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  1. #281
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    See, this is your pure conjecture. I said all humans operate to some extent on self interest. There is no "Secret Cabal" especially if anyone can see how self interest works. My position is simple, that "Expert" doesn't say confer moral legitimacy or some higher state of being than a normal person. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that say a Scientist is by default a good person, like a human but better than a normal human. I am not ascribing any superhuman nature to an "Expert" in anything. I am simply pointing out class differences and how power works and you guys are screeching like I insulted your favorite Marvel Movie.
    And I'm saying that your opinions on whether individuals in the scientific community might be acting with some measure of duplicity is meaningless given the context of how bodies of science as a whole operate. What we accept as scientific truth is born out through decades of rigorous testing by tens of thousands of individuals the world over. They are not beholden to a single government or corporation or narrative.

    It's why "scientists" and "doctors" that say things that ARE motivated by personal interest and profit... like those saying climate change is a hoax or those that are anti-vaxx... get called out for their bullshit rather swiftly. Because the science that tens of thousands of professionals and decades of research that came before them doesn't support it.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
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  2. #282
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Dude, it's not going to work, I'm not going to stan Nancy Pelosi.

    See, this is probably where you fuck up. In the end you are less into the Climate Change problem and more into the DNC, basically trying to sell people on a consumer product. You need to focus on what it is you want people to believe? Is it in Climate Change or the Democratic Party? Because Climate Change is easier to sell than an entire political party.

    This is what I am talking about; probably where you struggle is that people can smell a rat, and you are gunning hard to sell people a consumer product, not have a discussion about Climate Change. Nobody likes the greasy shyster car salesman trying to work them over, and you already display that salesman pitch right away. People have a variety of complex reasons for why they might identify with a political project or not, and you are essentially bundling "Do you believe in Climate Change" with "Do you like X, Y, or Z politician". This is essentially "Well if you believe Climate Change is real than you must love Rahm Emmanuel, that is just Science and Expert respecting!". Basically, maybe try talking to people rather than trying to convert them. People can tell the difference between a discussion and someone giving a sermon or hawking a sales pitch.
    The hilarious part is that as always, Theo cannot address what is actually being said to her, and she makes up her fanfiction about how everyone is making a sale's pitch for the DNC. If you're trying really hard to see people's approval of the DNC as some kind of negative thing, I understand how one could believe that. In reality, a lot of people come into politics from a single issue, like Climate Change, poverty, fixing unemployment, etc.

    If you enter politics with a singular issue in mind, and one party is doing something about it (or trying to) and the other party is blatantly ignoring the existence of the problem, what is that person going to do? Of course they're going to throw their hat in with that party. It's not a sale's pitch, it's literally what matters to them. @Theodarzna spent the entire 2016 election and then some always bringing up how the DNC was not selling anything people wanted, and that Trump was offering people what they wanted to hear, so of course Hillary was going to fail. Now here we are, 4 years later, and Theo's criticism of people voting for the DNC is that it's just some silly sale's pitch. GEE, IT'S ALMOST AS IF THEO'S NEAR 100% TRACK RECORD OF BEING A HYPOCRITE IS COMING UP AGAIN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And I'm saying that your opinions on whether individuals in the scientific community might be acting with some measure of duplicity is meaningless given the context of how bodies of science as a whole operate. What we accept as scientific truth is born out through decades of rigorous testing by tens of thousands of individuals the world over. They are not beholden to a single government or corporation or narrative.

    It's why "scientists" and "doctors" that say things that ARE motivated by personal interest and profit... like those saying climate change is a hoax or those that are anti-vaxx... get called out for their bullshit rather swiftly. Because the science that tens of thousands of professionals and decades of research that came before them doesn't support it.
    The irony of course being that every single pundit and "skeptic" who cries that scientists are all in it for personal gain, are nearly always on the payroll of a right wing group. These people literally get paid to be skeptics of climate change. And then they have the gall to call scientists grant chasers.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  3. #283
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And I'm saying that your opinions on whether individuals in the scientific community might be acting with some measure of duplicity is meaningless given the context of how bodies of science as a whole operate. What we accept as scientific truth is born out through decades of rigorous testing by tens of thousands of individuals the world over. They are not beholden to a single government or corporation or narrative.

