If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[username993720]

Does joing the Venthyr give you the option to make your character look pale, with red eyes? Does it give you abilities that let your character siphon blood?
No? There you go.

You'd have racial abilities of the Venthyr.

Turalyon is a paladin in WC2. Alleria is an archer unit in WC2. Khadgar is a mage in WC2.

And even without all that, there is one inescapable fact, here: all your distinctions are purely arbitrary. They're nothing but your own opinion. I'm sorry (no, I'm not), but this is a fact.

Claiming one's argument is arbitrary because you're frustrated in your inability to prove me wrong, doesn't make you any righter.

It's not meaningless. Because the HotS Illidan plays nothing like the WC3 demon hunter unit. Their abilities are nothing alike, too. The HotS version has many ways to quickly get up-and-personal with the enemies, while the WC3 stays at range when in metamorphosis. HotS version self-heals, while WC3 version has self-immolation.

That's what called an updated and modern iteration of a 20 year old unit.

Does Illidan in HotS have Evasion & Metamorphosis abilities and an Immolation talent? yes. He's only lacking Mana Burn, because it, probably, didn't fit much.

No, we don't. I don't need to know exactly where a person comes from to know it's a foreigner. Suffices to know that they don't live in the same country as I do.

Foreigner is too general for me. It's like saying all classes come from Warcraft. We need more specific information if we'd want to predict classes.

We can, though. Pandas aren't exactly something Blizzard created, you know? Nor the drunken fighting. Or chi.

A panda martial artist? Can only think of Po.
Though, it doesn't matter if characters are outsourced to older, historic ones, because this whole game is based on inspiration from other sources like mythologies, fantasy settings and RPG games. It's not specific for classes.

I can, actually. It's easy to make an argument that the WC3 pandaren brewmaster was used for flavor and a link to a notable NPC.

Sure thing, buddy. -_-
The Pandaren Brewmaster was, merely, a small tribute That's why it appeared on the game box, cinematic trailer, in game, ushered in the Monk class and, basically, was the inspiration for the entire expansion. But, whatever you say...

Not the same thing. We're talking about playable classes here.

Yes, it is. Early considerations are not as profound as those that are, actually, implemented. There are several stages for an expansion idea: brainstorming, drafts, pre-production and implementation.

Yeah, it doesn't. Because "unique fighting style" does not equate to "oriental style martial arts". And "drunken brawler"? Really? Any drunkard that starts a fight is a "drunken brawler".

Oh, yeah... i bet they fight like a drunken irish boxer -_-
It was, pretty, obvious. You're just trying to find excuses.

Except I'm not making things up. Anchorites are really just a different name for 'priests' for the draenei. And the tauren's Sunwalkers? They're paladins, but they don't use the Light.

No shit, sherlock. -_-
Eredar Mages were called Wakeners.

It doesn't change the fact that the San'layn are more a 'true vampire' than the Venthyr. Venthyr don't suck blood, San'layn do. San'layn are literally 'born' from being bitten. Venthyr just... are born out of souls. And more.

There's nothing original about San'layn. They're vampiric Blood elves, like FelBlood elves. Venthyr don't need to suck blood. Their anima manipulation and consumption is enough to correlate them to vampirism. It's obvious when their castle is based on Dracula's castle and their use of Gargoyles and Carriages are a testimony to old vampire depictions.

incorrect, everyone does, like i showed to you.

every single race can pick hunter

Not all Hunters are rangers in lore.

you did, and if you used the two neurons to read the rest you could see that there is multiple races who fit that description and are also called rangers like orcs and pandarens

you are again, cherypicking evidence

Everything fits if you push it hard enough.
Point is, they would have been mentioned if they were rangers.

im talking about lore points, dark rangers are forsaken only, if they are teaching other races they can teach any race who can shot a bow

Wrong again.
Dark Rangers are not forsaken only, but undead High elves, Night elves and Humans, too.
This can be attributed to their ranger backgrounds in life.

nope, its your headcanon, totally wrong.

