1. #2361
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    There's literally a rock n roll band in WoW though? (Elite Tauren Chieftians)
    Which, is a joke. You can't have a Rock N' Roll class in a fantasy game.

    Bards are characters who perform songs in public. Night elf bards were known to perform in the Temple of the Moon in Darnassus.



    Wedding Hymn - Plays a wedding hymn that restores the mana and health of nearby allies.
    Dark Song
    Chilling Song
    Peaceful Song











    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Two. The Blight Boars.
    I hope you're not in favor of a MODERN musician class in WoW.

    Noticed how General Zanjin and Imperator, suddenly, vanished when Teriz got banned? how suspicious...

    Murmur's abilities could serve as an inspiration:


    Sonic Boom — Murmur releases a massive burst of sonic energy that blasts players within 0 yards with Nature damage, then inflicts additional Nature damage every 3 seconds for 9 sec. While affected by Sonic Boom, movement speed is reduced by 90%.

    Magnetic Pull — Murmur pulls all players towards him.

    Murmur's Touch — Murmur touches a player, causing the air around them to pulse with sonic energy for 14 sec. When Murmur's Touch fades, a shockwave of energy inflicts 3563 to 3937 Nature damage and silences all players within 0 yards of the player that was touched for 6 sec.

    Murmur's Touch — Murmur touches a player, causing the air around them to pulse with sonic energy for 7 sec, pulling all other players towards them. When Murmur's Touch fades, a shockwave of energy inflicts 3563 to 3937 Nature damage and silences all players within 0 yards of the player that was touched for 6 sec.

    Sonic Shock — Murmur shocks a player, inflicting 1875 to 3125 Arcane damage to his current target.
    Spell arcane arcane01.png Thundering Storm — Murmur throws sonic bolts at any player further than 25 yards from him, inflicting 2125 to 2875 Nature damage.

    Resonance — When there are no players within melee range of Murmur, he inflicts 2000 Nature damage to all players and increases their Nature damage taken by 2000 for 45 sec.
    Last edited by Unbelievable; 2021-01-03 at 06:38 PM.

  2. #2362
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    Which, is a joke. You can't have a Rock N' Roll class in a fantasy game.



    I hope you're not in favor of a MODERN musician class in WoW.

    Noticed how General Zanjin and Imperator, suddenly, vanished when Teriz got banned? how suspicious...
    Ozzy literally summoning a crazy train

  3. #2363
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Ozzy literally summoning a crazy train
    There's an NPC based on Ozzy Osbourne?

  4. #2364
    Wait, rocknroll would be a joke, but those dwarf bards are serious business?
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  5. #2365
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Wait, rocknroll would be a joke, but those dwarf bards are serious business?
    Yes. because they use instruments (and music) that wouldn't seem out of place in a fantasy RPG.

  6. #2366
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    Yes. because they use instruments (and music) that wouldn't seem out of place in a fantasy RPG.
    you DO know that WoW is way beyond fantasy and electricity is a thing in azeroth?
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  7. #2367
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    So much wow in this argument.

    First of all: The Pandaren Brewmaster is based off of Jackie Chan's role in Drunken Master, which was based off of this. The unit from WC3 has a stereotypical Asian accent, wears Asian garb and uses a fighting style based on actual Asian martial arts. So... You guys can just quit that whole thing.

    Second, why in the actual fuck does cultural reasoning for class restrictions matter so much to you people at this point? You're using it purely for the sake of one-upping each other in this argument. Several race-class combos make 0 sense from an in-universe perspective, we've known for a long time that class restrictions are about faction balance. Most of the lore reasoning they give for a race being unable to choose a specific class is weak and quite easy to debunk (from an in-universe perspective or otherwise). Cherry picking any of them for the purpose of winning an argument of lore-based reasoning doesn't make sense, because most of the class restrictions don't make sense. Vulpera couldn't be Tinkers because they lack technological superiority? Yet they can be engineers. Gnomes can be Warriors with the same level of capability as a Tauren Warrior. Orcs Mages can practice the Arcane with as much potency as Nightborne Mages. There is no significant distinction between their capabilities because it's a video game.

    This is an argument about the next possible playable class in the general discussion section of the forums. It's not in the lore section, so stop arguing about lore.
    Check out the Drakonaar, my playable race concept! (WIP -- Looking for artists)


  8. #2368
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    you DO know that WoW is way beyond fantasy and electricity is a thing in azeroth?
    Yes. Mostly, for engineering. I can't see a Bard, using an electric guitar.

