1. #5221
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    They’ve shown they will do it
    removing 1 spell and reworking 1 class is a lot different than reworking 2 specs from locks and 1 DK.
    the report systems sucks and the mods are bias.

  2. #5222
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    removing 1 spell and reworking 1 class is a lot different than reworking 2 specs from locks and 1 DK.
    Except there is absolutely no need whatsoever to rework "two warlocks specs and one death knight" at all to bring a necromancer class into the game.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2021-02-27 at 06:09 AM.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  3. #5223
    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    removing 1 spell and reworking 1 class is a lot different than reworking 2 specs from locks and 1 DK.
    What two specs???

    We know nothing of how it might play so instead of assuming overlap try to remember there’s dozens of people including the ones that redesign classes every expansion that work on this instead of 2-5 random players on a fan forum

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except there is absolutely no need whatsoever to rework "two warlocks specs and one death knight" at all to bring a necromancer class into the glass.

    Are they thinking of old demo and....I’m not even sure lol and why is unholy DK the only spec allowed to summon dead when we have 2 holy classes and 2 nature damage focused specs
    Also if a warrior can create a magic barrier I think a necromancer is an unlimited potential class in WoW

  4. #5224
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeenith View Post
    Teriz always demolish other class concept because he fears that if his precious Tinker isn't the next class, it'll never be added to the game !
    Actually I’d be totally fine with a dragon class if it’s based on Alexstraza, Chromie, Kalecgos, and Wrathion. Utilizing Alexstraza and Chromie’s play style from HotS.

    Such a class would be a perfect fit for a dragon isles expansion.

  5. #5225
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually I’d be totally fine with a dragon class if it’s based on Alexstraza, Chromie, Kalecgos, and Wrathion. Utilizing Alexstraza and Chromie’s play style from HotS.

    Such a class would be a perfect fit for a dragon isles expansion.
    yeah, but there is 5 aspect and unless you have a black wing type tank spec, a green wing type heal spec, and a dps spec with the 1st line of talent making you choose one the 3 others wings for specific bonus, I really don't think they'll ever do a class with more than 3 spec

    I know many people spit on the idea, but a dragon sworn being someone lent power by a dragon, it does look like "temporary borrowed power of the Xpac" aka the next "covenant like" abilities...

    I'd rather a new healing class than a tank one, and Dragon Knight would have a tank spec for sure but a healing one it's more uncertain, could be a mail class since the game desperately need to balance their poor numbers a bit, and armors made from dragon scales are mails usually.

  6. #5226
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    1. warlocks had a DH ability from WC3 and it got replaced and the game got made
    Warlocks got that ability in WotLK. Death Knights ALWAYS had Necromancer abilities. Even in WC3.

    2. Blizzard goes back and forth on alot of what they talk about, remember how they originally had an april fools joke about pandaren and then after the reception decided to go ahead and bring them in??
    Which isn’t the same situation as what we’re talking about here. Necromancy being an integral part of the DK class’ design is a purposeful design decision by Blizzard. A design decision they reinforced in Shadowlands by giving DKs additional Necromancer-style abilities.

    3. Blizzard also created a dual weilding ranger named a demon hunter sooooo
    So the point is that Blizzard doesn’t view ranged, frail spell-casting as essential to the Necromancer concept. To Blizzard the Necromancer can be a tough melee fighter as well.

    4. link it because AFAIK we also have 2 classes that cover holy magic completely

    5. No DH class in TBC which was about demons and the burning legion
    Yes, that was the first demonic expansion. We got Demon Hunters in the second demonic expansion. The first death expansion gave us DKs.

    The second death expansion gave us DKs with expanded lore and more Necromancer-style abilities.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeenith View Post
    yeah, but there is 5 aspect and unless you have a black wing type tank spec, a green wing type heal spec, and a dps spec with the 1st line of talent making you choose one the 3 others wings for specific bonus, I really don't think they'll ever do a class with more than 3 spec

    I know many people spit on the idea, but a dragon sworn being someone lent power by a dragon, it does look like "temporary borrowed power of the Xpac" aka the next "covenant like" abilities...

