1. #3221
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    And if the Mech is a cooldown or a builder/spender, you would be spending a lot of time using your claw pack for... well... claw packy things. This would both allow them to faithfully recreat the concept as a claw pack was originally part of it, and also make the claw pack a useful thing and a unique part of being a Tinker. Win/win.
    I had a lengthy response, but it got eaten up by the forum somehow. Anyway, I wanted to say that I could actually see the RDPS spec go that route. It reminds me of old demonology (WoD), which was a solid spec and pretty dynamic. However, that play style wouldn’t work for the tank spec, and for tanking a permanent mech would be a better way to go.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-01-21 at 03:31 AM.

  2. #3222
    How is this dumpster fire going still??

    Why is it going???

    I figure “hey new pages maybe new class discussions” nope it’s the same tinker BS back and forth over and over fuck me man

    You all know that no matter what you say to Teriz no matter how many times you show facts and no matter how much you show him to be a turnstile with a midget kink that he will never relent. It’s well over 120 pages of just god damn tinker BS with 50 of it being Teriz making a claim 20 pages of ppl pointing out he’s shit and 50 more of “well here’s the new requirement”

    There’s no discussion here that can’t be solved by you three going into discord and screeching in voice comms because that’s essentially what’s going on right now with no sense of coherent thought in the entire chat.

    Let him wank himself off to the fan concept he’s obsessed with because by the end he will simply change it to fit reality and claim “ha I told you” I mean the guy said ghostbuster tinkers would be a thing in shadowlands over necromancer last peak season.


    Somebody for the love of god either burn this trash fire from the internet or ignore the short bus

  3. #3223
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Yeah it's crazy how easily he flips to suit his agenda. He was constantly going on about how engineers aren't tinkers cause they don't invent things on their own they use schematics and Tinkers should be this amazingly smart create shit on the spot type of person then he going 200 pages on G.M.O.D when the dude who pilots it knows very little about tech and didn't even invent the thing.
    That's called being a "Master Manipulator".

    Now that people are, actually, discussing the Tinker concept, and he doesn't need to convince them anymore, using the claw pack argument, he's unloading his true intentions - diverting people into a constant mech Tinker idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    Just because it was an ultimate ability in WC3 doesn't mean it will become a core aspect of a class across all specs, here is a list of all the "ultimate abilities" from WC3 that became standard rotation abilities that work on short cooldowns or resource: Earthquake, Starfall, Death and Decay.

    Here are the "ultimate abilities" that became standard big (1.5 minutes or more) dps/tanking/healing cooldowns specific to certain specs: Tranquility (Restoration Druid), Storm, Earth, And Fire (Windwalker), Animate Dead/Army of the Dead (Unholy)

    The only "ultimate ability" that became a core element of a WoW class in the transition between WC3 and WoW is Metamorphosis which became a big dps/tanking cooldown ability and several talent choices allowing for temporary Metamorphosis, this is the only Ultimate which created a core gameplay element of a WoW class, all the others became spec specific abilities that operate as either a rotation, resource or cooldown based system.

    I'm genuinely not getting this perception you've invented that the WC3 hero units are created on a near 1:1 transition majority of "ultimate abilities" belonging to WC3 units didn't even get put into WoW (if thats the case wheres a combat rez for paladins or wheres phoenix summon for fire mages) WC3 is not held on this sacred pedestal, Blizzard mines it for concepts the same way they mine other material for concepts, like how chinese culture/mysticism became the basis for literally everything in the Monk class that didn't involve brewing like Celestials (who are based on the cardinal guardians), Wuxia-style martial arts and Chi

    If a Tinker (or whatever the class would be called) gets put into to WoW is there a chance that some form of mech would be utilized? yes, Will it become a ability used by all potential specs? I doubt it since the gameplay concept a "mech" creates is A: better armor B: better melee capabilities C: stronger weaponry (cannons, flamethrowers), majority of those in gameplay terms to me sound like tanking concepts, especially given that the common perception of a Engineer/Artificer style class is that of a primarily ranged fighter (guns, explosives, ect) if the Tinker ultimate Robo-Goblin became a WoW ability I see it being a cooldown or a "form" for a tanking spec built around the concept of using a mech instead of an ability that all specs would have.



    I'm actually sort of impressed at the degree of moving the goalpost moving on display all in the name of keeping a class limited to some of the least popular races in the game.

    First it was that visuals of a Tinker class don't suit anyone but Goblins/Gnomes which is a fair point but plenty of race/class combos have inconsistent visuals such as Kul Tiran & Zandalari druids having unique shapeshift visuals but standard visuals for their spells, or Night Elf Priests having golden light instead of moonlight visuals, Draenei mechs being unique but having more standard visuals isn't that out of the question, and stuff like Dwarf/Orc engineering isn't even that visually different from Gnome/Goblin engineering.