    It's why "scientists" and "doctors" that say things that ARE motivated by personal interest and profit... like those saying climate change is a hoax or those that are anti-vaxx... get called out for their bullshit rather swiftly. Because the science that tens of thousands of professionals and decades of research that came before them doesn't support it.
    Duplicity implies a conscious plan or attempt at deception. This is far more subtle and I don't blame you for being incapable of thinking through that. The case is simply that, people are not going to have a good reason to trust a different social class with no connection to them to rule over them in a way that benefits them and not the social class doing the ruling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    Tankie Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics / Socialism with My Chemical Romance characteristics. Caramelldansen Nationalism. Aimee Terese was right about Warren. Anti-HR Aktion. When that Polka hits!. Ceterum et dare nobis duo milia dollariorum!

  4. #284
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Duplicity implies a conscious plan or attempt at deception. This is far more subtle
    "I don't have any evidence, you just gotta believe me and if you don't you're clearly not smart enough to get it".

    For someone who bitches about people hanging on the words of experts like sheep you sure are fond of repeating the exact same nonsense that Tucker Carlson, Jordan Peterson, and every other Anglosphere grifter employs to weasel out of the fact their positions are based on nonsense conspiracies.

    What's doubly amusing is how little the talking points have actually changed, the names have just been swapped around; so instead of complaints about the Jewish media or the international conspiracy of Jewish bankers, we get buzzwords like "the liberal media" and "globalism" which y'all freely repeat without a second thought as to their implications.

    And then have the nerve to lambast others for shallow thinking. Clownery.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2020-11-30 at 01:47 AM.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  5. #285
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    For someone who bitches about people hanging on the words of experts like sheep you sure are fond of repeating the exact same nonsense that Tucker Carlson, Jordan Peterson, and every other Anglosphere grifter employs to weasel out of the fact their positions are based on nonsense conspiracies.
    Sam Harris just disavowed the whole IDW. Pretty much calling them insane grifters and claiming his previous association was a misinterpretation of a joke. He is now saying that Trump’s effect on people is far worse than anything IDW blames on the left.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  6. #286
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Sam Harris just disavowed the whole IDW. Pretty much calling them insane grifters and claiming his previous association was a misinterpretation of a joke. He is now saying that Trump’s effect on people is far worse than anything IDW blames on the left.
    Yet he'll still argue it's ok to profile brown people at airports because of 9/11. Sam at least has the dignity to not get swallowed up by the Youtube nu-conservative movement, but he still has a long way to go.
    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  7. #287
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Yet he'll still argue it's ok to profile brown people at airports because of 9/11. Sam at least has the dignity to not get swallowed up by the Youtube nu-conservative movement, but he still has a long way to go.
    I am at a loss for what these people have to do with ANYTHING in the article I posted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    Tankie Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics / Socialism with My Chemical Romance characteristics. Caramelldansen Nationalism. Aimee Terese was right about Warren. Anti-HR Aktion. When that Polka hits!. Ceterum et dare nobis duo milia dollariorum!

  8. #288
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Sam Harris just disavowed the whole IDW. Pretty much calling them insane grifters and claiming his previous association was a misinterpretation of a joke. He is now saying that Trump’s effect on people is far worse than anything IDW blames on the left.
    Sam Harris didn't even promote the IDW, he only only promoted his personal arguments within the group. He has always hated Trump and thought he was harmful. There's literally nothing new here except that Sam has been over-interpreting recent events and he's been "on edge" lately.
    -------
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    Fallacies: Ad hominem, Generalizing history to predetermine the future.

