1. #3241
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    People have tried and you inevitably brought it back to Tinker.
    Again, I’m just responding to people quoting me. They’re the ones asking about the Tinker, I’m merely answering their questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If you were actually listening, you'd understand that I'm saying Poll data is meaningless overall.
    So companies who use polling data (like Blizzard) are wasting their time and money?

  2. #3242
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    That's called being a "Master Manipulator".

    Now that people are, actually, discussing the Tinker concept, and he doesn't need to convince them anymore, using the claw pack argument, he's unloading his true intentions - diverting people into a constant mech Tinker idea.



    As i said above - "Master Manipulator".

    We might have not seen eye to eye in regards to Dark Ranger, Priestess of the Moon, Sea Witch, Shadow Hunter, Blademaster and Warden but, at least, i have been consistent.



    How convenient that it is a typo on my part but, not on yours.

    Once again, showing that they're inconsistent with their visual representation of abilities.

    Oh, so now Island Expeditions are canon Tinker abilities? Yet, Mekkatorque isn't? how convenient. Do these dozens of abilities have World Enlarger, Discombobulation and Spark bot?

    The main point of a Blademaster is being a Samurai. An affliction Warlock's necromantic themes can accomplish the Death Knight fantasy, if you rely on Death Coil as a representative.

    Selling points are the main themes of the expansion. Do you think allied races had nothing to do with the faction war? does Torghast has nothing to do with the Death theme of Shadowlands? Do Demon Hunters have nothing to do with the demonic theme of Legion? You are delusional if you think MoP isn't about Pandaren. Yes, the story diverged into Garrosh but, the Pandaren are the central part.

    So, the claw pack is, merely, a visual identification? Then, why argue about the differences of a Hunter/Engineer explosives to those of a Tinker using a claw pack, like you have been doing for the past 100 pages?

    The main selling point of a Demon Hunter is the Metamorphosis. It's the cool factor. They don't base it on that.

    Oh, so now you speak on behalf of the playerbase? Because the "playerbase"'s desires align, suspiciously, with yours.
    I'll tell you what it is. It's your egocentrism talking on behalf of the "playerbase".



    You got that right

    The only problem is that he's a loud minority. and loud minorities, often, silence the normative majority, using manipulation and demagogy.

    Someone have got to keep him and his bullshit in check. Otherwise, people who read this thread would think the Tinker is the only prime candidate out there, and no other classes are.
    here is the problem though

    hes one guy

    if everyone ignores him then we dont get 160 pages of tinker talk
    however if ppl decide to pointlessly argue with him then all anyone sees is a trashfire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Next person to say "tinker" is a dirty mouth breather and should go and apologize a tree for the oxygen they have wasted thus far.
    New class ideas that dont revolve around tech, sylvanas or necromancy since those ships have sailed a away in legion, bfa or SL
    im holding out for a draconic magic empowered class

    "draconic magic is simply magic"

    aspects empowering mortals is a fun concept

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post



    People believe that, until the polls come out and then they're shocked to see the Tinker dominating. Then we get all sorts of silly conspiracy theories and denialism posts about what's happening instead of simply accepting that a lot of people like the idea of a Goblin/Gnome driven technology class.
    nobody is talking about polls ya dingus

    its in this thread

  3. #3243
    Guys, drop the Tinker talk please. Teriz is incapable of listening to anyone's point unless it supports his narrative. Just ignore him and lets talk about something else.

  4. #3244
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, I’m just responding to people quoting me. They’re the ones asking about the Tinker, I’m merely answering their questions.

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    So companies who use polling data (like Blizzard) are wasting their time and money?
    oh bull crap

    people talk about other classes and you go "no no that cant happen it doesnt make sense it doesnt fit blah blah HERES TINKER!!!"

    because god forbid the devs skip a WC3 hero and add something new into the game

    dark ranger?? nope cant just talk about that concept gotta say "no tinker is more likely dark ranger will never happen"
    necro??? same thing
    dargonsworn?? well thats unique because if it doesnt fit your idea of being an actual dragon then it wont happen

    over 100 pages discussing tinkers and the multitude of reasons they can and cant happen and the only thing that stays consistent is that i hope the class either never exists or launches just to kill this cancer of a conversation

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Guys, drop the Tinker talk please. Teriz is incapable of listening to anyone's point unless it supports his narrative. Just ignore him and lets talk about something else.
    we try but people act like they must keep him in check i guess...."you dont kick the retarded cousin you just let him keep playing tag even though he just runs around hitting people"
    -clara the guild 2012

  5. #3245
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So companies who use polling data (like Blizzard) are wasting their time and money?
    If they are polling on forums like this with niche questions? Yes.

    Why would mmo-champion forums polls be meaningful in any way?

