Why still create world events when the servers are not able to handle them?

[Riistov]

Just to be clear: when I go there on midnight on a working day and there are only like 10 people around its not am issue at all. But those events are designed to attrackt much more people during prime play time.

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Thank you so much, I am happy that at least some people 1) understand the difference between FPS issues and lag and 2) at least acknowledge there might be an issue, even if they are not affected themselves.

Completely understand what you're saying OP. I've seen the same thing happen from time to time, especially during peak hours.

[phattsao]

I've killed dozens of rares and have experienced no lag. Ryzen 2600, amd 570, 16gb of cheap ram and a budget ssd. It's prob a you problem.

There's always that one idiot that either doesn't understand or decides to just deny it for the sake of denying it.

Either way, thanks for chiming in.

[Azerox]

Yes, I tried this prior to recording the video. If all it feels like turning off that option made it worse.

It does because it communicates less with the server then with enabled.

But yea it is crap, same as those world bosses in nzoth area's. Game just can't handle it.
People that have no lag are probs on a empty server or doing some random (not popular) rare.
Blizzard just has some crap hardware for WoW it seems.

[Monster Hunter]

This. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. Your. Fucking. Specs

I have a cpu alone that costs more than your whole gaming rig and 300mbit fiber connection and I am close to the EU servers irl... and yet I experience input lag when 200 people at the same time try to kill a rare in icecrown. Everyone has the same issue.

So far no video proof exists of players having a lag free experience of killing a rare in icecrown on a high pop server with a shitload of people around.

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*facepalm*

A bad internet connection lags completely differently, you know that? I always have a tiny ping during these lags top, so please explain that you genius

there more involved in internet comunications than the ping (speed of the transmission), a good thing to try is updating your network card drivers, bet you probly have never ever done that in the life of your PC.



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A bad internet connection would cause lag everywhere the player goes, OP is referring to zones where world-events occur.

The difference is the game can be fluid and MS can be good until you go to an overcrowded area where server-lag settles in.

no it wouldn't. it dosn't need to be bad just insufficent.

i will try to explain this in a way a baby can understand.

the internet works on packets, like the post service, each packet contains some of the data your PC either requests or the Host requests from your PC,

this is a packet


dont worry you dont need to know much about it just imagine it as a magice envelope with an adress to and from and some info in it.
it can take many many packets to transmit a whole thing, and the more things needed to transmit or the larger size the more packets are needed.

everything you see in wow is transmitted to your PC from the server over the net, the more you need to see, the players, what animations are they doing, what are they casting, are they targeting you e.t.c all that info your client needs to display that to you + everything your trying to tell the server and all the other players, that requires more packets.

now knowing that it should be obvious that the more people there are the more strain there is on your network to get all thos epackets to you and your packets to the server.

but wait theres more, it would be crazy insecure to just send that info open over the net, theres people watching and waiting to get that data or replace that data with malware, also to send it raw would require huge packets so it needs compressing... so what do... well theres layers between the net and the data in a format wow or your software can use.


this is an example of the layers a transmition goes through, notice how much gets done befor a packet is even sent or befor one recived even reaches your wow client.... well thats all latency added outside things measured by ping and that latency can be affected by a bunch of things like outdated drivers or simply not being a very good network card, after all its fine having 1g internet but if your card cannot process that rate then its like having a motorway all funneling into a dirt road.

so to cut it short, this shit isnt simple stop making uneducated speculation to fit an agenda, leave the uneducated small hands outrage to trump.

for those wanting to have a mess around with diagnostics
https://us-looking-glass.battle.net

also....if you dont understand the output from it, you probly shouldnt be making comments in this thread.

[Pakheth]

Yeah, funny story, the only reason my post caused me any trouble is because you misread my original post, then did some weird forum elitist thing about relevant information and all that when I called you out on it. If you actually read my post properly and didn't respond because it wasn't even addressed to you, then the OP would have responded like he did, I would have responded like I did, and we both would have gone our ways, no trouble involved. My way of doing things saves me a lot of trouble, and time, as well, unless people who can't read show up I guess, but that doesn't happen often thankfully.

Also, not everyone treats forums like debate class, some of us just try to have natural conversations with the person who started the thread and is actually looking for answers/responses, and don't feel like spending time wading through 50+ posts of hit or miss shite.

