1. #5881
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Temporarily, not permanently.

    As for the Priest’s mind based abilities, Wowhead is your friend.



    Except the concept is based around piloting a mech, not rocket boots.



    The ultimate Tinker ability from WC3 is piloting a mech. Monks, DKs, and DHs all got their ultimates, so why wouldn’t the Tinker? Robo Goblin has been a permanent form in both WC3 and HotS, and Goblins and Gnomes are constantly shown piloting mechs.
    And do you have proof of anything you say?

    Interesting you seem to not be able to link anything when you used to link stuff so easily before. Hmmmm I wonder why?

    Robo-Goblin
    Cooldown: 40 seconds
    Activate to become Unstoppable for 1.5 seconds.
    Passive: Basic Attacks deal 90 bonus damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.
    Type: Spell Damage / Status effect
    Scaling: 4.00%
    Affects: Enemies / Self
    Targeting: No target
    Properties: Attack Modifier, Damage over Time, Unstoppable
    Cast time: Instant
    Tickrate: 2.0 per second (x10)
    Damage per tick: 9

    He doesn't gain a mech in hots with robo goblin lol. Do you even do any research before you spout your nonsence?
    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/...obo-Goblin.jpg

    So tell me how that Hots having a spell named robo goblin means a tinker would get a mech? Especially when you say it wouldn't be temporary and yet it is in Hots?
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-04-18 at 10:33 PM.

  2. #5882
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    And do you have proof of anything you say?

    Interesting you seem to not be able to link anything when you used to link stuff so easily before. Hmmmm I wonder why?
    I figured at this point you could simply look things up yourself. I shouldn't have to link every single thing to you.

    Robo-Goblin
    Cooldown: 40 seconds
    Activate to become Unstoppable for 1.5 seconds.
    Passive: Basic Attacks deal 90 bonus damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.
    Type: Spell Damage / Status effect
    Scaling: 4.00%
    Affects: Enemies / Self
    Targeting: No target
    Properties: Attack Modifier, Damage over Time, Unstoppable
    Cast time: Instant
    Tickrate: 2.0 per second (x10)
    Damage per tick: 9

    He doesn't gain a mech in hots with robo goblin lol. Do you even do any research before you spout your nonsence?
    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/...obo-Goblin.jpg

    So tell me how that Hots having a spell named robo goblin means a tinker would get a mech? Especially when you say it wouldn't be temporary and yet it is in Hots?
    You're looking at the ability after multiple patches through its 6 year history. Robo Goblin was originally a toggle like its WC3 version where Gazlowe merged with his claw pack ala Iron Man;



    Then it settled on its passive form where the claws turned into Buzz Saws, and Gazlowe's armor was increased. He also got a shield cooldown that reduced damage and allowed him to move faster.

    This past September, they altered the ability to the version you linked to. As @Something Wicked pointed out, despite those alterations to HotS' ability, Gazlowe still had a permanent mech form.

  3. #5883
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    Because while I agree Tinkers exist in WoW, I think they're far more on the edge of the fantasy world than the DK. The DK/DH both have a major character involved in them, the two biggest in the franchise. And the Monk while it didn't have much going in the way of characters, fits very comfortably in a fantasy world.

    Tinkers being tech based are a little edgier when it comes to the fantasy part. We all accept gnomes and goblins have all sorts of weird tech stuff, but I think having tons and tons of mechano-men running around with rockets and jetpacks on breaks the fantasy a bit for a lot of people, and that's why I think they're a lot more of a risk.
    Hmmm, did you miss the amount of technology on the Warcraft universe?
    - Tanks
    - Zeppelins
    - Teleporters
    - Starships
    - Cannons & rifles (both projectile- AND laser- based)
    - All kind of mechanical beast.

  4. #5884
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I figured at this point you could simply look things up yourself. I shouldn't have to link every single thing to you.



    You're looking at the ability after multiple patches through its 6 year history. Robo Goblin was originally a toggle like its WC3 version where Gazlowe merged with his claw pack ala Iron Man;



    Then it settled on its passive form where the claws turned into Buzz Saws, and Gazlowe's armor was increased. He also got a shield cooldown that reduced damage and allowed him to move faster.

