If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Unbelievable]

It's a possibility, since those abilities don't exist in the present class line up. I could imagine some of those abilities like Cutting Beam and Stun baton being a Tinker's abilities out of their mech (pilot abilities).





Looks good to me.



You would need to be in a mech in order to utilize heavy weaponry. It would be rather hard carrying around an arsenal of missiles and bombs in your knapsack.



Yeah, that's a cooldown to boost the already existing mech form. The actual mech form (which just consists of the clawback getting more armor and buzz saws for arms) is permanent.



Nah, that aspect would be altered to make it more balanced for WoW's class structure. They'd probably just make up some BS passive like "Mana Drive" that converts healing spells into energy that repairs the mech or some such silliness.



I have no idea why you think a Tinker inside a mech would be some invincible creature. You can still be defeated while piloting the mech. Look at Mekkatorque, Blackfuse and Thermaplugg.



Moonkin also gets a damage reduction buff. However that said, yeah it's a permanent form, and they even get Incarnation on top of it.



When its health reaches zero. And no, not 2 health bars. You can make it like Shaman Reincarnation ability, where they die and they can instantly rez themselves at 20% health. Do the same thing for the Tinker. Give the Tinker the option to eject from their mech before it explodes, and if they take it, they're at reduced health and can't eject again for 30 minutes.

Simple.



Maybe people didn't like your class concepts?

It's a possibility because you prefer her abilities over those of Mekkatorque's? Because there's no reason to consider her abilities official.

That's a Pandaren Death Knight *facepalm*
Wrong expansion -_-

You wouldn't need shit to utilize nothing. In both WC3 and HotS the Tinker can use his abilities outside of mech form.

That's just cosmetic. If the bonuses are on cooldown, it isn't permanent.

Oh, so the downside isn't viable but, the constant mech is? how convenient...

Not invincible but, if you only have advantages without disadvantages, you would be OP. Even Druid forms have a downside - the inability to cast certain spells while inside them. It's like wanting a permanent Metamorphosis. Both were considered powerful forms in WC3.

You want to tell me a permanent mech form will be about as powerful as a Moonkin form? I highly doubt that...

Ok. that's a solid explanation. Yet, it isn't bound to WC3 or HotS which you, exclusively, regard as the prime schematic for Tinker gameplay.

3 people said they want a Shadow Hunter last pages.

Haha, actually those are the things I didn't like about the D3 Monk.

What I like about the D3 Monk are its fantasy-based attacks, some loosely based on Kung Fu movie tropes. Him going into a meditative trance while spiritual after-images attack the enemies with Seven Sided Strike, dropping a giant Bell and smashing pillars with Wave of Light, zipping around and dodging while engaging the enemy with Epiphany... these are what make the Monk special.

The Warcraft 3 Monk lacks a lot of this potential in many ways. The combo system and the regular attacks lack the hard-hitting Burst damage feel that makes those punches and kicks feel strong. The cyclone kick is just treated as an AoE ability, and it's pretty weak compared to say a simple Flying Roundhouse Kick that does big damage in a sweeping arc instead, like the D3 Monk's Lashing Tail kick. I'm not entirely sure if it's the translation of these mechanics into a slower-paced MMORPG that is the issue here or what, but it just doesn't meet my expectations for what a Monk class could actually be. The only memorable ability for me is the gimmicky Touch of Death, which I used mostly as a Mistweaver just to speed up trash kills in dungeons.

Another thematic thing that was a miss for me was when they introduced the Stagger mechanic for tanking. It's a great mechanic, don't get me wrong, but I always felt like Brewmaster should be a pure Dodge and Parry tank that heavily focuses on avoiding damage. If anything, the Stagger mechanic should have been given to Guardian Druids, since the big ol' bear is designed to be a damage sponge, not an agile fighter capable of avoiding blows. The fantasy is important and I think the Monk is lacking in that department. You can see it in the cinematic, and Chen isn't taking any of the hits and staggering the damage over time, he's actively avoiding every blow. That's how the Monk should be.

I think Blizzard planned this kind of Monk to be the Discipline Priest. It used to have melee based talents.

