The Next Decade Could Be Even Worse

[Mormolyce]

A lot of what's in that guy's post is nonsense, he is right about one thing though - nothing will improve until the root cause of wealth inequality in society is addressed.

But there's an entire wing of politics backed by billionaires determined to stop that happening.

[Omega10]

A lot of what's in that guy's post is nonsense, he is right about one thing though - nothing will improve until the root cause of wealth inequality in society is addressed.

But there's an entire wing of politics backed by billionaires determined to stop that happening.

Not to mention some of the structural issues facing the US.

We can't deal with a pandemic.

We started an economic war with China, and while they are responding effectively by decoupling and building up self reliance for their country, we are not. Many of our businesses rely on profits on their Chinese sales, and have not started finding other ways to make money.

Our infrastructure is crumbling.

We have record numbers of very qualified younger people ready to go to work, and businesses insist on sending our hi tech and other skilled jobs overseas. Companies have made it clear that the jobs leaving San Francisco and Seattle due to stay at home policies will be going overseas. People in Nashville, Tennessee require just too much money.

Our country is divided completely into 2 opposing pieces. A house divided cannot stand.

The rent is just too damn high. Housing costs take too high a bite of people's monthly incomes, even with the low interest rates.

The wealthy in our country have made it clear that if they have to support our country financially, then they will take their marbles to a different country.

[Monster Hunter]

A common theory about how the West became prosperous and went through massive living condition improvements for it's lower and middle classes is that back when monasteries and abbeys started to get shut down due to reasons (the details on that are not clear to me) was that thousands of highly educated monks were forced to go back to their peasant families. And while those monks were absolutely useless when it came to carrying bags of wheat, chopping wood or helping with the harvest, they did possess knowledge on engineering, accounting and legislation. This caused a sudden 'intellect' boom to happen among the lower classes and peasants who suddenly had one of their family members handling accounting or one that was capable enough to drag the local barons or knights through the mud at court for legal transgressions that were made against the farmers or village. All that is believed to have been at the basis for feudalism losing it's footing for a more democratic mindset and the beginning of industrialization (eg. weavers suddenly having an experienced engineer among them who manages to have the weaving machines powered by the local river instead of it being done by hand).

The Byzantine Empire never had this happen as their very authoritarian and religious state kept protecting the existence of monasteries, so the east-european peasants kept toiling further in the dirt while wealth inequality between them and the local nobles and clergy kept growing larger, eventually leading to becoming one of the elements that saw that Byzantine Empire collapse. It's only once wealth inequality becomes too large that the disenfranchised elites will start to instigate dissidence towards the local authorities.

Is there a hint of a solution somewhere in that little tidbit of history? I don't know, but it sure seems to match the story of the fall of the Byzantine Empire, in contrast with West-Europe which became the beacon of the Enlightenment and Liberalism for a few hundred years. Leaving the lower classes behind and to fend for themselves while the highly educated people and 'elites' are all pre-occupied turning profits for corporations might not be a good idea either in the long run.

It was a period called the "reformation" in european history, it was the culmination of religious oppression and a monopoly on power the catholic church had over Christian kings and nations for century's that led to a backlash and the birth of protistantism, the new protistant states like england then put Catholicism to the sword, litteraly, and dissolved the monasterys and abbys forcibly,the reformation and the religious wars that followed between protistantism and Catholicism was a rather bloody period of European history, the last reminants of wich can still be found in the schism within northern ireland, a fundemental underpinning of the loyalist position was they didnt want to be part of a majority catholic nation and run by Catholics, but that would need a whole other thread to deep dive on that shit storm over there.

[Mihalik]

It seems what he said on bannon went over your head. It doesent mean someone like bannon is for the working class, but make it appears as such. All the leech that stuck to trump along with bannon are literally as he described. Pretend to be the working class allies, because they are mediocre people with nice degrees and business, but feel they deserve even more, while theres just no real way for them to go up. Being the anti establishment was the only way to set them appart from their better pears.

Its funny that you would.compared this guy to ben shapiro and jordan peterson. Two people that fit 100% what hes describing, mediocre elite that only found one way to move upward, pretend they are an allie of the common folks. And be anti establishment.

Bannon never appealed or even remotely attempted to appeal to the working class. That had never been his target audience.

His target audience was middle class whites open to buying into racism and fascism.

"Economic nationalism" was a fucking silly rebranding of ethno-nationalism that somehow hordes of people fucking fell for to the extent he got himself invited by the Oxford Union to sell his grift.