    This past September, they altered the ability to the version you linked to. As @Something Wicked pointed out, despite those alterations to HotS' ability, Gazlowe still had a permanent mech form.
    He has a mech form in an island expedition. And we know NPC heroes have different abilities than classes. How many of the actual npcs tinkers in wow use perma mechs? One Gelbin. How many non tinker npcs use mechs? A fuck ton.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tinker

    If anything you are disproving that tinkers would get mechs. Based on npcs a pilot class would get one.

    Gazlowes offical class in wow is an engineer.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-04-18 at 11:14 PM.

  5. #5885
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    He has a mech form in an island expedition. And we know NPC heroes have different abilities than classes. How many of the actual npcs tinkers in wow use perma mechs? One Gelbin. How many non tinker npcs use mechs? A fuck ton.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tinker

    If anything you are disproving that tinkers would get mechs. Based on npcs a pilot class would get one.

    Gazlowes offical class in wow is an engineer.
    You’re missing the point; The vast majority of notable Goblins and Gnomes are piloting mechs. What an NPC is currently labeled as is irrelevant. What is relevant is that fighting inside a robot is fairly common practice in the Goblin and Gnome races. Hell, BOTH the faction leaders fight inside mechs.

    Additionally, and perhaps most relevant of all is the FACT that every single expansion class got their WC3 ultimate ability translated into WoW (DKs got 2). Why would the Tinker NOT get its ultimate WC3 ability?

  6. #5886
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Engineering doesn’t craft any of the robotic vehicles available to any of the prominent Goblins or Gnomes. Kind of hard to make that argument when the only Goblin or Gnome mech you can craft is the Sky Golem.
    Then blame Blizzard for being lazy. This has anything to do with classes using vehicular combat in their Class mechanics.

    The DK riding a horse wasn’t an ability. Robo Goblin was an ability.
    Robogoblin was a form. Not a vehicle.

    "Transforms the Tinker into a Robo-Goblin, a powerful armored form that has the following traits:"
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #5887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then blame Blizzard for being lazy. This has anything to do with classes using vehicular combat in their Class mechanics.
    We can only consider Blizzard lazy if the evidence matched your premise.

    It doesn’t.


    Robogoblin was a form. Not a vehicle.

    "Transforms the Tinker into a Robo-Goblin, a powerful armored form that has the following traits:"
    The “form” is a Goblin inside a mecha tank.

  8. #5888
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You’re missing the point; The vast majority of notable Goblins and Gnomes are piloting mechs. What an NPC is currently labeled as is irrelevant. What is relevant is that fighting inside a robot is fairly common practice in the Goblin and Gnome races. Hell, BOTH the faction leaders fight inside mechs.

    Additionally, and perhaps most relevant of all is the FACT that every single expansion class got their WC3 ultimate ability translated into WoW (DKs got 2). Why would the Tinker NOT get its ultimate WC3 ability?
    Nowhere in lore does it state only goblins and gnomes can be tinkers. And who is notable gnomes and goblins? Literally only one single lore tinker uses a mech. EVERY Other one of those "notable goblins and gnomes" is a class other than tinker and the only notable tinkers besides Gelbin don't use mechs. If anything your "proof" shows that a mech should be a racial ability and not a class one then.

    None of the class abilities have been perfectly translated into wow they all have different balancing issues. Blizzard gave some spells some known names so its possible robo-goblin if it ever became a class ability would just be a temp buff skill like in hots. Just because you want something doesn't mean its going to happen.

  9. #5889
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then blame Blizzard for being lazy. This has anything to do with classes using vehicular combat in their Class mechanics.



    Robogoblin was a form. Not a vehicle.

    "Transforms the Tinker into a Robo-Goblin, a powerful armored form that has the following traits:"
    Also ignoring that the current vehicle mechanic isn't made to support general PVE or PVP (only being used in specific quests or bosses) Vehicles are world objects, that you enter & exist manually (instead how you can exit druid form by casting a non-form usable form ability), can only use a limited selection of abilities (like six at most) and provide essentially a second healthbar.

    Any kind of "Vehicle mechanic" for a potential Tinker would in all likelihood fit into the same general mechanics as other shapeshifts maybe with it's own restrictions, just because it's a new class doesn't mean it has to have a super gameplay altering mechanic, they didn't ship Monks with the original idea for it lacking an auto attack, DK's had blood, unholy, death and frost runes removed to simplify their resource system, Demon Hunters didn't really launch with anything beyond gimmicks like double jump, spectral or glide which while unique don't alter the general gameplay all that much

  10. #5890
    Anyone ever saw gnomes or goblins in expansion cinematics? (so i would not be bothered to look for them)



    EDIT: ye ye , i know i lazy Slayer.
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2021-04-19 at 12:10 AM.
    I want these classes in new x-pac Necromancer,RuneMaster,Warden,BladeMaster,DarkRanger,Dragonsworn,Alchemist,Bard,Spellbreak er

  11. #5891
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Nowhere in lore does it state only goblins and gnomes can be tinkers.
    Where did I make that argument?

