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  1. #361
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Ah ok so it's ok to use the excuse of "Blizzard can write lore for the race" when it comes to Vulpera but not any other race? Are you seriously incapable of seeing how much of an egregious double standard that is?
    You clearly haven't been paying attention. Let me give you a run down of possible Tinker abilities;

    Pocket Factory: produce a miniature factory that produce clockwork goblins that attack and then explode.
    Deth Lazor!: Fire a laser that damages targets in a straight line.
    Cluster Rockets: Launch a volley of missiles that damage targets.
    Megafantastic Discombobumorphanator: Turns target into a robotic chicken
    Signal Exploding Sheep – Mekkatorque calls down a herd of Explosive Sheep that detonate after a short delay.

    Do any of those abilities sound like something you'd see a Draenei using while piloting a Lightforged Warframe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Don't forget Anti-personnel Squirrels!
    Yep, those too.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2020-11-22 at 06:03 AM.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Do any of those abilities sound like something you'd see a Draenei using while piloting a Lightforged Warframe?
    Why bother? You won't accept any answer but no anyway.
    Expansion leak claiming Legion is the last expansion
    Quote Originally Posted by golds
    NO it will be me laughing at how you doubted this....
    Quote Originally Posted by golds
    I was right

  3. #363
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Tinkers/Tinkerers are just Engineers.

    Off the top of my head:

    Dragonkin as a new Alliance race, Warder as a new class based off the Onyxian Warders but instead trained by Wrathion, mail hybrid void-based Agility/Intellect Protection Tank spec with free weapon choice (2H, 1H+OH, 1H+Shield, 2x1H), mail hybrid Holy/Void-based Agility/Intellect Shieldwarden Healing spec (moving the over-shielding mechanic off of Discipline so they can focus on DPS-to-heal), given to Dragonkin, Worgen, Orcs, Undead, Goblins, Void Elves, LF Draenei, and Nightborne.
    Last edited by Firebert; 2020-11-22 at 06:00 AM.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/T/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/0/1 | Mafia: 1/6/0/7 | TPR: 0/4/1/5
    SK: 0/1/0/1 | VT: 2/4/2/6 | Cult: 1/0/0/1

  4. #364
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Two player summoned NPC's with a health bar that generates minions who then follow and do damage to the target aren't the same?

    Are you high?
    One is a minature building, the other is a flower. One is producing robotic soldiers while the other one is shooting out pollen. You're saying this is the same?

    Are you high?

    And the plant couldn't generate different kinds of spores that could do more damage, heal allies, leave debris when they expire, etc.?
    So are these spores going to sprout little arms and legs and punch their target in face before they blow up? Maybe the "Flower" can resemble the fire flower from Super Mario Bros, and right before it expires the Druid can pick it up and turn red and start shooting fireballs at their enemies.

    I mean we've already crossed the bridge of nonsense so why stop now?

    Uh, no they're not. The only difference is their theme, their "palette" as you called it one of your earlier posts. You're simply refusing to acknowledge it.

    And what does this have anything to do with this specific discussion? This is entirely around theme =/=mechanics.

    And with that I'm just done. I should have put you on ignore a long time ago.
    Be my guest. You're purposely twisting and turning a non-existent ability for the sole purpose of making a contrarian argument against an existing Warcraft ability because you don't want to admit that the existing WC ability is using unique mechanics. If you can't see how absolutely dumb that is, then perhaps it is best that we end this conversation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Why bother? You won't accept any answer but no anyway.
    If you mean I'll only accept the facts, you'd be correct.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2020-11-22 at 06:01 AM.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You clearly haven't been paying attention. Let me give you a run down of possible Tinker abilities;

    Pocket Factory: produce a miniature factory that produce clockwork goblins that attack and then explode.
    Deth Lazor!: Fire a laser that damages targets in a straight line.
    Cluster Rockets: Launch a volley of missiles that damage targets.
    Megafantastic Discombobumorphanator: Turns target into a robotic chicken
    Signal Exploding Sheep – Mekkatorque calls down a herd of Explosive Sheep that detonate after a short delay.

    Do any of those abilities sound like something you'd see a Draenei using while piloting a Lightforged Warframe?
    Ok those are possible tinker abilities that YOU would make so seriously, stop claiming your headcanon is the right answer. Also, everything you listed except pocket factory is basically shit engineers can already do. Which further shows that going down the tinker path that you describe would lead to one of two things. Either engineering will be rendered pretty much obsolete because now players can do everything engineering does without spending gold OR Blizzard will make tinker far more diverse which will easily lead to other races becoming tinkers. The former would be an absolute shitshow and would definitely piss of a lot of people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    One is a minature building, the other is a flower. One is producing robotic soldiers while the other one is shooting out pollen. You're saying this is the same?

