If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Ielenia]

This sounds very feasible in my opinion. Through Sylvanas, it was always an easier task to justify why Necromancers would join the Horde, and more so difficult for the Alliance. Now that we've learned from Shadowlands and Maldraxxus that the source of necromancy and necromancers themselves can be a force for good, if Anduin retains some necromantic powers (plus the fact that he's a priest), it makes it easier for the Alliance to have a necromancer connection. Not to mention, we still haven't seen the consequences of our time in Shadowlands on Azeroth. I believe our time away has caused a severe imbalance in the forces of life and death and we could see a Cataclysm level of change in our present time.

Anduin could go the way of Bolvar, too: he's no longer associated with either the Alliance or the Horde, deciding to work for the goodness and balance on his own with the Cult of the Damned, if that indeed happens.

[TheRevenantHero]

Except it’s not my turret idea, it’s Blizzards idea. And no, it’s nowhere near as bad as the totem system was, nor is it anything like it.

Of course you think everything is awful, so your opinion here shouldn’t surprise anyone.

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It still amazes me that people are this dishonest. Let's look at the differences between the two systems (again).

1. In the totem system you had over a dozen different totems all performing a myriad of different functions. In the turret system you're only dropping a single type of turret.

In other words, in the old totem system you had Flametongue, Fire Nova, Searing, Strength of Earth, Stoneskin, Earthbind, Stoneclaw, Tremor, Windfury, Grace of Air, Grounding, Sentry, Healing, Mana Spring, etc. Totems. (And that's not even all of the totems!)

In the turret system you only have Rock-It turret.

2. In the totem system, you could only summon one type of totem at a time, and if you summoned two totems of the same element, the first one you summoned would disappear. The closest totem to a turret, Searing Totem couldn't be summoned at the same time as Magma or Fire Nova totem or vice versa. In addition, you could summon one Searing totem.

In the turret system, you can summon multiple Rock-it turrets. The ability has two charges, has a 10 second recharge time, and each turret lasts 15 seconds. Which means at base level, you can summon up to 3 turrets at a time, with your first one having about 5 seconds of life left when you summon your third.


3. In the totem system you really couldn't upgrade your totems. In earlier iterations of WoW there were talents that increased their range, and potency, but there were no active abilities that increased their power while playing. This led to totems simply not feeling very interactive. There was no ability for example to make Searing totem shoot faster, or for Grounding Totem to do anything else than to absorb a spell for you.

In the turret system, you would have active cooldowns that increase the power and ability of your turret. Just a few examples from HotS;

-Superior Schematics: Turrets hit 2 additional targets
-Engine Gunk: Turret hits slowed enemy movement speed
-Rock it Stock it: Caster is granted a shield based on number of active turrets
-Firin' Mah Lazors: Turrets copy Deth Lazor
-Self Destruct: Destroy your turret, damaging a nearby enemy and leaving behind resources.

So no, it's not a mechanical "reskin" of the totem system.

What the actual fuck are you even talking about? Blizzard has never created a spell that requires micromanaging what amounts to a slightly more complex engineering item. You're confusing WoW with Team Fortress 2.

[Teriz]

Oh, right. "Hey, tank? Bring the boss right onto the ranged group where my totems are! What? The boss has cleave mechanics that might one-shot us? Fuck that, being in range of my totems is more important!" That would go so well, indeed.

Yes, I'm serious. Because that's the whole point here: targets staying within range of the totems/turrets.

You say you're being serious yet use a massive straw man? Interesting.

And still remained mid- to bottom-tier even during and after Legion?

Mid to bottom tier you say?



Just fyi, the blue bars are the Shaman specs.

And I keep pointing out you would not need to drop Grounding Totem whatsoever unless there's a dire emergency because not only shamans have an interrupt spell, but also so does the tank and likely all the other DPS.

Or the caster is outside your range because Wind Shear was only 20-30 yards while typical spells were 35-40 yds depending on expansion....

I can if it's an interrupt-able spell. And also, let me remind you, that dropping Tremor Totem is not "severely gimping your performance". It's actually greatly improving your performance because now, instead of running around like a headless chicken in fear, you're immediately back to DPS'ing/healing thanks to your totem.