Whatever you say...
*Literally backing up my argument with lore sources, but who cares, eh?*

Venthyr require anima to continue existing like literally every other denizen of the Shadowlands. If they became playable, Blizzard would literally be throwing away the most important element of the expansion. So yes, if covenant races became playable, Blizzard would be shitting all over the lore they JUST established in Shadowlands. Because anima doesn't exist outside the Shadowlands.

I wouldn't be concerned about that as much as their exposure to light.

They could learn to sustain themselves on other things, like Blood elves and Nightborne learned to do.

Nothing exclude another race from becoming a Dark Ranger, the only thing that limited it were the trainers

If you're not using lore, then yes.
But, that's just shitty.

Meh. Denizens of the Shadowlands have always traversed to Azeroth (e.g. Kyrian, loa, Drust, etc.). They've already taken on important roles in the cosmic war (i.e. Necrolords). Anima is inherently in souls, so it's not dependent on the Shadowlands.

Exactly.
Much like how undead need to drain lives to sustain/repair themselves.

Your general assertion is correct.

The original WoW classes are combinations of multiple classes and units. The Warlock for example is largely a class that took multiple demonic abilities from various heroes and units and combined it into a class. Shaman took multiple abilities from multiple Shaman units and combined them into a class.

The expansion classes took a slightly different route. They've been based entirely on individual hero characters dating back to WC3, and the class is introduced in expansions heavily themed around the expansions they were released in.

As it currently stands, the only class concepts that match the previous inclusions are Dark Ranger and the Tinker. Dark Ranger is in a rather precarious position due to Sylvanas' situation in the current expansion, and Nathanos (and Dark Rangers in general) being heavily tied to the Hunter class.

The Tinker is in a rather strong position due to Gazlowe now being the leader of the Goblin race within the Horde, and that Tinker abilities still remain outside the class line up, and there are a lot of Tinker abilities.

I'm not falling into that trap again.
This is the last time you try to shove the Tinker into my throat.

The rune carving aspects of Runemasters was obviously absorbed by Death Knights and the Martial Arts aspect was obviously absorbed by Monks. There's also the problem that we see literally zero Runemasters throughout the entire lore of the playable game. Runemaster is a half baked concept to begin with, cool but it isn't canon.

Actually, there are Dregmar Runebrand (Magnataur), Runemaster Molgeim (Iron Vrykul), Runemaster Skomjorn (Vrykul), Iron Rune Runemaster (Iron Dwarf) and Gorian Runemaster (Ogre).
They use abilities like:
Rune Shield — Protects the caster from all damage for 30 sec.
Shield of Runes — Covers the caster in magic runes, absorbing up to 20000 damage. If 20000 damage is absorbed, this damage in converted into a powerful burst of energy, increasing the caster's damage by 50% for 15 sec.
Rune of Power — Summons a Rune of Power under a random friendly target. This rune increases damage by 50% of all friendly and enemy targets within 5 yards.
Rune of Death — Summons a Rune of Death at a random enemy target's location. This rune deals 2750 Shadow damage every half-second to anyone within 13 yards of that location. Only available when under the affect of [Supercharge].
Rune of Summoning — Creates a Rune of Summoning near a random enemy. This rune will periodically summon Lightning Elementals, which will rush towards random enemies and explode. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.
Lightning Blast — Unleashes a large blast of lightning, dealing 9425 to 10575 Nature damage to all enemies within 30 yards of the caster but killing the caster in the process. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.

Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.
Rune of Disintegration - Conjures a field of arcane energy that persists for 30 sec. Enemies within the field suffer 12500 Arcane damage every 0.5 sec.
Rune of Unmaking - Inflcits 17005 to 18795 Arcane damage to an enemy.
Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.

Runemaster's Pauldrons
Item Level 910
Binds when picked up
Unique-Equipped: Legion Legendary (1)
Leather
Shoulder
301 Armor
+1786 Agility
+2680 Stamina
+827 Critical Strike
+459 Haste
Equip: Metamorphosis resets the remaining cooldown on all your Sigils and Empower Wards, and grants you 1 charge of Demon Spikes.
Durability 120 / 120
Classes: Demon Hunter
Requires Level 110
"Molgeim of the Assembly of Iron mastered the use of runes for a myriad of devastating effects."

