Last edited by Eazy; 2020-11-16 at 07:47 AM.
No you wouldn't because all the things you say you dislike about the Rogue and class design has also changed in the game in general. Arena is completely different from what it was when you played the game.
Again, I find it completely ridiculous that you keep arguing about a game that you don't even play. You have no idea how it works anymore and you keep arguing with us based on outdated logic.
SnD made sense in Vanilla. The energy regeneration and combo point generation were much lower back then. In Vanilla the wrong use of finishers could result in death while leveling. But that's not how it is anymore. The game has changed. We generate so many resources that SnD just doesn't make sense anymore. I feel crazy that I have to argue about this with someone who doesn't even play the game and haven't played the game for the last almost 5 years. You're outdated mate.
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Mate, Shoegazing is not even playing the game and has not been playing it for the last 4-5 years. He has no idea what he is talking about. By the logic of his own signature, his opinion is not equal to ours because it is not well supported by logic since he doesn't even play the game.
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Mate, Shoegazing is not even playing the game and has not been playing it for the last 4-5 years. He has no idea what he is talking about. By the logic of his own signature, his opinion is not equal to ours because it is not well supported by logic since he doesn't even play the game.
Mate, Shoegazing is not even playing the game and has not been playing it for the last 4-5 years. He has no idea what he is talking about. By the logic of his own signature, his opinion is not equal to ours because it is not well supported by logic since he doesn't even play the game.
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Mate, Shoegazing is not even playing the game and has not been playing it for the last 4-5 years. He has no idea what he is talking about. By the logic of his own signature, his opinion is not equal to ours because it is not well supported by logic since he doesn't even play the game.
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Exactly. And it's also a bit sad. Why spend your life arguing about a game you don't even play... I just don't understand it. It's very obvious that he spends many many hours on this forum spreading misinformation based on his outdated knowledge. He for some reason thinks that the game still works like it did in vanilla. Or at least he pretend that. To be honest, I start to think he is just trolling. Because his arguments are so obviously misplaced when it comes to retail. The whole situation regarding Shoegazing is just sad.
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You don't even play the game. You have no idea how classes feels like in retail and how they interact with content. The game has changed.
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SnD is trivial in terms of meaningful choice. But it's still annoying because it takes up a GCD and it has no meaningful synergy with the mechanics of the specs.
You don't even play the game. It just seems like you're here to troll people. With your "Heh heh heh...". It's just sad that you're trying to annoy other people for no good reason. At least play the game if you want to make so much noise about it.
Well, its the typical situation and one of the reasons everybody hates Blizzard. They just slap random sh*t on us and wait to see what sticks. Its like they listened to the worst forum suggestions of them all and ignore or even intentionally avoid all the reasonable arguments.
They pruned the good stuff, changed the game and returned things that are obsolete at this point, just boring, useless, bringing only annoyances and bad balance instead of actually improvements. Generally from what I tested, the unprunning is mostly just maintaining or bad rng clunky trash making the gameplay worse. Seeing the balance, changes, time gating and Torghas I say it now, Shadowlands will become one of the contenders for the worst wow expansion ever and the last nail to the nostalgy coffer for many ppl.
Dunno, when I played rogue SnD is just like any other ability for me, especially the bleeds. Keep it up and manage it along with all other timers you have to maximise dps. It's no different maintaining it compared to rupture or garrote. Don't really get why SnD is boring and bleeds aren't since you use them roughly the same.
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I don't know when you played rogue or what spec you're talking about but if you're talking about pre legion sub, you had a passive called sinister calling that sped up your rupture ticks so part of the game was trying to consume your bleeds as quickly as possible.
If you're talking about post legion muti (which I suspect based on the reference to garrote). Rupture should feel similar to snd because it was designed to replace snd for muti, with the added interactivity bonuses of scaling into aoe as more rupture ticks means more energy which means you get faster, additionally, you have a talent which speeds up bleed tics (and gives you a new ability) in exsanguinate (sadly it was rarely viable).
If you're talking about pre-legion Muti, well you never had to maintain SnD in the first place.
Comparative SnD has always and ever been a non-interactive maintenance buff you keep up 100% of the time. Read in a light most favorable to the skill it passively increases the efficiency of passives that apply on auto-attack.