I never said it gimped your performance. I said that it would leave the party more vulnerable because in order to drop tremor you needed to lose the buffs of Stoneskin or SoE totems.

That wasn't what you said:
You specifically mentioned the tank, meaning you were in a group. If you are pulling mobs the tank did not pull, then regardless of what totem you use, you're already gimping your performance because you're showing that either: a) you don't know how to play shaman; or b) you don't know how to play in groups. You don't pull mobs. The tank does, unless they ask you to.

Re-read what I said. I said that if I needed to peel a mob off of me. Not a mob that the tank pulled. And yes, in perfect WoW world I'm sure that never happens to you, but in reality stuff like that happens quite a bit.

Bullshit. Stoneclaw would not have saved you in dungeon/raid content.

Yeah, a totem that can taunt a mob off of you so that the tank can pull it back would never save you ever!

And now you're moving the goalposts by claiming the buffs are passive, when you specifically mentioned they being cooldowns:

I never said that the buffs were ONLY active CDs. I said that there are passive buffs as well.

Irrelevant. You asked a question, and I answered it.

Yes, providing the most ludicrous scenario possible with someone purposely making bad decisions in order to make a point that you never had.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. My name is not "Teriz". You're the only one here who is being dishonest, using double-standards, denial, moving the goalposts, stating opinions as fact, etc.

Says the guy who thinks an expansion with a new Lich King, the Jailer of the Dead, Kel'thuzad, the birthplace of Necromancy and Blood Magic, etc. is an expansion that doesn't fit the necromancer class thematically.....

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t
im still waiting for him to explain the whole
UH dk can be a ranged spec and is the only melee that could be turned ranged
even though he was shown havoc has a majority of its abilities as ranged

With Clawed Shadows the only thing stopping the UH DK from being a fully ranged spec is that Festering Strike is melee. If that was a ranged ability, you could effectively do UH's rotation at range.

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What the actual fuck are you even talking about? Blizzard has never created a spell that requires micromanaging what amounts to a slightly more complex engineering item. You're confusing WoW with Team Fortress 2.

They did in HotS. If they bring it to WoW then it would be an original gameplay system.

Imagine that.

[Ielenia]

You say you're being serious yet use a massive straw man? Interesting.

It's not a strawman. Those were your literal words:

It doesn't matter? You can't be serious.

You can communicate with your allies and coordinate their movements. You can't do that with mobs.

I'm sorry, but the tank is not going to move the boss toward your totems/turrets since that's where the bulk of the DPS players are. They'll move the boss away and it's your duty to follow them, not the tanks follow you and your precious turrets/totems.

Mid to bottom tier you say?

https://i.imgur.com/s6Kyhtl.png

Just fyi, the blue bars are the Shaman specs.

Yes, mid- to bottom-tier:

Or the caster is outside your range because Wind Shear was only 20-30 yards while typical spells were 35-40 yds depending on expansion....

If you, as an enhancement shaman, is not within melee range of your target, that's your problem. And if you're elemental... what's the problem with taking 10 extra steps forward? Are you going to get out of range of your totems/turrets?

I never said it gimped your performance. I said that it would leave the party more vulnerable because in order to drop tremor you needed to lose the buffs of Stoneskin or SoE totems.

Those were literally your exact words:

And you would lose the benefit of one for the sake of the other, heavily gimping your performance. Hence why the system was eventually removed, it was grossly unfair to the Shaman class.

Re-read what I said. I said that if I needed to peel a mob off of me. Not a mob that the tank pulled. And yes, in perfect WoW world I'm sure that never happens to you, but in reality stuff like that happens quite a bit.

I'll repeat what I said: if you pull a mob, then stoneclaw is not going to save you. Any damage you do to it negates the taunt, so if you accidentally pulled with a stray Chain Lightning coil, then Stoneclaw won't do jack shit to the mob. I'll remind you:

First: if you managed to pull a mob off your tank, then your tank is terrible. Second: first comment on the Stoneclaw Totem page: "Worthy of note: This totem is only effective when pulling mobs or when another mob attacks you in the middle of combat. While it will grab the attention of fresh mobs, this totem will not be able to taunt them off of you if you've established significant threat with the mobs."

Yeah, a totem that can taunt a mob off of you so that the tank can pull it back would never save you ever!