    Then it was that no race but Gnome/Goblins fit Claw-packs due to their height which is flawed for a number of reasons one is assuming that claw-packs would be a core part of the class (visuals like that aren't usually attached to models like that on a permanent basis look at DH wings.), second would be the visual/animation issues claw-packs create even with dimunitive races, also ignoring that dwarves are only marginally taller than gnomes/goblins so wouldn't even have said issues.)

    Then it became that only Gnome/Goblin mechs are small enough to not create issues with size in terms of clarity for dungeon/raid mechanics which is another potentially fair point but ignores that A: is the Gnome/Goblin mech seriously only going to be 6-7ft tall? that would look utterly pathetic on a visual/power fantasy level B: there are workarounds such as having larger races sit/crouch to operate a mech C: Dwarves are once again only marginally taller than Gnomes/Goblins and wouldn't have these size issues.
    As i said above - "Master Manipulator".

    We might have not seen eye to eye in regards to Dark Ranger, Priestess of the Moon, Sea Witch, Shadow Hunter, Blademaster and Warden but, at least, i have been consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, that's a typo because it doesn't look like a Shredder it looks like a Reaver, and it was introduced in Legion. Also it's listed as a Reaver on the Reaver page and its not listed as a Shredder at all on the Shredder mech page.



    It's supposed to be an arrow with a stick of dynamite attached. They simply use that for the graphic.



    Robo Goblin has 2 types of shields in HotS, so I don't see why there wouldn't be a force field. Beyond that, you're more than likely looking at abilities similar to the nearly 2 dozen Tinker abilities and passives in WC3, HotS, and Island Expedition.



    Not really, since the main point of a Blademaster is a master swordsman. You can accomplish that with Arms Warrior.



    Yeah, because a new race, new class, and a new continent were the main selling points of that expansion.



    The Claw Pack was in WC3 and HotS to make a Goblin character easier to see from the top-down perspective of the RTS game. Blizzard made it part of its ability set by connecting it to Robo Goblin.

    You do it that way because the main selling point of the class is the mech, and the mech is what gives the class it's uniqueness and "cool" factor. Making it a wacky variation of the Hunter class simply doesn't work.

    The user base has demonstrated that they want a mech-based class in WoW akin to Mekkatorque, so give them what they want. Also I really wouldn't want to limit a mech to just tanking. DPS players are going to want to be able to pilot a mech as well.
    How convenient that it is a typo on my part but, not on yours.

    Once again, showing that they're inconsistent with their visual representation of abilities.

    Oh, so now Island Expeditions are canon Tinker abilities? Yet, Mekkatorque isn't? how convenient. Do these dozens of abilities have World Enlarger, Discombobulation and Spark bot?

    The main point of a Blademaster is being a Samurai. An affliction Warlock's necromantic themes can accomplish the Death Knight fantasy, if you rely on Death Coil as a representative.

    Selling points are the main themes of the expansion. Do you think allied races had nothing to do with the faction war? does Torghast has nothing to do with the Death theme of Shadowlands? Do Demon Hunters have nothing to do with the demonic theme of Legion? You are delusional if you think MoP isn't about Pandaren. Yes, the story diverged into Garrosh but, the Pandaren are the central part.

    So, the claw pack is, merely, a visual identification? Then, why argue about the differences of a Hunter/Engineer explosives to those of a Tinker using a claw pack, like you have been doing for the past 100 pages?

    The main selling point of a Demon Hunter is the Metamorphosis. It's the cool factor. They don't base it on that.

    Oh, so now you speak on behalf of the playerbase? Because the "playerbase"'s desires align, suspiciously, with yours.
    I'll tell you what it is. It's your egocentrism talking on behalf of the "playerbase".

    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    How is this dumpster fire going still??

    Why is it going???

    I figure “hey new pages maybe new class discussions” nope it’s the same tinker BS back and forth over and over fuck me man

    You all know that no matter what you say to Teriz no matter how many times you show facts and no matter how much you show him to be a turnstile with a midget kink that he will never relent. It’s well over 120 pages of just god damn tinker BS with 50 of it being Teriz making a claim 20 pages of ppl pointing out he’s shit and 50 more of “well here’s the new requirement”

    There’s no discussion here that can’t be solved by you three going into discord and screeching in voice comms because that’s essentially what’s going on right now with no sense of coherent thought in the entire chat.