I honestly cannot reads your original post without seeing it as another mention of FPS lag which wasn't relevant and was again and again repeated by those who didn't know the difference in this thread, which after 8+ pages got very tiresome(since I actually read them). I'm not a native English speaker so don't know if that has something to do with it or not, but intention has a tendency to lose clarity over the web anyways in my experience. But yeah, perhaps I was a bit crass, sorry about that.

[Accendor]

Are you talking about the BfA pre-expansion event or the Shadowlands pre-expansion event? I had no problem with the BfA pre-expansion event at all. Nazjatar only lagged for me when I was joining shards with multiple 40-man raid groups on it. Aside from Bronjahm, I haven't had any issues in the Shadowlands event. Compare that to classic, where the world servers crashed during the opening of AQ, I would say things have improved over WoW's lifespan.

I am talking about the Shadowlands pre-expansion event, I am talking about the whole of 8.2, I am talking about Korraks Revenge last year and this year and I am talking about Drustvar for random intervals during the whole of BfA that nobody really has an explanation for, as well as countless other occasions that involve more than a handful of players around.

If you're having problems with world events, I'd recommend 1) not joining large groups

What you are suggestion it not do to content with many people that is specifically designed to be played with many people. I understand that this would solve my problem in some cases, but as a solution to the general problem this is not really acceptable.

[GreenJesus]

@Accendor

I see you are having a hard time with the MMO-C community (>_<)

I watch swifty and asmongold and on BOTH streams there is a running joke about Blizzard servers being bad at handling a lot of people.
But ofc
This is a "you problem"

It's hilarious considering they both have nearly top end hardware and live in an area where there is top-end internet. If they are having problems then imagine the rest of us plebians. if people don't think Blizzard's servers have problems then they simply don't play the game.

[Baneto]

snip

Weird flex, but it doesnt take away from the fact that the majority of the issues are on Blizzards end, since so many players get affected at once.

[Kuja]

I haven't seen any lag during BFA I recall. But I did watch asmongold play and the server was lagging for him.

[tommyhil622]

This is an ongoing issue for nearly the whole lifespan of the game now, but it feels like it got even worse in BfA.
Look at the pre expansion event: Each time one of the rares spawn there are like 100 players around and it gets impossible to actually use abilities simply because of lag (lag, not fps issues, don't mix that up). Everyone is just running on place without actually moving, the rares teleport sometimes from place to place and bag and then they die without actually doing anything.

Like this just feels SO bad. Either fundamentally improve the structure of the game so that events like this can be handled or create those events in another way (Scenarios perhaps?)
Its a bit unfair, because the game is really old, but during those events you really FEEL how old it is.

Edit: For everybody who still does not understand what is going on, I have created the following video:
As you can see, my FPS are fairly ok (around 50-60 FPS at this place, even with the big number of players around as well the fact that I am recording my screen at the same time).
You will also see that my FPS stay this way for almost the whole fight, but when you look at my ability bar you will see how my abilities get pressed but don't actually get exectured. You can see other players talk about this exact issue in /say in German during the fight.
Then suddenly close to the end my whole screen freezes. This was new, I never had this before and it was not something I initially talked about, but also here you can see players talk about it right after the kill is done in /s.
After checking with around 20 of them, it seems like every single player on this kill was affected by this, not just me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C62B...ature=youtu.be

Also Asmongold stream capture about this (doesnt matter if you like him or not, this is about the technical issue):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_m2w4Uf8yc&t=19m32s

And to point this out again, this is not an "this event only", as e.g. Nazjatar PVP events and Korraks Revenge are also affected by this.

Interesting, but i have yet to experience any lag with the event. I play on Sargeras, one of the largest servers, there were easily 200+ players on many of the bosses i hit. Virtually little to no lag. So maybe it's a local thing?

[Orange Joe]

I've killed dozens of rares and have experienced no lag. Ryzen 2600, amd 570, 16gb of cheap ram and a budget ssd. It's prob a you problem.

Your ignorance is showing. Low fps =/= lag. None of the parts you mention have anything to do with lag.

[Accendor]

Virtually little to no lag. So maybe it's a local thing?

I mean its possible, but given the fact that this happens and basically every rare spawn and the players are from all around Germany I kinda doubt it.