Correct. Because if you pull a mob from the tank, you've already accrued significant threat with it.

I never said that the buffs were ONLY active CDs. I said that there are passive buffs as well.

Making them even more like totems. Bravo.

Yes, providing the most ludicrous scenario possible

As "someone" said:

in perfect WoW world I'm sure that never happens to you, but in reality stuff like that happens quite a bit.

with someone purposely making bad decisions in order to make a point that you never had.

Who said anything about "purposely making bad decisions"? Oh, wait, it's Teriz. Strawman and misrepresentations are par for the course.

Says the guy who thinks an expansion with a new Lich King, the Jailer of the Dead, Kel'thuzad, the birthplace of Necromancy and Blood Magic, etc. is an expansion that doesn't fit the necromancer class thematically.....

It doesn't, because, as explained dozens of times and ignored by you dozens of times, the expansion's theme is about the afterlife, not undeath.

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They did in HotS.

HotS is not WoW, Teriz. Stop being willfully dishonest for once in your life.

[Teriz]

It's not a strawman. Those were your literal words:
I'm sorry, but the tank is not going to move the boss toward your totems/turrets since that's where the bulk of the DPS players are. They'll move the boss away and it's your duty to follow them, not the tanks follow you and your precious turrets/totems.

It's a straw man because I simply said you can coordinate with your team. You're the one who took it to an extreme scenario that no one implied, and is patently absurd.

Yes, mid- to bottom-tier:

Average Antourus in there and it looks above average. A marked improvement from where Shaman were before Legion.

BTW, nice job putting Uldir in there when you were talking about Legion.

If you, as an enhancement shaman, is not within melee range of your target, that's your problem. And if you're elemental... what's the problem with taking 10 extra steps forward?

So instead of simply acknowledging that it's a bit ridiculous that a Shaman would have to give up a critical buff in order to stop an incoming spell, your response is "Too bad". This is why we can't have an honest discussion.

Those were literally your exact words:

And in typical fashion you misinterpret them. I wasn't talking about Stoneskin, Stoneclaw, or Strength of Earth. I was talking about situations like Grounding Totem ending your Windfury or Grace of Air buff.

I'll repeat what I said: if you pull a mob, then stoneclaw is not going to save you. Any damage you do to it negates the taunt, so if you accidentally pulled with a stray Chain Lightning coil, then Stoneclaw won't do jack shit to the mob. I'll remind you:

Of course you can pull a mob simply by walking by it, which Stoneclaw WOULD pull off of you, and exactly what I was talking about. Then when SC pulls the mob away from you, you can tell your tank to pull the mob. You know, coordinating with the group and all that....

Correct. Because if you pull a mob from the tank, you've already accrued significant threat with it.

Or once again, you accidentally walk past a mob or a mob was simply missed by the tank and guns for you. Once again, what I was talking about and not the scenarios you're bringing up.

Making them even more like totems. Bravo.

Given your responses in this exchange, I'm not surprised you can't tell the difference.

Who said anything about "purposely making bad decisions"? Oh, wait, it's Teriz. Strawman and misrepresentations are par for the course.

You gave an example of summon initiating a cooldown on the turret as an enemy was leaving the turret's range just to make a dumb point that has no relevance in reality. In all seriousness, why would you initiate a turret boost on an enemy moving out of range?

It doesn't, because, as explained dozens of times and ignored by you dozens of times, the expansion's theme is about the afterlife, not undeath.

The "afterlife" expansion that features Sylvanas (Undead), Kel'thuzad (Undead), Kal'theas (Dead), Uther (Dead), The Jailer of the Dead (Dead), a slew of Necromancers and undead creatures, and will soon feature a brand new Lich King who looks quite undead.

HotS is not WoW, Teriz. Stop being willfully dishonest for once in your life.

HotS is not WoW. Blizzard just happens to take HotS abilities and places them in WoW.

[Ielenia]

It's a straw man because I simply said you can coordinate with your team. You're the one who took it to an extreme scenario that no one implied, and is patently absurd.

And I pointed out that the tank is not going to conform to your requests. You're the one that should follow the tank, not the tank follow you, because they're the ones holding the boss' and mobs' attention. You move your totems/turrets, not the tanks move the mobs to your totems/turrets.