    Let him wank himself off to the fan concept he’s obsessed with because by the end he will simply change it to fit reality and claim “ha I told you” I mean the guy said ghostbuster tinkers would be a thing in shadowlands over necromancer last peak season.


    Somebody for the love of god either burn this trash fire from the internet or ignore the short bus
    You got that right

    The only problem is that he's a loud minority. and loud minorities, often, silence the normative majority, using manipulation and demagogy.

    Someone have got to keep him and his bullshit in check. Otherwise, people who read this thread would think the Tinker is the only prime candidate out there, and no other classes are.
    Last edited by Unbelievable; 2021-01-21 at 12:32 PM.

  4. #3224
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    How convenient that it is a typo on my part but, not on yours.

    Once again, showing that they're inconsistent with their visual representation of abilities.
    Which doesn't change the fact that it's supposed to be an arrow with a stick of dynamite. Hence why you can shoot it from a bow.

    Oh, so now Island Expeditions are canon Tinker abilities? Yet, Mekkatorque isn't? how convenient. Do these dozens of abilities have World Enlarger, Discombobulation and Spark bot?
    They always have been. They're abilities alongside HotS Tinker abilities, so we should assume that they're part of the concept as well.

    Mekkatorque's abilities are less likely, but still possible.

    Selling points are the main themes of the expansion. Do you think allied races had nothing to do with the faction war? does Torghast has nothing to do with the Death theme of Shadowlands? Do Demon Hunters have nothing to do with the demonic theme of Legion? You are delusional if you think MoP isn't about Pandaren. Yes, the story diverged into Garrosh but, the Pandaren are the central part.
    Yeah, I never said MoP wasn't about Pandaren (and even that is arguable), I said that MoP didn't center on Pandaren.

    So, the claw pack is, merely, a visual identification? Then, why argue about the differences of a Hunter/Engineer explosives to those of a Tinker using a claw pack, like you have been doing for the past 100 pages?
    No, the Claw Pack is a possible ability within the Tinker class. Simply because I personally would prefer a pure mech concept doesn't mean that the contraption doesn't have a high chance of making it into the actual class. Why? Because it's part of Tinker lore, and Blizzard has used it as a significant marker for the Tinker concept since WC3, and is seen over and over again in Warcraft content.

    The main selling point of a Demon Hunter is the Metamorphosis. It's the cool factor. They don't base it on that.
    They based it on that so much that they wouldn't bring the class into the game until Metamorphosis was decoupled from the Warlock class.

    Oh, so now you speak on behalf of the playerbase? Because the "playerbase"'s desires align, suspiciously, with yours.
    I'll tell you what it is. It's your egocentrism talking on behalf of the "playerbase".
    Why else do you think the Tinker beats out other classes in multiple polls? It's not because people have a "tech hunter" concept in their heads. It's because they see Mekkatorque, Gazlowe, Gallywix, or Blackfuse and want a class that emulates that concept.


    You got that right

    The only problem is that he's a loud minority. and loud minorities, often, silence the normative majority, using manipulation and demagogy.

    Someone have got to keep him and his bullshit in check. Otherwise, people who read this thread would think the Tinker is the only prime candidate out there, and no other classes are.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0

    I definitely wouldn't consider myself a minority.

  5. #3225
    Next person to say "tinker" is a dirty mouth breather and should go and apologize a tree for the oxygen they have wasted thus far.
    New class ideas that dont revolve around tech, sylvanas or necromancy since those ships have sailed a away in legion, bfa or SL

  6. #3226
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Engineering has plenty of rochets, and has healing lasers and bandage gun.

    Engineering has turrets, lasers, bombs and shields, so I don't know what the issue is.

    So again, why aren't they in the profession if the Tinker and Alchemist were turned into a profession?
    Read above. Their concepts are in the profession with functionalities similar enough to be considered adaptations.

    Maybe they thought Army of the Dead was more appropriate. Animate Dead is used by quite a few Necromancer mobs in WoW, and it's a single skeleton summoning ability.
    So what? It's a class ability. We have class abilities sharing names with other NPC abilities that do things differently.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0

    I definitely wouldn't consider myself a minority.
    You are the minority. Because your concept is not what all the people want in a tech class. Not to mention we have people here saying they've turned away from the concept because of you, too.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  7. #3227
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Engineering has plenty of rochets, and has healing lasers and bandage gun.


    Engineering has turrets, lasers, bombs and shields, so I don't know what the issue is.


    Read above. Their concepts are in the profession with functionalities similar enough to be considered adaptations.
    But we have the translated abilities in WoW already, so why are we looking at items that don't share the name, function, or purpose of the actual Tinker/Achemist abilities from WC3 and HotS that are currently in WoW?