Any half decent academic ought to have been able to see through the grift and never misidentify Bannon's politics with economic populism or whatnot.

My previous statement continues to apply.

[minteK917]

Bannon never appealed or even remotely attempted to appeal to the working class. That had never been his target audience.

His target audience was middle class whites open to buying into racism and fascism.

"Economic nationalism" was a fucking silly rebranding of ethno-nationalism that somehow hordes of people fucking fell for to the extent he got himself invited by the Oxford Union to sell his grift.

Any half decent academic ought to have been able to see through the grift and never misidentify Bannon's politics with economic populism or whatnot.

My previous statement continues to apply.

The grift is the point.... Also the white middle class, is what used to be the working class silly. All those ex miners and boomers with their houses, are working class people. If people like you dont even understand that, i guess hes somewhat right the next decade will be worse lol. Faux intellectual, fake allie of the middle class, is literally what hes warning you about. You had 70 million American voting for just that. But go on and believe you somehow know better. Guess what Stalin and Hitler also "allied" themselves to the working class.

- - - Updated - - -

Because what they say or think about the veracity of the election amounts to jack shit.

Sure, if you want repeat of 2016.... What Donald J Trump is doing to the democratic system is fucking dangerous. And no Biden being in office 4 years doesent magically make 70 million brain washed people, unbrainwashed. Mabye once someone you know die to one of these right wing terrorist attacks, youll change your tune about it not amounting to jack shit. Kicking Donald Trump out of office, is not even the beginning of a fix. Its just a band aid on an open wound. This is not the end of an Era, its literally the beginning of one, where record numbers of americans voted FOR BOTH SIDES. Not just the side that won. Which considering who was representing the red side, the amont of vote is a disaster for the near future.

[Ashnazg]

Right, democrats think this election was somehow a victory for them, but it wasn't. In fact, one could argue it was a smashing victory for the republicans. With a candidate as shitty as Donald Trump, to have such a strong showing in voting across the board - senate, house and president, spells disaster in 2024.

Biden is going to be an impotent president (for a variety of reasons - his centrist position being one, and almost certain strong opposition in the senate being the other), and the liberal left is going to try and get revenge on the republicans for the last 4 years, which will simply tilt the scales further right for the next candidate. If that next candidate is someone who is actually competent in addition to being charismatic, look forward for many more years of red.

[draynay]

Better question... why did we leave the tree?

'Cause it was full of beetles? I only read the first sentence of the article, did it stop being about beetles after that?

[Theodarzna]

Right, democrats think this election was somehow a victory for them, but it wasn't. In fact, one could argue it was a smashing victory for the republicans. With a candidate as shitty as Donald Trump, to have such a strong showing in voting across the board - senate, house and president, spells disaster in 2024.

Biden is going to be an impotent president (for a variety of reasons - his centrist position being one, and almost certain strong opposition in the senate being the other), and the liberal left is going to try and get revenge on the republicans for the last 4 years, which will simply tilt the scales further right for the next candidate. If that next candidate is someone who is actually competent in addition to being charismatic, look forward for many more years of red.

I don't doubt the Radlibs who officially or spiritually stan MovieBob from Twitter won't try for some kind of reprisals. After all their whole game is constructing a new version of "Deserving and Undeserving Poor" which means ultimately most of these people are really just different from Republicans in terms of style and who they argue is the deserving poor versus undeserving poor.

However, you are right, Biden will likely play "deal maker", but those deals will doom and screw over most and lead to an electoral disaster in the midterms and next presidential. Ideologically the Dems are trying to hock a technocratic Neo-Liberalism, the core of "Obamaism" which turned out to just be reheated Clintonism.

[Howel]

I will say that it at least has a more interesting spin, then the usual go to, the rich and powerful are bad, therefore collapse. I could see a possibility of it being true, that an overabundance in the elite class, leads to those who aren't successful enough to garner what they feel they are entitled to, to try and collapse it or change it as some grim revenge upon it. Would certainly explain why some people act the way that they do (Steve Bannon being a fairly good example in this particular case).

That of course coupled with a worsening standard for the working class, is always ripe for some radical acts.

It is a stark possibility; but hard to really tell, don't have his data, nor really the knowledge of interpreting such. So the conclusion, I'd say, is mostly for those who like it, and have something to point to; think anything beyond on that would likely be pretending to know more than one really does.

[PC2]

Turchin, a historian and scientist, believes he has discovered "Iron Laws" that may predict the rise and fall of societies.