As for the discussion going on here about Runemasters. Rune magic is not unique to Death Knights. Runemasters don't even portray a human, but mostly Tauren in the RPG sources and other non-Death Knight races in the game (like i listed above) except for maybe two (Vrykul and Ogre) which are, currently, not playable.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rune_magic

[Ielenia]

Except we never got a Runemaster class. Instead every class we got since Vanilla has had a WC3 basis, and is tied to a big hero/villain in the expansion.

But it doesn't matter, though. The simple fact that the runemaster concept was one of the three finalists despite not having a "WC3 basis", beating other concepts that not only have "WC3 basis" but also were much more popular, like demon hunter and tinker, proves that "needs WC3 basis" is not a requirement, and exists solely in your head.

I'm saying that the supposed conceptual classes which were competing with the DK were already a part of the DK concept, which makes it doubtful that they were ever truly possible independent class concepts.

Except they weren't. Wielding a runic blade does not make one a runemaster. Again: my paladin wields a runeblade. Is my paladin a runemaster, then? You're cheapening the concept of the runemaster by saying all there needs to be done for one to be a runemaster is to wield a runeblade.

BTW, the lack of a Necromancer class in Shadowlands reinforces this argument.

It does not, as explained many times, already.

You're seriously comparing an item to integral lore surrounding the Death Knight?

Yes, I am. Because you're misrepresenting the lore. All it is said about the WC3 death knight is that they wield runeblades. It doesn't say they are the ones that create the runeblades. It doesn't say that the death knights are masters of runes. You're making a gigantic leap of logic here, one that also makes my paladin a runemaster because, again, my paladin wields a runeblade.

I never said they were lying. I said that they have been dishonest or misled in the past.

By accusing them of telling a "dubious story" and that they're "misleading" you, you are saying they lied. If you're accusing them of not telling the truth, you are calling them liars.

For example, Tom Chilton stating rebuking rumors around MoP being the next expansion;

https://web.archive.org/web/20110925...1191590p1.html

They never outright said that "mists of pandaria" is not going to be the next expansion.

What's the reason? As I said before, it makes future classes rather easy to predict. So why not toss a few non-starters into the mix to make people believe they have hundreds of class concepts while we ignore the fact that the last three expansion classes are all from WC3, all major hero characters, and were hinted at years before their debut.

Extremely made up nonsense. Again, lying about the runemaster being one of the top three picks for Wrath in nothing helps Blizzard. "Predicting classes" is a non-issue, considering people literally keep watch of what Blizzard trademarks, examine each and every possible "seed" within the game, and even read between the lines in their books, comics and other Warcraft-related games.

[TheRevenantHero]

You'd have racial abilities of the Venthyr.





Claiming one's argument is arbitrary because you're frustrated in your inability to prove me wrong, doesn't make you any righter.



That's what called an updated and modern iteration of a 20 year old unit.

Does Illidan in HotS have Evasion & Metamorphosis abilities and an Immolation talent? yes. He's only lacking Mana Burn, because it, probably, didn't fit much.



Foreigner is too general for me. It's like saying all classes come from Warcraft. We need more specific information if we'd want to predict classes.



A panda martial artist? Can only think of Po.
Though, it doesn't matter if characters are outsourced to older, historic ones, because this whole game is based on inspiration from other sources like mythologies, fantasy settings and RPG games. It's not specific for classes.



Sure thing, buddy. -_-
The Pandaren Brewmaster was, merely, a small tribute That's why it appeared on the game box, cinematic trailer, in game, ushered in the Monk class and, basically, was the inspiration for the entire expansion. But, whatever you say...



Yes, it is. Early considerations are not as profound as those that are, actually, implemented. There are several stages for an expansion idea: brainstorming, drafts, pre-production and implementation.



Oh, yeah... i bet they fight like a drunken irish boxer -_-
It was, pretty, obvious. You're just trying to find excuses.



No shit, sherlock. -_-
Eredar Mages were called Wakeners.