    Also if Blizzard's goal was to translate the Tinker and Alchemist into the professions, why leave out their abilities and not translate those abilities into items?

    You are the minority. Because your concept is not what all the people want in a tech class. Not to mention we have people here saying they've turned away from the concept because of you, too.
    I'm sure both of those individuals were already opposed to the Tinker concept long before I came along. Put that poll back up for 10.0, and you're going to get the same results.

  8. #3228
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which doesn't change the fact that it's supposed to be an arrow with a stick of dynamite. Hence why you can shoot it from a bow.



    They always have been. They're abilities alongside HotS Tinker abilities, so we should assume that they're part of the concept as well.

    Mekkatorque's abilities are less likely, but still possible.



    Yeah, I never said MoP wasn't about Pandaren (and even that is arguable), I said that MoP didn't center on Pandaren.



    No, the Claw Pack is a possible ability within the Tinker class. Simply because I personally would prefer a pure mech concept doesn't mean that the contraption doesn't have a high chance of making it into the actual class. Why? Because it's part of Tinker lore, and Blizzard has used it as a significant marker for the Tinker concept since WC3, and is seen over and over again in Warcraft content.



    They based it on that so much that they wouldn't bring the class into the game until Metamorphosis was decoupled from the Warlock class.



    Why else do you think the Tinker beats out other classes in multiple polls? It's not because people have a "tech hunter" concept in their heads. It's because they see Mekkatorque, Gazlowe, Gallywix, or Blackfuse and want a class that emulates that concept.




    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0

    I definitely wouldn't consider myself a minority.
    Once again, you're deciding on your own device what are appropriate Tinker abilities and what are not. Classic Teriz. A moment ago it was just WC3 and HotS. Now, it is Island Expedition, as well. But, not Mekkatorque, god forbid, the second most renown Tinker. Even though his abilities and the Island Expedition ones are from the same game. The Island Expedition AI, except for Gazlowe, aren't even famous Tinkers. But, for some reason, they come before Mekkatorque. You see how biased you are towards your Tinker concept?

    Listen. BfA, like MoP, started out as a faction war expansion. Later on, it deviated towards a Void theme. Is it more about the latter or the former? I'd say it is more about the former, as that was the thing that got published at Blizzcon, not the Void stuff.

    So, why are you shitting on it with your permanent mech concept? Because with it, it would be rendered, utterly, useless.

    You didn't get my point. The Demon Hunter's Metamorphosis, as a sellng point, didn't factor in the decision to make it temporary or permanent. So, it isn't a factor in the Tinker, as well.

    Why do i think they want a Tinker race? not because of Iron Man, that's for sure. It is because they want a steampunk inventor class, like had been portrayed in Warcraft. The mech is a part it, not its entire purpose.

    No. You're a minority in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm sure both of those individuals were already opposed to the Tinker concept long before I came along. Put that poll back up for 10.0, and you're going to get the same results.
    Never was opposed of it.
    I'm opposed to you seeing only yourself.

  9. #3229
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    Once again, you're deciding on your own device what are appropriate Tinker abilities and what are not. Classic Teriz. A moment ago it was just WC3 and HotS. Now, it is Island Expedition, as well. But, not Mekkatorque, god forbid, the second most renown Tinker. Even though his abilities and the Island Expedition ones are from the same game. The Island Expedition AI, except for Gazlowe, aren't even famous Tinkers. But, for some reason, they come before Mekkatorque. You see how biased you are towards your Tinker concept?
    Because Blizzard seldom takes class abilities from raid bosses. It happens, but not very often. However, Blizzard tends to take abilities from WC3 and HotS, so there's a good chance those abilities would become a Tinker's class abilities. Island Expedition abilities are also interesting because many of them aren't rehashed class abilities and definitely out engineering items, so I'd move them into the high possibility arena as well.

    That brings the total number of potential Tinker abilities (not including Mekkatorque's abilities) to about 20.

    Listen. BfA, like MoP, started out as a faction war expansion. Later on, it deviated towards a Void theme. Is it more about the latter or the former? I'd say it is more about the former, as that was the thing that got published at Blizzcon, not the Void stuff.
    The faction war lasted the entire expansion. You don't remember the final cinematic with the factions coming together to stop Sylvanas? I'm pretty sure that was in 8.3.

    So, why are you shitting on it with your permanent mech concept? Because with it, it would be rendered, utterly, useless.
    Because I like the permanent mech concept more. I think it's far more simple and elegant design wise. I also believe you can add mechanics to the mech form that would make it feel like an actual vehicle that you wouldn't be able to via the Claw Pack.