It's not bad, it increases dps which is why your press it when your WA lights up, it's not hard because all you do is press it when your weak aura lights up. It's just boring because it doesn't interact with the rest of your kit. Which is 100% on blizzard for just lazily splashing it into specs it wasn't designed to work with, I personally wouldn't have given a shit if they had sewn it back into the kit rather than duct-taping it to the roof.
My personal problem is a button you press because it is a button that exists to be pressed is a bad button and there is always room to make it a better button.
Last edited by Saltysquidoon; 2020-11-16 at 11:20 AM.
Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?
1) Bleed interacts with AOE. They generate more energy the more targets are affected. Bleeds makes the class more viable during downtime.
2) When SnD was relevant it was mainly because of slow energy regeneration and combo point generation. Today the gameplay is much faster and this makes SnD misplaced. What they practically have done with SnD today is saying "okay we take away 20 % baseline damage and add it back as a maintenance buff". Because SnD has no notable synergy with the rest of the class like bleeds do. In the past SnD presented a meaningful choice but it doesn't today because it's extremely easy to keep it at a 100 % uptime and the consequences of wasting combo points is much less critical than it was in the past. If they want to make a buff like this, then at least make it like Hunters Barbed Shot or Frost DKs Icy Talons which actually require a little bit of management to optimize uptime. SnD requires absolutely no management other than a weakaura.
3) One maintenance ability doesn't warrant another. Saying "oh well you already have rupture and garrote so why not add another" is not a good argument. Otherwise it can be an endless loop... "oh well you already have rupture, garrote and SnD so why not add a fourth maintenance ability...."
Last edited by Kaver; 2020-11-16 at 11:49 AM.
SnD gives the rogue breathing room for other stuff instead of being balanced around having each 5cp finisher used for direct damage or bleed on target.
You can refresh between fights or out of range. You can time the refresh around the fights to put the other finishers on the important bits of the fight.
Can i keep it up.. should i go for 4 seconds without SnD because we want to finish the mob that 1 second faster? Those decisions should make the game more fun for many players. If you want to mash 4 buttons as soon as they are off cooldown go for Diablo3 specs.
It is interactive because you can plan when to reapply SnD. It is not necessary to press every 40 seconds like a cooldown... you have a good window, a bad window and an inbetween window where you just don't have anything else to do...
Last edited by Hyrican; 2020-11-16 at 12:21 PM.
the only change snd needs is the animation
What are you even talking about? Where do you get this "5 years" figure just because I don't currently play BFA in this current patch?
I played Legion extensively (wish I didn't though). I played BFA a little bit. I played Shadowlands beta.
You're a liar and a hateful troll.
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He's blatantly lying about me. How on Earth could he possibly claim to know that I haven't played retail "for 5 years" ?
It's total bullshit.
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You are completely full of shit. Arena is NOT completely different from what it was when I last played the game. I have played every single expansion in this game's history. I have played a little bit of BFA arena. So how is BFA arena completely different from BFA arena?
I would obviously play a lot more retail if Rogue design was changed. It's the entire reason I'm here arguing for changes.
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Learn how to read. I didn't call PvE players traschan players. I PLAY PVE MYSELF. I called players who ONLY view class design in terms of "what is my damage rotation in PvE" trashcan players... which they are! That is a completely limited and ignorant view of the game and feedback from that perspective actively harms other players.
Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA
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That right there is the problem. The game has changed, for the worse by quite a whole lot.
Yes we generate so many resources that SnD isn't as effective, that's a sign of bad class design, not an issue with SnD. This is your problem, you think because of how the game is now warrants making SnD useless, but the game right now is not in a good and fun state, especially not Rogues. Hurr durr SnD doesn't do enough, rupture soooo interesting. Funny, all of those nuanced interactions with other abilities is exactly what has been dumbed down over the years. So your solution is to dumb it down even further, just get rid of SnD instead of fixing the class to begin with? How about we just have one big button that says DPS and you spam that over and over again?
Almost everything is press button and you get something. I don't mind it, it's another buff/debuff to track like many other abilities. Either you enjoy having more things to juggle or you find it doesn't provide anything and you have enough things to track already. Different opinions and all that, I just don't get the "boring" part compared to other abilities that seem fine.
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