If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

From chinese cultures? Blizzard don't really invent the wheel when it comes fantasy. They are pretty derivative, Monk classes in fantasy since forever have drawn from chinese and other east asian cultures.

The specs themselves are based on chinese/wuxia martial arts archetypes, the august celestials are based on the four cardinal guardians, the pandaren are obviously based on chinese culture, the mogu are based on chinese guardian lions they basically just gave them a fantasy coat of paint. making a chinese culture equivilent panda's isn't that unique since it's their fucking national animal, the most flavor they really give the concepts is making the Drunken Boxer martial artist actually drunk which is more just exaggerating a concept than inventing something new.

Yeah, because the Pandaren concept in of itself is based on China, Chinese folklore, and Chinese history. So obviously when you expand the Pandaren theme, you're going to start absorbing more of the base influence. However that still doesn't change the fact that when Blizzard created the Monk class, they used the Pandaren theme and concept to base the class on.

I would say the only truly unqiue or non-derivitive element of the Monk class is that the Mistweavers use the eponymous Mists of Pandaria the expansion is named after, other than that it's relatively standard fantasy monk flair. I'd honestly say the Diablo 3 Monk is a more original take on a Monk class since it combines holy/divine powers with eastern martial arts and the character eurasian/eastern european style instead of just a chinese/east asian style

Then by all means, find me a Monk class in a RPG game where they're using an assortment of brews to empower themselves.

And notice when it comes to the forefrought it usually drops the overly comedic stylings that Gnome/Goblin tech is used for in every other circumstances, the Iron Juggernaut and Iron Stars weren't even mainly used by Goblins it was used by the True/Iron Horde. So yeah i think if the technological elements of WoW get their own class I don't think it would be represented in a comedic fashion, and if it isn't treated in a comic relief way it really has no business being exclusive to comic relief races like Gnomes and Goblins and should be available to a wider set of races especially other races who have shown a openess to technology either by inventing their own or being open to using others like Dwarves, Draenei, Nightborne and Orcs/Mag'har and Forsaken (if alchemy is a part of it)

The Iron Juggernaut and the Iron Star were both invented by Helix Blackfuse, and we have two cutscenes where Blackfuse appears before a fight bragging about his inventions and getting pissed when you destroy them, especially the Iron Juggernaut which was clearly his pride and joy. So you never had any doubt who was behind both inventions, even when the Iron Horde started using Iron Stars as engines for their war machines in WoD. You also have Mekkatorque's mech which isn't whacky or silly, but when he appears as a boss character in Battle of Drazelor (sp?) he has whimsical abilities like P.L.O.T. Armor and Exploding sheep.

As I said before, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, and honestly there's probably a sizable population of WoW players who would welcome a class like that over another dark and edgy class.

I don't have issue with it using the surface level aesthetics (for the races that use that style i think Draenei/Nightborne should use their respective magi-tech style of technology) of since thats the established look of that what technology is in Warcraft but i don't think it needs to also be entirely about Chicken bombs, shrink rays, clockwork midgets, clawpacks and other overly comedic or wacky forms of it, especially since that doesn't fit non-goblin/gnome races.

Well you have to think about it in terms of class mechanics; Is there a legitimate purpose for a class ability that shrinks a target? Absolutely. Is there a legitimate purpose for a class ability that drops a factory that mass produces clockwork gnomes or goblins? Again, absolutely. Is there a legitimate purpose for a mechanical backpack that acts as a weapons platform that can launch missiles, deploy pocket factories, drop turrets, and has the ability of its arms to transform from claws/hands to cannons? Again, absolutely.

In the end, every class isn't meant to appeal to every person. We also shouldn't dismiss a concept because it doesn't resemble the aesthetic of other games. Yeah, the Monk class in WoW threw me for a loop when it was first introduced, but when I think back to RPG Monk classes I've played, I realized that I played WoW's monk the most because the brewing aspect was always interesting to me. Which is why I hope Blizzard brings out a technology class, because given their track record, they could make a unique and interesting one.

[Ielenia]

Then by all means, find me a Monk class in a RPG game where they're using an assortment of brews to empower themselves.

The simple fact you have to severely restrict the pool of sources to "RPG only" shows how full of BS you are, because you know that your argument falls to pieces when one realizes that Blizzard does not base their ideas solely on other games, and RPG games only, at that, but in all media as a whole. At that point we see that "drunken martial arts" is a common sight in medieval and modern fantasy as a whole.

