Why still create world events when the servers are not able to handle them?

[Baneto]

snip

Weird flex, but it doesnt take away from the fact that the majority of the issues are on Blizzards end, since so many players get affected at once.

[Kuja]

I haven't seen any lag during BFA I recall. But I did watch asmongold play and the server was lagging for him.

[tommyhil622]

This is an ongoing issue for nearly the whole lifespan of the game now, but it feels like it got even worse in BfA.
Look at the pre expansion event: Each time one of the rares spawn there are like 100 players around and it gets impossible to actually use abilities simply because of lag (lag, not fps issues, don't mix that up). Everyone is just running on place without actually moving, the rares teleport sometimes from place to place and bag and then they die without actually doing anything.

Like this just feels SO bad. Either fundamentally improve the structure of the game so that events like this can be handled or create those events in another way (Scenarios perhaps?)
Its a bit unfair, because the game is really old, but during those events you really FEEL how old it is.

Edit: For everybody who still does not understand what is going on, I have created the following video:
As you can see, my FPS are fairly ok (around 50-60 FPS at this place, even with the big number of players around as well the fact that I am recording my screen at the same time).
You will also see that my FPS stay this way for almost the whole fight, but when you look at my ability bar you will see how my abilities get pressed but don't actually get exectured. You can see other players talk about this exact issue in /say in German during the fight.
Then suddenly close to the end my whole screen freezes. This was new, I never had this before and it was not something I initially talked about, but also here you can see players talk about it right after the kill is done in /s.
After checking with around 20 of them, it seems like every single player on this kill was affected by this, not just me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C62B...ature=youtu.be

Also Asmongold stream capture about this (doesnt matter if you like him or not, this is about the technical issue):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_m2w4Uf8yc&t=19m32s

And to point this out again, this is not an "this event only", as e.g. Nazjatar PVP events and Korraks Revenge are also affected by this.

Interesting, but i have yet to experience any lag with the event. I play on Sargeras, one of the largest servers, there were easily 200+ players on many of the bosses i hit. Virtually little to no lag. So maybe it's a local thing?

[Orange Joe]

I've killed dozens of rares and have experienced no lag. Ryzen 2600, amd 570, 16gb of cheap ram and a budget ssd. It's prob a you problem.

Your ignorance is showing. Low fps =/= lag. None of the parts you mention have anything to do with lag.

[Accendor]

Virtually little to no lag. So maybe it's a local thing?

I mean its possible, but given the fact that this happens and basically every rare spawn and the players are from all around Germany I kinda doubt it.

[Tziva]

The problem may not be universal but there's a huge area between "not universal" and "an individual client-side issue." It is very easy to eliminate the question of whether it is a local problem by joining a 40 man raid group doing Nathanos and asking if anyone else is experiencing lag when you are. You'll find that the rest of the raid will usually confirm it when it is happening.

Every time I do him on an alt, there's always someone who complains or asks and a huge chunk of the rest of the group chimes in. To me, that alone makes it very clear that the problem isn't the local machine or connection. It might not be every group or every server or shard, but it's definitely happening. I mean, also you can check the forums (here and the official ones) for confirmation from a lot of other people having performance issues related to the pre-patch world events.

As I mentioned, I've personally been okay in Icecrown for the most part, but Nathanos has been real bad on my alts if the raid reaches max size. If the group is small it is usually fine but some real lag in larger groups. This is not an issue I usually have in any other context, including traditional instanced raids.

[Terminatrix]

How the hell will getting new RAM and GFX card help on server lag? Please do tell

well upgrading your stuff helps everyone around me was complaining about high latency and lag but i had nothing and we were on same server. im not saying it solves the problem im just saying it helps

[Accendor]

well upgrading your stuff helps everyone around me was complaining about high latency and lag but i had nothing and we were on same server. im not saying it solves the problem im just saying it helps

While your intent to help is honorable, let me tell: No, it does not help, except when you have a broken or completely outdated network card or driver.

[kaminaris]

Its hard to pinpoint for a layman, but I think its fair to assume it has to do with sharding and servers.

