If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Globi]

Murloc class, this is what we need

[username993720]

No. The stage of development at which the runemaster concept was at that point has absolutely zero relevance.

If you say so. I still think it shows a greater intention. Like the Pandaren as an Alliance race in TBC. which, according to an interview, was in development and not just a thought.

Because it's where our characters are. It's "always about Azeroth" because that's where we are. We're not going to see a story based on the "Planet 4546B" unless our characters somehow go there.

For some reason, every force in the universe wants to destroy that planet, specifically, above all else.

In other words, you're making stuff up that has never even been hinted at, in the lore.

Are you not aware of the Jailer's desire, as well as the Void Lords', to get to our world soul?

Again: no, they are not even "very close indeed".

I'm sorry, what? are you telling me that the Mag'har orcs of Draenor were much different from the demon-corrupted orcs of our timeline?
That's like saying Tauren and HM Tauren are very different from one another.

Any retroactive change to the continuity of a story is a retcon, regardless if it was a subtraction, addition or replacement.

"a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events."

"revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events."

No new interpretation has been made, really. Unless you thought of the Pandaren Brewmaster as something else. It just added the Mistweaver and Windwalker that are separate from that spec. The Brewmaster still remained the brew-chugging fighter that it was.

Again, you're basically saying "it's chinese, therefore it's a martial artist" which is incredibly stereotypical, not to mention fallacious.

I can see that. Can you think of anything else? (especially when we have Po and Chen in mind)

And the only reason one could think they were "martial artist monks" was solely because of the connection with the chinese culture. Not to mention that the pandaren's original background, depicted in the 2002's April Fools joke, says literally nothing about monks.

Everyone in their right mind thought about a martial artist. How can you not make that connection? I mean, did you think of anything else?

And the monk's martial arts and chi were not effective at all in fighting Garrosh and his "True Horde". The monk class' introduction has shown us that the class being added in the expansion doesn't have to be "effective against the BBEG". Hell, it's the same with the death knight. The DK's powers are not effective against the Lich King and the Scourge.

Again, they fit their expansions. Monks to Pandaria and Pandaren culture, and Death Knights to Northrend, the Lich King and the Scourge.

And that had nothing to do with the conversation we had.

Nothing I said actually affects your personal beliefs, so I'm not sure why you went out of your way to try and prove me wrong with further examples of your own beliefs.

If you want to believe the Night Elf Dark Rangers and Loyalists are gonna bring in Dark Rangers, that is your concern, and I am completely fine with that. But if you are using it as supporting evidence for Dark Rangers to counter my argument then of course I'm going to debunk your examples and those specific claims as not being real hints.

You can see Fantazma has a new thread about Dark Rangers being playable with his own ideas, and you don't see me in there debunking anything. Why? Because he clearly disclaimed it as his opinion, and I fully support expressions of opinion.

But if anyone starts going beyond that and pointing at examples in the game as if they are legitimate hints, then like most other people here who have pointed out, they're not really hints for or against any particular class. I honestly don't know why you were so stubborn to have to carry on defending your bogus argument of the Loyalist plotline, to the point you even forgot you originally called it a hint towards playable Dark Rangers

I don't see them furthering anything but a Dark Ranger class/spec. Do we really need Night elf Dark Rangers and Dark Wardens? we don't. It could have been anything else. Did we really need the Night Warrior if, as you say, it's going to end next patch? no, we don't. Tyrande could have just carried on as a simple, yet angry, PotM. You just don't read between the lines. To you they just seem like ordinary, mundane stuff. To me, they're a way of seeding something into the future (that is more than just the lame and short depiction they've been given and that you expect to be enough).

I think Dark Ranger is unlikely to happen anytime soon, despite being possible. Blizzard has shown little intent to pursue them as a playable class.

Chances are pretty high that we might not even see a new class next expansion. Hopefully we will get one that surprised our expectations, in a good way. I hope they change their stance on adding more 'borrowed power' class mechanics in the future.

I agree with you, to some extent, because i don't see a Dark Ranger/PotM/Warden expansion on the horizon.

Just, let me ask you this: What classes do you see fitting for the presumed Light/Void or Dragon Isles expansion?

[Ielenia]

If you say so. I still think it shows a greater intention. Like the Pandaren as an Alliance race in TBC. which, according to an interview, was in development and not just a thought.

You know there's a difference between saying "let's decide which of these three class concepts we'll work on for this expansion" and "we have decided to give this faction a different race instead of this one, so we're scrapping this for now." Which were literally the case for the runemaster for Wrath and the pandaren for TBC, respectively.

For some reason, every force in the universe wants to destroy that planet, specifically, above all else.

How do you know that? Have you heard about the stories that happened in other planets, such as "Planet 4546B", to know that "every force in the universe wants to destroy Azeroth, specifically, above all else"?

Are you not aware of the Jailer's desire, as well as the Void Lords', to get to our world soul?

You're still making up this idea that "cosmic forces are fighting each other, therefore the Jailer is fighting the Void Lords".

I'm sorry, what? are you telling me that the Mag'har orcs of Draenor were much different from the demon-corrupted orcs of our timeline?
That's like saying Tauren and HM Tauren are very different from one another.

The fact that descriptor exists ("demon-corrupted") further evidences what I said.

"a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events."

"revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events."

No new interpretation has been made, really. Unless you thought of the Pandaren Brewmaster as something else. It just added the Mistweaver and Windwalker that are separate from that spec. The Brewmaster still remained the brew-chugging fighter that it was.

False. A completely new interpretation was added. Chen Stormstout and the Pandaren Brewmaster have never been described as monks in the actual lore, be it in WC3 or in WoW, and the faux-background for the pandaren written for Blizzard's April Fools way back in 2002 also showed zero mention to monks.