    I'd rather a new healing class than a tank one, and Dragon Knight would have a tank spec for sure but a healing one it's more uncertain, could be a mail class since the game desperately need to balance their poor numbers a bit, and armors made from dragon scales are mails usually.
    It doesn’t need to be 5 specs. If the go the route of using Chromatic drakes, it could be 3 specs with each spec merging 2 flights into one. For example, a spec that merged the abilities of the blue and bronze dragon flight, a spec that merges the powers of the red and green dragon flight, and a twilight dragon flight spec that takes the place of black.

    In addition, offshoots like Netherstorm and Twilight could be utilized in the place of the traditional 5 flights, or Blizzard could simply make new ones. For example, maybe you’re ONLY a chromatic drake, or ONLY one of the Twilight drakes freed of corruption by Wrathion and you have three specs all revolving around solely the powers of a twilight dragon.

    It is a very flexible concept.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-02-27 at 06:32 AM.

  7. #5227
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Warlocks got that ability in WotLK. Death Knights ALWAYS had Necromancer abilities. Even in WC3.



    Which isn’t the same situation as what we’re talking about here. Necromancy being an integral part of the DK class’ design is a purposeful design decision by Blizzard. A design decision they reinforced in Shadowlands by giving DKs additional Necromancer-style abilities.



    So the point is that Blizzard doesn’t view ranged, frail spell-casting as essential to the Necromancer concept. To Blizzard the Necromancer can be a tough melee fighter as well.

    4. link it because AFAIK we also have 2 classes that cover holy magic completely



    Yes, that was the first demonic expansion. We got Demon Hunters in the second demonic expansion. The first death expansion gave us DKs.

    The second death expansion gave us DKs with expanded lore and more Necromancer-style abilities.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It doesn’t need to be 5 specs. If the go the route of using Chromatic drakes, it could be 3 specs with each spec merging 2 flights into one. For example, a spec that merged the abilities of the blue and bronze dragon flight, a spec that merges the powers of the red and green dragon flight, and a twilight dragon flight spec that takes the place of black.

    In addition, offshoots like Netherstorm and Twilight could be utilized in the place of the traditional 5 flights, or Blizzard could simply make new ones. For example, maybe you’re ONLY a chromatic drake, or ONLY one of the Twilight drakes freed of corruption by Wrathion and you have three specs all revolving around solely the powers of a twilight dragon.

    It is a very flexible concept.
    ok so the deathknight in WC3 had the same abilities as the necromancers in WC3??

    i mean if you are using the necromancers from other games to say that the necromancer in WoW doesnt have to be cloth based caster then using the fact we have a ranger style demon hunter means that they didnt see DH as melee (especially considering only 2 abilities require melee but you never mentioned that during your tyrade about UH dk being the only spec in the game that could be played at range minus a couple abilities)

    you also seem to think that the concept of the pandaren in WoW originally not being planned and then changed because blizz decided to change it doesnt mean anything in the case of a class not existing in WoW and blizz being able to add it at any time because they can choose to which is wrong.

    Also DH being introduced in the second demon expansion isnt some requirement. They wanted to release them with TBC but decided against it in early development sooo regardless of this being the afterlife expaznsion....not the second undeath expansion...blizz can introduce nacromancer whenever they want.

    The fact that DK has some necromancer abilities which are not core to the fantasy of necromancers in Warcraft except maybe army of the dead is pointless. We have a priest and a paladin both have spells that place a small absorb and both have quick big heals and both have support abilities and both are light based with a ton of overlap unless you want to say "well actually the priest believes in the light the paladin is empowered by the light" then you have to accept the argument of "a necromancer is a master of all things death magic while a death knight uses some of it"






    also the dragonsworn doesnt require being a dragon which is a race
    for somebody whos super into "actually it works like this" you seem unable to grasp the concept of a race not being a class
    "i dont wanna be a dragons bootlicker" well good thing a lot of fans of pop culture and other dragonsworn like concepts disagree with you

    also keep in mind nobody in this thread including you and me are devs of this game and they can ignore every last bit of this whether you think they will or they wont because blizz has done stuff out of left field before