There's nothing original about San'layn. They're vampiric Blood elves, like FelBlood elves. Venthyr don't need to suck blood. Their anima manipulation and consumption is enough to correlate them to vampirism. It's obvious when their castle is based on Dracula's castle and their use of Gargoyles and Carriages are a testimony to old vampire depictions.



Not all Hunters are rangers in lore.



Everything fits if you push it hard enough.
Point is, they would have been mentioned if they were rangers.



Wrong again.
Dark Rangers are not forsaken only, but undead High elves, Night elves and Humans, too.
This can be attributed to their ranger backgrounds in life.



Whatever you say...
*Literally backing up my argument with lore sources, but who cares, eh?*



I wouldn't be concerned about that as much as their exposure to light.

They could learn to sustain themselves on other things, like Blood elves and Nightborne learned to do.



If you're not using lore, than yes.
But, that's just shitty.



Exactly.
Much like how undead need to drain lives to sustain/repair themselves.



I'm not falling into that trap again.
This is the last time you try to shove the Tinker into my throat.



Actually, there are Dregmar Runebrand (Magnataur), Runemaster Molgeim (Iron Vrykul), Runmaster Skomjorn (Vrykul), Iron Rune Runemaster (Iron Dwarf) and Gorian Runemaster (Ogre).
They use abilities like:
Rune Shield — Protects the caster from all damage for 30 sec.
Shield of Runes — Covers the caster in magic runes, absorbing up to 20000 damage. If 20000 damage is absorbed, this damage in converted into a powerful burst of energy, increasing the caster's damage by 50% for 15 sec.
Rune of Power — Summons a Rune of Power under a random friendly target. This rune increases damage by 50% of all friendly and enemy targets within 5 yards.
Rune of Death — Summons a Rune of Death at a random enemy target's location. This rune deals 2750 Shadow damage every half-second to anyone within 13 yards of that location. Only available when under the affect of [Supercharge].
Rune of Summoning — Creates a Rune of Summoning near a random enemy. This rune will periodically summon Lightning Elementals, which will rush towards random enemies and explode. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.
Lightning Blast — Unleashes a large blast of lightning, dealing 9425 to 10575 Nature damage to all enemies within 30 yards of the caster but killing the caster in the process. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.

Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.
Rune of Disintegration - Conjures a field of arcane energy that persists for 30 sec. Enemies within the field suffer 12500 Arcane damage every 0.5 sec.
Rune of Unmaking - Inflcits 17005 to 18795 Arcane damage to an enemy.
Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.

Runemaster's Pauldrons
Item Level 910
Binds when picked up
Unique-Equipped: Legion Legendary (1)
Leather
Shoulder
301 Armor
+1786 Agility
+2680 Stamina
+827 Critical Strike
+459 Haste
Equip: Metamorphosis resets the remaining cooldown on all your Sigils and Empower Wards, and grants you 1 charge of Demon Spikes.
Durability 120 / 120
Classes: Demon Hunter
Requires Level 110
"Molgeim of the Assembly of Iron mastered the use of runes for a myriad of devastating effects."

As for the discussion going on here about Runemasters. Rune magic is not unique to Death Knights. Runemasters don't even portray a human, but mostly Tauren in the RPG sources and other non-Death Knight races in the game (like i listed above) except for maybe two (Vrykul and Ogre) which are, currently, not playable.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rune_magic

You just.....really don't care about lore unless it suits your narrative huh? Races in the Shadowlands can't leave for extended amounts of time because their existence depends on anima. So making them playable would make no fucking sense from a lore standpoint. Though I'm not sure why I'm bothering because you perpetually pick and choose lore tidbits instead of looking at the entire picture.

[Ielenia]

Claiming one's argument is arbitrary because you're frustrated in your inability to prove me wrong, doesn't make you any righter.

It is arbitrary, though. You came up with those based on observation alone. There is nothing that makes your "rules" a fact.

That's what called an updated and modern iteration of a 20 year old unit.

Does Illidan in HotS have Evasion & Metamorphosis abilities and an Immolation talent? yes. He's only lacking Mana Burn, because it, probably, didn't fit much.