That's impossible in principle. While there is nothing wrong with using physical laws in the natural sciences to predict outcomes the idea that there can be historical and social laws that can tell you the future of society is pseudo-science and quackery.

[Theodarzna]

That's impossible in principle. While there is nothing wrong with using physical laws in the natural sciences to predict outcomes the idea that there can be historical and social laws that can tell you the future of society is pseudo-science and quackery.

But we know for sure the future will be ever brighter and better aka Steven Pinker whom you routinely echo here?

Is this quackery because the projections are grim and dark, were as a sunnier optimism would get your seal of approval?

[Egomaniac]

Right, democrats think this election was somehow a victory for them, but it wasn't. In fact, one could argue it was a smashing victory for the republicans. With a candidate as shitty as Donald Trump, to have such a strong showing in voting across the board - senate, house and president, spells disaster in 2024.

Biden is going to be an impotent president (for a variety of reasons - his centrist position being one, and almost certain strong opposition in the senate being the other), and the liberal left is going to try and get revenge on the republicans for the last 4 years, which will simply tilt the scales further right for the next candidate. If that next candidate is someone who is actually competent in addition to being charismatic, look forward for many more years of red.

Honestly, The popular vote is a meaningless construct in America. It sounds great to say "We won the popular vote"...but it really doesn't mean anything. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote and still lost the election. It doesn't matter how many votes you get...what matters is where you get the votes that you do get. The Republicans know this better than anyone...they rarely win the Popular vote...but often claim the Presidency. So no...the Republican Party isn't looking at the amount of votes Donald Trump got as a victory. They are looking at the States that he lost as a defeat.

No, the way in which Republicans won so far is by gaining seats in the house. The Runoffs in Georgia will determine who controls the Senate.

But if you want to use the amount of votes that Trump got as a barometer of success..."Sleepy Joe" got much more.

[Theodarzna]

Honestly, The popular vote is a meaningless construct in America. It sounds great to say "We won the popular vote"...but it really doesn't mean anything. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote and still lost the election. It doesn't matter how many votes you get...what matters is where you get the votes that you do get. The Republicans know this better than anyone...they rarely win the Popular vote...but often claim the Presidency. So no...the Republican Party isn't looking at the amount of votes Donald Trump got as a victory. They are looking at the States that he lost as a defeat.

No, the way in which Republicans won so far is by gaining seats in the house. The Runoffs in Georgia will determine who controls the Senate.

But if you want to use the amount of votes that Trump got as a barometer of success..."Sleepy Joe" got much more.

Given the entire array of forces from CIA/FBI Natsec complex, almost all of the major media, all of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and the entire Financial Services Sector rallying to Joe Biden, and the fact the Trump presided over the worst pandemic outbreak in a century or more and the worst economic downturn in history, the fact that he is still the 2nd largest vote getter ever and his party expanded their ground in the House and State governments during a redistricting year and may likely hold the senate too, this is an indictment of the Dems.

Basically its, if not for a once in a century plague and a massive economic collapse, the Dems would have not even gotten the White House.

[PC2]

But we know for sure the future will be ever brighter and better aka Steven Pinker whom you routinely echo here?

No, the future is unpredictable in principle. There can't be a way of knowing that the future will be brighter or darker.

Is this quackery because the projections are grim and dark,

I mean if you exclude Covid then most data projections are not grim at all. It's irrelevant though because you should never think that the future of society is based on a continuation of a past trend(e.g. projection). Thinking that is like saying society doesn't even have the option to improve on a historical pattern. Which is nonsense.

were as a sunnier optimism would get your seal of approval?

Optimism is about the claim that the problems faced by each generation have solutions as long as people choose to seek them out. Optimism is not about saying that a brighter future is guaranteed to be 'probable' it is only claiming that it's guaranteed to be 'possible'.

[Egomaniac]

Given the entire array of forces from CIA/FBI Natsec complex, almost all of the major media, all of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and the entire Financial Services Sector rallying to Joe Biden, and the fact the Trump presided over the worst pandemic outbreak in a century or more and the worst economic downturn in history, the fact that he is still the 2nd largest vote getter ever and his party expanded their ground in the House and State governments during a redistricting year and may likely hold the senate too, this is an indictment of the Dems.

Basically its, if not for a once in a century plague and a massive economic collapse, the Dems would have not even gotten the White House.

It's an indictment on the people that still voted for the clown. The old saying "fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me" applies here.