But, i totally agree about the fantasy. A Monk should dodge and parry, not absorb damage. Blizzard homogenizing tanks to all be stamina, damage-absorption machines kinda ruins it.

I don't personally care about Tinkerer, I think it's goofy and I don't like gnomes, but to each their own. Personally I'd rather see an Alchemist class. something that is a mix of ranged with melee. Toss potions for buffs or damage, mix in some dagger combat. add some buffs for support in the form of splash potions.

I've made an Alchemist concept containing a Goblin Alchemist spec, an Apothecary spec and, maybe, a Witch Doctor spec.

One would be based on the Goblin Alchemist hero unit of Warcraft 3. The other on the undead Apothecaries and their plagues and blight. The third would mix chemistry with mysticism.

The concept is neat since it borrows heavily from the D3 Witch Doctor, which is aces in my book.

Though I must apologize that I can't find your method to avoid "stepping on toes" that you mention on page 111. The quotes on your rather long posts makes the page super hard for me to read through. That being said, I don't think it would be an insurmountable problem. Just one to be considered since the theme is wrapped into the Shaman class, albeit very, very lightly. The class really shifted away from it over the years.

There you go:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e/page111#2202

While Elemental would be based around a 'Volcano' concept, utilizing Lava, lightning and earth, the Enhancement Shaman would be based around the Shaman and Far Seer units of Warcraft III (Rehgar and Thrall in HotS) and Restoration would be based around water and ancestral spirits. Nothing that steps on the toes of a Voodoo-master class.

I'd love to see a class that lets you play the fantasy of a member of the Royal Apothecary Society. A master of potions, a baron of plagues, a lord of transmutations. Let us spray plague on our enemies, turn them into golden statues, toss explosive elixirs. Coat the ground with toxic sludge. Create alchemical nightmares to harras our foes.

You know, the nastier side of science.

I, also, did an Alchemist concept:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e/page112#2221

It combines the Warcraft 3 Goblin Alchemist hero, the Forsaken Apothecary and, maybe, even the Witch Doctor.

There's literally no class built on Bwonsamdi, so I think it looks really good!

And it's not just Bwonsamdi. It encompasses other Loas, like Gonk, Hir'eek, Shango and G'huun. But, that is because i was restricted to Diablo 3 Witch Doctor abilities. There would, of course, be other Loa-related abilities.

Times change.

Night Elf society was incredibly rigid and they wouldn't have been open to teaching others their Druidic abilities, but that's all changed now to incorporate many different races. Voodoo is honestly no different, and no matter how stringent the lore may seem it can be opened up at any given time, any given reason.

Bwonsamedi and the Loas are open to giving their blessing to normal champions in the latest lore, so honestly there's no reason why Shadow Hunters would continue to be so conservative if their own demi-gods have relaxed their positions. Hell, the Trolls themselves have done more damage to the Loa than any of the other races.

Cultures can be explored by opening up as a class. Monks explore Pandaren culture, Druids explore Night Elf culture, and so can Shadow Hunters/Witchdoctors allow us to explore more Troll culture through any number of different races. All we need are some outstanding NPCs to show us the way; much like how Dezco ingrains the idea that even Tauren can be Paladins.

For example, Witch Doctors can, already, be orcs, ogres, vrykul, gorloc, saberon, pygmy and Lost Ones. We know Tortollan worship Torga and Sethrak worship Sethraliss.

The practice of voodoo isn't the same as the loa giving their blessings. Hell, voodoo isn't even taught to all TROLLS in lore. As a result, practically nobody knows how it works. They'd have to do some REALLY egregious retcons to make it possible for other races to be shadow hunters and I'd rather shadow hunter never be playable as a result.

Are you serious? Just because you can't see another race being a Shadow Hunter you prefer it not to be playable? You're just as fanatic as Teriz is.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Voodoo

It's specifically called the "ancient power of the trolls" in lore.

Saurok and Harpy are listed as Hexxers.
Not to mention that Witch Doctors are, also, orcs, ogres, vrykul, gorloc, saberon, pygmy and Lost Ones. We know Tortollan worship Torga and Sethrak worship Sethraliss.