    You didn't get my point. The Demon Hunter's Metamorphosis, as a sellng point, didn't factor in the decision to make it temporary or permanent. So, it isn't a factor in the Tinker, as well.
    Metamorphosis was always a cool down though, even in WC3 and HotS. The Tinker's mech form is permanent in both WC3 and HotS.

    Why do i think they want a Tinker race? not because of Iron Man, that's for sure. It is because they want a steampunk inventor class, like had been portrayed in Warcraft. The mech is a part it, not its entire purpose.
    You can have a steampunk inventor class that also pilots a mech into battle. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

    No. You're a minority in this thread.
    People believe that, until the polls come out and then they're shocked to see the Tinker dominating. Then we get all sorts of silly conspiracy theories and denialism posts about what's happening instead of simply accepting that a lot of people like the idea of a Goblin/Gnome driven technology class.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-01-21 at 07:02 PM.

  10. #3230
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    People believe that, until the polls come out and then they're shocked to see the Tinker dominating. Then we get all sorts of silly conspiracy theories and denialism posts about what's happening instead of simply accepting that a lot of people like the idea of a Goblin/Gnome driven technology class.

    Poll data here only relates to what the MMO-Champion enthusiast wants. Rarely do these polls exceed 500 people, if even.

    I think this is as bad as someone here saying people have a significant interest in Bards, then they link a poll with a total of ~300 votes and only 53 of those were for Bards. That's a very shallow pool to draw from and rarely do we ever have a poll with enough significant data to draw any meaningful conclusions.

    https://www.strawpoll.me/42279947/r

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ed-next/775610

    I mean just look at this. Could we say there are more Necromancer and Bard interest than Tinkers because of this poll that was linked on the main forums? I don't think this is conclusive at all.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-01-21 at 07:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Well, yes. Our opinions are below the canon lore of the game, because we're not the ones writing the lore.

  11. #3231
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Poll data here only relates to what the MMO-Champion enthusiast wants. Rarely do these polls exceed 500 people, if even.

    I think this is as bad as someone here saying people have a significant interest in Bards, then they link a poll with a total of ~300 votes and only 53 of those were for Bards. That's a very shallow pool to draw from and rarely do we ever have a poll with enough significant data to draw any meaningful conclusions.

    https://www.strawpoll.me/42279947/r

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ed-next/775610

    I mean just look at this. Could we say there are more Necromancer and Bard interest than Tinkers because of this poll that was linked on the main forums? I don't think this is conclusive at all.
    To be fair, the poll I linked to had over 1200 votes.


    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0

    I also think the polls on MMOC are a bit better because it can poll people who are currently not subbed to WoW.

  12. #3232
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because Blizzard seldom takes class abilities from raid bosses. It happens, but not very often. However, Blizzard tends to take abilities from WC3 and HotS, so there's a good chance those abilities would become a Tinker's class abilities. Island Expedition abilities are also interesting because many of them aren't rehashed class abilities and definitely out engineering items, so I'd move them into the high possibility arena as well.

    That brings the total number of potential Tinker abilities (not including Mekkatorque's abilities) to about 20.



    The faction war lasted the entire expansion. You don't remember the final cinematic with the factions coming together to stop Sylvanas? I'm pretty sure that was in 8.3.



    Because I like the permanent mech concept more. I think it's far more simple and elegant design wise. I also believe you can add mechanics to the mech form that would make it feel like an actual vehicle that you wouldn't be able to via the Claw Pack.



    Metamorphosis was always a cool down though, even in WC3 and HotS. The Tinker's mech form is permanent in both WC3 and HotS.



    You can have a steampunk inventor class that also pilots a mech into battle. The two aren't mutually exclusive.



    People believe that, until the polls come out and then they're shocked to see the Tinker dominating. Then we get all sorts of silly conspiracy theories and denialism posts about what's happening instead of simply accepting that a lot of people like the idea of a Goblin/Gnome driven technology class.
    Is that so?:

    Arthas

    Necrotic Plague 50,000 yd range — Infects the target with a deadly plague, causing 50,000 Shadow damage every 5 seconds for 15 seconds. If the target dies while afflicted, or the effect expires after its 15 sec duration, this effect will gain an additional stack and jump to a nearby unit. The 15 sec timer is refreshed after each jump. If this effect is dispelled, it will lose a stack and jump to a nearby unit in a 10 yard distance, if there is no target the plague will be removed completely. Whenever this effect jumps, the Lich King's power will increase. Instant. Disease. 100,000/5 on 25-player.

