject.
    See, this is your pure conjecture. I said all humans operate to some extent on self interest. There is no "Secret Cabal" especially if anyone can see how self interest works. My position is simple, that "Expert" doesn't say confer moral legitimacy or some higher state of being than a normal person. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that say a Scientist is by default a good person, like a human but better than a normal human. I am not ascribing any superhuman nature to an "Expert" in anything. I am simply pointing out class differences and how power works and you guys are screeching like I insulted your favorite Marvel Movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  16. #276
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    See, this is your pure conjecture. I said all humans operate to some extent on self interest. There is no "Secret Cabal" especially if anyone can see how self interest works. My position is simple, that "Expert" doesn't say confer moral legitimacy or some higher state of being than a normal person. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that say a Scientist is by default a good person, like a human but better than a normal human. I am not ascribing any superhuman nature to an "Expert" in anything. I am simply pointing out class differences and how power works and you guys are screeching like I insulted your favorite Marvel Movie.
    And I'm saying that your opinions on whether individuals in the scientific community might be acting with some measure of duplicity is meaningless given the context of how bodies of science as a whole operate. What we accept as scientific truth is born out through decades of rigorous testing by tens of thousands of individuals the world over. They are not beholden to a single government or corporation or narrative.

    It's why "scientists" and "doctors" that say things that ARE motivated by personal interest and profit... like those saying climate change is a hoax or those that are anti-vaxx... get called out for their bullshit rather swiftly. Because the science that tens of thousands of professionals and decades of research that came before them doesn't support it.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Dude, it's not going to work, I'm not going to stan Nancy Pelosi.

    See, this is probably where you fuck up. In the end you are less into the Climate Change problem and more into the DNC, basically trying to sell people on a consumer product. You need to focus on what it is you want people to believe? Is it in Climate Change or the Democratic Party? Because Climate Change is easier to sell than an entire political party.

    This is what I am talking about; probably where you struggle is that people can smell a rat, and you are gunning hard to sell people a consumer product, not have a discussion about Climate Change. Nobody likes the greasy shyster car salesman trying to work them over, and you already display that salesman pitch right away. People have a variety of complex reasons for why they might identify with a political project or not, and you are essentially bundling "Do you believe in Climate Change" with "Do you like X, Y, or Z politician". This is essentially "Well if you believe Climate Change is real than you must love Rahm Emmanuel, that is just Science and Expert respecting!". Basically, maybe try talking to people rather than trying to convert them. People can tell the difference between a discussion and someone giving a sermon or hawking a sales pitch.
    The hilarious part is that as always, Theo cannot address what is actually being said to her, and she makes up her fanfiction about how everyone is making a sale's pitch for the DNC. If you're trying really hard to see people's approval of the DNC as some kind of negative thing, I understand how one could believe that. In reality, a lot of people come into politics from a single issue, like Climate Change, poverty, fixing unemployment, etc.

    If you enter politics with a singular issue in mind, and one party is doing something about it (or trying to) and the other party is blatantly ignoring the existence of the problem, what is that person going to do? Of course they're going to throw their hat in with that party. It's not a sale's pitch, it's literally what matters to them. @Theodarzna spent the entire 2016 election and then some always bringing up how the DNC was not selling anything people wanted, and that Trump was offering people what they wanted to hear, so of course Hillary was going to fail. Now here we are, 4 years later, and Theo's criticism of people voting for the DNC is that it's just some silly sale's pitch. GEE, IT'S ALMOST AS IF THEO'S NEAR 100% TRACK RECORD OF BEING A HYPOCRITE IS COMING UP AGAIN.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And I'm saying that your opinions on whether individuals in the scientific community might be acting with some measure of duplicity is meaningless given the context of how bodies of science as a whole operate. What we accept as scientific truth is born out through decades of rigorous testing by tens of thousands of individuals the world over. They are not beholden to a single government or corporation or narrative.

    It's why "scientists" and "doctors" that say things that ARE motivated by personal interest and profit... like those saying climate change is a hoax or those that are anti-vaxx... get called out for their bullshit rather swiftly. Because the science that tens of thousands of professionals and decades of research that came before them doesn't support it.
    The irony of course being that every single pundit and "skeptic" who cries that scientists are all in it for personal gain, are nearly always on the payroll of a right wing group. These people literally get paid to be skeptics of climate change. And then they have the gall to call scientists grant chasers.
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  18. #278
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And I'm saying that your opinions on whether individuals in the scientific community might be acting with some measure of duplicity is meaningless given the context of how bodies of science as a whole operate. What we accept as scientific truth is born out through decades of rigorous testing by tens of thousands of individuals the world over. They are not beholden to a single government or corporation or narrative.

    It's why "scientists" and "doctors" that say things that ARE motivated by personal interest and profit... like those saying climate change is a hoax or those that are anti-vaxx... get called out for their bullshit rather swiftly. Because the science that tens of thousands of professionals and decades of research that came before them doesn't support it.
    Duplicity implies a conscious plan or attempt at deception. This is far more subtle and I don't blame you for being incapable of thinking through that. The case is simply that, people are not going to have a good reason to trust a different social class with no connection to them to rule over them in a way that benefits them and not the social class doing the ruling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  19. #279
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Duplicity implies a conscious plan or attempt at deception. This is far more subtle
    "I don't have any evidence, you just gotta believe me and if you don't you're clearly not smart enough to get it".

    For someone who bitches about people hanging on the words of experts like sheep you sure are fond of repeating the exact same nonsense that Tucker Carlson, Jordan Peterson, and every other Anglosphere grifter employs to weasel out of the fact their positions are based on nonsense conspiracies.

    What's doubly amusing is how little the talking points have actually changed, the names have just been swapped around; so instead of complaints about the Jewish media or the international conspiracy of Jewish bankers, we get buzzwords like "the liberal media" and "globalism" which y'all freely repeat without a second thought as to their implications.

    And then have the nerve to lambast others for shallow thinking. Clownery.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2020-11-30 at 01:47 AM.
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  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    For someone who bitches about people hanging on the words of experts like sheep you sure are fond of repeating the exact same nonsense that Tucker Carlson, Jordan Peterson, and every other Anglosphere grifter employs to weasel out of the fact their positions are based on nonsense conspiracies.
    Sam Harris just disavowed the whole IDW. Pretty much calling them insane grifters and claiming his previous association was a misinterpretation of a joke. He is now saying that Trump’s effect on people is far worse than anything IDW blames on the left.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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