Or it could wind up being pretty much a 1:1 translation of the WC3 ability.

Which frankly is the more likely outcome.

Summoning an actual factory would be too big.

[jellmoo]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Voodoo

It's specifically called the "ancient power of the trolls" in lore.

I mean, if we look at what it says:

"It is practiced primarily by troll shadow hunters, hexxers, and witch doctors as well as others. While not practiced by all trolls, voodoo is certainly at least as widespread as cannibalism. Little is known about its emergence among the trolls, since most tribes that possess such knowledge are unwilling to share it with outsiders. However, following the advent of Zandalari trolls to Yojamba Isle, several notable researchers have come to speculate that voodoo may have originated with the Zandalari."

I think there's at least enough wiggle room to see how the practice could be spread out. Certainly not terribly different than Druids, Paladins or Monks. The events of Shadowlands could lead to Bwonsamdi to want to spread his influence outward to more than just Trolls.

Again, I don't think this is terribly likely, I just don't see lore as being a big limitation here.

[Teriz]

No you said they didn't serve the same purpose not that they could completely replace an skill. And I explained to you how they are balanced differently because anyone can use em but that they serve the same purpose of doing damage and how people don't just have one damage or heal skill they are balanced around the set of em. Which engineering and racial skills are as well.

This is what I said (again);

Under no circumstance does items serve the same overall function and purpose as class abilities.

Which you responded "Of course they can".

Which means that you should have no problem replacing your action bar with engineering items.

Lets not forget that skills are buffed and nerfed all the time. If Blizzard wanted an engineering item to replace a skill they would buff it. But no skill in the game replaces another except for talent tree skills. Also how do you know X item would be used to replace y skill? You continually demand shit and act like a child when you have literally no proof what so ever for your delusional ramblings.

Uh, the point is that Blizzard would never use an item to replace a class ability. The only thing I'm demanding is for you to admit that your wrong. However, I guess I'm asking for too much.

"essentially the same" isn't the same as being completely identical which is what you wanted. And how much a skill heals most certainly doesn't make them interchangeable. Blizzard balances them around the rest of the skills that class uses. You swap healing wave and holy light and paladins are going to be doing much more healing while shamans would have healed less with the skill.

If you want me to say they're the same, fine they're the same. Once again you could completely swap Healing Surge and Flash of Light and there would be no noticeable difference. If only we could say the same for items and class abilities.

A slow fall is a slow fall. It does the job of making you fall slower. Just because one has a charge and the other does not doesn't mean that they don't serve the same function.

Yes, and there's a toy that slows your fall as well. I suppose you think a Mage would be willing to trade their ability for one of those cumbersome items.

I have never backtracked this entire debate but the person I responded to has numerous times. Hell they used to say tinkers needed to invent shit on the spot and not use schematics like engineers need to and then tried to use Gallywix and his mech as an ideal tinker when the motherfucker don't know shit about tech lol. It's actually extremely sad and creepy.

Your major mistake here is believing that your class character can be an engineer. A Warrior dabbling in the engineering profession is exactly that, a Warrior with a hobby.

I would also love for you to show the quote where I said Gallywix was an ideal Tinker. I'm sure you misread that like you've misread multiple times in this exchange.

[Triceron]

You do know that Clockwerk Goblins and Clockwork Gnomes aren't the same thing right?

Of course not. But you can consider it a translation of the Pocket Factory into WoW.

Animate Dead and Army of the Dead aren't the same thing either, but one is a translation of the ability into WoW.

[Unbelievable]

I mean, if we look at what it says:

"It is practiced primarily by troll shadow hunters, hexxers, and witch doctors as well as others. While not practiced by all trolls, voodoo is certainly at least as widespread as cannibalism. Little is known about its emergence among the trolls, since most tribes that possess such knowledge are unwilling to share it with outsiders. However, following the advent of Zandalari trolls to Yojamba Isle, several notable researchers have come to speculate that voodoo may have originated with the Zandalari."