Average Antourus in there and it looks above average. A marked improvement from where Shaman were before Legion.

BTW, nice job putting Uldir in there when you were talking about Legion.

I never said I'm talking only about Legion. I said "since Legion", which includes BfA.

So instead of simply acknowledging that it's a bit ridiculous that a Shaman would have to give up a critical buff in order to stop an incoming spell, your response is "Too bad". This is why we can't have an honest discussion.

Except that was never my answer or my argument. I simply pointed out that shamans have an interrupt spell, therefore no need to use Grounding Totem. On top of that, your other party members all have interrupts too.

If anything, you are the one being dishonest here because you constantly ignore the fact that shamans actually have an interrupt spell, and other classes too.

And in typical fashion you misinterpret them. I wasn't talking about Stoneskin, Stoneclaw, or Strength of Earth. I was talking about situations like Grounding Totem ending your Windfury or Grace of Air buff.

And I've proven that your statement is pure bogus. Because your Windfury and Grace of Air totems buff will do jack shit to improve your performance while you're running around like a headless chicken in fear. Interrupting your windfury/grace of air buffs for a GCD to combat a fear that would put you out of commission for several GCDs is a boost of performance, not a "gimp in performance".

Of course you can pull a mob simply by walking by it, which Stoneclaw WOULD pull off of you, and exactly what I was talking about. Then when SC pulls the mob away from you, you can tell your tank to pull the mob. You know, coordinating with the group and all that....

If you body-pull a mob, you're further reinforcing the idea of how bad a player you are. It's your job to be aware of your surroundings. You just run to the tank and let his AoE tag the mob away from you.

Or once again, you accidentally walk past a mob or a mob was simply missed by the tank and guns for you.

Which doesn't happen unless you're willfully straying from the path you should be taking.

Given your responses in this exchange, I'm not surprised you can't tell the difference.

Not my fault you're repeatedly failed to show any mechanical difference between them.

You gave an example of summon initiating a cooldown on the turret as an enemy was leaving the turret's range just to make a dumb point that has no relevance in reality.

As "someone" said:

in perfect WoW world I'm sure that never happens to you, but in reality stuff like that happens quite a bit.

You don't know how the tank is going to react. It's perfectly possible that the moment you use one of your turret buffs the tank has to move away, perhaps a mob died and it's a Sanguine week. Or perhaps the tank has to move away to get rid of Necrotic stacks.

In all seriousness, why would you initiate a turret boost on an enemy moving out of range?

Obvious answer: because you didn't know that the mob would be moved out of range by the tank.

The "afterlife" expansion that features Sylvanas (Undead), Kel'thuzad (Undead), Kal'theas (Dead), Uther (Dead), The Jailer of the Dead (Dead), a slew of Necromancers and undead creatures, and will soon feature a brand new Lich King who looks quite undead.

Yes, afterlife expansion, where we see the afterlife for the creatures of nature (Ardenweald), the afterlife for those who live for war and glory (Maldraxxus), the afterlife for those who seek and need penitence (Revendreth), the afterlife for the noble, selfless ones (Bastion) and hell for the unrepentant souls (Maw).

HotS is not WoW.

I'm glad we agree in something.

[Teriz]

And I pointed out that the tank is not going to conform to your requests. You're the one that should follow the tank, not the tank follow you, because they're the ones holding the boss' and mobs' attention. You move your totems/turrets, not the tanks move the mobs to your totems/turrets.

That was never the point. That was just you straw-manning. The POINT is that you can coordinate with a group, you can't coordinate with a mob.

Except that was never my answer or my argument. I simply pointed out that shamans have an interrupt spell, therefore no need to use Grounding Totem. On top of that, [B]your other party members all have interrupts too.

If anything, you are the one being dishonest here because you constantly ignore the fact that shamans actually have an interrupt spell, and other classes too.

And you brought up the interrupt to ignore the fact that Grounding Totem ends your critical buffs when you cast it. The totems are the point of this conversation.

And I've proven that your statement is pure bogus. Because your Windfury and Grace of Air totems buff will do jack shit to improve your performance while you're running around like a headless chicken in fear. Interrupting your windfury/grace of air buffs for a GCD to combat a fear that would put you out of commission for several GCDs is a boost of performance, not a "gimp in performance".