Its actually fairly simple to pinpoint for blizzard as they can check lost packets based on people routing and identify problems.
It's not fair to assume anything because no real diagnostics has been done.

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Its 100% a server issue, the server just cant handle when too many are in one spot let alone all the animations, if your on a dead server then you shouldnt have issues but when 40 plus chars are killing one rare then everyone has the same issue.

Server doesn't process any animations, you are wrong. It's called shard now, physical servers are long gone (the methods, still have to have physical servers).

And the only thing to actually reduce shard lags is to disallow grouping above 5 players and aggressively spread people to shards.
But then again people will cry they got phased.

- - - Updated - - -

While your intent to help is honorable, let me tell: No, it does not help, except when you have a broken or completely outdated network card or driver.

So again questions, did you do any real diagnostics? Have you tried contacting blizzard support?

Also test changing shards.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Blizzard could solve this problem, but it'd cost more money so they won't.

Don't want any of that 3.2b they made through MTX to go to the game but towards their christmas bonus.

[Baneto]

Its actually fairly simple to pinpoint for blizzard as they can check lost packets based on people routing and identify problems.
It's not fair to assume anything because no real diagnostics has been done.

Then I am going to be "unfair" and keep my assumption. You did not convince me.

I dont believe its on the players end when as many people are experiencing it at the exact same time.

[WowIsDead64]

The problem may not be universal but there's a huge area between "not universal" and "an individual client-side issue." It is very easy to eliminate the question of whether it is a local problem by joining a 40 man raid group doing Nathanos and asking if anyone else is experiencing lag when you are. You'll find that the rest of the raid will usually confirm it when it is happening.

Every time I do him on an alt, there's always someone who complains or asks and a huge chunk of the rest of the group chimes in. To me, that alone makes it very clear that the problem isn't the local machine or connection. It might not be every group or every server or shard, but it's definitely happening. I mean, also you can check the forums (here and the official ones) for confirmation from a lot of other people having performance issues related to the pre-patch world events.

As I mentioned, I've personally been okay in Icecrown for the most part, but Nathanos has been real bad on my alts if the raid reaches max size. If the group is small it is usually fine but some real lag in larger groups. This is not an issue I usually have in any other context, including traditional instanced raids.

There is easy way to distinguish server side lags from ISP or computer lags. Simple thing. If it would be ISP or computer lags, I would have them everywhere. But if I have lags in world boss location, but don't have them in other, then may be it's server lags? Or fact, that not everything lags. For example NPCs don't lag, other players running around don't lag. My abilities and looting lags. I.e. only things, that involve DB. It's obvious server problems.

[callipygoustp]

Why still create world events when the servers are not able to handle them?

I expect Blizzard builds their back end to support a common average and as such we suffer when popular events are going on.

----
2020 and so many people, gamers in particular here, don't understand the difference between client and server. Good god.

[Tziva]

There is easy way to distinguish server side lags from ISP or computer lags. Simple thing. If it would be ISP or computer lags, I would have them everywhere. But if I have lags in world boss location, but don't have them in other, then may be it's server lags? Or fact, that not everything lags. For example NPCs don't lag, other players running around don't lag. My abilities and looting lags. I.e. only things, that involve DB. It's obvious server problems.

To be clear, I wasn't arguing otherwise.

[rrayy]

Don't want any of that 3.2b they made through MTX to go to the game but towards their christmas bonus.

They can't make that 3.2b if the game doesn't work. So, this nonsense is nowhere near the truth.

[Yeorgaki]

ANd we can stop right here. I don't take either of those two seriously.

- - - Updated - - -

ANd all the plyers says they aren't noticiing server side lag either. So it is a him problem.

It has nothing to do with taking them seriously. Were talking about the gameplay, not what they do or say. It has nothing to do with Swifty or Asmon at all actually. Watch any streamer that farms rares, they all experience the same problem. All of them. As in everyone, including you. This problem isnt native to WoW only. The majority of games experience this when 100 to 200 players standing in a 5 yard radius start blasting spells with massive visual effects and tens thousands of attack - defense - health and stat modifiers triggering every second. This is a everyone problem, anyone denying it is in denial. Why? Beats me, maybe God knows.