    Necrotic Plague
    Level 100 death knight talent
    Instant
    A powerful disease that deals (3.52% of attack power) Shadowfrost damage per stack every 2 sec for 30 sec. Each time it deals damage, it gains 1 stack, and infects another nearby enemy within 8 yards if possible.
    Replaces Blood Plague and Frost Fever, and is applied by any ability which applied either. This effect cannot be refreshed; it gains 1 stack instead.

    Frenzy — Increases the caster's attack speed by 50% and the Physical damage it deals by 100% for 10 min. Instant, cast on Heroic when Horrors reach 20% health.

    Unholy Frenzy
    Level 58 Unholy death knight talent
    Passive
    When a Festering Wound bursts, you gain 100% increased attack speed for 2.5 sec.

    Remorseless Winter — Creates a massive winter storm, dealing 7069 to 7931 Frost damage per second to all surrounding enemies within 45 yards. 2.5 sec cast. 9425-10575/sec on 25-player

    Remorseless Winter
    Level 57 Frost death knight ability
    1 Rune
    20 sec cooldown
    Instant
    Drain the warmth of life from all nearby enemies, dealing (280.8% of attack power) Frost damage over 8 sec and reducing their movement speed by 50%.

    Soul Reaper Melee range — Strikes the target for 50% weapon damage and afflicts the target with Soul Reaper. This effect deals 50,000 Shadow damage after 5 sec and increases the caster's haste by 100% for 5 sec. Instant. Used on the tank. 60,000 on 25-player and 10-player heroic, 70,000 on 25-player heroic.

    Soul Reaper
    Level 100 Unholy death knight talent
    Melee range
    1 Rune
    45 sec cooldown
    Instant
    Requires Melee Weapon
    Strike an enemy's soul for (350% of weapon damage) Shadow damage, afflicting them with Soul Reaper for 5 sec.
    Bursting a Festering Wound on an enemy afflicted by Soul Reaper grants 7% Haste for 15 sec, stacking up to 3 times.

    Defile 80 yd range — Defiles the area under a random target. Any enemies got within this area will be dealt shadow damage and cause the area to grow. Lasts 30s. 2 sec cast. Starts at 3000/sec on 10-player, 5000/sec on 25-player. (3 sec cooldown)

    Defile
    Level 100 Unholy death knight talent
    30 yd range
    1 Rune
    30 sec cooldown
    Instant
    Defile the targeted ground, dealing (528% of attack power) Shadow damage to all enemies over 10 sec.
    Every 1 sec, if any enemies are standing in the Defile, it grows in size and increases your Mastery by X, stacking up to 10 times.
    While you remain within your Defile, your Scourge Strike will hit all enemies near the target.
    Replaces [Death and Decay].

    Summon Val'kyr — Summons a Val'kyr Shadowguard. Instant. Attempts to pick up a player and drop them off the edge of Icecrown Citadel. (3 sec cooldown)

    Dark Arbiter
    Level 50 Unholy death knight ability
    30 yd range
    3 min cooldown
    Instant
    Summon a Val'kyr into the area to attack the target for 30 sec.
    The Val'kyr gains 1% increased damage for every 2 Runic Power you spend.
    Replaces [Summon Gargoyle].

    Illidan

    Shear Tank Alert — A deadly attack shears the target, not using active mitigation reduces maximum health by 60% for 7 sec.

    Shear
    Level 10 Vengeance demon hunter ability
    Melee range
    Instant cast
    Requires Melee Weapon
    Shears an enemy for (40.365% of Attack power) Physical damage, and shatters two Lesser Soul Fragments from your target.
    Generates 10 Fury.

    Flame Crash — Deals 1665 to 1935 Fire damage to the target and leaves a blaze upon the ground.

    Flame Crash
    Level 102 Vengeance demon hunter talent
    Passive
    Infernal Strike creates a Sigil of Flame when you land.

    Agonizing Flames — Deals 7200 Fire damage instantly to all enemies within 5 yards of the target and dealing 64800 Fire damage over 1 min.

    Agonizing Flames
    Level 99 Vengeance demon hunter talent
    Passive
    Immolation Aura increases your movement speed by 30%, and deals 20% increased damage.

    And Mekkatorque's are rehashed class abilities? You just apply whatever you want to Blizzard's future actions.

    Need i remind you that JI Firepaw, Aysa Cloudsinger, Taran Zhu and Lorewalker Cho were present in Siege of Orgrimmar and many of the encounters are Pandaria based like, The Fallen Protectors, Immerseus, Norushen, Vault of Y'shaarj, Artifact Storage, The Manegerie, Chamber of the Paragons and Garrosh's Sha.