  8. #5228
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    ok so the deathknight in WC3 had the same abilities as the necromancers in WC3??

    i mean if you are using the necromancers from other games to say that the necromancer in WoW doesnt have to be cloth based caster then using the fact we have a ranger style demon hunter means that they didnt see DH as melee (especially considering only 2 abilities require melee but you never mentioned that during your tyrade about UH dk being the only spec in the game that could be played at range minus a couple abilities)
    I have no idea how you reached that conclusion. Illidan Stormrage was always in play to be the standard bearer of the Demon Hunter concept in Warcraft

    Conversely the Necromancer “hero” in Warcraft was always Arthas Menethil/Lich King

    For whatever reason, people here fail to acknowledge that WoW classes are based on heroes and lore characters. If none exists, Blizzard will make lore characters for an upcoming class, which is arguably what they did for Monks before their appearance in MoP. You should really think about why no major Necromancer lore character exists, or has been created in years following WotLK. That should be a big red flag in regards to the future chances of a Necromancer class in WoW.

    you also seem to think that the concept of the pandaren in WoW originally not being planned and then changed because blizz decided to change it doesnt mean anything in the case of a class not existing in WoW and blizz being able to add it at any time because they can choose to which is wrong.

    Also DH being introduced in the second demon expansion isnt some requirement. They wanted to release them with TBC but decided against it in early development sooo regardless of this being the afterlife expaznsion....not the second undeath expansion...blizz can introduce nacromancer whenever they want.
    Again, I don’t know what the Pandaren have to do with any of this. The point is that while Blizzard can release a Necromancer class whenever they want, it’s important to remember why Blizzard didn’t release a new class with this expansion; Blizzard felt that no potential class could match this expansion’s story, setting, or theme. Given that this expansion deals with us facing a new Lich king in Anduin, the main antagonist being the Undead character Sylvanas and the Jailer of Death, the creators of the Lich King’s helm of domination, the birthplace of Necromancy, an ongoing scourge invasion in Azeroth, etc.etc. the idea that a Necromancer class is still on the horizon is a laughable idea. You’re free to believe whatever you like, but the writing is on the wall.

    The fact that DK has some necromancer abilities which are not core to the fantasy of necromancers in Warcraft except maybe army of the dead is pointless.
    What you believe is and is not core to the Necromancer fantasy is completely your opinion.

    We have a priest and a paladin both have spells that place a small absorb and both have quick big heals and both have support abilities and both are light based with a ton of overlap unless you want to say "well actually the priest believes in the light the paladin is empowered by the light" then you have to accept the argument of "a necromancer is a master of all things death magic while a death knight uses some of it"
    Another fact you and others ignore for some reason is that priests are the class that balanced shadow and holy magic. Paladins are pure holy Warriors who use holy magic in the form of weapon and armor abilities. In terms of gameplay mechanics Priests only use holy magic for healing, whereas Paladins use it for Tanking and DPS. Priests use shadow for DPS, and Paladins don’t use shadow at all.

    Death Knights raise the dead, use diseases to weaken foes, can construct undead monstrosities, control the cold like a lich, can turn undead to enhance their dark powers, use blood and bone to heal and protect themselves, can summon a large menagerie of undead minions to fight for them,launch shadow bolts at enemies, and can even control undead that roam the world.

    What are we missing here? You think all of that is negated because they’re wearing plate and fight with a sword?




    also the dragonsworn doesnt require being a dragon which is a race
    for somebody whos super into "actually it works like this" you seem unable to grasp the concept of a race not being a class
    "i dont wanna be a dragons bootlicker" well good thing a lot of fans of pop culture and other dragonsworn like concepts disagree with you

    also keep in mind nobody in this thread including you and me are devs of this game and they can ignore every last bit of this whether you think they will or they wont because blizz has done stuff out of left field before
    Yet if we simply look at how Blizzard operates, it’s rather clear which rote they would take. We’ve played every WoW class in a different form before Blizzard made them into a WoW class. We’ve played as three different Warcraft characters that are dragons in HotS. Further, we have encountered these characters in WoW multiple times in multiple expansions, and they are major characters loaded with lore. You may view this as nothing, but consider that familiarity with a concept is a huge part of its adoption into the game, especially when it comes to classes. Just look at the Bard thread where almost every other post is about how that concept doesn’t fit WoW. There’s a reason for that.