    And who is notable gnomes and goblins?
    Gazlowe, Mekkatorque, Gallywix, Madds, Nogginfogger, Razdunk, Boss Mira, Thermaplugg, Blackfuse, The Gob Squad, etc.

    Literally only one single lore tinker uses a mech. EVERY Other one of those "notable goblins and gnomes" is a class other than tinker and the only notable tinkers besides Gelbin don't use mechs. If anything your "proof" shows that a mech should be a racial ability and not a class one then.
    Gazlowe uses the Tinker abilities from HotS in the Island Expeditions in WoW, and is the Tinker hero in HotS. How is that not proof?

    None of the class abilities have been perfectly translated into wow they all have different balancing issues. Blizzard gave some spells some known names so its possible robo-goblin if it ever became a class ability would just be a temp buff skill like in hots. Just because you want something doesn't mean its going to happen.
    They have all had their basic thematic retained;

    DK:
    Animate Dead: AoE raising of undead
    Army of the dead (WoW): AoE raising of the undead
    Death and Decay: ground targeted AoE that deals damage over time
    Death and Decay (WoW) ground targeted AoE that deals damage over time

    Monk:
    Storm Earth Fire: splits into three different elemental fighters
    Storm Earth Fire (WoW): splits into three different elemental fighters

    DH:
    Metamorphosis: transforms into a demon
    Metamorphosis: (WoW) transforms into a demon

    So, the Tinkers WC3 ultimate is piloting a mech. Why would the WoW ability deviate?

  12. #5892
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Where did I make that argument?



    Gazlowe, Mekkatorque, Gallywix, Madds, Nogginfogger, Razdunk, Boss Mira, Thermaplugg, Blackfuse, The Gob Squad, etc.



    Gazlowe uses the Tinker abilities from HotS in the Island Expeditions in WoW, and is the Tinker hero in HotS. How is that not proof?



    They have all had their basic thematic retained;

    DK:
    Animate Dead: AoE raising of undead
    Army of the dead (WoW): AoE raising of the undead
    Death and Decay: ground targeted AoE that deals damage over time
    Death and Decay (WoW) ground targeted AoE that deals damage over time

    Monk:
    Storm Earth Fire: splits into three different elemental fighters
    Storm Earth Fire (WoW): splits into three different elemental fighters

    DH:
    Metamorphosis: transforms into a demon
    Metamorphosis: (WoW) transforms into a demon

    So, the Tinkers ultimate is piloting a mech. Why would the WoW ability deviate?
    When you said because some goblins and gnomes use mechs that means its because they are tinkers.

    Gazlowe is officially an engineer and as a hero npc uses skills that normal player classes don't use much like Anduin and Gallywix. Hots isn't canon. Blizzard can take ideas from HoTS but that doesn't mean HotS is canon. Or are we going to get an expansion where we hang out with Overwatch and the Protoss?

    Yes they have the basic theme because of names. You aren't going to have a skill called landmine summon a massive dragon that heals you. That would be incredibly retarded. You're going to have a skill called landmine do some sort of explosion.

  13. #5893
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    When you said because some goblins and gnomes use mechs that means its because they are tinkers.
    No, I’m saying that in regards to Gazlowe. I’m pointing out the commonality of Goblins and Gnomes piloting mechs in WoW to show why such an ability would exist in a tech class largely run by Goblins and Gnomes.

    Gazlowe is officially an engineer and as a hero npc uses skills that normal player classes don't use much like Anduin and Gallywix. Hots isn't canon. Blizzard can take ideas from HoTS but that doesn't mean HotS is canon. Or are we going to get an expansion where we hang out with Overwatch and the Protoss?
    So if Blizzard is taking abilities from HotS and placing them in WoW, are those abilities now canon?

    As for the engineering label, considering that we have no idea what a technology class in WoW would be called (we just say Tinker out of convience), Gazlowe being currently labeled an engineer is inconsequential, since members of this class would be engineers.

