1. #5201
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes, it’s about dominating minds.
    Where does it say that? I'll tell you where: nowhere. Because Blizzard has revealed nothing about that type of magic other than the name, and that it was used to bind the Jailer to the Maw, or something to that effect.

    Something priests already do.
    Freezing and slowing was something mages already did. But we got Frost death knights anyways, didn't we? Burning people with fire was something that mages already did, but that did not stop destruction warlocks. Healing with the Light was something paladins already did, but that did not stop holy priests.

    "X cannot exist because Y already does that" is a meaningless argument to make, not only because it's debunked by the classes we have, but also because it's needlessly restrictive.

    Dominating minds isn’t robust enough to be a class concept.
    Thankfully "domination magic" has not been stated to be only that, so far. As I said numerous times: we know nothing about that type of magic other than its name and the fact it was used against the Jailer.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  2. #5202
    Blizzard can barely balance the current roster, what makes ye think they can add one more?

  3. #5203
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I have a feeling they'd tie it in directly to the helm of domination.

    Even when Sylvanas was raised, her will would have been subject to Ner'zhul's influence like the rest of the scourge, and only broke free of that when Ner'zhul was weakend by Illidan's shenanigans.
    Yeah i think it's just them trying to fit old lore into the new/rebooted lore (i.e pretty much all the lore since legion), same reason Dreadlords are now actually servants of Denathrius/Death instead of purely being Demons, Jailor was behind the creation of the Lich King and not Kil'jaeden. Sorta like how turned the Old Gods from random Cthuloid monsters into creations of the Void Lords, Arcane, Necromancy and Fel into seperate (and in some cases opposing forces) instead of the Arcane basically being a gateway drug into Fel & Necromancy.

    I get the feeling that "Domination magic" will be Maw-related death magic that suppress the free-will of those bound to it while the victim still retains awareness/personality (like Sylvanas when she was under the Lich Kings control or now seemingly Anduin now under the Jailor)

  4. #5204
    I'd love a necromancer class, or a plate wearing mage class, aka a battle mage which is either tank or ranged dps, I would utterly loathe a tinker class for so many reasons I would bore myself listing them.

    if a new class did come I would want two things, one for it to be a ranged class primarily, the added classes have been all melee unless I a wrong somewhere, and not quite connected but with such massive class and spec bloat, for many existing classes to be trimmed specwise, like all pure dps classes should in my unpopular opinion have only 2 varients at most or even better, just a more highly customiseable sing spec, so if you wanted to be say a beast master or a MM hunter you pick that talent at level x and then follow that path.

    I just feel the existing classes are too bloated with useless specs.

  5. #5205
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    I get the feeling that "Domination magic" will be Maw-related death magic that suppress the free-will of those bound to it while the victim still retains awareness/personality (like Sylvanas when she was under the Lich Kings control or now seemingly Anduin now under the Jailor)
    It seems like a very specific thing they want to push to tell Anduin's story. They are really honing in on the Jailer being the core big bad behind all these things instead if just 'the burnig legion'.

    I'm still unsure how this all fits in with Kil'jaeden, but I'm guessing the Dreadlords 'fooling' him by presenting a Lich King is what's going on? Seems dubious, but I guess most retcons are.

    We will see if this Domination magic will have a greater role in the future after this expansion. I hope its not just going to be a one-and-done plot device. They've done well so far completely not explaining Calia's whole undeath situation, even in the face if Shadowlands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  6. #5206
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It seems like a very specific thing they want to push to tell Anduin's story. They are really honing in on the Jailer being the core big bad behind all these things instead if just 'the burnig legion'.

    I'm still unsure how this all fits in with Kil'jaeden, but I'm guessing the Dreadlords 'fooling' him by presenting a Lich King is what's going on? Seems dubious, but I guess most retcons are.
    It's not too egregious (as far as blizzard retcons go) since Dreadlords were established as master-manipulators (although so was Kil'jaeden) and being the demons who were assisting the Lich King (so i guess they were reporting to the Jailor/Denathrius as well as Kil'jaeden)

    From what i can guess the chain of events is:
    1. Denathrius creates the Dreadlords
    2. Dreadlords infilrate various cosmic forces (disorder and void seem to be the main ones)
    3. Jailor has the runecarver make the Helm of Domination & Frostmourne
    4. Dreadlords recieve the helm & blade and give it to Kil'jaeden who fashions Ner'zul into the lich king with it
    5. Ner'zul is now the lich king and is being influenced by the Jailor (perhaps hes the one who had Ner'zul rebel?)
    6. Ner'zul, Arthas and Bolvar were apparently failures though (maybe domination magic has limits guess it's to explain why he didn't just shatter the veil before)