[Tziva]

The problem may not be universal but there's a huge area between "not universal" and "an individual client-side issue." It is very easy to eliminate the question of whether it is a local problem by joining a 40 man raid group doing Nathanos and asking if anyone else is experiencing lag when you are. You'll find that the rest of the raid will usually confirm it when it is happening.

Every time I do him on an alt, there's always someone who complains or asks and a huge chunk of the rest of the group chimes in. To me, that alone makes it very clear that the problem isn't the local machine or connection. It might not be every group or every server or shard, but it's definitely happening. I mean, also you can check the forums (here and the official ones) for confirmation from a lot of other people having performance issues related to the pre-patch world events.

As I mentioned, I've personally been okay in Icecrown for the most part, but Nathanos has been real bad on my alts if the raid reaches max size. If the group is small it is usually fine but some real lag in larger groups. This is not an issue I usually have in any other context, including traditional instanced raids.

[Terminatrix]

How the hell will getting new RAM and GFX card help on server lag? Please do tell

well upgrading your stuff helps everyone around me was complaining about high latency and lag but i had nothing and we were on same server. im not saying it solves the problem im just saying it helps

[Accendor]

well upgrading your stuff helps everyone around me was complaining about high latency and lag but i had nothing and we were on same server. im not saying it solves the problem im just saying it helps

While your intent to help is honorable, let me tell: No, it does not help, except when you have a broken or completely outdated network card or driver.

[kaminaris]

Its hard to pinpoint for a layman, but I think its fair to assume it has to do with sharding and servers.

Its actually fairly simple to pinpoint for blizzard as they can check lost packets based on people routing and identify problems.
It's not fair to assume anything because no real diagnostics has been done.

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Its 100% a server issue, the server just cant handle when too many are in one spot let alone all the animations, if your on a dead server then you shouldnt have issues but when 40 plus chars are killing one rare then everyone has the same issue.

Server doesn't process any animations, you are wrong. It's called shard now, physical servers are long gone (the methods, still have to have physical servers).

And the only thing to actually reduce shard lags is to disallow grouping above 5 players and aggressively spread people to shards.
But then again people will cry they got phased.

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While your intent to help is honorable, let me tell: No, it does not help, except when you have a broken or completely outdated network card or driver.

So again questions, did you do any real diagnostics? Have you tried contacting blizzard support?

Also test changing shards.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Blizzard could solve this problem, but it'd cost more money so they won't.

Don't want any of that 3.2b they made through MTX to go to the game but towards their christmas bonus.

[Baneto]

Its actually fairly simple to pinpoint for blizzard as they can check lost packets based on people routing and identify problems.
It's not fair to assume anything because no real diagnostics has been done.

Then I am going to be "unfair" and keep my assumption. You did not convince me.

I dont believe its on the players end when as many people are experiencing it at the exact same time.

[WowIsDead64]

The problem may not be universal but there's a huge area between "not universal" and "an individual client-side issue." It is very easy to eliminate the question of whether it is a local problem by joining a 40 man raid group doing Nathanos and asking if anyone else is experiencing lag when you are. You'll find that the rest of the raid will usually confirm it when it is happening.

Every time I do him on an alt, there's always someone who complains or asks and a huge chunk of the rest of the group chimes in. To me, that alone makes it very clear that the problem isn't the local machine or connection. It might not be every group or every server or shard, but it's definitely happening. I mean, also you can check the forums (here and the official ones) for confirmation from a lot of other people having performance issues related to the pre-patch world events.

As I mentioned, I've personally been okay in Icecrown for the most part, but Nathanos has been real bad on my alts if the raid reaches max size. If the group is small it is usually fine but some real lag in larger groups. This is not an issue I usually have in any other context, including traditional instanced raids.

There is easy way to distinguish server side lags from ISP or computer lags. Simple thing. If it would be ISP or computer lags, I would have them everywhere. But if I have lags in world boss location, but don't have them in other, then may be it's server lags? Or fact, that not everything lags. For example NPCs don't lag, other players running around don't lag. My abilities and looting lags. I.e. only things, that involve DB. It's obvious server problems.

[callipygoustp]

Why still create world events when the servers are not able to handle them?

I expect Blizzard builds their back end to support a common average and as such we suffer when popular events are going on.

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2020 and so many people, gamers in particular here, don't understand the difference between client and server. Good god.