[Imperator4321]

Yeah, because the Pandaren concept in of itself is based on China, Chinese folklore, and Chinese history. So obviously when you expand the Pandaren theme, you're going to start absorbing more of the base influence. However that still doesn't change the fact that when Blizzard created the Monk class, they used the Pandaren theme and concept to base the class on.

And they based Pandaren culture on chinese culture and it's archetypes which is where things like Shaolin-style Windwalkers, Mystic-style Mistweavers, August Celestials, Chi, the Brewmaster drunken boxing style animations come from from and these inspirations aren't anything new they have been tropes associated with Monk and Monk-like classes since forever.

Then by all means, find me a Monk class in a RPG game where they're using an assortment of brews to empower themselves.

Drunken Master monk archetype from the advanced players guide for pathfinder from 2010

"Most monks lead lives of moderation and quiet contemplation. But the drunken master finds perfection through excess. Powered by strong wine, he uses his intoxication to reach a state where his ki is more potent, if somewhat fleeting. A drunken master has the following class features."

"Drunken Ki (Su)
At 3rd level, a drunken master can drink a tankard of ale or strong alcohol and gain one temporary ki point. The act of drinking is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. "

"Drunken Courage (Su)

At 11th level, a drunken master is immune to fear as long as he has at least 1 point of drunken ki. "

"Drunken Resilience (Ex)

At 13th level, a drunken master gains DR 1/— as long as he has at least 1 point of drunken ki. At 16th level, the DR increases to 2/—. At 19th level, it increases to 3/—. "

"Firewater Breath (Su)

At 19th level, a drunken master can take a drink and expel a gout of alcohol-fueled fire in a 30-foot cone. Creatures within the cone take 20d6 points of fire damage. A successful Reflex saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier) halves the damage. Using this ability is a standard action that consumes 4 ki points from the monk’s ki pool. The monk must have at least 1 drunken ki point to use this ability. "


Minor one from Monk: Way of the Drunken Master which is a monastic tradition tradition from Xanthar's guide to everything for 5e D&D

"When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Performance skill if you don't already have it. Your martial arts technique mixes combat training with the precision of a dancer and the antics of a jester. You also gain proficiency with brewer's supplies if you don't already have it."

The simple fact you have to severely restrict the pool of sources to "RPG only" shows how full of BS you are, because you know that your argument falls to pieces when one realizes that Blizzard does not base their ideas solely on other games, and RPG games only, at that, but in all media as a whole. At that point we see that "drunken martial arts" is a common sight in medieval and modern fantasy as a whole.

Didn't even take a minute to find an RPG class/archetype from before Mists of Pandaria who empowered himself with alcohol, Drunken martial arts is not something Blizzard invented, hell practically nothing from WoW was invented by Blizzard 90% of it is derivative in some manner.

[Teriz]

The simple fact you have to severely restrict the pool of sources to "RPG only" shows how full of BS you are, because you know that your argument falls to pieces when one realizes that Blizzard does not base their ideas solely on other games, and RPG games only, at that, but in all media as a whole. At that point we see that "drunken martial arts" is a common sight in medieval and modern fantasy as a whole.

If what the WoW Monk presents is common, there should be no problem finding another monk class in RPGs, ARPGs, or MMORPGs that also use an assortment of brews to fight with.

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And they based Pandaren culture on chinese culture.

Yeah, I said that.

and it's archetypes which is where things like Shaolin-style Windwalkers, Mystic-style Mistweavers, August Celestials, Chi, the Brewmaster drunken boxing style animations come from from and these inspirations aren't anything new they have been tropes associated with Monk and Monk-like classes since forever.

And they're all drinking brews to enhance themselves. Even the Windwalkers and the Mistweavers. Thats the point.

Drunken Master monk archetype from the advanced players guide for pathfinder from 2010 (so 2 years before mists of pandaria)

You do know that the Pandaren Brewmaster class dates back to 2008 right?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Brewmaster

And btw, I was talking about the non-Drunken master Monk. Again, the Windwalker monk isn't a drunken-style trope, but it still uses brews to fight with.

[Imperator4321]

You do know that the Pandaren Brewmaster class dates back to 2008 right?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Brewmaster

And do you think the Paizo games took the concept from Blizzard for their own TRPG or is "Drunken martial artist" something thats not an inventive concept since the Drunken Boxer has been a concept since at least the 14th-century

"Water Margin (simplified Chinese: 水浒传; traditional Chinese: 水滸傳; pinyin: Shuǐhǔ Zhuàn), also translated as Outlaws of the Marsh, Tale of the Marshes or All Men Are Brothers, is a 14th-century Chinese novel attributed to Shi Nai'an."