Does Windfury Totem and Grace of Air improve your performance, yes or no?

If you body-pull a mob, you're further reinforcing the idea of how bad a player you are. It's your job to be aware of your surroundings. You just run to the tank and let his AoE tag the mob away from you.

Would StoneClaw Totem peel a mob off of you if you accidentally pull it by walking past it, yes or no?

Not my fault you're repeatedly failed to show any mechanical difference between them.

You're willfully ignoring the differences.

[Ielenia]

That was never the point. That was just you straw-manning. The POINT is that you can coordinate with a group, you can't coordinate with a mob.

You not understanding (whether unintentionally or willfully) what I'm writing is not me strawmanning. No amount of coordination will cover random events.

And you brought up the interrupt to ignore the fact that Grounding Totem ends your critical buffs when you cast it. The totems are the point of this conversation.

I brought the interrupt spells to show that you don't need to drop grounding totem every time a spell is being cast. In fact, you rarely use it.

Does Windfury Totem and Grace of Air improve your performance, yes or no?

Do Windfury Totem and Grace of Air Totem improve your performance while you're dead, yes or no? Do Strength of Earth improve your performance while you're running around in fear, yes or no?

Would StoneClaw Totem peel a mob off of you if you accidentally pull it by walking past it, yes or no?

It begs the question as to why would you run near another group while still fighting another. And then why drop Stoneclaw Totem when you can just run to the tank and you can avoid having to fix your mistake by doing another mistake.

You're willfully ignoring the differences.

Me explaining why your differences are either non-existent or negligible is not me ignoring them.

[Teriz]

You not understanding (whether unintentionally or willfully) what I'm writing is not me strawmanning. No amount of coordination will cover random events.

So teams are incapable of coordinating with each other because the Tank has to pull the boss in a bad direction?

I brought the interrupt spells to show that you don't need to drop grounding totem every time a spell is being cast. In fact, you rarely use it.

Which was completely irrelevant to the fact that Grounding Totem takes away vital buffs when casted. And yes there are times when you have to use grounding totem instead of Wind Shear.

Do Windfury Totem and Grace of Air Totem improve your performance while you're dead, yes or no? Do Strength of Earth improve your performance while you're running around in fear, yes or no?

And this is the dishonesty I'm talking about. You can't even answer a simple yes or no question.

It begs the question as to why would you run near another group while still fighting another. And then why drop Stoneclaw Totem when you can just run to the tank and you can avoid having to fix your mistake by doing another mistake.

Because mistakes happen when you're in groups.

Me explaining why your differences are either non-existent or negligible is not me ignoring them.

It still amazes me that people are this dishonest. Let's look at the differences between the two systems (again).

1. In the totem system you had over a dozen different totems all performing a myriad of different functions. In the turret system you're only dropping a single type of turret.

In other words, in the old totem system you had Flametongue, Fire Nova, Searing, Strength of Earth, Stoneskin, Earthbind, Stoneclaw, Tremor, Windfury, Grace of Air, Grounding, Sentry, Healing, Mana Spring, etc. Totems. (And that's not even all of the totems!)

In the turret system you only have Rock-It turret.

2. In the totem system, you could only summon one type of totem at a time, and if you summoned two totems of the same element, the first one you summoned would disappear. The closest totem to a turret, Searing Totem couldn't be summoned at the same time as Magma or Fire Nova totem or vice versa. In addition, you could summon one Searing totem.

In the turret system, you can summon multiple Rock-it turrets. The ability has two charges, has a 10 second recharge time, and each turret lasts 15 seconds. Which means at base level, you can summon up to 3 turrets at a time, with your first one having about 5 seconds of life left when you summon your third.


3. In the totem system you really couldn't upgrade your totems. In earlier iterations of WoW there were talents that increased their range, and potency, but there were no active abilities that increased their power while playing. This led to totems simply not feeling very interactive. There was no ability for example to make Searing totem shoot faster, or for Grounding Totem to do anything else than to absorb a spell for you.