    The reason you've seen the concept of bards with electric guitars is:
    1) Guitar Hero was a popular game when the concept was conceived.
    2) Former Blizzard developers were Rock fans and metalheads.

    This:


    is a joke on this:


    This:


    is an April Fool's joke of this:


    This:


    is a joke on this:


    These:


    Are a joke on these:






    If you don't see it then, i can't help you.
    Last edited by Unbelievable; 2021-01-03 at 11:11 PM.

  9. #2369
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    I hope you're not in favor of a MODERN musician class in WoW.
    Of course not. Just pointing out there's two bands in the Darkmoon Fair isle, now.

    Murmur's abilities could serve as an inspiration:

    Sonic Boom — Murmur releases a massive burst of sonic energy that blasts players within 0 yards with Nature damage, then inflicts additional Nature damage every 3 seconds for 9 sec. While affected by Sonic Boom, movement speed is reduced by 90%.

    Magnetic Pull — Murmur pulls all players towards him.

    Murmur's Touch — Murmur touches a player, causing the air around them to pulse with sonic energy for 14 sec. When Murmur's Touch fades, a shockwave of energy inflicts 3563 to 3937 Nature damage and silences all players within 0 yards of the player that was touched for 6 sec.

    Murmur's Touch — Murmur touches a player, causing the air around them to pulse with sonic energy for 7 sec, pulling all other players towards them. When Murmur's Touch fades, a shockwave of energy inflicts 3563 to 3937 Nature damage and silences all players within 0 yards of the player that was touched for 6 sec.

    Sonic Shock — Murmur shocks a player, inflicting 1875 to 3125 Arcane damage to his current target.
    Spell arcane arcane01.png Thundering Storm — Murmur throws sonic bolts at any player further than 25 yards from him, inflicting 2125 to 2875 Nature damage.

    Resonance — When there are no players within melee range of Murmur, he inflicts 2000 Nature damage to all players and increases their Nature damage taken by 2000 for 45 sec.
    I used to use Murmur as a "proof of concept" that sound can have magic effects, but I think nowadays he's not needed anymore. Murmur's abilities are based on just raw sounds (i.e. sonic energy) whereas, as far as I am aware, the bard concept is about music. Like the first guys you posted pictures of.

    There is also the first boss of the Halls of Origination who has a song spell: Reverberating Hymn.

    On top of that, we don't need to have music instruments as a weapon. There are a quite a few music-playing animations in the game already, like playing a flue, playing a guitar, and playing a lyre. Just use them as special cast animations like the paladin has the "flipping pages" animation, give them one-handed melee weapons and/or ranged weapons, and we're golden.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2021-01-04 at 03:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  10. #2370
    Bards are a somewhat underused fantasy/D&D archetype at least in video games and I think more potential there than most, I think having a system similar to how blessing of seasons for Night Fae Paladins where they cycle through a series of buffs/debuffs to allies and enemies with some ability to control it (for when they need say more defense/healing or more damage on demand) could be interesting, i suspect most covenant abilities will become talents in the future especially the really good ones or could become elements of future classes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    There is also the first boss of the Halls of Origination who has a song spell: Reverberating Hymn.
    Think that case is more of a Divine/Holy power (similar to how priests have divine hymn or Naaru songs) rather than the music itself having power which is generally the concept associated with Bards (they're typically associated with arcane magic which at least in D&D of course a WoW version wouldn't need to be an arcane user)

    "In the worlds of D&D, words and music are not just vibrations of air, but vocalizations with power all their own. The bard is a master of song, speech, and the magic they contain. Bards say that the multiverse was spoken into existence, that the words of the gods gave it shape, and that echoes of these primordial Words of Creation still resound throughout the cosmos. The music of bards is an attempt to snatch and harness those echoes, subtly woven into their spells and powers."