    No, it's not. It would look like players are in a constant mount all the time. The Claw Pack doesn't need to feel like an actual vehicle. That's the whole point. Like you can't use Siege Vehicles all the time in game. It doesn't look right for a player to be in a mech-type of a siege vehicle, all the time.

    You talked about it being a selling point. If it was the case for the Demon Hunter, as well, it would have been permanent.
    I don't know, visually, about the HotS version. What i do know is that the bonuses do not last, permanently.

    I didn't say the two contradict each other. I said that your constant mech is derived from Iron Man. And that is not what players are looking for in a Tinker. They want to be able to play it, outside of a mech, as well - like a steampunk would (and like you can in WC3 and HotS).

    A lot of people like the idea of a Tinker. I like the idea of a Tinker. I don't like you imposing your ideas on the rest of us and on the rest of the playerbase.

    And i can, already, guess that these polls are influenced by your multiple accounts voting for the Tinker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    To be fair, the poll I linked to had over 1200 votes.


    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0

    I also think the polls on MMOC are a bit better because it can poll people who are currently not subbed to WoW.
    On the contrary. They are less reliable because you can get your grandma to vote on them.
    Last edited by Unbelievable; 2021-01-21 at 09:37 PM.

  13. #3233
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    To be fair, the poll I linked to had over 1200 votes.
    I don't see that changing anything considering we're still polling enthusiasts within this forum.

    It's known that this place is generally an echochamber of sorts. I don't think this community is very indicative of what actually appeals to the wider community we have; what we have is a collective of opinions on what people happen to like or dislike at any given moment.

    And even to further the argument in any class-based polls, consider that the more people we have voting for any given class might not even agree with other people's ideas on what the class would actually be. Say we had Monk on the list, I'd love to have a Monk class in the game but I definitely do not like the WoW Monk as it currently stands. There's some major issues with the class fantasy that I don't like about it whereas I'd definitely play a Monk class if styled around the Diablo 3 Monk. Something was definitely lost in translation here, both in the gameplay and the overall aesthetic.

    When anyone talks about a Bard class, what exactly are we talking about here? Same with a Tinker. There's been half a dozen different Tinker concepts in this thread alone.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-01-21 at 09:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Well, yes. Our opinions are below the canon lore of the game, because we're not the ones writing the lore.

  14. #3234
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I don't see that changing anything considering we're still polling enthusiasts within this forum.
    So who exactly should we be polling then? Where should we be polling these people?

    It's known that this place is generally an echochamber of sorts. I don't think this community is very indicative of what actually appeals to the wider community we have; what we have is a collective of opinions on what people happen to like or dislike at any given moment.
    It's less of an echo chamber than the official forums, since anyone could walk in here and vote. Again, is there a better place we should go to poll people?

    Frankly, it sounds like you're making a bunch of excuses here.

  15. #3235
    I really wish a mod would close this thread already. It's literally just 162 pages of Teriz ranting about hit version of Tinker and insulting anyone that doesn't agree.

  16. #3236
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    Is that so?:
    Yes that's so. Out of 20 abilities Death Knights got about 3-4 abilities from the Lich King over the course of several expansions. Death Knights got more abilities than that from WC3 in WotLK.

    And Unholy Frenzy came from WC3.

    And Mekkatorque's are rehashed class abilities? You just apply whatever you want to Blizzard's future actions.
    I didn't say that.

    Need i remind you that JI Firepaw, Aysa Cloudsinger, Taran Zhu and Lorewalker Cho were present in Siege of Orgrimmar and many of the encounters are Pandaria based like, The Fallen Protectors, Immerseus, Norushen, Vault of Y'shaarj, Artifact Storage, The Manegerie, Chamber of the Paragons and Garrosh's Sha.
    Whoop dee doo. Like I said, they were our allies and they were present, but MoP was hardly centered on them.

    No, it's not. It would look like players are in a constant mount all the time. The Claw Pack doesn't need to feel like an actual vehicle. That's the whole point. Like you can't use Siege Vehicles all the time in game. It doesn't look right for a player to be in a mech-type of a siege vehicle, all the time.
    It wouldn't operate like a siege vehicle, it would operate like a Druid form. In other words, you would hit summon mech and you would hop in the mech and your mech abilities would be available. However it wouldn't be like vehicle controls, it would just be typical class controls. The thing is that they could have various mechanics to make the form feel like a vehicle.

    You talked about it being a selling point. If it was the case for the Demon Hunter, as well, it would have been permanent.
    I don't know, visually, about the HotS version. What i do know is that the bonuses do not last, permanently.
    Metamorphosis was a selling point for a Demon Hunter whether it was permanent or not. The point is that in nearly all of its iterations Metamorphosis was a temporary state, so obviously the class ability would also be temporary. The Tinker's mech state in all of its iterations have been permanent.