    We have never played or even come across a dragonsworn as you have described. Again, just look at the history, and ask yourself; would you go with a concept your fanbase is familiar with and is extremely popular, or would you go with a concept that no one has seen, played, or encountered in any of your video games?

    Also Blizzard goes with “the rule of cool”. You don’t get much cooler than a dragon class based on Wrathion.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-02-27 at 07:54 AM.

  9. #5229
    Tinker or return that Ranged survival spec for hunter. That's enough for me.

  10. #5230
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Tinkerer !
    Yes, agree!

  11. #5231
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Warlocks got that ability in WotLK. Death Knights ALWAYS had Necromancer abilities. Even in WC3.
    Actually, in WC3, death knights only had death knights abilities.

    Which isn’t the same situation as what we’re talking about here. Necromancy being an integral part of the DK class’ design is a purposeful design decision by Blizzard. A design decision they reinforced in Shadowlands by giving DKs additional Necromancer-style abilities.
    They gave everyone additional necromancy abilities, in case you didn't notice.

    So the point is that Blizzard doesn’t view ranged, frail spell-casting as essential to the Necromancer concept. To Blizzard the Necromancer can be a tough melee fighter as well.
    Considering every single character in the Warcraft franchise tagged "necromancer" is actually a ranged, frail spellcaster, I would say Blizzard does see it as essential to the necromancer concept.

    The second death expansion gave us DKs with expanded lore and more Necromancer-style abilities.
    So much wrong here. This is an expansion which its theme is about the afterlife, not undeath, so, no, it's not like Wrath. And also: Blizzard gave all classes necromantic abilities.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2021-02-27 at 04:36 PM.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  12. #5232
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post

    What you believe is and is not core to the Necromancer fantasy is completely your opinion.

    Also Blizzard goes with “the rule of cool”. You don’t get much cooler than a dragon class based on Wrathion.
    same as you bud
    what you think is core to a class or cool is your opinion but you sit here acting like chris chan yelling at people for drawing sonic with different arms

    you arent blizzard
    im not blizzard
    necromancers could be next expansion
    dragonsworn could be next expansion
    the only thing that can be said for sure is that dragons are a race not a class

  13. #5233
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    necromancers could be next expansion
    They won't be because there won't be back to back death expansions, and there's no necromancer lore hero. Necromancer had a chance this expansion, and it didn't happen.

    dragonsworn could be next expansion
    If Dragonsworn is a class it's going to be based on concepts that players have already experienced in Blizzard's games. Not wholly generic concepts from non-Blizzard games.

  14. #5234
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They won't be because there won't be back to back death expansions,
    Afterlife =/= undeath. And we had Legion following WoD, remember?

    and there's no necromancer lore hero.
    There was no monk lore hero, either.

    Necromancer had a chance this expansion, and it didn't happen.
    It doesn't mean it will never get another chance.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  15. #5235
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They won't be because there won't be back to back death expansions, and there's no necromancer lore hero. Necromancer had a chance this expansion, and it didn't happen.



    If Dragonsworn is a class it's going to be based on concepts that players have already experienced in Blizzard's games. Not wholly generic concepts from non-Blizzard games.
    Thanks blizzard
    I didn’t know we had the lead designer here

    Tell me how the main theme of this expansion is necromancy when it’s one covenant with no raid

    Tell me how a dragonsworn (which blizzard already has some form of definition) can magically mean a dragon that is just....a dragon would be cooler than essentially the concept of a mortal loyal to the dragons and empowered by them considering we have one that’s a big nerd culture reference and is in multiple forms of media including video games and the other is...a dragon

  16. #5236
    Probably tinkerer, but I don't think that's a good name. They could just call it an Engineer or Inventor.

