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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    If Classic has taught us anything, then it's that certain holes within the game will be mercilessly exploited, adhering to a philosophy that forbids making any changes, despite being clearly better for the player experience, should not be repeated in TBC.
    It's our own damn fault too. The community in general shouted two things loud as fucking hell, #nochanges and "megaservers". Both were massive errors and a perfect example of why Blizzard should never ever give in to mob mentality. They're the designers, we're not.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    It's our own damn fault too. The community in general shouted two things loud as fucking hell, #nochanges and "megaservers".
    I'd only consider it an error if the proper lessons aren't learned.

    I think it has shown that the older version(s) of the game have a strong core, but adaptions at certain points are necessary because the community is a living thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Both were massive errors and a perfect example of why Blizzard should never ever give in to mob mentality. They're the designers, we're not.
    To be fair, without a certain type of "mob mentality", we probably wouldn't have Classic to begin with because Bracks "You think you do, but you don't" would still be their final word on Classic servers, rather than being a prime example of how a company can be out of touch with their customers.

    Classic's success is in itself proof that "Blizzard knows best" is faulty as well - massively sometimes in fact.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post

    There is just:
    -Blizzard saying the "legwork is done" for TBC, as TBC is much smaller in scope than Classic
    -Ion saying "TBC is the logical next step"
    -A poll on how to roll out TBC servers
    -J. Allen Brack saying that they have plans for the future of the modern game and Classic in a recent earnings call
    -Blizzard still hiring engineers for WoW: Classic
    -John Hight saying that Classic has its own team

    Do those count as indicators?
    Great list. I would add the fact that there is some precedent, as EQ is doing something similar and for a much smaller player base.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    They made several drastic changes that had an extremely negative impact on the game. I don't know how you define "ruin", but they sure ruined the best parts of the game in my opinion.
    What parts did they ruin exactly?

    Give specifics

  5. #45
    What's with the TBC talk lately, is this a real thing or just another case of players hyping themselves up over speculation?

  6. #46
    Legendary! Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    There is just:
    -Blizzard saying the "legwork is done" for TBC, as TBC is much smaller in scope than Classic
    -Ion saying "TBC is the logical next step"
    -A poll on how to roll out TBC servers
    -J. Allen Brack saying that they have plans for the future of the modern game and Classic in a recent earnings call
    -Blizzard still hiring engineers for WoW: Classic
    -John Hight saying that Classic has its own team

    Do those count as indicators?
    Definitely, everyone with an IQ over 80 takes classic BC and maybe even LK granted. It soo clearly has to happen, it's very low effort for a lot of sub money, no company would ever decline that.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmatrix View Post
    What's with the TBC talk lately, is this a real thing or just another case of players hyping themselves up over speculation?
    Try reading the thread.

  8. #48
    High Overlord konway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    What parts did they ruin exactly?

    Give specifics
    • Failure to manage faction balance + early free transfers completely destroyed entire servers.
    • Starting with 1.12 talents, stats and raid nerfs trivialized most of the content.
    • Megaservers with 3-4x Vanilla populations killed close-knit server communities (layering didn't help either).
    • Megaservers + extreme faction imbalance killed world PvP -- minority factions got camped everywhere while majority faction steamrolled everything.
    • Massive cutback on GMs allowed bots and gold-sellers to run wild and ruined the economy.
    • Failure to adjust resource spawns to fit population made the economy even worse.
    • Jumping straight to cross-server BGs was another blow to PvP and server communities.

  9. #49
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoddzero View Post
    If we've learned anything from Classic, it's probably that the content is incredibly easy for modern day players. Same will likely go for TBC, even with its pre-nerfed content. TBC will be a bigger challenge but I think we can still expect casual guilds to steamroll through it without problems.

    So I've been thinking about what class/spec/build to go with for TBC and as a semi-casual I've come to the conclusion I'm just gonna pick one that is fun to play. Right now I'm leaning towards going full destro Warlock with Shadowfury, because it is just that, a ton of fun, unlike its optimal specs for PvE or PvP. I will welcome the challenge of playing sub-optimally as well.

    Will you like me just go with fun spec/builds or will you aim for the optimal ones? I suppose it all depends on how hardcore you intend to be.
    Good for you...it is probably what the 999.900 ppl do that also play WoW and not hang out on a forum that tells them "everyone" will min / max and shut you out.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    • Failure to manage faction balance + early free transfers completely destroyed entire servers.
    • Starting with 1.12 talents, stats and raid nerfs trivialized most of the content.
    • Megaservers with 3-4x Vanilla populations killed close-knit server communities (layering didn't help either).
    • Megaservers + extreme faction imbalance killed world PvP -- minority factions got camped everywhere while majority faction steamrolled everything.
    • Massive cutback on GMs allowed bots and gold-sellers to run wild and ruined the economy.
    • Failure to adjust resource spawns to fit population made the economy even worse.
    • Jumping straight to cross-server BGs was another blow to PvP and server communities.
    1. They didnt do this in vanilla either. They didnt ruin anything by doing this, it was simply players ruining it.
    2. Starting with those talents made a few things easier. You see how ez AQ 40 and naxx was cleared either way. Wouldnt have made any difference whatsoever if raggy took 5 seconds longer to kill
    3. There where no megaservers with 3-4x vanilla pop
    4. GM's have absolutely nothing to do with botters. Inform yourself.
    5. Adjusting resource spawns where done VERY VERY LITTLE in vanilla. What are you on about?
    6. Most people didnt give 2 shits about pvp. They had to enable cross server bg's because otherwise you would never get in a bg.

    You are horriblyt misinformed about almost everything you say. As i expected

  11. #51
    High Overlord konway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    1. They didnt do this in vanilla either. They didnt ruin anything by doing this, it was simply players ruining it.
    2. Starting with those talents made a few things easier. You see how ez AQ 40 and naxx was cleared either way. Wouldnt have made any difference whatsoever if raggy took 5 seconds longer to kill
    3. There where no megaservers with 3-4x vanilla pop
    4. GM's have absolutely nothing to do with botters. Inform yourself.
    5. Adjusting resource spawns where done VERY VERY LITTLE in vanilla. What are you on about?
    6. Most people didnt give 2 shits about pvp. They had to enable cross server bg's because otherwise you would never get in a bg.

    You are horriblyt misinformed about almost everything you say. As i expected
    I can see why you were banned, shame they didn't make it permanent.

    1. Everyone knew faction balance would be a problem before Classic was even announced, that's why private servers added faction-specific queues and sometimes even offered incentives to pick Alliance instead of Horde. Blizzard's failure to account for this can only be explained by laziness and/or incompetence. On top of that, they didn't even make faction data available to players so they could make an informed choice when picking a server.
    2. There's a drastic difference between 1.1 and 1.12. Fury warriors weren't even viable in 1.1, in 1.12 they're laughably overpowered to the point that raids often stack 15+.
    3. Ion Hazzikostas said that each layer held the population of an entire Vanilla server. That's literally the definition of a megaserver.
    4. You just made this up.
    5. You completely missed the point.
    6. You just made this up.

    Come on... you can do better.

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