Except the HotS hero plays nothing like the WC3 unit. "Updating" means improving what is there, not removing what it has and putting new, different stuff. That's like saying the spoon is an "updated and modern iteration" of the fork done by removing the fork's teeth and undulating the flat par.

Foreigner is too general for me.

That's on you, though. Not me.

It's like saying all classes come from Warcraft. We need more specific information if we'd want to predict classes.

Except we're not trying to "predict classes", here. We're talking specifically about the monk class. If we want to predict classes, we need to see what Blizzard is doing within the game's lore right now, not scour previous games and see what player units are still unused.

A panda martial artist? Can only think of Po.

Pandas are one of China's most popular, well, anything. I don't think there's anything out of China that is more popular than the panda. And also we have oriental-style martial arts. It's not hard to put both together when we're talking about a game with anthropomorphic animals, I hope.

Sure thing, buddy. -_-
The Pandaren Brewmaster was, merely, a small tribute That's why it appeared on the game box, cinematic trailer, in game, ushered in the Monk class and, basically, was the inspiration for the entire expansion. But, whatever you say...

I would say that the entirety of Pandaria and its culture was derived from chinese culture, considering the monk class concept in popular media is of an oriental-style character.

Yes, it is. Early considerations are not as profound as those that are, actually, implemented. There are several stages for an expansion idea: brainstorming, drafts, pre-production and implementation.

No, they're not. Classes are not designed the same way as stuff like Dance Studio or an in-game profession. And the point that the runemaster was indeed considered twice, and almost made the cut, shows that we don't need Warcraft 3 heroes to base a class on.

Oh, yeah... i bet they fight like a drunken irish boxer -_-
It was, pretty, obvious. You're just trying to find excuses.

It's only obvious if you're engaging in confirmation bias.

There's nothing original about San'layn. They're vampiric Blood elves, like FelBlood elves. Venthyr don't need to suck blood. Their anima manipulation and consumption is enough to correlate them to vampirism. It's obvious when their castle is based on Dracula's castle and their use of Gargoyles and Carriages are a testimony to old vampire depictions.

I never said the San'layn are original, so I don't know why you decided to point that out. I simply pointed out that the San'layn are more like "true vampires" than the venthyr, considering the San'layn are actually born out of a blood curse, are undead, and require to drain blood. The venthyr are none of that.

[username993720]

You just.....really don't care about lore unless it suits your narrative huh? Races in the Shadowlands can't leave for extended amounts of time because their existence depends on anima. So making them playable would make no fucking sense from a lore standpoint. Though I'm not sure why I'm bothering because you perpetually pick and choose lore tidbits instead of looking at the entire picture.

Will you ever learn to crop your quotes?

And, you don't have any idea of how much time they can spend outside the Shadowlands. How much time did Draka and her mentor spend on that planet, huh?

[Teriz]

Actually, there are Dregmar Runebrand (Magnataur), Runemaster Molgeim (Iron Vrykul), Runemaster Skomjorn (Vrykul), Iron Rune Runemaster (Iron Dwarf) and Gorian Runemaster (Ogre).
They use abilities like:
Rune Shield — Protects the caster from all damage for 30 sec.
Shield of Runes — Covers the caster in magic runes, absorbing up to 20000 damage. If 20000 damage is absorbed, this damage in converted into a powerful burst of energy, increasing the caster's damage by 50% for 15 sec.
Rune of Power — Summons a Rune of Power under a random friendly target. This rune increases damage by 50% of all friendly and enemy targets within 5 yards.
Rune of Death — Summons a Rune of Death at a random enemy target's location. This rune deals 2750 Shadow damage every half-second to anyone within 13 yards of that location. Only available when under the affect of [Supercharge].
Rune of Summoning — Creates a Rune of Summoning near a random enemy. This rune will periodically summon Lightning Elementals, which will rush towards random enemies and explode. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.
Lightning Blast — Unleashes a large blast of lightning, dealing 9425 to 10575 Nature damage to all enemies within 30 yards of the caster but killing the caster in the process. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.

Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.
Rune of Disintegration - Conjures a field of arcane energy that persists for 30 sec. Enemies within the field suffer 12500 Arcane damage every 0.5 sec.
Rune of Unmaking - Inflcits 17005 to 18795 Arcane damage to an enemy.
Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rune_magic

That doesn’t sound like a monk. That sounds like a spellcaster.

[username993720]

It is arbitrary, though. You came up with those based on observation alone. There is nothing that makes your "rules" a fact.

That's called speculation, my friend.
Nothing is 100% factual. That's why we're here to speculate. But, at least i have some obeservational evidence.

Except the HotS hero plays nothing like the WC3 unit. "Updating" means improving what is there, not removing what it has and putting new, different stuff. That's like saying the spoon is an "updated and modern iteration" of the fork done by removing the fork's teeth and undulating the flat par.

Are you claiming there is no connection, whatsoever, between the WC3 Demon Hunter unit and Illidan on HotS? Because that would be foolish of you...
It doesn't need to play like its Warcraft 3 counterpart. It's a revisioned concept of an old unit.

That's on you, though. Not me.

Nah. If we want to make some progress with class predictions, we'd have to dive deeper than just general definitions.

Except we're not trying to "predict classes", here. We're talking specifically about the monk class. If we want to predict classes, we need to see what Blizzard is doing within the game's lore right now, not scour previous games and see what player units are still unused.

You forgot what this thread is about

I did that, too.
According to my analysis, a Void/Light expansion or a Dragon Isles one are due. So, make what you will of that...

Pandas are one of China's most popular, well, anything. I don't think there's anything out of China that is more popular than the panda. And also we have oriental-style martial arts. It's not hard to put both together when we're talking about a game with anthropomorphic animals, I hope.

I hope you don't, really, believe that they took the Panda, martial arts and came up with the Monk class for Mists of Pandaria. Because they did a long time before when Samwise Didier drew a Pandaren sketch, and then made the whole RPG information about them. It came from this, which in turn, produced the Pandaren Brewmaster for WC3.

I would say that the entirety of Pandaria and its culture was derived from chinese culture, considering the monk class concept in popular media is of an oriental-style character.

Of course it is. But, you've mixed up you timelines. They, already, drew upon that when they made the Pandaren in the RPG sources and the subsequent Warcraft 3. It didn't just pop one day when they decided they're gonna make MoP. Heck, Pandaren were considered as far back as TBC. China just didn't allow them to use pandas.

No, they're not. Classes are not designed the same way as stuff like Dance Studio or an in-game profession. And the point that the runemaster was indeed considered twice, and almost made the cut, shows that we don't need Warcraft 3 heroes to base a class on.

Almost made the cut?
Lost twice shows how it's, most often, integrated into more prominent classes.

It's only obvious if you're engaging in confirmation bias.

Said the one who outright claimed Pandaren and Monk are, clearly, based on China's Pandas and martial arts.

I never said the San'layn are original, so I don't know why you decided to point that out. I simply pointed out that the San'layn are more like "true vampires" than the venthyr, considering the San'layn are actually born out of a blood curse, are undead, and require to drain blood. The venthyr are none of that.

The Venthyr are more likely to be added the same way Sylvar are more likely than Satyr and Kyrians are more likely than Val'kyr. You know why? because those guys are just modified races (Night elves, Vrykul).

That doesn’t sound like a monk. That sounds like a spellcaster.

That's not the Monk part. That's the runic one.




That is your Monkish Runemaster:

[pacotaco]

Most probable (as they all were strongly hinted during BFA):
- Tinker
- Dark Ranger
- Warden

Less likely (as they all are Warcraft 3 heroe units, like the 3 previous classes added to the game):
- Blademaster
- Shadowhunter
- Priestess of the Moon/Night Warrior

Unlikely (from the non-canon TTRPG and non-hero units from WC3):
- Runemaster (something like a monk using runes like DKs)
- Necromancer
- Dragonsworn
- Alchemist/Apotecary
- Spellbreaker

[Teriz]

That's not the Monk part. That's the runic one.
[]

I know. The point is that there is no defined Runemaster hero or class concept in Warcraft. Arguably there never was. The Monk-like version is now decanonized, and the WoW version is an undefined mush of Mage and DK abilities. Even before the decanonization occurred, the concept was still undefined due to a lack of a hero character.