I think there's at least enough wiggle room to see how the practice could be spread out. Certainly not terribly different than Druids, Paladins or Monks. The events of Shadowlands could lead to Bwonsamdi to want to spread his influence outward to more than just Trolls.

Again, I don't think this is terribly likely, I just don't see lore as being a big limitation here.

Not to mention that now, with the Shadowlands being universal, that Loas are worshipped by other races from other planets.

Like how Elune is worshipped by creatures from planet Fyzandi and Goldrinn making contact with the Orcs on Draenor.

[Teriz]

It's a possibility because you prefer her abilities over those of Mekkatorque's? Because there's no reason to consider her abilities official.

It's a possibility because she's on a team with characters using Tinker abilities.

That's a Pandaren Death Knight *facepalm*
Wrong expansion -_-

Which is irrelevant to the point that we could have evil Pandaren.

You wouldn't need shit to utilize nothing. In both WC3 and HotS the Tinker can use his abilities outside of mech form.

Yeah, instead of being inside the mech, they carry a mech on their back. Their abilities are still coming from a mech.

That's just cosmetic. If the bonuses are on cooldown, it isn't permanent.

It's not cosmetic. Robo Goblin is a passive, permanent form that increases armor and attack power. The CD you listed only boosts that.

Not invincible but, if you only have advantages without disadvantages, you would be OP. Even Druid forms have a downside - the inability to cast certain spells while inside them. It's like wanting a permanent Metamorphosis. Both were considered powerful forms in WC3.

And you won't be able to use pilot abilities while inside the mech either.

You want to tell me a permanent mech form will be about as powerful as a Moonkin form? I highly doubt that...

Uh why wouldn't it be? The tank-based spec would probably be about as strong as bear form as well.

Ok. that's a solid explanation. Yet, it isn't bound to WC3 or HotS which you, exclusively, take inspiration from.

Like all WC3 concepts, the Tinker concept would be expanded upon when translated into WoW.

3 people said they want a Shadow Hunter last page.

Cool. Feel free to continue that conversation.

Summoning an actual factory would be too big.

They call it "pocket factory" for a reason.

[Nightmare Queen]

I mean, if we look at what it says:

"It is practiced primarily by troll shadow hunters, hexxers, and witch doctors as well as others. While not practiced by all trolls, voodoo is certainly at least as widespread as cannibalism. Little is known about its emergence among the trolls, since most tribes that possess such knowledge are unwilling to share it with outsiders. However, following the advent of Zandalari trolls to Yojamba Isle, several notable researchers have come to speculate that voodoo may have originated with the Zandalari."

I think there's at least enough wiggle room to see how the practice could be spread out. Certainly not terribly different than Druids, Paladins or Monks. The events of Shadowlands could lead to Bwonsamdi to want to spread his influence outward to more than just Trolls.

Again, I don't think this is terribly likely, I just don't see lore as being a big limitation here.

Bwonsamdi made a deal with the Manastorms (as well as Hakkar and a Broker) so I don't see why not

[Teriz]

Of course not. But you can consider it a translation of the Pocket Factory into WoW.

Animate Dead and Army of the Dead aren't the same thing either, but one is a translation of the ability into WoW.

But you can't, since Clockwerk Goblins are robots built by Goblins. Clockwork Gnomes come from archeology and are more than likely Titan constructs. The latter has nothing to do with factories built by Goblins, nor are they weaponized devices. For all intents and purposes they're sentient like old-school Mechagnomes.

[Nightmare Queen]

And it's not just Bwonsamdi. It encompasses other Loas, like Gonk, Hir'eek, Shango and G'huun. But, that is because i was restricted to Diablo 3 Witch Doctor abilities. There would, of course, be other Loa-related abilities.

Maybe there could be a spec based off of Bwonsamdi? Or it would at least have some abilities inspired by him

[TheRevenantHero]

It's a possibility because you prefer her abilities over those of Mekkatorque's? Because there's no reason to consider her abilities official.

That's a Pandaren Death Knight *facepalm*
Wrong expansion -_-

You wouldn't need shit to utilize nothing. In both WC3 and HotS the Tinker can use his abilities outside of mech form.