    I mean considering how prevalent these New Class threads have been over the past 10 years here. Would it make sense for Blizzard to not add a new class this expansion if 'No new class!' options are always lowest picked in polls?

    They don't use any of this data to move forward with their design plans. They take the information in but they don't have to act on any of it; thus we don't have a Tinker class despite everyone having expected one in the post-BFA expansion.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-01-21 at 11:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  6. #3246
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Guys, drop the Tinker talk please. Teriz is incapable of listening to anyone's point unless it supports his narrative. Just ignore him and lets talk about something else.
    Yep, feel free to talk about other class concepts. I’ll happily stay out of it. However, if you attack the Tinker concept, I will respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If they are polling on forums like this with niche questions? Yes.

    Why would mmo-champion forums polls be meaningful in any way?

    I mean considering how prevalent these New Class threads have been over the past 10 years here. Would it make sense for Blizzard to not add a new class this expansion if 'No new class!' options are always lowest picked in polls?

    They don't use any of this data to move forward with their design plans. They take the information in but they don't have to act on any of it; thus we don't have a Tinker class despite everyone having expected one in the post-BFA expansion.
    So is polling data in general useless, or just polling data here on MMOC because you want to be argumentative and move goal posts?

  7. #3247
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So is polling data in general useless, or just polling data here on MMOC because you want to be argumentative and move goal posts?
    How have I moved goalposts? Check back every post I've said about polls. I've always been specific about Poll data here in the forums. In any niche community or forum.

    There's never a wide enough spread for the data to make sense, the way census stats for WoW realms show a grander picture of what's actually happening in the game despite particular opinions for-or-against a certain argument.

    Poll data regarding enthusiasts will be highly skewed, no matter how you look at it. The majority of WoW players never even go to forums.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-01-21 at 11:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  8. #3248
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yep, feel free to talk about other class concepts. I’ll happily stay out of it. However, if you attack the Tinker concept, I will respond.

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    So is polling data in general useless, or just polling data here on MMOC because you want to be argumentative and move goal posts?
    Nobody has attacked the tinker concept. they have only attacked you're incredibly stupid and restrictive version of Tinker. You have never once given a legitimate point for restricting Tinker to goblin and gnomes. Literally not a single point. So you constantly move goalposts and talk in irrational circles instead of admitting you're wrong for once. As a result, we are 163 pages in because you refuse to admit you're wrong and phrase things in a way you know will spark arguments.

  9. #3249
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Nobody has attacked the tinker concept. they have only attacked you're incredibly stupid and restrictive version of Tinker. You have never once given a legitimate point for restricting Tinker to goblin and gnomes. Literally not a single point. So you constantly move goalposts and talk in irrational circles instead of admitting you're wrong for once. As a result, we are 163 pages in because you refuse to admit you're wrong and phrase things in a way you know will spark arguments.
    How is a Tinker concept that follows the WC3 and HotS Tinker just like the previous three expansion classes have followed their WC3/HotS concepts incredibly restrictive and stupid? I’m just following the precedent set by Blizzard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    How have I moved goalposts? Check back every post I've said about polls. I've always been specific about Poll data here in the forums. In any niche community or forum.

    There's never a wide enough spread for the data to make sense, the way census stats for WoW realms show a grander picture of what's actually happening in the game despite particular opinions for-or-against a certain argument.

    Poll data regarding enthusiasts will be highly skewed, no matter how you look at it. The majority of WoW players never even go to forums.
    So again, who and where should we be polling instead to get more accurate data?

  10. #3250
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So again, who and where should we be polling instead to get more accurate data?
    There is none, which is why it shouldn't ever be used or mentioned as supporting evidence for or against any given argument.

    It'd be no different than citing a WoW Streamer's opinion as if it is worth anything important.

    Fan concepts for new races only exists in the realm of subjectivity and opinion. There is no evidence of anything being more or less popular than what people want to make of it. Case in point - what Covenant is most popular right now if we poll here? Chances are the results would skew much differently from any tangible census statistics. A poll here could vary differently than a poll on Reddit or a poll on the main forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  11. #3251
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    How is a Tinker concept that follows the WC3 and HotS Tinker just like the previous three expansion classes have followed their WC3/HotS concepts incredibly restrictive and stupid? I’m just following the precedent set by Blizzard.

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    So again, who and where should we be polling instead to get more accurate data?
    I'm going to continue to disregard anything you mention about HotS because it's not a Warcraft game. This is the last time I will ever acknowledge you even mentioned it. As far as WC3, if they were going to base it on the tinker in that game then why did the claw pack utterly vanish? Why don't the tinkers in the lore have ANY of the abilities they did in WC3? I'll answer for you. Because for the most part, tinkers in WC3 became engineers and clawpacks aren't canon anymore.

  12. #3252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    There is none, which is why it shouldn't ever be used or mentioned as supporting evidence for or against any given argument.