[cocomen2]

Most probable (as they all were strongly hinted during BFA):
- Tinker
- Dark Ranger
- Warden

Less likely (as they all are Warcraft 3 heroe units, like the 3 previous classes added to the game):
- Blademaster
- Shadowhunter
- Priestess of the Moon/Night Warrior

Unlikely (from the non-canon TTRPG and non-hero units from WC3):
- Runemaster (something like a monk using runes like DKs)
- Necromancer
- Dragonsworn
- Alchemist/Apotecary
- Spellbreaker

With Runecarver presence and Zovaal face being full of runes, runemaster in "unlikely" category? don't make me sad.
As for ShadowHunter , sadly but after Vol'jin died to random mob that class become somewhat a meme. (will kids really want to play it?)

[FossilFree]

WoW is missing the Wardrummer class from WC3. It's time to remedy that oversight!


@1:05

[Teriz]

WoW is missing the Wardrummer class from WC3. It's time to remedy that oversight!


@1:05

I'll never understand the desire for a Bard class in WoW. There's no point to it from a gameplay or lore perspective. It's quite telling that in the history of Warcraft, there has never been a Bard class or Bard hero. There wasn't even a Bard unit in any WC game.

And before you trot out the Kodo Rider, I mean a unit actually called Bard.

[Maxilian]

If you're not using lore, then yes.
But, that's just shitty.

There's no lore reason that would exclude another race for becoming a new generation of Dark Rangers

[pacotaco]

With Runecarver presence and Zovaal face being full of runes, runemaster in "unlikely" category? don't make me sad.
As for ShadowHunter , sadly but after Vol'jin died to random mob that class become somewhat a meme. (will kids really want to play it?)

Yeah, sadly. There's barely presence in game of something like the runemaster (just 3 or 4 NPCs), and not even the barebones of something like a class.
We're seeing now some lore that could pave the way to it with the rune magic and the domination magic, but nothing compared with the others.

[draugril]

And before you trot out the Kodo Rider, I mean a unit actually called Bard.

To be completely fair... can you find a pre-WoW hero unit called a Rogue or Warrior?

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, sadly. There's barely presence in game of something like the runemaster (just 3 or 4 NPCs), and not even the barebones of something like a class.
We're seeing now some lore that could pave the way to it with the rune magic and the domination magic, but nothing compared with the others.

Because we had so many Monks running around pre-MoP...

[pacotaco]

Because we had so many Monks running around pre-MoP...

Well, that's what "Unlikely" means.
I doubt back in Cata anyone tough about adding monk was probable.

It just depends on Blizzard thinking that the class matches the theme of the expansion and having the technology/design for the class.

[Teriz]

To be completely fair... can you find a pre-WoW hero unit called a Rogue or Warrior?

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rogue_(Warcraft_III)

Also multiple units in WC3 were considered "warriors";

The Mountain Kings, or 'Thanes' as they are known in Khaz Modan, are the mightiest Dwarven warriors under the mountain.

(Tauren Chieftain) These elder Tauren warriors lead their Tribes in daily life as well as in battle.

Though the hearty Knights of Azeroth were destroyed during the First War, the shining Knights of Lordaeron still continue to serve amongst the warriors of the Alliance.

(Footmen)Though these fierce warriors lack the shining plate mail and specialized training of their noble predecessors, they still fight with bravery and honor on the field of battle.

etc.

It should also be noted that Warrior and Rogue are very generic RPG classes. They don't require the level of seeding that something like a Bard would require.

[Ielenia]

That's called speculation, my friend.
Nothing is 100% factual. That's why we're here to speculate. But, at least i have some obeservational evidence.

Then why do you get overly defensive when I point out your arguments are arbitrary and pure speculation?

Claiming one's argument is arbitrary because you're frustrated in your inability to prove me wrong, doesn't make you any righter.

Are you claiming there is no connection, whatsoever, between the WC3 Demon Hunter unit and Illidan on HotS?