That's just cosmetic. If the bonuses are on cooldown, it isn't permanent.

Oh, so the downside isn't viable but, the constant mech is? how convenient...

Not invincible but, if you only have advantages without disadvantages, you would be OP. Even Druid forms have a downside - the inability to cast certain spells while inside them. It's like wanting a permanent Metamorphosis. Both were considered powerful forms in WC3.

You want to tell me a permanent mech form will be about as powerful as a Moonkin form? I highly doubt that...

Ok. that's a solid explanation. Yet, it isn't bound to WC3 or HotS which you, exclusively, regard as the prime schematic for Tinker gameplay.

3 people said they want a Shadow Hunter last pages.



I think Blizzard planned this kind of Monk to be the Discipline Priest. It used to have melee based talents.

But, i totally agree about the fantasy. A Monk should dodge and parry, not absorb damage. Blizzard homogenizing tanks to all be stamina, damage-absorption machines kinda ruins it.



I've made an Alchemist concept containing a Goblin Alchemist spec, an Apothecary spec and, maybe, a Witch Doctor spec.

One would be based on the Goblin Alchemist hero unit of Warcraft 3. The other on the undead Apothecaries and their plagues and blight. The third would mix chemistry with mysticism.



There you go:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e/page111#2202

While Elemental would be based around a 'Volcano' concept, utilizing Lava, lightning and earth, the Enhancement Shaman would be based around the Shaman and Far Seer units of Warcraft III (Rehgar and Thrall in HotS) and Restoration would be based around water and ancestral spirits. Nothing that steps on the toes of a Voodoo-master class.



I, also, did an Alchemist concept:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e/page112#2221

It combines the Warcraft 3 Goblin Alchemist hero, the Forsaken Apothecary and, maybe, even the Witch Doctor.



And it's not just Bwonsamdi. It encompasses other Loas, like Gonk, Hir'eek, Shango and G'huun. But, that is because i was restricted to Diablo 3 Witch Doctor abilities. There would, of course, be other Loa-related abilities.



For example, Witch Doctors can, already, be orcs, ogres, vrykul, gorloc, saberon, pygmy and Lost Ones. We know Tortollan worship Torga and Sethrak worship Sethraliss.



Are you serious? Just because you can't see another race being a Shadow Hunter you prefer it not to be playable? You're just as fanatic as Teriz is.



Saurok and Harpy are listed as Hexxers.
Not to mention that Witch Doctors are, also, orcs, ogres, vrykul, gorloc, saberon, pygmy and Lost Ones. We know Tortollan worship Torga and Sethrak worship Sethraliss.



Summoning an actual factory would be too big.

Just because some people can hex doesn't mean they are using voodoo. So yeah. I'd rather shadow hunter never be playable if it means further butchering the lore.

- - - Updated - - -

Not to mention that now, with the Shadowlands being universal, that Loas are worshipped by other races from other planets.

Like how Elune is worshipped by creatures from planet Fyzandi and Goldrinn making contact with the Orcs on Draenor.

the loa have nothing to do with voodoo. It's never mentioned anywhere that they are source or that they taught it to the trolls.

[qwerty123456]

This is what I said (again);

Which you responded "Of course they can".

Which means that you should have no problem replacing your action bar with engineering items.

Uh, the point is that Blizzard would never use an item to replace a class ability. The only thing I'm demanding is for you to admit that your wrong. However, I guess I'm asking for too much.

If you want me to say they're the same, fine they're the same. Once again you could completely swap Healing Surge and Flash of Light and there would be no noticeable difference. If only we could say the same for items and class abilities.
Yes, and there's a toy that slows your fall as well. I suppose you think a Mage would be willing to trade their ability for one of those cumbersome items.
Your major mistake here is believing that your class character can be an engineer. A Warrior dabbling in the engineering profession is exactly that, a Warrior with a hobby.

I would also love for you to show the quote where I said Gallywix was an ideal Tinker. I'm sure you misread that like you've misread multiple times in this exchange.