    Are you high?



    So are these spores going to sprout little arms and legs and punch their target in face before they blow up? Maybe the "Flower" can resemble the fire flower from Super Mario Bros, and right before it expires the Druid can pick it up and turn red and start shooting fireballs at their enemies.

    I mean we've already crossed the bridge of nonsense so why stop now?



    Be my guest. You're purposely twisting and turning a non-existent ability for the sole purpose of making a contrarian argument against an existing Warcraft ability because you don't want to admit that the existing WC ability is using unique mechanics. If you can't see how absolutely dumb that is, then perhaps it is best that we end this conversation.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you mean I'll only accept the facts, you'd be correct.
    If you mean I'll only accept comments that support my headcanons, you'd be correct* fixed that for you. You're welcome.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Ah ok so it's ok to use the excuse of "Blizzard can write lore for the race" when it comes to Vulpera but not any other race? Are you seriously incapable of seeing how much of an egregious double standard that is?
    Just stop trying to discuss with him. Teriz is the most intellectually dishonest poster I've ever encountered in the 10 years I've been a member, with double standards being only part of the problem. The sheer amount of mental gymnastics he does to dodge questions, move the goalposts, play word games and twist the discussion to fit his narrative is disgusting. Just look at what the thread has devolved into since he showed up. A nonstop argument about why his ideas are the only good ones and nobody else knows what they're talking about.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Just stop trying to discuss with him. Teriz is the most intellectually dishonest poster I've ever encountered in the 10 years I've been a member, with double standards being only part of the problem. The sheer amount of mental gymnastics he does to dodge questions, move the goalposts, play word games and twist the discussion to fit his narrative is disgusting. Just look at what the thread has devolved into since he showed up. A nonstop argument about why his ideas are the only good ones and nobody else knows what they're talking about.
    Oh, trust me. I know. I mostly respond so he can intellectually hang himself in front of everyone. I know how to talk to people like him that gets them to spew nothing but dishonesty and double standards. I know everything he says is utterly incorrect but I respond anyway so everyone can watch the living embodiment of hypocrisy.

  8. #368
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Ok those are possible tinker abilities that YOU would make so seriously, stop claiming your headcanon is the right answer. Also, everything you listed except pocket factory is basically shit engineers can already do. Which further shows that going down the tinker path that you describe would lead to one of two things. Either engineering will be rendered pretty much obsolete because now players can do everything engineering does without spending gold OR Blizzard will make tinker far more diverse which will easily lead to other races becoming tinkers. The former would be an absolute shitshow and would definitely piss of a lot of people.
    Well actually no. Pocket Factory and Deth Lazor are actual Tinker abilities.

    The rest come from prominent NPCs who could be considered Tinkers in lore, and are possible sources for Tinker abilities.

    Also a class wouldn't make a profession obsolete. Classes can't sell their abilities to other players. Like I can't produce bombs as a Tinker and sell them at the auction house. Also just because a Tinker can pilot a mech doesn't mean that a warrior or Druid wouldn't purchase a sky golem from an Engineer.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If you mean I'll only accept the facts, you'd be correct.
    You're like the dribbles (brexit thread) of tinkers; only your opinions count as facts and everything else is fake.
    Expansion leak claiming Legion is the last expansion
    Quote Originally Posted by golds
    NO it will be me laughing at how you doubted this....
    Quote Originally Posted by golds
    I was right

  10. #370
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    You're like the dribbles (brexit thread) of tinkers; only your opinions count as facts and everything else is fake.
    What "opinions" would those be? Are you talking about the notion that Goblin and Gnome tech (whacky steampunk) doesn't really mesh well with Draenei and Nightborne tech (Magi-tech), thus making it unlikely that Blizzard would create a class with both those types of tech?

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well actually no. Pocket Factory and Deth Lazor are actual Tinker abilities.

    The rest come from prominent NPCs who could be considered Tinkers in lore, and are possible sources for Tinker abilities.

    Also a class wouldn't make a profession obsolete. Classes can't sell their abilities to other players. Like I can't produce bombs as a Tinker and sell them at the auction house. Also just because a Tinker can pilot a mech doesn't mean that a warrior or Druid wouldn't purchase a sky golem from an Engineer.
    If you don't see how your version of tinker would render engineering utterly obsolete then there really is absolutely no hope in trying to debate this with you. What do you not understand about "If players can just level a class to accomplish everything an engineer does without spending gold" do you NOT understand? Or are you being purposely obtuse?