    Guess we do already have power words (and holy & shadow words) so the concept of vocalizations having specific power isn't too out there

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    On top of that, we don't need to have music instruments as a weapon. There are a quite a few music-playing animations in the game already, like playing a flue, playing a guitar, and playing a lyre. Just use them as special cast animations like the paladin has the "flipping pages" animation, give them one-handed melee weapons and/or ranged weapons, and we're golden.
    Theres also potential for some fun customization there through gylphs or other methods of switching instruments (adding bards to major cities who can preform the service) Orcs (drawing from the kodo riders from WC3) could start with war drums, Nightborne could start with harps, Humans could have lutes, ect

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    I just hope it isn't a joke Rock N' Roll class. Keep it tied to medieval instruments.
    I think as something optional adding a electric guitar as some secret unlockable wouldn't be too bad but the default should be medieval instruments (especially since the Rock N' Roll stuff we've seen is mostly jokes/easter eggs/references and not exactly parts of the worldbuilding)


    Personally what i'd like most is something like an battlemage/spellsword (not as a full class but as a mage spec) that works similarly to the Red Mage in Final Fantasy XIV or the Knight Enchanter from Dragon Age Inquisition a normally ranged damage dealer who "charges" themselves up using their spells (through a system similar white/black magic or spirit blade charges) to fight in melee, sort of like an inverse of how Enhancement Shamans currently work with their maelstom weapon passive.
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-01-04 at 05:15 AM.

  11. #2371
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    Given that majority of my posts on this thread were me disagreeing with Teriz I don't see the logic of me being a Teriz sockpuppet unless Teriz is really dedicated to debating with himself.

    Basically the only thing i agreed with him on is "Tinkers are a viable class" even then I disagreed with his interpretation what a of a Tinker style class could be.

    I don't have much of an opinion on Bards, think they're an somewhat underused fantasy/D&D archetype and I think more potential there than most, I think having a system similar to how blessing of seasons for Night Fae Paladins where they cycle through a series of buffs/debuffs to allies and enemies with some ability to control it (for when they need say more defense/healing or more damage on demand) could be interesting, i suspect most covenant abilities will become talents in the future especially the really good ones or could become elements of future classes

    Personally what i'd like most is something like an battlemage/spellsword (not as a full class but as a mage spec) that works similarly to the Red Mage in Final Fantasy XIV or the Knight Enchanter from Dragon Age Inquisition a normally ranged damage dealer who "charges" themselves up using their spells (through a system similar white/black magic or spirit blade charges) to fight in melee, sort of like an inverse of how Enhancement Shamans currently work with their maelstom weapon passive.
    I just wanted to say something:

    I am not the author of that phrase.

    It was the poster I responded to. I forgot to delete that line and it ended up as part of my post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  12. #2372
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Of course not. Just pointing out there's two bands in the Darkmoon Fair isle, now.


    I used to use Murmur as a "proof of concept" that sound can have magic effects, but I think nowadays he's not needed anymore. Murmur's abilities are based on just raw sounds (i.e. sonic energy) whereas, as far as I am aware, the bard concept is about music. Like the first guys you posted pictures of.

    There is also the first boss of the Halls of Origination who has a song spell: Reverberating Hymn.

    On top of that, we don't need to have music instruments as a weapon. There are a quite a few music-playing animations in the game already, like playing a flue, playing a guitar, and playing a lyre. Just use them as special cast animations like the paladin has the "flipping pages" animation, give them one-handed melee weapons and/or ranged weapons, and we're golden.
    How about using Lúcio, as an inspiration (not direct copy but, simply, as an inspiration for what the abilities can do)?:


    Soundwave
    30 Mana Cooldown: 7 seconds
    Deal 105 damage to enemies in an area and knock them back.

    Crossfade
    Cooldown: 0.5 seconds
    Play one of two musics tracks for Lúcio and his allies.
    Healing Boost: Passively heal Lúcio and nearby allied Heroes for 15 health per second.
    Speed Boost: Increase the Movement Speed of Lúcio and nearby allied Heroes by 10%.

    Amp It Up
    90 Mana Cooldown: 13 seconds
    Raise Lucio's Crossfade track volume for 3 seconds, amping Healing Boost to 112 health per second and Speed Boost to 30% increased Movement Speed.

    Sound Barrier
    100 Mana Cooldown: 80 seconds
    After a 1 second delay, grant yourself and all nearby allied Heroes a 1296 point shield that rapidly decays over 6 seconds.

    Music box
    Cooldown: 20 seconds
    Active: Place a Music Box that plays Lúcio's active Crossfade track for 30 seconds. Its volume adjusts with Amp It Up.
    Crossfade tracks do not stack.

    Up to Eleven
    Cooldown: 60 seconds
    Active: Activate to extend the duration of Amp It Up by 2 seconds.

    Summer Anthem
    Cooldown: 75 seconds
    Active: Activate for all other allies affected by Crossfade to become Unkillable for 1.5 seconds.