I'll repeat this one last time. You never said replace. They most certainly do serve the same purpose and function of class skills just because its balanced differently (like the healing spells you linked) doesn't mean they don't serve the same function healing/doing damage/taunting/etc/..... they are designed to complement the skills a character already has not replace them. Just like a resto shamans chain heal isn't meant to replace all their other heals.

And no the two heals are not identical a 40% reduction of heals based on spell power is alot. Next time you try to weasel out of something maybe actually do some research and use two identical skills like time warp and bloodlust instead of trying to bullshit your way out of something and hope nobody reads the whole thing. And if you are ok with things having different stats then you invalidate your whole argument in the first place. lol

You never said he was an ideal tinker but you have repeatedly stated tinkers are above engineers and then want them to pilot mechs that a dude who doesn't know shit about tech is capable of using. And if anyone can pilot them then why do we need tinkers in the first place? Why not just give us a mech class?

I suggest you take a break from posting about tinkers for a year or two and start doing research so you can put together an actual proper post without having 25 people constantly pointing out all your bullshit and you needing to constantly contradict yourself or try and wriggle out of being wrong.

[jellmoo]

Bwonsamdi made a deal with the Manastorms (as well as Hakkar and a Broker) so I don't see why not

Ultimately, what would be rather cool also is if we got some snippets of lore to backup some of the new Human skin tone/feature options and had some humans reflecting real world black culture. Since Bwomsamdi is a pretty direct representation of a real world figure, having us encounter a group of humans with their own variation of Bwomsamdi worship would be an interesting development.

[Triceron]

But you can't, since Clockwerk Goblins are robots built by Goblins. Clockwork Gnomes come from archeology and are more than likely Titan constructs.

Not all Mechagnomes are Titan Creations, as Blingtron is a Mechagnome (ie Clockwork Gnome) that is created by Engineers.

The latter has nothing to do with factories built by Goblins, nor are they weaponized devices. For all intents and purposes they're sentient like old-school Mechagnomes.

Nope. Blingtron is a Clockwork/Mechagnome, built the same as Clockwork Goblins.

Gnopetto is the creator of the Blingtron, not the Titans. And they do fight, since we encounter them in Brawlers Guilds and in Dazar'alor.

[Teriz]

I'll repeat this one last time. You never said replace. They most certainly do serve the same purpose and function of class skills just because its balanced differently (like the healing spells you linked) doesn't mean they don't serve the same function healing/doing damage/taunting/etc/..... they are designed to complement the skills a character already has not replace them. Just like a resto shamans chain heal isn't meant to replace all their other heals.

Again, if you're saying they serve the same function and purpose, then yes you could replace class abilities with items.

And no the two heals are not identical a 40% reduction of heals based on spell power is alot. Next time you try to weasel out of something maybe actually do some research and use two identical skills like time warp and bloodlust instead of trying to bullshit your way out of something and hope nobody reads the whole thing. And if you are ok with things having different stats then you invalidate your whole argument in the first place. lol

Yeah, but there's a BIG difference between the difference in healing between those spells and using items to replace abilities. Despite that healing difference, I could still use Flash of Light in place of Healing Surge as a Shaman and successfully heal my raid. Unlike say, an engineering item versus a class ability. So once again you miss the point completely. LoL indeed.

Since you don't want to be honest about your mistake, I suppose we're done here. Thanks for admitting you completely made up that comment about Gallywix. There might be some hope for you yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Not all Mechagnomes are Titan Creations, as Blingtron is a Mechagnome (ie Clockwork Gnome) that is created by Engineers.

Nope. Blingtron is a Clockwork/Mechagnome, built the same as Clockwork Goblins.

No, Blingtrons were created to disperse gifts. Clockwerk Goblins were created to be automated weapons. Also I was talking about this guy;

https://www.wowhead.com/item=64372/clockwork-gnome

Not the Blingtrons.

Gnopetto is the creator of the Blingtron, not the Titans. And they do fight, since we encounter them in Brawlers Guilds and in Dazar'alor.