    Oh, and also, you have successfully created a double standard by yourself. You have just admitted that from a lore standpoint, there is NO reason other races can't just pilot and use a mech, thereby qualifying them for tinker.

  12. #372
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    If you don't see how your version of tinker would render engineering utterly obsolete then there really is absolutely no hope in trying to debate this with you. What do you not understand about "If players can just level a class to accomplish everything an engineer does without spending gold" do you NOT understand? Or are you being purposely obtuse?
    An engineer builds items to sell to people, not to make themselves into a functional class. What a bizarre and silly argument to make.

    I mean, how and why would the Tinker class prevent a Hunter from purchasing a pair of crafted engineering goggles, a gun, or a Sky Golem?

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    An engineer builds items to sell to people, not to make themselves into a functional class. What a bizarre and silly argument to make.

    I mean, how and why would the Tinker class prevent a Hunter from purchasing a pair of crafted engineering goggles, a gun, or a Sky Golem?
    There is no way you are not being purposely obtuse. Why would I spend gold on a gun or goggles or a sky golem when Tinker can provide all those things FOR FREE and all I have to do is level one? Tinker is just engineer with gold and material costs removed.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    There is no way you are not being purposely obtuse. Why would I spend gold on a gun or goggles or a sky golem when Tinker can provide all those things FOR FREE and all I have to do is level one? Tinker is just engineer with gold and material costs removed.
    Why bother playing a mage or a shaman when you can bang on some drums for the buff? Why would you use engineering when you could just go Demon Hunter for that added mobility but for free? I'm not saying you don't have a point but this comparison is stupid - things can coexist together and not make it obsolete.

    Engineering is a profession people can learn even if they have these things on their class. If Tinker (or any new class) had similarities with a profession and what they offered... Who cares?

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    An engineer builds items to sell to people, not to make themselves into a functional class. What a bizarre and silly argument to make.

    I mean, how and why would the Tinker class prevent a Hunter from purchasing a pair of crafted engineering goggles, a gun, or a Sky Golem?
    Ok...

    I have read your bunch, am i correct to assume that what you proposing is literally cranking engineering items numbers to the point its a viable combat class and not a profession?

    Can you seriously not see why it wont happen?

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    Why bother playing a mage or a shaman when you can bang on some drums for the buff? Why would you use engineering when you could just go Demon Hunter for that added mobility but for free? I'm not saying you don't have a point but this comparison is stupid - things can coexist together and not make it obsolete.

    Engineering is a profession people can learn even if they have these things on their class. If Tinker (or any new class) had similarities with a profession and what they offered... Who cares?
    That's nowhere near comparable because drums only gives 15% buff. Engineers can't double jump like demon hunter.

    What I'm saying is that Teriz's idea for tinkering is literally just engineer without the gold and materials cost. I'm not saying that's what tinker will be. I'm saying that Teriz's version is definitely just engineer in class form.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    That's nowhere near comparable because drums only gives 15% buff. Engineers can't double jump like demon hunter.

    What I'm saying is that Teriz's idea for tinkering is literally just engineer without the gold and materials cost. I'm not saying that's what tinker will be. I'm saying that Teriz's version is definitely just engineer in class form.
    Personally I wouldn't see an issue to give a class something unique like that - engineering built in and just what they have. An extra profession essentially - but maybe that's not what Teriz is saying or you are. But I still don't see an issue of having superior abilities in a class when compared to direct counterparts in the utility driven profession.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    Personally I wouldn't see an issue to give a class something unique like that - engineering built in and just what they have. An extra profession essentially - but maybe that's not what Teriz is saying or you are. But I still don't see an issue of having superior abilities in a class when compared to direct counterparts in the utility driven profession.
    Once again, I'm not opposed either but the class would have to be far more different from the engineering profession in that case. But Teriz's description of his version of tinker is literally just engineer that you don't have to pay for with in game currency.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Once again, I'm not opposed either but the class would have to be far more different from the engineering profession in that case. But Teriz's description of his version of tinker is literally just engineer that you don't have to pay for with in game currency.
    Still makes no sense imo cause said tinker will deploy bots, shoot lasers and do as such (tho different to actual engineering profession somehow)

  20. #380
    Tinker is the only class that would really excite me.

    Plus I would love another class that uses firearms.

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