"It has introduced readers to many of the best-known characters in Chinese literature, such as Song Jiang, Wu Song, Lin Chong and Lu Zhishen."

"Wu Song is a martial arts student of Zhou Tong and specialises in Chuojiao. In the novel he fights well with bang (quarterstaff) or a pair of broadswords."

"Wu demonstrates his physical might by lifting with one hand a hefty urn. He also says his fighting ability is at its peak when he is drunk"

It's almost like the Pandaren Brewmaster is based on a stock chinese fantasy/martial arts archetype instead of an original concept.

[Teriz]

And do you think the Paizo games took the concept from Blizzard for their own TRPG or is "Drunken martial artist" something thats not an inventive concept since the Drunken Boxer has been a concept since at least the 14th-century

"Water Margin (simplified Chinese: 水浒传; traditional Chinese: 水滸傳; pinyin: Shuǐhǔ Zhuàn), also translated as Outlaws of the Marsh, Tale of the Marshes or All Men Are Brothers, is a 14th-century Chinese novel attributed to Shi Nai'an."

"It has introduced readers to many of the best-known characters in Chinese literature, such as Song Jiang, Wu Song, Lin Chong and Lu Zhishen."

"Wu Song is a martial arts student of Zhou Tong and specialises in Chuojiao. In the novel he fights well with bang (quarterstaff) or a pair of broadswords."

"Wu demonstrates his physical might by lifting with one hand a hefty urn. He also says his fighting ability is at its peak when he is drunk"

I never said they did. You stated that the Paizo game came out before MoP, I was merely showing you that the Brewmaster concept came out first. And yeah, you found another Drunken Master Monk. My point is that WoW's Monk has the use of brews in all of its specs, even the healing one.

[Ielenia]

If what the WoW Monk presents is common, there should be no problem finding another monk class in RPGs, ARPGs, or MMORPGs that also use an assortment of brews to fight with.

Jackie Chan movie 'Drunken Master' is one famous movie. The trope is also famous in many other movies in east Asia, as well as many shows and anime featuring martial arts.

Also:
• Mortal Kombat: Bo Rai Cho is a drunken martial artist, introduced ten years before Mists of Pandaria.
• Tekken: Lei Wulong is a martial artist whose moves greatly resemble the 'drunken fist' art style, introduced ten years before Mists of Pandaria.
• Wakfu: Pandawa is a martial artist character with drunken moves in the game announced before Mists of Pandaria.

Just three I found with a quick Google search.

[DanskenVI]

This is one me and my friend came up with a while ago

Sorcerer/Witch
Available races;
Horde - Troll, Undead, Orc, Blood elf, Nightborne
Alliance - Human, Gnome, Dwarf, Void Elf, Worgen

Available Specializations;
Smoke - A high mobility combo points based ranged caster, using smoke and shadow magic to stay one step ahead of his enemies
Wicker - A summoner class, able to summon many of the different abbarations we've seen in drustvar
Blood - A powerful caster, using blood magic to leech from his enemies and own health pool to sustain himself/herself with

[Teriz]

Jackie Chan movie 'Drunken Master' is one famous movie. The trope is also famous in many other movies in east Asia, as well as many shows and anime featuring martial arts.

Also:
• Mortal Kombat: Bo Rai Cho is a drunken martial artist, introduced ten years before Mists of Pandaria.
• Tekken: Lei Wulong is a martial artist whose moves greatly resemble the 'drunken fist' art style, introduced ten years before Mists of Pandaria.
• Wakfu: Pandawa is a martial artist character with drunken moves in the game announced before Mists of Pandaria.

Just three I found with a quick Google search.

Yeah, you misunderstood. I'm saying a Monk concept that isn't a drunken fighter that is using an assortment of brews to enhance themselves (like Mistweaver and Windwalker). Brews and Brewing is a significant sub theme in the WoW Monk class.

[lep]

Cultist - Cloth
Desecration : Melee 2H Spec, shapeshifting into the herald of the void/avatar of the old gods on cd,increasing armor and attack speed.. Faceless model with tentacle face etc.
Sanguination: 1h/ offhand / Staff , Blood caster, uses HP or another resource ( blood) to cast spells, think Vlad in LoL, and using blood offensively as opposed to B DK.
Plague Doctor: 1h/ offhand / Staff , Heals with leeches / transfusions, Parasites,buffs allies with Fumes, offensive with reflect damage mechanics- deliriums/hysteria

[Triceron]

I think they could have another resoruce too, maybe called Anima or something? And they could be like the Shadow Priest where a few of their spells cost Mana, and the rest generate stuff?