    It'd be no different than citing a WoW Streamer's opinion as if it is worth anything important.

    Fan concepts for new races only exists in the realm of subjectivity and opinion. There is no evidence of anything being more or less popular than what people want to make of it. Case in point - what Covenant is most popular right now if we poll here? Chances are the results would skew much differently from any tangible census statistics. A poll here could vary differently than a poll on Reddit or a poll on the main forums.
    So once again, polling data is useless, unless multi-billion dollar companies like Activision-Blizzard use them to determine future ideas. Got it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I'm going to continue to disregard anything you mention about HotS because it's not a Warcraft game. This is the last time I will ever acknowledge you even mentioned it. As far as WC3, if they were going to base it on the tinker in that game then why did the claw pack utterly vanish? Why don't the tinkers in the lore have ANY of the abilities they did in WC3? I'll answer for you. Because for the most part, tinkers in WC3 became engineers and clawpacks aren't canon anymore.
    Isn’t that exactly what happened to the Pandaren Brewmaster until MoP? It didn’t exist in WoW at all, yet existed in multiple Warcraft related media for years until MoP’s release in 2012.

    Why would the Tinker be any different?

  13. #3253
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So once again, polling data is useless, unless multi-billion dollar companies like Activision-Blizzard use them to determine future ideas. Got it.

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    Isn’t that exactly what happened to the Pandaren Brewmaster until MoP? It didn’t exist in WoW at all, yet existed in multiple Warcraft related media for years until MoP’s release in 2012.

    Why would the Tinker be any different?
    No it didn't. Unlike the pandaren brewmaster, Gazlowe and other tinkers have actually been in the game this entire time. Yet NONE of them have any of the abilities that the Tinkers in WC3 had. So that literally 100% discredits using WC3 as an explanation for how Tinker will work.

  14. #3254
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So once again, polling data is useless, unless multi-billion dollar companies like Activision-Blizzard use them to determine future ideas. Got it.
    Yes, when it comes to asking themselves what the next class should be, multi-billion dollar companies like Blizzard aren't looking to poll on MMO-C for that data.

    They just as easily move on to Shadowlands without any consideration on a new class at all because it doesn't happen to jump out at the story they're deciding to tell at the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  15. #3255
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No it didn't. Unlike the pandaren brewmaster, Gazlowe and other tinkers have actually been in the game this entire time. Yet NONE of them have any of the abilities that the Tinkers in WC3 had. So that literally 100% discredits using WC3 as an explanation for how Tinker will work.
    Just like the Brewmaster vendors had none of the abilities that Brewmasters had in WC3. Just because they share the name doesn't mean they're the same thing.

    Anyways, go ahead and have your conversations about other classes. Don't let me hold you back.

    To anyone else in the thread, I won't respond to any more posts. I want you guys to have a fruitful class discussion.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-01-21 at 11:47 PM.

  16. #3256
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Just like the Brewmaster vendors had none of the abilities that Brewmasters had in WC3. Just because they share the name doesn't mean they're the same thing.

    Anyways, go ahead and have your conversations about other classes. Don't let me hold you back.
    Thank you for finally confirming that tinkers in WC3 are just engineers in WoW

  17. #3257
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Thank you for finally confirming that tinkers in WC3 are just engineers in WoW
    They pretty much are.

    Blizzard has been fairly consistent of their portrayal of Engineering in WoW and in their previous games, and there are definitely direct ties to it being a profession and Engineers having been vendors in the RTS games.

    The only real shame is how professions overall have been held back from having a more significant role in the game. Engineering is a shadow of what it was back in Classic -> Wrath.

    Saronite bombs were just too exploitable as DPS boosts, but it showed the potential of what profession items can amount to if used correctly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  18. #3258
    Tinkers have great potential and are pretty unique so I'd take that.

    Sure engineering is a thing, but tbh a profession that gives you a bit of utility such as gliders, mailbox etc doesn't stop tinkers from becoming a class.

    Other ideas such as necromancers are intersting too, but they are imo too similar to already existing classes.
    Warlocks lost quite a bit of their identity and spells when they first added DK's and then DH's
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2021-01-22 at 12:47 AM.

  19. #3259
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    False. Under no circumstance does items serve the same overall function and purpose as class abilities.
    Of course they can. An engineering rocket can do damage so can a goblins rocket Barrage. An engineers slowfall serves the same purpose of a priests slowfall. Wormhole generators serve the same purpose as a mages teleport etc....

  20. #3260
    Pit Lord Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Guys, drop the Tinker talk please. Teriz is incapable of listening to anyone's point unless it supports his narrative. Just ignore him and lets talk about something else.
    How about we talk about a Witch Doctor/Shadow Hunter class?

    Another day, another Deal....

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