    Theres also other stuff like Mueh'zala making a deal for Odyn's eye which led to Odyn creating the Val'kyr which led to Helya rebelling against Odyn and joining the Jailor which presumably created the mawsworn Kyrian and scourge Val'kyr, which led to Sylvanas' pact with the Jailor. (along with Mueh'zala being the one who told Vol'jin to make Sylvanas warchief)

    Basically a massive amount of retcons means The Jailor, Mueh'zala and Denathrius are master schemers who can predict the actions of and manipulate god and demi-god tier characters into following a very specific series of events such as odyn created the Val'kyr because he wanted servants who could steal Vrykul from death because he didn't trust the Dragon Aspects or the Dreadlords manipulating Kil'jaden/Sargeras

    Although that makes Varimathras kinda of funny in hindsight, hes a double agent working for Denathrius, pretending to work for the legion, who betrays the legion & denathrius to work for Sylvanas, who then goes back to working for the Legion, fails and then gets tortured by the Legion, while Sylvanas ends up working for the Jailor after his betrayal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    We will see if this Domination magic will have a greater role in the future after this expansion. I hope its not just going to be a one-and-done plot device. They've done well so far completely not explaining Calia's whole undeath situation, even in the face if Shadowlands.
    Honestly I get the feeling it will go the way of Azerite or the Vindicaar, a story element forgotten because it's no longer relevant to the one patch/expansion it's used in despite it's existence having setting or story changing properties (like azerite being a power source or the Vindicaar being alliance owned now).

    Only thing i can see Mawsworn Anduin being used for is an excuse to keep Turalyon in power for when a Light vs Void Expansion comes around.
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-02-25 at 11:39 PM.

  7. #5207
    Death Knight Anduin will become the new Forsaken faction leader, I bet my left nut.

  8. #5208
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Death Knight Anduin will become the new Forsaken faction leader, I bet my left nut.
    TBH I want plot developmented that are A: extremely dumb B: cause the most amount of drama on all sides

    So I want Death Knight Anduin and Lightforged Undead Calia to become the the Rulers of new Lordaeron

    Not only is the former high king of the alliance now a horde leader, the forsaken are now in control of two light aligned humans, Forsaken are ruled by an ersatz copy of Arthas and his actual sister, Genn is denied his surogate son, the Alliance is left in control of a Light-Zealot and the Alliance is denied Lordaeron.

    (I just checked how old Calia is, didn't know she was almost 40... although i suppose it wouldn't really matter for undead)
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-02-26 at 12:10 AM.

  9. #5209
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    TBH I want plot developmented that are A: extremely dumb B: cause the most amount of drama on all sides

    So I want Death Knight Anduin to marry Lightforged Undead Calia and together they become the the King and Queen of new Lordaeron

    Not only is the former high king of the alliance now a horde leader, the forsaken are now in control of two light aligned humans, but Calia is also married to an ersatz copy of her Brother, Genn is denied his surogate son, the Alliance is left in control of a Light-Zealot and the Alliance is denied Lordaeron.
    Isn't it beautiful? And it works perfectly because Anduin is already more sympathetic to the Forsaken than the Forsaken are to themselves. Plus he gets to hang out with his BFF Baine whenever he wants.

  10. #5210
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    TBH I want plot developmented that are A: extremely dumb B: cause the most amount of drama on all sides

    So I want Death Knight Anduin and Lightforged Undead Calia to become the the Rulers of new Lordaeron
    Throw in Wrathion for some 3-way action. Deathwing was originally poised to marry Calia, only fitting that Wrathion take the place and insert himself between Anduin and Calia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  11. #5211
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Isn't "domination magic" just another term for what Priests do?

    Mind Soothe, Mind Control, Mind Blast, Mind Vision, Dominate Mind, Mind Sear, Mind Flay, Mind Trauma, Mindbender, etc.

    All in the Priest class. What more could you do with it?
    well based on the LK and jailer and sylvanas...create badass chains
    dominate souls
    literally anything the designers want because luckily for all of us they arent limited by what some randoms on a forum believe

  12. #5212
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You mean their abilities being covered like Metamorphosis being forced out of the Warlock class before Demon Hunters could enter the game as a class?

    Indeed Blizzard did bring Demon Hunters into the game, after nuking the demonology spec in 6.2, removing a well liked mechanic from an existing class, creating bitterness among warlock players, and creating a shallow 2-spec class for our troubles.