In the turret system, you would have active cooldowns that increase the power and ability of your turret. Just a few examples from HotS;

-Superior Schematics: Turrets hit 2 additional targets
-Engine Gunk: Turret hits slowed enemy movement speed
-Rock it Stock it: Caster is granted a shield based on number of active turrets
-Firin' Mah Lazors: Turrets copy Deth Lazor
-Self Destruct: Destroy your turret, damaging a nearby enemy and leaving behind resources.

So no, it's not a mechanical "reskin" of the totem system.

[Ielenia]

So teams are incapable of coordinating with each other because the Tank has to pull the boss in a bad direction?

And what would that do? Either way you'll still have to reposition your totems/turrets.

Which was completely irrelevant to the fact that Grounding Totem takes away vital buffs when casted. And yes there are times when you have to use grounding totem instead of Wind Shear.

It's actually very relevant because the fact you have an interrupt spell means Grounding Totem would rarely be used to interrupt a spell.

And this is the dishonesty I'm talking about. You can't even answer a simple yes or no question.

It's not dishonesty. I just know how you operate. You'd just ignore my entire reply and focus on just the part that interests you. You claimed that dropping Tremor Totem is "gimping your performance" because it removes the Strength of Earth or Stonekin buffs from you and your party:

And you would lose the benefit of one for the sake of the other, heavily gimping your performance.

But guess what? Strength of Earth and Stoneskin totems do jack shit for you if you're feared. So dropping Tremor Totem to cancel the fear improves your performance. Also, newsflash, Teriz: "performance" is not measured solely by your DPS/HPS numbers. "Doing mechanics" also counts for a lot! And many raid leaders would tell you that it's more important than DPS meters.

Because mistakes happen when you're in groups.

Except when said mistakes are used against your examples, right? Then they're "extremes" and "never happen" or "made up", right?

It still amazes me that people are this dishonest. Let's look at the differences between the two systems (again).

Again, I'm not you, Teriz. I don't use dishonesty here. You do.

1. In the totem system you had over a dozen different totems all performing a myriad of different functions. In the turret system you're only dropping a single type of turret.

In other words, in the old totem system you had Flametongue, Fire Nova, Searing, Strength of Earth, Stoneskin, Earthbind, Stoneclaw, Tremor, Windfury, Grace of Air, Grounding, Sentry, Healing, Mana Spring, etc. Totems. (And that's not even all of the totems!)

In the turret system you only have Rock-It turret.

Dropping one or four stationary minions makes no difference. And you don't have "only one". You have two. Didn't you say your turret would have 2 charges? And that you could drop more than one of the same type?

2. In the totem system, you could only summon one type of totem at a time, and if you summoned two totems of the same element, the first one you summoned would disappear. The closest totem to a turret, Searing Totem couldn't be summoned at the same time as Magma or Fire Nova totem or vice versa. In addition, you could summon one Searing totem.

In the turret system, you can summon multiple Rock-it turrets. The ability has two charges, has a 10 second recharge time, and each turret lasts 15 seconds. Which means at base level, you can summon up to 3 turrets at a time, with your first one having about 5 seconds of life left when you summon your third.

This baffles me because you call the shaman's totem management mechanic a "failure" and yet you now want the exact same management mechanic again, only in "fast-forward" because you have to manage your stationary minions every 10 seconds instead of every miniute-ish. If managing totems is so bad, why do you think micro-managing turrets would be any better?

3. In the totem system you really couldn't upgrade your totems. In earlier iterations of WoW there were talents that increased their range, and potency, but there were no active abilities that increased their power while playing. This led to totems simply not feeling very interactive. There was no ability for example to make Searing totem shoot faster, or for Grounding Totem to do anything else than to absorb a spell for you.

In the turret system, you would have active cooldowns that increase the power and ability of your turret. Just a few examples from HotS;

-Superior Schematics: Turrets hit 2 additional targets
-Engine Gunk: Turret hits slowed enemy movement speed
-Rock it Stock it: Caster is granted a shield based on number of active turrets
-Firin' Mah Lazors: Turrets copy Deth Lazor
-Self Destruct: Destroy your turret, damaging a nearby enemy and leaving behind resources.

So no, it's not a mechanical "reskin" of the totem system.