    Yes they have the basic theme because of names. You aren't going to have a skill called landmine summon a massive dragon that heals you that would be incredibly retarded. Your going to have a skill called landmine do some sort of explosion.
    I have absolutely no idea what that comment has to do with what I stated above.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-04-19 at 12:27 AM.

  14. #5894
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Blizzard never outright states they’re bringing a class in the game, they tend to give hints leading up to the class’ release. We have such hints for the Tinker class, and they line up with hints for previous class releases.
    What were the hints for the death knight class, the monk class, and the demon hunter class? I'm curious.

    Considering that the Iron Horde was armed with Blackfuse Goblin tech, I would say yes.
    Except the overwhelming majority of the Iron Horde was wielding simple weapons (axes and the like) or using elemental magic. Sone used guns, but that's it. Actual "high-end technology" we only saw after the Legion took over with the Iron Reaver, because the rest? This famous "Blackfuse Goblin tech"? All we saw were steam engines.
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  15. #5895
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We can only consider Blizzard lazy if the evidence matched your premise.

    It doesn’t.
    Then we know the design is intentional to leave vehicular combat out of Class design.

    The “form” is a Goblin inside a mecha tank.
    Yes, visually it is. It Transforms into a mecha tank. I don't see how that equates to vehicular combat, since we know vehicles are types of mounts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  16. #5896
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The thing is Blizzard created an ability in WC3 for a hero unit that had the hero piloting a vehicle. In the TTRPG, there was the Steamwarrior class that also allowed you to control a vehicle into combat. In BFA, we got multiple NPC abilities that would facilitate such a class ability.
    WC3 is not WoW. Different games, different mechanics.
    TTRPG is not WoW. Different games, different mechanics.
    NPCs are not players. Different rules apply.
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  17. #5897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What were the hints for the death knight class, the monk class, and the demon hunter class? I'm curious.
    We’ve already been through this and you deny every single example regardless of the evidence. There’s really no point in going over it again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then we know the design is intentional to leave vehicular combat out of Class design.
    This despite the Island Expedition teams having multiple mech based abilities with level requirements....



    Yes, visually it is. It Transforms into a mecha tank. I don't see how that equates to vehicular combat, since we know vehicles are types of mounts.
    The Claw Pack transforms into a mech and the Goblin hops inside it. While inside it the Goblin has higher armor and increased movement speed. I don’t see how that doesn’t translate to vehicular combat.

  18. #5898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We’ve already been through this and you deny every single example regardless of the evidence. There’s really no point in going over it again.
    No. No, we have not. This is the first time I remember seeing you mention "class hints", so I'm curious what were the "hints" for the death knight, monk, and demon hunter classes.

    And by the way: unrelated stuff like "Naxxramas DKs" and "pandaren pets" are not hints of a new class. Otherwise the night elf dark rangers are hints of a dark ranger class. And the whole "music has power" thing in Shadowlands is a hint for the bard class.

    Show me tangible, conclusive hints, not vague mentions.
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  19. #5899
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    This despite the Island Expedition teams having multiple mech based abilities with level requirements....
    Were they in vehicles?

    Using mech abilities is fine if it's in a form. Nothing wrong with activating a mech form.

    As I said, vehicular combat isn't happening.

    The Claw Pack transforms into a mech and the Goblin hops inside it. While inside it the Goblin has higher armor and increased movement speed. I don’t see how that doesn’t translate to vehicular combat.
    Claw Packs don't even exist in WoW, how could any of this happen without a Claw Pack in WoW?

    Not even the Island Expedition NPCs use Claw Packs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  20. #5900
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Were they in vehicles? Or were they mech forms?
    I would consider a Goblin or Gnome inside a mech to also be inside a vehicle.

    NPCs also aren't bound to Player class mechanics. We have Death Knight NPCs who fight mounted too, whereas our DK's can not.
    Those NPC abilities had level requirements. Typically only class abilities have level requirements. To date, those abilities among the “Tinkers” in Island Expedition remain the only non-class NPC abilities that had that feature.



    Claw Packs don't even exist in WoW, how could any of this happen without a Claw Pack in WoW?
    Plenty of WC3 abilities didn’t exist in WoW until the class entered the game.

    Not even the Island Expedition NPCs use Claw Packs.
    See above.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No. No, we have not. This is the first time I remember seeing you mention "class hints", so I'm curious what were the "hints" for the death knight, monk, and demon hunter classes.
    Oh yes we have, and like I said I have no interest in going through this with you again.

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