[rrayy]

It has nothing to do with taking them seriously. Were talking about the gameplay, not what they do or say. It has nothing to do with Swifty or Asmon at all actually. Watch any streamer that farms rares, they all experience the same problem. All of them. As in everyone, including you. This problem isnt native to WoW only. The majority of games experience this when 100 to 200 players standing in a 5 yard radius start blasting spells with massive visual effects and tens thousands of attack - defense - health and stat modifiers triggering every second. This is a everyone problem, anyone denying it is in denial. Why? Beats me, maybe God knows.

Well pof coruse there is a problem because you have a ton of people in one place. It's not a server issue, it the issue of your PC having to render all that at one time. I have NEVER had any lag of any kind. WHy? Because when I play there is never more than 20 people at one time. You are playing on a packed realm with a ton of other players and your PC is struggling to render it. Nobody is in denial. We just aren't pointing to something it is not in order to bash Blizzard because we don't have an understanding of how IT works.

[Algorath]

This is an ongoing issue for nearly the whole lifespan of the game now, but it feels like it got even worse in BfA.
Look at the pre expansion event: Each time one of the rares spawn there are like 100 players around and it gets impossible to actually use abilities simply because of lag (lag, not fps issues, don't mix that up). Everyone is just running on place without actually moving, the rares teleport sometimes from place to place and bag and then they die without actually doing anything.

Like this just feels SO bad. Either fundamentally improve the structure of the game so that events like this can be handled or create those events in another way (Scenarios perhaps?)
Its a bit unfair, because the game is really old, but during those events you really FEEL how old it is.

Edit: For everybody who still does not understand what is going on, I have created the following video:
As you can see, my FPS are fairly ok (around 50-60 FPS at this place, even with the big number of players around as well the fact that I am recording my screen at the same time).
You will also see that my FPS stay this way for almost the whole fight, but when you look at my ability bar you will see how my abilities get pressed but don't actually get exectured. You can see other players talk about this exact issue in /say in German during the fight.
Then suddenly close to the end my whole screen freezes. This was new, I never had this before and it was not something I initially talked about, but also here you can see players talk about it right after the kill is done in /s.
After checking with around 20 of them, it seems like every single player on this kill was affected by this, not just me.



Also Asmongold stream capture about this (doesnt matter if you like him or not, this is about the technical issue):



And to point this out again, this is not an "this event only", as e.g. Nazjatar PVP events and Korraks Revenge are also affected by this.

I don't know what it is about your little example of you lagging that annoys me most.. The mechanical clacking of you smashing your keyboard for abilities already registered, or the fact that you are backpedalling/running like an idiot the whole time.

Anyway, to the point. I agree to an extent. Although I really think it should be fixed in the direction of fixing servers rather than removing world events. It would be impossible to make anything remotely challenging or fun with 2-3 sec input lag.

[Baneto]

Well pof coruse there is a problem because you have a ton of people in one place. It's not a server issue, it the issue of your PC having to render all that at one time. I have NEVER had any lag of any kind. WHy? Because when I play there is never more than 20 people at one time. You are playing on a packed realm with a ton of other players and your PC is struggling to render it. Nobody is in denial. We just aren't pointing to something it is not in order to bash Blizzard because we don't have an understanding of how IT works.

Wrong, there are people with high-end computers that dont suffer any FPS-drops while rare-farming but they experience lag.

As we already concluded on page on of this thread, it isnt a client-side issue.
Dont let your urge to defend Blizzard everywhere blind you from obvious problems.

[WowIsDead64]

To be clear, I wasn't arguing otherwise.

I don't argue with you - I just wanted to add, that there are some clear signs of server lags. Last time, I had ISP lags, was back in WotLK. I had packet loss, that was causing 300ms ping. Anyone here has to understand, that if there is 1000ms delay between button press and server respond and it's caused by ISP routing or packet loss, then it just HAS TO affect ping, because I don't think, that Blizzard use separate ICMP protocol to calculate ping to their servers. They have some internal time-stamps to calculate it. So, if packet route is 1000ms long, then ping should be 1000ms too.