  9. #289
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I am at a loss for what these people have to do with ANYTHING in the article I posted.
    I'd say hot take factories like the ones found on Youtube and pods like Chapo/Red Scare are almost certainly an example of "elite overproduction" mentioned in the OP.
    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  10. #290
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    I'd say hot take factories like the ones found on Youtube and pods like Chapo/Red Scare are almost certainly an example of "elite overproduction" mentioned in the OP.
    Maybe, but I don't know if they have much power. Though there are plenty in media/journalism in one capacity or another who would I suppose be downwardly mobile but highly educated people. I have heard it characterized that DSA itself is just a jobs program and playpen for said category. The Turchin take is there will be a battle between shut out aspirants and the more established elites who hold power and aren't interested in sharing it. Not that sharing it would be easy because on some level power is a zero sum game.

    Though I'd say the likes of Sam Harris and Steven Pinker have say gone the more traditional route of being court philosophers, Pinker especially has managed to leverage his position well; heck he even got to party on Little St. James Island and Harris too. So I hate to say it, but the closer you get to the former Epstein network the more I'd say you were in the elite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    Tankie Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics / Socialism with My Chemical Romance characteristics. Caramelldansen Nationalism. Aimee Terese was right about Warren. Anti-HR Aktion. When that Polka hits!. Ceterum et dare nobis duo milia dollariorum!

  11. #291
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I am at a loss for what these people have to do with ANYTHING in the article I posted.
    Because you have me on ignore... you are responding to people reacting to my posts... no shit you won’t know what is going on. Welcome to what defines your character...

    Edit: This is petty... but, let me indulge...

    Don’t you wish you could respond to me... don’t you wish you could respond to me... don’t cha... you thirsty... lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    I'd say hot take factories like the ones found on Youtube and pods like Chapo/Red Scare are almost certainly an example of "elite overproduction" mentioned in the OP.
    It’s also just a basic alternative to the OP... it’s providing a contradicting point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    So I hate to say it, but the closer you get to the former Epstein network the more I'd say you were in the elite.
    Excluding Trump... which is literally the point Sam Harris is now making. He mentions this blind spot, as the reason he doesn’t want anything to do with IDW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Sam Harris didn't even promote the IDW, he only only promoted his personal arguments within the group. He has always hated Trump and thought he was harmful. There's literally nothing new here except that Sam has been over-interpreting recent events and he's been "on edge" lately.
    Nope, not according to what he is saying now. Your contradiction of nothing new and over interpretation, is another example of the blind spot he is distancing him self from.

    Last edited by Felya; 2020-11-30 at 07:40 PM.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    The Liberals absolutely wanted Joe Biden. He is the perfect candidate for that faction. He, and the Clintonite brand are in line with everything the Liberals stand for.

    Sandersism is just a water downed Social-Democracy, a moderate moderate Socialism.
    You seem to be confusing establishment Dems with liberals.

  13. #293
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You seem to be confusing establishment Dems with liberals.
    Establishment Dems are Liberals in every sense of the word. Both in their ideological framework, but also frequently by self description.

    What do you believe Liberal to mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    Tankie Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics / Socialism with My Chemical Romance characteristics. Caramelldansen Nationalism. Aimee Terese was right about Warren. Anti-HR Aktion. When that Polka hits!. Ceterum et dare nobis duo milia dollariorum!

  14. #294
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You seem to be confusing establishment Dems with liberals.
    That’s the point. The point is to create no difference between Hillary and AOC.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  15. #295
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Establishment Dems are Liberals in every sense of the word. Both in their ideological framework, but also frequently by self description.

    What do you believe Liberal to mean?
    A better question is why you think the above. Why do you need us to explain your position?
    #TRE45ON - Trump's idiocy is refreshing its duration, but it doesn't stack.
    Edit: I think it's stacking now.

  16. #296
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Establishment Dems are Liberals in every sense of the word. Both in their ideological framework, but also frequently by self description.
    Which one is the neoliberal?

    What do you believe Liberal to mean?
    Precursor to communism and socialism... aka the end of western civilization that only Trump can save us from...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

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