But it is. How is it any different than the totem system? Think about it a little: can a turret receive all of those "enhancements" at the same time? If not, how is that any different than the shaman having to decide which totem to drop? And do all of your totems receive those buffs when you trigger the ability, or do you have to actively select which turret get it? If the former, that's again no different than the shaman dropping another totem. If the latter, then it's a downside because you have to actively select your turret and cast the spell.

[Teriz]

Again, I'm not you, Teriz. I don't use dishonesty here. You do.


Dropping one or four stationary minions makes no difference. And you don't have "only one". You have two. Didn't you say your turret would have 2 charges? And that you could drop more than one of the same type?

Or they could have an upgrade ability that turns them into gunbots for a brief duration, or a talent which makes it permanent. That's the benefit of a technology theme.

This baffles me because you call the shaman's totem management mechanic a "failure" and yet you now want the exact same management mechanic again, only in "fast-forward" because you have to manage your stationary minions every 10 seconds instead of every miniute-ish. If managing totems is so bad, why do you think micro-managing turrets would be any better?

They last for 15 seconds, and their duration can be extended via passives.

But it is. How is it any different than the totem system? Think about it a little: can a turret receive all of those "enhancements" at the same time? If not, how is that any different than the shaman having to decide which totem to drop? And do all of your totems receive those buffs when you trigger the ability, or do you have to actively select which turret get it? If the former, that's again no different than the shaman dropping another totem. If the latter, then it's a downside because you have to actively select your turret and cast the spell.

These questions have already been answered.

[TigTone]

After we free Anduin from the jailer influence he no longer has access to the light or the void.

So he becomes the first Domination Knight.
And teaches a new generation to protect Azeroth from future threats.

1)spec jailer domination magic (tank?)

2)spec domination/fire magic Knight two hand dps

That’s it.

[Ielenia]

Or they could have an upgrade ability that turns them into gunbots for a brief duration, or a talent which makes it permanent. That's the benefit of a technology theme.

And now you're literally making stuff up, considering that ability doesn't even exist in HotS.

They last for 15 seconds, and their duration can be extended via passives.

There is a difference between "can" and "could". And even if I granted you there, that would still be more micro-managing than what the shaman because even if it doubled their duration, it would still be 30 seconds versus 1 minute.

These questions have already been answered.

Yes. I literally just copy-pasted my answers to show that I have addressed what you claim I ignored.

[Revamp Man]

With Clawed Shadows the only thing stopping the UH DK from being a fully ranged spec is that Festering Strike is melee. If that was a ranged ability, you could effectively do UH's rotation at range.

and you said that is the only spec that does that

DH has 2 buttons (only 1 if you talent right) that requires melee

[Teriz]

and you said that is the only spec that does that

DH has 2 buttons (only 1 if you talent right) that requires melee

You mean via Demon Blades which replaces Demon's Bite?

You still have to perform auto attacks to generate fury. In the case of DKs, Clawing Shadows replaces Scourge Strike, so all you really need is a ranged method to generate runic power. Honestly if you move Clawing Shadows to another talent tier, you could potentially pull it off with Infected Claws and Pestilence.

But no, we're not talking about the same thing here.

[Letdown]

I know I will forever be in an extreme minority here, but I would really love to see a dedicated buffer/debuffer class. I'm going to say "Bard," but the traditional "Bard" theme/fantasy isn't really what I care about, it's the gameplay traditionally attached to it that I'm after. I don't really care about the wrapper on it, but I think we're at a point that adding that role in wouldn't overly scuff the game, as we more-or-less have it in the game already distributed across the 12 classes, which makes building raid compositions miserable.

-Have to bring at least 1 warrior for rally/battle cry
-Have to bring at least 1 DH for Chaos Brand
-Have to bring at least 1 monk for Mystic Touch
-Have to bring at least 1 Priest for Fort + PI
-Have to bring at least 1 mage for Int
-Have to bring at least 1 lock for Rocks
-Have to bring at least 1 druid for roar
-Have to bring at least 1 paladin for Devo
-Have to bring at least 1 DK for AMZ
-Have to bring rsham for slink if it's ever good (APT for prog comes up as well); if Arms warrior is good, Enh becomes necessary for Windfury

So basically, you have at least 11 locked slots for raid -- this gets even messier considering some of these things (such as AMZ) have value for bringing multiple, which then crowds out already competitive slots. Factor in fight specific utility (specific damage profiles, immunities, etc.), "bring the player" is all but dead (Yes I get this is irrelevant for people that don't mythic raid and/or prog much later in the tier).