    I didn't say the two contradict each other. I said that your constant mech is derived from Iron Man. And that is not what players are looking for in a Tinker. They want to be able to play it, outside of a mech, as well - like a steampunk would (and like you can in WC3 and HotS).
    Actually no, the constant mech is derived from Robo Goblin in WC3. Look it up.

    And i can, already, guess that these polls are influenced by your multiple accounts voting for the Tinker.


    On the contrary. They are less reliable because you can get your grandma to vote on them.
    And there's that denialism I was talking about.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I really wish a mod would close this thread already. It's literally just 162 pages of Teriz ranting about hit version of Tinker and insulting anyone that doesn't agree.
    I'm simply responding to people who are quoting my posts. People are free to bring up other classes in this topic if they wish.

  17. #3237
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    But we have the translated abilities in WoW already, so why are we looking at items that don't share the name, function, or purpose of the actual Tinker/Achemist abilities from WC3 and HotS that are currently in WoW?
    They serve the same overall function and purpose of the WC3 units' abilities. And why are we looking at those engineering abilities? Because, unlike the abilities you mentioned, they're available to players, right now.

    Also if Blizzard's goal was to translate the Tinker and Alchemist into the professions, why leave out their abilities and not translate those abilities into items?
    But they did. Bombs are bombs. Rockets are rockets. You can upgrade your gear with engineering, which is a skill of the WC3 tinker unit. You can transmute elements into other elements, which is a skill of the WC3 alchemist. Engineering also has a device that, when used, deploys walking bombs that slowly approach their target an explode, just like the WC3 unit.

    I'm sure both of those individuals were already opposed to the Tinker concept long before I came along.
    Between your word and their word, I'm more inclined to believe them than believe you, considering how much you showed to be dishonest with lies and misrepresentations spanning all those years.

    Put that poll back up for 10.0, and you're going to get the same results.
    Be my guest and do it. I don't care.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Poll data here only relates to what the MMO-Champion enthusiast wants. Rarely do these polls exceed 500 people, if even.

    I think this is as bad as someone here saying people have a significant interest in Bards, then they link a poll with a total of ~300 votes and only 53 of those were for Bards. That's a very shallow pool to draw from and rarely do we ever have a poll with enough significant data to draw any meaningful conclusions.

    https://www.strawpoll.me/42279947/r

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ed-next/775610

    I mean just look at this. Could we say there are more Necromancer and Bard interest than Tinkers because of this poll that was linked on the main forums? I don't think this is conclusive at all.
    The OP has pointed out that the strawpoll, for some reason, reset back to zero at some point:

    "Looks like the poll was reset? It’s borked, in any case. C’est la vie."
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  18. #3238
    Mail user tank and dps speccs like dark ranger line sylvans and her abilities

  19. #3239
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes that's so. Out of 20 abilities Death Knights got about 3-4 abilities from the Lich King over the course of several expansions. Death Knights got more abilities than that from WC3 in WotLK.

    And Unholy Frenzy came from WC3.



    I didn't say that.



    Whoop dee doo. Like I said, they were our allies and they were present, but MoP was hardly centered on them.



    It wouldn't operate like a siege vehicle, it would operate like a Druid form. In other words, you would hit summon mech and you would hop in the mech and your mech abilities would be available. However it wouldn't be like vehicle controls, it would just be typical class controls. The thing is that they could have various mechanics to make the form feel like a vehicle.



    Metamorphosis was a selling point for a Demon Hunter whether it was permanent or not. The point is that in nearly all of its iterations Metamorphosis was a temporary state, so obviously the class ability would also be temporary. The Tinker's mech state in all of its iterations have been permanent.



    Actually no, the constant mech is derived from Robo Goblin in WC3. Look it up.



    And there's that denialism I was talking about.....

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm simply responding to people who are quoting my posts. People are free to bring up other classes in this topic if they wish.
    People have tried and you inevitably brought it back to Tinker.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildpantz View Post
    Mail user tank and dps speccs like dark ranger line sylvans and her abilities
    Sylvanas is the only character in WoW with her abilities because she is a banshee inhabiting her old body.

  20. #3240
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    They serve the same overall function and purpose of the WC3 units' abilities.
    False. Under no circumstance does items serve the same overall function and purpose as class abilities.

    And why are we looking at those engineering abilities? Because, unlike the abilities you mentioned, they're available to players, right now.
    Because the class isn’t playable yet.


    But they did. Bombs are bombs. Rockets are rockets.
    So does that mean that arrows are arrows? Does that mean we get to stop talking about the Dark Ranger class?

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