With Shadowlands in play, Anima should definitely be considered a resource for any future Necromancy-related class.

[Ielenia]

It was said that even when the night warrior's power was spread, it still killed everyone that housed the power.

I've just completed the Night Fae campaign and the only time (that I recall) in which the power of the Night Warrior was spread was just between two characters: the Night Warrior himself and his husband.

Shandris and Ysera then discuss the possibility of spreading the power of the Night Warrior through multiple people, not just two. That is an idea that could allow the Night Warrior to become a class on its own, lore-wise.

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Yeah, you misunderstood. I'm saying a Monk concept that isn't a drunken fighter that is using an assortment of brews to enhance themselves (like Mistweaver and Windwalker). Brews and Brewing is a significant sub theme in the WoW Monk class.

No, I understood correctly. I just don't accept your restrictive premises. Besides, you just reduced "using an assortment of brews to enhance themselves" to the same level as "character using alchemy potion", considering that using an alchemical potion is literally a "character using brews to enhance themselves".

Also, go read the Pandawa description and you'll find out that, even with your arbitrary restrictions, one example was found.

[Teriz]

No, I understood correctly. I just don't accept your restrictive premises. Besides, you just reduced "using an assortment of brews to enhance themselves" to the same level as "character using alchemy potion", considering that using an alchemical potion is literally a "character using brews to enhance themselves". Also, go read the Pandawa description and you'll find out that, even with your arbitrary restrictions, one example was found.

I was merely asking for some examples of standard Monk classes using brews like Monks do. Not drunken Monks, but standard monks.

Pandawas were clearly taken from the Panda Brewmaster concept, so they don't really qualify.

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Back to the point of all of this; the Monk class is very illustrative of what we should expect from a Tinker class, since like the Monk, the Tinker wouldn't be a hero class but a new base class. More than likely the "Tinker" would be a spec, just like the Brewmaster turned out to be but the entire class would retain the Goblin flavor throughout. How far Blizzard would take that is anyone's guess. I wouldn't be surprised if the Goblin Tinker is used for DPS, Gazlowe/Mekkatorque in mech form is used for tanking, and the Goblin Alchemist is used for healing.

[Ielenia]

How is it restrictive?

Because we keep saying "popular media", which includes comics, movies, TV shows, books and games, and you not only want to restrict it to only games, but to ROLE-PLAYING games only.

And I've already debunked your claim. I've shown you examples of martial artists using booze to fight drunk and improve themselves.

One example that clearly came from the Pandaren Brewmaster concept.

Bull-fucking-shit.

The Wakfu game is based off the Wakfu TV series, and in the second season, that premiered in 2011, had a character called "Pandiego de la Vega", which was a humanoid panda. One whole year before the Mists of Pandaria expansion. The class itself was based off of another game from the same company called Dofus from the same company, that came out in 2004.

You lost, Teriz. Plain and simple.

[Teriz]

Because we keep saying "popular media", which includes comics, movies, TV shows, books and games, and you not only want to restrict it to only games, but to ROLE-PLAYING games only.

And I've already debunked your claim. I've shown you examples of martial artists using booze to fight drunk and improve themselves.

One example that was clearly taken from Blizzard is "examples"? Okay.

Bull-fucking-shit.

The Wakfu game is based off the Wakfu TV series, and in the second season, that premiered in 2011, had a character called "Pandiego de la Vega", which was a humanoid panda. One whole year before the Mists of Pandaria expansion. The class itself was based off of another game from the same company called Dofus from the same company, that came out in 2004.

You lost, Teriz. Plain and simple.

And Chen Stormstout was created in 2003, and became a hero in WC3 in 2004. Dofus didn't release the Pandawa class until 2011.

[Ielenia]

One example that was clearly taken from Blizzard is "examples"? Okay.

Why do you think that a game/series with loads of anthropomorphic animals would need Warcraft 3 of all sources to come up with the idea of an anthropomorphic panda character that employs asian-style martial arts? It is beyond arrogant and, frankly, stupid out of you to presume that they would use Warcraft 3, instead of going to the actual source of the concept, which is China itself, where pandas are a huge thing, as well as martial arts, in both real life AND popular media?