My point is if they're already willing to lock that many slots, just give us Bard. Parsing means nothing already because of PI, it'll mean even more nothing in 9.0.5 when you then have to factor in Night Fae priests keeping Mages at 30s combusts, etc. Just rip the bandaid off, it'd offer them more design space for the classes and then give them more room to overhaul specs and what not in the future, including 4th specs and fixing Survival.

[Nightstar313313]

I really wish they would implement a dragon race. Only a few MMOs have done that before, and it would be such a unique and cool feature. It could even be a short transformation-form/flight form or similar.

I've seen some of the arguments against this is that dragons are so powerful, it wouldn't make sense for them to be "weak" players etc. But why then does it makes sense that players use dragons as mounts and pets? This game is already filled with flying brains with tentacles, all kinds of weird animals, races etc. So I have a really hard time seeing how a dragon race would be so immersion/lore breaking.

[Kaver]

If they add more melee specs to the game they are insane.

[Ielenia]

You mean via Demon Blades which replaces Demon's Bite?

You still have to perform auto attacks to generate fury. In the case of DKs, Clawing Shadows replaces Scourge Strike, so all you really need is a ranged method to generate runic power. Honestly if you move Clawing Shadows to another talent tier, you could potentially pull it off with Infected Claws and Pestilence.

But no, we're not talking about the same thing here.

You do know that Apocalypse is also a melee ability, right? Which incidentally is what causes the bulk of the Unholy death knight's damage, too.

[Imperator4321]

In the turret system, you would have active cooldowns that increase the power and ability of your turret. Just a few examples from HotS;

-Superior Schematics: Turrets hit 2 additional targets
-Engine Gunk: Turret hits slowed enemy movement speed
-Rock it Stock it: Caster is granted a shield based on number of active turrets
-Firin' Mah Lazors: Turrets copy Deth Lazor
-Self Destruct: Destroy your turret, damaging a nearby enemy and leaving behind resources.

Or they could have an upgrade ability that turns them into gunbots for a brief duration, or a talent which makes it permanent. That's the benefit of a technology theme.

Wasn't Demonology Warlock in Legion heavily critized because it's gameplay was entirely centered around buffing shitty imps and dreadstalkers, one of the reasons it was reworked again to be about Demonbolts/Demonic Tyrant, if the gameplay that a Tinker class has is "place turrets and buff them" then runs into the same problem, players (especially if your a damage dealer) want your spells to be impactful having multiple abilities and cooldowns dedicated to buffing a turret is terrible gameplay.

Saying that Gazlowe did it in HoTS isn't a reason, HotS is an entirely different genre of game, it's 20-30 minute matches where you level up and can select talents to improve your build, Gazlowes gameplay is that way because of the genre his game is in, hes a Zoner/Sieger, that doesn't exist in WoW and you can't translate the HoTS talent system into an MMO class/spec rotation, why would these talents/abilities in HoTS that affect turrets be cooldowns or part of your rotation when they could instead be part of the Talent system we already have in WoW i.e you would have a talent that gives your turrets cleave, or extra cc, or better single target damage. Why would I have an ability that gives my (temporary) turret cleave (meaning as soon as they expire i need to reapply them), it's a gameplay style that A: doesn't fit WoW and B: has been shown to not produce fun gameplay (see demonology).

Zoner/Turret playstyle is a gameplay style that doesn't work well in anything outside RTS, MOBA or Hero Shooter genre, even that last one is dubious (see Torbjorn in Overwatch who's gameplay originally mostly revolved around a turret he upgraded, turns out having all your damage be done by an AI turret doesn't create an enjoyable gameplay style)

Even other MMO's that feature engineer classes don't put nearly the same degree of significance your placing on Turrets, Guild Wars 2's Engineer has turret skills, they're varied (healing, flamethrower, net, rockets) but they're more valuable for the overcharge skill that happens when they're deployed and the "blast finishers" that destroy them rather than relying on the turrets themselves, FFXIV's Machinist has the Rook Autoturret which is a summon on a resource cost but that gets replaced by the Automaton Queen.