Yeah, I'm not getting into the convoluted lore of Blingtrons because frankly it makes no sense. The point here is that Clockwerk Goblins and Clockwork Gnomes are not the same thing, and are not thematically alike at all. What you're engaging in here is semantics because you're ignoring their inherent differences and relying completely on the similarity in their names.

[Triceron]

Yeah, I'm not getting into the convoluted lore of Blingtrons because frankly it makes no sense. The point here is that Clockwerk Goblins and Clockwork Gnomes are not the same thing, and are not thematically alike at all. What you're engaging in here is semantics because you're ignoring their inherent differences and relying completely on the similarity in their names.

We're talking about translations of WC3 into WoW, and Blingtrons are pretty much exactly what you're talking about. Are there any other Clockwork semi-sentient robots in WoW? Other than the mechanical farm animals and squirrels that are considered pets or explosives?

And it's not semantics if you're talking about translating WC3 abilities into WoW. Isn't that your entire argument, that abilities have a source? Well Blingtron has a rooted influence and it's directly to the Tinkers having the ability to create Clockwork minions of their own race. Since WoW introduced Gnomish Tinkers, then we can assume they make Clockwork Gnomes. And that's exactly what Blingtron is.

If you're talking about any other Clockwork Goblin, then those don't exist at all in WoW. And if they did, it would probably be in Engineering, just like Blingtrons.

[Ielenia]

They were both brought into WoW before the introduction of the Demon Hunter class. That doesn't change the fact that they were translated from WC3 into WoW. And frankly they were translated into WoW quite faithfully.

"Evasion" is a passive ability that permanently grants 30% dodge for the demon hunter in WC3. "Evasion" is an active ability that temporarily grants 100% dodge for the rogue in WoW.

Sounds like different functionalities and gameplay to me. Not to mention being in completely different classes.

You missed the official Blizzard artwork I posted?

None of that is World of Warcraft art. Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone artwork is meaningless if you're going to use them as evidence of canonicity for your claims.

ALL of them were. Every single one.

This is demonstrably false. Where are the "evasion" and "mana burn" abilities on the demon hunter class' spellbook? Oh, that's right: they never existed in the demon hunter class.

Something like Pocket Factory is comparatively simple to something like SEF for example.

And Evasion and Mana Burn were much simpler, comparatively speaking, to Pocket Factory, and yet those abilities do not exist in the Demon Hunter class' repertoire.

I'll repeat: what you have is nothing but your opinion. Your opinion is not fact. Because the tinker class does not exist.

And, again, repeating this question that you keep avoiding:

Just for the record: please define "semantics". Because you just accused me of arguing semantics twice in the same post, and many, many times over the course of several posts, never did I even come close to arguing actual semantics.

Whereas you constantly engage in semantics when you try to redefine words, like when you tried to redefine the word "build":

I would also disagree with the notion that engineers “build” their mech.

When engineers literally build mechs.

It's a simple question, Teriz: define "semantics". Why do you seem so afraid to answer this simple question that you constantly ignore it?

[Teriz]

We're talking about translations of WC3 into WoW, and Blingtrons are pretty much exactly what you're talking about. Are there any other Clockwork semi-sentient robots in WoW? Other than the mechanical farm animals and squirrels that are considered pets or explosives?

And it's not semantics if you're talking about translating WC3 abilities into WoW. Isn't that your entire argument, that abilities have a source? Well Blingtron has a rooted influence and it's directly to the Tinkers having the ability to create Clockwork minions of their own race. Since WoW introduced Gnomish Tinkers, then we can assume they make Clockwork Gnomes. And that's exactly what Blingtron is.

Which means absolutely nothing when we're talking about Tinker abilities and the production of Clockwerk Goblins. Simply because they don't exist in WoW doesn't mean that we fill the absent lore with opinion of what its suppose to be. That's called head canon. Pocket Factory and Clockwerk Goblins exist within the lore of Warcraft, which means by default they should also exist in WoW. Simply because Blizzard hasn't gotten around to them yet doesn't mean that we replace them with something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.

If you're talking about any other Clockwork Goblin, then those don't exist at all in WoW. And if they did, it would probably be in Engineering, just like Blingtrons.

And that's head canon.