    Sonic Amplifier
    Lúcio can hit his enemies with sonic projectiles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    I think as something optional adding a electric guitar as some secret unlockable wouldn't be too bad but the default should be medieval instruments (especially since the Rock N' Roll stuff we've seen is mostly jokes/easter eggs/references and not exactly parts of the worldbuilding)
    oh, so you haven't vanished alongside Teriz's ban. That leaves us with General Zanjin.

    As for electric guitars. I can, only, see them being used as part of Gnomish/Goblin Engineering.

  13. #2373
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    How about using Lúcio, as an inspiration (not direct copy but, simply, as an inspiration for what the abilities can do)?:
    I don't think Blizzard should or even has to look to sci-fi games for inspiration to design a bard-like class.

    The fantasy trope of the bard, along with the D&D game bard concept works more than enough as a template for inspiration, IMO: we have a traveling minstrel, playing music with his instruments that can cause all sorts of magical effects on allies and foes, and who is quite adept at combat using a one-handed weapon, or a ranged weapon.

    We have all of that in the game's lore already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  14. #2374
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    Something with a minion focus, and ranged attacks. Such as a necromancer. Like a constant army of dead at your disposal.

    Another one I would play is a divine spellcaster dps. Similar to a retribution paladin, but not melee.

    Shadowlands is such an unique place that they missed a great opportunity to make a new class.

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  15. #2375
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    Something with a minion focus, and ranged attacks. Such as a necromancer. Like a constant army of dead at your disposal.

    Another one I would play is a divine spellcaster dps. Similar to a retribution paladin, but not melee.

    Shadowlands is such an unique place that they missed a great opportunity to make a new class.
    they probably had a class planned but were so behind they didnt show it at blizzcon then the pandemic killed it

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't think Blizzard should or even has to look to sci-fi games for inspiration to design a bard-like class.

    The fantasy trope of the bard, along with the D&D game bard concept works more than enough as a template for inspiration, IMO: we have a traveling minstrel, playing music with his instruments that can cause all sorts of magical effects on allies and foes, and who is quite adept at combat using a one-handed weapon, or a ranged weapon.

    We have all of that in the game's lore already.
    different specs would cover
    college of blades
    college of valor
    college of eloquence

    that way you have support spec AND we finally get a ranged spec kinda

  16. #2376
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't think Blizzard should or even has to look to sci-fi games for inspiration to design a bard-like class.

    The fantasy trope of the bard, along with the D&D game bard concept works more than enough as a template for inspiration, IMO: we have a traveling minstrel, playing music with his instruments that can cause all sorts of magical effects on allies and foes, and who is quite adept at combat using a one-handed weapon, or a ranged weapon.

    We have all of that in the game's lore already.
    You want to add DnD Bard to a game that doesn't have a support role?

  17. #2377
    what game need now is wardens(to keep demon hunters under control how is posible a lot of demonhunters free,and 0 wardens watching them?xd),necromancers (i acept unholy rework to plate-caster),knights (warrior new spec or talent,would be nice a talent for warrior tanks can fight riding on their mount always ,giving them mobility y endurance,same for paladins or dk,or exclusive for warrior?i dont know...),a third demon hunter spec ranged with bow and magic(np if in the lore demon hunters havent bow,illidan had a bow,what elf havent a bow?xd....dark ranger may be for hunters,new spec or mm rework?

    after these, I wouldn't care if bards or any rare class that you imagine came along.
    Last edited by Capultro; 2021-01-04 at 05:10 PM.

  18. #2378
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't think Blizzard should or even has to look to sci-fi games for inspiration to design a bard-like class.

    The fantasy trope of the bard, along with the D&D game bard concept works more than enough as a template for inspiration, IMO: we have a traveling minstrel, playing music with his instruments that can cause all sorts of magical effects on allies and foes, and who is quite adept at combat using a one-handed weapon, or a ranged weapon.

    We have all of that in the game's lore already.
    It's a blizzard game, after all. Overwatch does have some parallelism with WoW classes. For example: Junkrat and Roadhoag being the iconic Goblin and Ogre (or, Hobgoblin) combination (brains and brawn), Reindhart and Brigitte being some kind of a Warrior and a Paladin (or Diablo III's crusader), Genji being some kind of a Blademaster, Hanzo being an Archer, Mei being some kind of a frost mage, Reaper being some kind of a Necromancer, Torbjorn being some kind of an engineer, Windowmaker being based on Sylvanas, Mercy and Moira representing the Priest's Light and Void, and Zenyatta being a Monk (more of a Diablo III one).