Do you honestly believe that Blizzard was the VERY FIRST ONE to ever come up with the idea of anthropomorphic pandas? And it's not even the "pandaren monk" thing considering the WC3 unit was not a monk, or even a martial artist.

And Chen Stormstout was created in 2003, and became a hero in WC3 in 2004. Dofus didn't release the Pandawa class until 2011.

False. It was released in 2006.

[Teriz]

Why do you think that a game/series with loads of anthropomorphic animals would need Warcraft 3 of all sources to come up with the idea of an anthropomorphic panda character that employs asian-style martial arts? It is beyond arrogant and, frankly, stupid out of you to presume that they would use Warcraft 3, instead of going to the actual source of the concept, which is China itself, where pandas are a huge thing, as well as martial arts, in both real life AND popular media?

Do you honestly believe that Blizzard was the VERY FIRST ONE to ever come up with the idea of anthropomorphic pandas? And it's not even the "pandaren monk" thing considering the WC3 unit was not a monk, or even a martial artist.

Because it’s quite possible that’s where they got the idea from. Either way, none of that matters, because it’s only one example.

False. It was released in 2006.

Three years after the Pandaren Brewmaster appeared in WC3.

[Ielenia]

Because it’s quite possible that’s where they got the idea from.

Which is completely useless and irrelevant information unless you can prove that Ankama Games based their character and class specifically on the Warcraft 3 pandaren brewmaster unit.

Either way, none of that matters, because it’s only one example.

It was one example off a quick Google search. And I've shown that 'drunken martial artists' and 'monks who use drinks to enhance themselves' is a common trope.

Three years after the Pandaren Brewmaster appeared in WC3.

Which is completely useless and irrelevant information unless you can prove that Ankama Games based their character and class specifically on the Warcraft 3 pandaren brewmaster unit.

But, hey, we all know that you, Teriz, love to dismiss what other people say as opinions and "headcanons" while in the same breath constantly use your own opinions as facts.

The idea that Ankama Games based off their character on the Warcraft 3 game is ludicrous at best, an asinine at worst.

[Teriz]

Which is completely useless and irrelevant information unless you can prove that Ankama Games based their character and class specifically on the Warcraft 3 pandaren brewmaster unit.

Just because you didn’t know that the Brewnaster was a martial arts character doesn’t mean that no one else did.

It was one example off a quick Google search. And I've shown that 'drunken martial artists' and 'monks who use drinks to enhance themselves' is a common trope.

Which isn’t what I asked for. I asked for RPG monk classes that use an assortment of brews to empower themselves. Not the Drunken martial arts, but your standard run of the mill Monk class. Much like the Windwalker Monk.

Which is completely useless and irrelevant information unless you can prove that Ankama Games based their character and class specifically on the Warcraft 3 pandaren brewmaster unit.

Nah, I have no interest in proving to you that the Pandawan Pint came from the Pandaren Brewmaster. People can make up their own minds. This thread is about future classes, not having circular arguments about existing ones.

[Ielenia]

Just because you didn’t know that the Brewnaster was a martial arts character doesn’t mean that no one else did.

It is a fact that he wasn't. Only in your own imagination the WC3 pandaren brewmaster unit was a monk.

Which isn’t what I asked for. I asked for RPG monk classes that use an assortment of brews to empower themselves. Not the Drunken martial arts, but your standard run of the mill Monk class. Much like the Windwalker Monk.

And I've given you exactly what you asked.

Nah, I have no interest in proving to you that the Pandawan Pint came from the Pandaren Brewmaster.

Because you can't. Because there is no way for you to do it. And also, want something to blow your mind? What's in common with those two names you so conveniently bolded out? Let me make it clear to you: Pandawan and Pandaren. Yeah, they're both based on the panda.

ANTHROPOMORPHIC CHARACTERS BASED ON THE REAL WORLD PANDA HAVING THE WORD 'PANDA' IN THEIR NAME!? GEE, I WONDER WHERE THEY GOT THE INSPIRATION FOR THAT NAME!! BECAUSE CLEARLY IT WASN'T FROM THE ANIMAL WHICH ITS NAME IS THAT EXACT WORD!! NO, CLEARLY IT WAS FROM A VIDEO GAME FROM A COMPANY THAT IS NOT EVEN RELATED TO THIS OTHER COMPANY!!!

This thread is about future classes, not having circular arguments about existing ones.

Not my fault you keep bringing up misinformation about existing classes.