- - - Updated - - -

"Evasion" is a passive ability that permanently grants 30% dodge for the demon hunter in WC3. "Evasion" is an active ability that temporarily grants 100% dodge for the rogue in WoW.

Sounds like different functionalities and gameplay to me. Not to mention being in completely different classes.

Yes, all passive dodge abilities were replaced for WoW since a passive dodge of 30% would be OP.

That's common sense dude.

None of that is World of Warcraft art. Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone artwork is meaningless if you're going to use them as evidence of canonicity for your claims.

It's not meaningless since Blizzard has stated they will use Blizzard sources outside of canon lore for WoW.

This is demonstrably false. Where are the "evasion" and "mana burn" abilities on the demon hunter class' spellbook? Oh, that's right: they never existed in the demon hunter class.

Because they entered WoW BEFORE the Demon Class. Again, that doesn't change the FACT that they were translated into WoW from WC3.

And Evasion and Mana Burn were much simpler, comparatively speaking, to Pocket Factory, and yet those abilities do not exist in the Demon Hunter class' repertoire.

See above.

I'll repeat: what you have is nothing but your opinion. Your opinion is not fact.

Again, I'm using facts and precedent.

It's a simple question, Teriz: define "semantics". Why do you seem so afraid to answer this simple question that you constantly ignore it?

Because I have no desire to argue semantics. It's a waste of time.

[Triceron]

That's called head canon. Pocket Factory and Clockwerk Goblins exist within the lore of Warcraft

Actually, they don't. They don't ever appear in the lore.

Gazlowe doesn't use any abilities, and was literally a Vendor in Reforged. He doesn't even use them in Heroes of the Storm. They only appear in the non-canon game modes.

And that's head canon.

If you're talking about Tinkers creating Clockwork minions, then Blingtron exists as an example of that. Clockwork Goblins aren't actually anywhere in the lore, sadly.

[Teriz]

Actually, they don't. They don't ever appear in the lore.

WC3 is lore.

Gazlowe doesn't use any abilities, and was literally a Vendor in Reforged. He doesn't even use them in Heroes of the Storm. They only appear in the non-canon game modes.

Again, doesn't matter. Everything Tinker-related in WC3 is considered canon lore;

Which sources are canon and non-canon?
Canon
Everything released by Blizzard except mods and the table-top RPG is considered canon.[1] This includes games, novels, short stories, manga, and comics[1][2] as well as trailers and cinematics. Warcraft Encyclopedia, History of Warcraft, game manuals and original Warcraft RTS games are also considered canon but in some cases they are overwritten or modified by novels (i.e. history of eredar retconned in Rise of the Horde, War of the Ancients and its aftermath slightly altered by the time-travel in the novel, Dawn of the Aspects revealing the true history of the Aspects instead of a legend told in a History chapter, and Tides of Darkness with Beyond the Dark Portal setting a canon line of events for the first RTS games which had two versions of the ending).
The current history of Warcraft was slightly retconned by the WoW Chronicle series.[3]
No longer available quests that were not replaced by new information should be canon.[4]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lore

If you're talking about Tinkers creating Clockwork minions, then Blingtron exists as an example of that. Clockwork Goblins aren't actually anywhere in the lore, sadly.

See above. Based on lore there are Tinkers with claw packs who build pocket factories that produce clockwerk goblins. If those "tinkers" you describe don't do that, then we're not talking about the same thing.

[Triceron]

WC3 is lore.

Sure, if you treat it as backstory.

And the Clockwork Goblin backstory is "Hey it's the Clockwerk Goblin! He and his friends are coming for you. You'd better run or he's going to get you. Are you scared? ARE YOU SCARED?"

Seems legit.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lore

From the link

- Warcraft RTS games are also considered canon but in some cases they are overwritten
- While not officially confirmed by Blizzard, the multiplayer RTS maps are probably non-canon.

See above. Based on lore there are Tinkers with claw packs who build pocket factories that produce clockwerk goblins. If those "tinkers" you describe don't do that, then we're not talking about the same thing.

Are you saying Gnomes would make Clockwork Goblins too?