    Let’s hope they don’t do it again with a Necromancer class.
    Yeah, I didn't like how they did that either but the point is that they will do it if they want to. You claim to have evidence that it won't happen but all you present is an opinion that is debunked by Blizzard's past actions.

  13. #5213
    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    Yeah, I didn't like how they did that either but the point is that they will do it if they want to. You claim to have evidence that it won't happen but all you present is an opinion that is debunked by Blizzard's past actions.
    Stop using logic

    It’s ok it’s around this time he stops responding and moves onto a different argument

  14. #5214
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    Yeah, I didn't like how they did that either but the point is that they will do it if they want to. You claim to have evidence that it won't happen but all you present is an opinion that is debunked by Blizzard's past actions.
    The Evidence:

    1. Death Knights have the Necromancer’s abilities from WC3 and general Necromancer abilities.

    2. Blizzard states that the Necromancer concept was used in the creation of the DK class.

    3. Blizzard has created melee Necromancers in other games, so range is not a consideration.

    4. Blizzard’s ultimate guide defines Necromancy rather thoroughly, and DKs cover it completely.

    5. No new Necromancer class in Shadowlands, which is an expansion that is about death and undeath concepts.

  15. #5215
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The Evidence:

    1. Death Knights have the Necromancer’s abilities from WC3 and general Necromancer abilities.

    2. Blizzard states that the Necromancer concept was used in the creation of the DK class.

    3. Blizzard has created melee Necromancers in other games, so range is not a consideration.

    4. Blizzard’s ultimate guide defines Necromancy rather thoroughly, and DKs cover it completely.

    5. No new Necromancer class in Shadowlands, which is an expansion that is about death and undeath concepts.
    1. warlocks had a DH ability from WC3 and it got replaced and the game got made

    2. Blizzard goes back and forth on alot of what they talk about, remember how they originally had an april fools joke about pandaren and then after the reception decided to go ahead and bring them in??

    3. Blizzard also created a dual weilding ranger named a demon hunter sooooo

    4. link it because AFAIK we also have 2 classes that cover holy magic completely

    5. No DH class in TBC which was about demons and the burning legion

  16. #5216
    Teriz always demolish other class concept because he fears that if his precious Tinker isn't the next class, it'll never be added to the game !

  17. #5217
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    1. warlocks had a DH ability from WC3 and it got replaced and the game got made

    2. Blizzard goes back and forth on alot of what they talk about, remember how they originally had an april fools joke about pandaren and then after the reception decided to go ahead and bring them in??

    3. Blizzard also created a dual weilding ranger named a demon hunter sooooo

    4. link it because AFAIK we also have 2 classes that cover holy magic completely

    5. No DH class in TBC which was about demons and the burning legion
    warlocks lost 1 spell and had a spec reworked.

    necromancer's play style(based on what people want) would over lap with 2 warlock specs and 1 dk spec.
    the report systems sucks and the mods are bias.

  18. #5218
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    1. Death Knights have the Necromancer’s abilities from WC3 and general Necromancer abilities.
    Warlocks had the demon hunter's abilities from WC3 and priests and rogues had the general demon hunter abilities.

    2. Blizzard states that the Necromancer concept was used in the creation of the DK class.
    False. Blizzard said that the ideas surrounding the concept were used in the creation of the death knight class, not that they merged the two concepts into one.

    3. Blizzard has created melee Necromancers in other games, so range is not a consideration.
    Other games are not WoW. That's like saying Blizzard views demon hunters as hand crossbow-wielding ranged characters, because that's how they were portrayed in Diablo 3 and later in Heroes of the Storm.

    4. Blizzard’s ultimate guide defines Necromancy rather thoroughly,
    It does not. Shadowlands itself has shown that through the expansion of necromancy.

    5. No new Necromancer class in Shadowlands, which is an expansion that is about death and undeath concepts.
    That is demonstrably false. This is an expansion the afterlife's side of death. Not undeath.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    necromancer's play style(based on what people want) would over lap with 2 warlock specs and 1 dk spec.
    Except it would only overlap if you think the necromancer class would play exactly like those specs. Which it would not. Your assertion is like saying the death knight's frost spec would overlap (i.e. play the exact same) as the mage's frost spec, and that its unholy spec would overlap (i.e. play the same) as the warlock's demonology spec.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  19. #5219
    i dont hate Necromancer. i think they would be fun to play and have.

    i just dont think they can be introduce anymore without heavy changes.
    the report systems sucks and the mods are bias.

  20. #5220
    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    i dont hate Necromancer. i think they would be fun to play and have.

    i just dont think they can be introduce anymore without heavy changes.
    They’ve shown they will do it

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