That was never my argument, and it shows, so not sure why you felt like asking that. I simply said that the HotS Illidan is a different concept than the WC3 demon hunter, and I've explained why: different abilities and playstyles.

Nah. If we want to make some progress with class predictions, we'd have to dive deeper than just general definitions.

Nah. Again, that's purely on you.

You forgot what this thread is about

I'm talking about our particular conversation about the merits of the monk class' origin and design, not the thread as a whole.

I hope you don't, really, believe that they took the Panda, martial arts and came up with the Monk class for Mists of Pandaria. Because they did a long time before when Samwise Didier drew a Pandaren sketch, and then made the whole RPG information about them. It came from this, which in turn, produced the Pandaren Brewmaster for WC3.

But they did, though. The Brewmaster RPG prestige class doesn't have much "monk" in them, really.

Of course it is. But, you've mixed up you timelines. They, already, drew upon that when they made the Pandaren in the RPG sources and the subsequent Warcraft 3. It didn't just pop one day when they decided they're gonna make MoP. Heck, Pandaren were considered as far back as TBC. China just didn't allow them to use pandas.

You accuse me of "mixing up timelines" and yet you claim that a TTRPG expansion book that came out in 2008 somehow came first than a game expansion that came out in 2003. Food for thought.

Almost made the cut?
Lost twice shows how it's, most often, integrated into more prominent classes.

It doesn't matter. The fact it was not only considered, but was one of the top three shows that we don't need WC3 units for class concepts. Otherwise the runemaster concept wouldn't even be considered at all, in the first place.

Said the one who outright claimed Pandaren and Monk are, clearly, based on China's Pandas and martial arts.

I said that because they are. Any claim to the contrary is being delusional.

The Venthyr are more likely to be added the same way Sylvar are more likely than Satyr and Kyrians are more likely than Val'kyr. You know why? because those guys are just modified races (Night elves, Vrykul).

You would have a point if Allied Races wasn't a thing. We have LF draenei who are just modified draenei. We have nightborne who are modified night elves. And also: unless Blizzard does something to fundamentally change Shadowlands, the Venthyr cannot exist in Azeroth, because of one little problem: they burn and go mad under the light.

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That doesn’t sound like a monk. That sounds like a spellcaster.

Still waiting on your reply, by the way.

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It should also be noted that Warrior and Rogue are very generic RPG classes. They don't require the level of seeding that something like a Bard would require.

Bards are also rather generic rpg class, really.

[Teriz]

Bards are also rather generic rpg class, really.

I'm talking about the five base (generic) RPG classes;

Fighter/Warrior, Thief/Rogue, Archer/Hunter, Wizard/Mage, Cleric/Priest

Classes like the Bard aren't really a part of that group, and in the case of Warcraft would require a great deal of seeding since they simply don't exist beyond a few scattered, disparate NPCs. Compare that to the remaining 4 original WoW classes:

Shaman, Warlock, Paladin, Druid. Those classes received a great deal of seeding, and were concepts pretty steeped in Warcraft lore, with major characters being members of those classes. Nothing like that exists for the Bard.

A prominent hero character would be a good first step.

[Syegfryed]

Not all Hunters are rangers in lore.

the distinction is like water and h20, and the point is not that they aren't is that they can be, ranger is not something so alien or exceptional, is just guys with bows.

Everything fits if you push it hard enough.
Point is, they would have been mentioned if they were rangers.

they were literally, mentioned in the wiki that you linked, are you blind or just pretending?

and you are just "pushing hard" until it gits your agenda

Wrong again.
Dark Rangers are not forsaken only, but undead High elves, Night elves and Humans, too.

All those are forsaken, lol, forsaken is the group that encompass all the undeads, talking about a joke, trying to correct someone by being wrong.

This can be attributed to their ranger backgrounds in life.

nope, thats a lie, in part, you see

Take your link to the ranger section in the wiki, there is not a single mention of night elves or void elves, so they are not rangers, threfore, they do not fit your vision

but orcs and draeneis by example, are rangers, listed there

Whatever you say...
*Literally backing up my argument with lore sources, but who cares, eh?*

youd din't even read the source, you would know that literally refutew you.