    All i'm saying is, it can give us a clue as to how the class will, probably, play out like.

  19. #2379
    I personally find it difficult to accept a Bard as its own class given that Blizzard treats classes as something much more rare and special than say Races which they have freed up to add en masse.

    If they are more flexible with the Class system (ie prestige classes/class skins) then I can see Bard fitting in. Otherwise I find it difficult to realistically represent in WoW given the Holy Trinity and homogenization in place.

    Sure, they could come up with a Bard concept that is super unique and fits in a unique Support role in the game, but I doubt that will ever happen considering the direction the game has taken over the years. In Vanilla WoW, maybe. Now, after following up DK's, Monks and DH, probably not.

    The concept just isn't 'cool' enough to exist. It's much too niche and there isn't a solid identity behind it the way other known Warcraft class tropes have been fleshed out. Even the Spellbreaker has a stronger identity to it than Bards do. I'd love to see Blizzard do a Bard concept, but I feel like it would have to be added as a Class skin along other B-Tier concepts, or perhaps as a Profession that allows active combat abilities, similar to Engineering or Profession buffs.


    I think as a Profession, with the right support this idea could really take off and let anyone be a Bard alongside their main class. It wouldn't impact the current Holy Trinity dynamic, it would be able to provide plenty of Support, it maintains a full Musical theme, and it doesn't require adding new weapon drops throughout the game like Harps, Lutes or Drums with stats. As a profession, they could also tie in some actual music playing out of combat, letting people play actual songs or just troll away as they please.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-01-04 at 06:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  20. #2380
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    different specs would cover
    college of blades
    college of valor
    college of eloquence

    that way you have support spec AND we finally get a ranged spec kinda
    No support spec. The game does not support a support spec. But going for the names you mentioned, I can see the 'Blades' spec being the melee spec, the 'Valor' spec being the healer spec, and 'Eloquence' being the spellcaster spec.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    You want to add DnD Bard to a game that doesn't have a support role?
    Would be kind and not be dishonest by misrepresenting what other people post?

    I never said I want the D&D bard nor have I ever said I want a support class or that bards "have to be" a support class. I only said to get inspiration of the concept of the bard, not the mechanics.

    You are being incredibly obtuse and playing dumb, considering I've said, to you alone, that this concept that "bard must be support" is wrong three times already:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Which I truly hope is not what they do. WarCraft does not have the proper environment for a Bard. They got rid of the Support role, and a Bard that cannot Support is not a Bard at all.
    This notion that bards can only be support classes need to die, really. It's completely not based in reality, considering that a bard class can easily fit in WoW's class system with two DPS and one healing spec, for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    May as well add a Priest that can't heal while we're at it.
    You do know that a class can offer buffs without being a support class, right? And, again, I'll repeat: this notion that bards can only be support classes needs to die.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    There is always going to be a little overlap. The ability to point at that overlap doesn't mean that it renders my point moot. There is no primary support role in WoW. To do a Bard justice and make full use of the concept as it has been used for half a century in the role-playing world, a Bard needs to be a primary support.
    No. No, it does not. The bard concept does not need to exclusively be a "support class" to be viable and still be a bard.
    And yet you've apparently ignored it all the other times I've said that to you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    It's a blizzard game, after all. Overwatch does have some parallelism with WoW classes. For example: Junkrat and Roadhoag being the iconic Goblin and Ogre (or, Hobgoblin) combination (brains and brawn), Reindhart and Brigitte being some kind of a Warrior and a Paladin (or Diablo III's crusader), Genji being some kind of a Blademaster, Hanzo being an Archer, Mei being some kind of a frost mage, Reaper being some kind of a Necromancer, Torbjorn being some kind of an engineer, Windowmaker being based on Sylvanas, Mercy and Moira representing the Priest's Light and Void, and Zenyatta being a Monk (more of a Diablo III one).

    All i'm saying is, it can give us a clue as to how the class will, probably, play out like.
    Not going to say it's impossible, but I will say I find it highly unlikely.

    The whole idea of the bard is that they play the instruments and sing. Lucio... doesn't. He has everything pre-recorded and plays his music with his devices. Plus the bard wouldn't be anywhere near as mobile as Lucio is, too. In fact, I fully expect the class to be one of the least mobile in the game, if implemented.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

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