  17. #5237

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by Typrax View Post
    Probably tinkerer, but I don't think that's a good name. They could just call it an Engineer or Inventor.
    I guess its 90 % range class and i hope that nicormancer will join the battle or dark hunter that have the style of sylvanas or black mage all of those are good but i hats that called tinkerer

  18. #5238
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    All it says is your confirmation bias prevents you from recognizing other peoples wishes for a next class as valid and worth respecting, the fact that you don't see any value in a Necromancer class doesn't mean other people can't wish to see an archetype that they like be represented and you're disrespectful enough to tell them to go play a Death Knight if they want a Necromancer class because according to you they're the same thing, even though they are completely different archetypes (Anti-Paladin/Dark Knight vs a Dark themed spellcaster) because they share the same magic (Death Magic)(which also makes Warlocks and Demon Hunters "the same")

    If you genuinely can't see a difference between this:


    And this:


    And can't see why someone would desire a class that resembles the first in aesthetic and gameplay then it's clear you aren't interested in discussion but instead in shutting down anything that doesn't conform to your subjective tastes (and i say this as someone who ranks a "technology" archetype as higher than a "necromancer" archetype on what i'd like out of the next class)
    Many players can't see it because Death Knight and Warlock already fill this niche. A Blood-based class is the most original but it only fulfills the Healer role. Otherwise, it's a copycat of ESO and Diablo 3's (Hello, staff wielding and 2-H Death Knight?) necromancers that most folk here are requesting.

    It's more likely that they'll overhaul the cosmetic glyph system, with most signs pointing towards a Dragon-themed expansion and potentially a Dragon-themed class.

    It's highly unlikely we'll get a Necromancer class just like we never got an Azerite-themed class or a class based on every unique leader with unique spells in-game. Unless they borrow from the Covenant system but they don't fit the 'Necro'mancer theme save for Necrolords. This would've been the expansion to introduce a new class; once they start creating the next expansion they move on.
    Last edited by Polybius; 2021-02-28 at 07:05 AM.

  19. #5239
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Many players can't see it because Death Knight and Warlock already fill this niche. A Blood-based class is the most original but it only fulfills the Healer role. Otherwise, it's a copycat of ESO and Diablo 3's (Hello, staff wielding and 2-H Death Knight?) necromancers that most folk here are requesting.

    It's more likely that they'll overhaul the cosmetic glyph system, with most signs pointing towards a Dragon-themed expansion and potentially a Dragon-themed class.

    It's highly unlikely we'll get a Necromancer class just like we never got an Azerite-themed class or a class based on every unique leader with unique spells in-game. Unless they borrow from the Covenant system but they don't fit the 'Necro'mancer theme save for Necrolords. This would've been the expansion to introduce a new class; once they start creating the next expansion they move on.
    TBC didn’t have a demon hunter

  20. #5240
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    TBC didn’t have a demon hunter
    Because TBC followed Vanilla where they introduced the original nine classes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Thanks blizzard
    I didn’t know we had the lead designer here

    Tell me how the main theme of this expansion is necromancy when it’s one covenant with no raid
    I didn’t say Necromancy, I said Death. We’re in the realm of the dead and dealing with multiple facets of death. Necromancers as a class deal with the magic of death. In addition scourge are running rampant in Azeroth. You saying a Necromancer couldn’t be helpful in that situation as well?

    Tell me how a dragonsworn (which blizzard already has some form of definition) can magically mean a dragon that is just....a dragon would be cooler than essentially the concept of a mortal loyal to the dragons and empowered by them considering we have one that’s a big nerd culture reference and is in multiple forms of media including video games and the other is...a dragon
    We have no idea what a dragon class would be called. People just use dragonsworn because of its connection to the TTRPGs. The point is that up to this point WoW classes have always had two elements; a major lore character to attach the class to, and it being playable in some form. Dragonsworn as you describe it has neither.

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