[Ivanstone]

Given the entire array of forces from CIA/FBI Natsec complex, almost all of the major media, all of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and the entire Financial Services Sector rallying to Joe Biden, and the fact the Trump presided over the worst pandemic outbreak in a century or more and the worst economic downturn in history, the fact that he is still the 2nd largest vote getter ever and his party expanded their ground in the House and State governments during a redistricting year and may likely hold the senate too, this is an indictment of the Dems.

Its just a large minority of Americans showing how enthusiastically racist they can be. Substantial amounts of American voters like Democrat policies, they just would prefer that racists implement them instead.

[Biglog]

All year long I have heard many times a day people say 2020 has been the worst year in history and they can't wait for it to be over. I have a different perspective than most. My 2018 and 2019 were the worst 2 years of my life personally. Without going into details family illness with cancer, financial issues related to that and our fine US healthcare system even with excellent company insurance, etc. made our lives a living nightmare for both years. We literally counted the days and had a huge party on New Year's Eve 2020 to celebrate 2019 being over like many people look forward to 2020 being over soon. Then we got slapped with 2020. So we've had 3 hell years in a row.

So the reason I share this is because I do know what it was like to go through this with 2 bad years and looking forward to them being over before getting hit with 2020, and how mentally exhausting it has been. I urge you to brace yourself for that reason and just look at your 2021 as it may be bad, may be good, you'll see. Otherwise you might be setting yourself for a depressing letdown or small issues may hit you worse than they should in 2021, feeling like oh no not another bad year.

This is actually an important topic, not because of fear mongering clickbait articles looking for easy clicks. It's because so many people are counting on and assuming 2021 will be amazing *is* something I hope people really keep in mind may or may not happen for their own mental health. Life is really good at throwing stuff at us and trust me when I say that it isn't going to take it easy on you necessarily just because your 2020 was bad.

[Theodarzna]

It's an indictment on the people that still voted for the clown. The old saying "fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me" applies here.

Its just a large minority of Americans showing how enthusiastically racist they can be. Substantial amounts of American voters like Democrat policies, they just would prefer that racists implement them instead.

"The Party Cannot Fail, Only People Fail the Party!"

This is an amazing response, a drubbing electorally and the go to is this? First, these policies? I mean what did the Dems run on other than "Not Trump as President" which basically was achieved? I mean you say "Americans agree with the policies?" But the Dems ran against those popular polices. Biden vowed to Veto M4A, and is planning to stay in Afghanistan till the sun burns out.

More over Trump outperformed any Republican in sixty years among Hispanic and Black voters. Biden's win can largely be attributed to flipping White suburban voters, so this "RACIST BIGOT AMERICANS" defense doesn't scan as true.

As for the "They were fools" well, I mean Obama promised hope and change and delivered basically nothing but drone strikes and forever wars. So, who is fooling who here?

[Egomaniac]

"The Party Cannot Fail, Only People Fail the Party!"

That's not what I said

This is an amazing response, a drubbing electorally and the go to is this? First, these policies? I mean what did the Dems run on other than "Not Trump as President" which basically was achieved? I mean you say "Americans agree with the policies?" But the Dems ran against those popular polices. Biden vowed to Veto M4A, and is planning to stay in Afghanistan till the sun burns out.

Biden Running on "Not trump as President" worked. What did Trump run on? "Not Biden as President". Didn't work as well.

More over Trump outperformed any Republican in sixty years among Hispanic and Black voters. Biden's win can largely be attributed to flipping White suburban voters, so this "RACIST BIGOT AMERICANS" defense doesn't scan as true.

Yes, Trump outperformed. So did Biden. The Question is, did the people that voted for Trump do so because he was the Republican Candidate...or because he's Donald Trump? We won't have a definitive answer to that for at least another 4 years.

As for the "They were fools" well, I mean Obama promised hope and change and delivered basically nothing but drone strikes and forever wars. So, who is fooling who here?

Obama didn't contribute to the deaths of a quarter million Americans. As for "forever wars" you seem to forget it was George W. Bush that got you involved in those. Remind me again, which wars did Trump get you out of?

[Theodarzna]

That's not what I said

Your response to the suggestion that the Democrats messed up this election and did really poorly was to say that it reveals that a big chunk of voters are either evil or dumb. Your words were "Its an indictment of the people that voted for that clown" basically turning any critique of the Dems or Biden around and suggesting the only thing worth investigating are anything other than the DNC.

So actually, yes, that is exactly what you said.