I can see that. Can you think of anything else? (especially when we have Po and Chen in mind)

Again, you engage in more fallacies. This time, it's the "appeal to ignorance" fallacy: "I cannot see any other explanation, therefore my explanation is true." Also: Chen Stormstout is irrelevant, since he was never a monk until the Mists of Pandaria expansion came along.

Everyone in their right mind thought about a martial artist.

Are you calling those who didn't think Chen was a martial artist to be demented? To have "reduced mental capacity"?

How can you not make that connection? I mean, did you think of anything else?

I can "not make that connection" because I saw nothing about martial arts on the character's voice lines and animations. And because the character's bio in WC3 never called him a monk. I took Chen for what he was: a wanderer pandaren who loved to brew beer using exotic ingredients.

Again, they fit their expansions. Monks to Pandaria and Pandaren culture, and Death Knights to Northrend, the Lich King and the Scourge.

So if Blizzard decided to add some special property to runes that could work against the demons, like perhaps the idea that runemasters can shield their bodies against demonic possession/control, wouldn't that make them fit the theme of the Legion expansion? Not to mention that, again, "must fit the expansion's theme" doesn't really seem to be that big of a requirement, if runemaster was considered for the Wrath expansion.

[loras]

May i suggest the following class?
You'll forgive my rp-ish style of writing it down.

Magic has long been a vice of the elves, or so they say, but they've also been quite creative in their application of it.

Yet sometimes, it seems, an external perspective is needed to see the methods to their madness. A "lesser" perspective of a "lesser" race, specifically mine.

For when thinking of their magic we tend to to think of their extremes, of their world sundering sorcerors and of their brutish, nightmarish monstrosities, devoured body and soul by their powers they pursued.

Yet plenty of examples of more nuanced mixes of martial and magical prowess exist, and it is in those that i take great interest, for theese mail-clad Spellwarriors are far better adapted to the chaos of the battlefield than their robed brethren and more heavily armored counterparts alike.

For the ease of comparing them i shall limit this particular class of skillful magic users to the following categories:

1. The spellranger: These savvy fighters excell in ranged prowess and sorcery in equal measure, borrowing from many schools of magic in much the same way mages do, yet combining their magical might with skillful mastery of the bow these Spellwarriors are unpredictable foes as likely to blast you with arcane might and lightning, as they are to manipulate you with shadowy death and holy light.

Prominent examples of such Spellwarriors include, among others, the naga seawitches, the night elven priestesses of the moon, and the forsaken dark rangers.

2. The spellblade: These agile warriors dance along the battlefield, manipulating time and space to strike multiple times at once, move at impossible speeds or even be in several places at once, though their magic is far from being limited to only that. Illusions, time alteration and even minor forays into such powers as the void and the fel are among the possibilities for these masters of martial magic.

Prominent examples: Nightborne spellblades, some claim that orcish blademasters may have known techniques very much alike to these elves.

3. The spellbreaker: There is little more dreadful for a mage than to have their spellwork, nullified, stolen or reflected back at them. Various classes of fighters may have one or two ways to do such a thing, but the spellbreakers turn such a thing to an art. The nightmare of all things magical these living bullwarks can take an immense amount of punishment without issue and wield their oppents' might against them.

Prominent examples: Sin'dorei and Quel'dorei spellbreakers.

---

So far i have seen little enough indication that the elves realise the commonalities between these seemingly discrepant fighters, yet as all can be moderately heavy armored and mix their mastery of magic and martial with a careful amount of willpower and control.

As such i would argue that they stand out from i.e. the dreadful death knights and saintly paladins, slave to their torment and the light respectively. Likewise demon hunters, try as they might, are subject to the whims of the fel, while warriors' rage is legendary for its propensity to master them rather than the other way around. Finally the way shamans use the elements to enhance themselves has some minor overlap as well, yet again they serve and barter for their power whereas the Spellwarrior does not.

Indeed the only limits a spellwarrior acknowledges are those of his mastery on his own magic and martial prowess, which he hones to no end to reach ever greater heights, on his terms. Or hers.

I hope to find likewise minds to further catalogue and examine the elves of the present and the past so that we may properly utilise, expand and hone these potent skillsets to our own ends, for the past and the future alike are full of magic and war.

- Lothanides of Alterac

In summary:

Proposed new class: Spellwarrior
Armor type: chainmail
Weapons: Ranged (spellranger) // shield and sword*(spellbreaker) // Dual wield or two handed (spellblade)
Roles: dps (spellblade, spellranger), tank (spellbreaker)


Feedback, expansion and discussion appreciated.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...5#post53197345

[Triceron]

You just don't read between the lines. To you they just seem like ordinary, mundane stuff.

Theres a difference between reading it as a possibility, and doing what fantazma originally implied as _this is an obvious hint of it happening_. I never discredited a Nightwarrior class from happening, I always pointed out it being in the story isn't a hint that it would be playable.

There's reading between the lines, then there's reaching to correlate it to a future new class.

Just, let me ask you this: What classes do you see fitting for the presumed Light/Void or Dragon Isles expansion?

There is no such thing as a class that doesn't fit, in my opinion. I think it's very well possible to have anything fit, given enough connection to bridge it into the story.

I think Blizzard has chosen to stick to arbitrary conventions like having to fit a new class to a setting, even though they don't use this for Races. If we look at the Worgens and Goblin races or the Mag'har, Lightforged, Highmountains, Nightborne and Dark Irons of BFA, we can see they all had no real relation to the expansion theme.

The theme is unimportant to me, otherwise we may as well count out Tinkers and Runemasters and Bards because we know those don't have a strong expansion theme behind them. Same with Shadow Hunters or Wardens at this point.

But as I said, if they choose to do something like Class Skins the way we had Allied Races tied to BFA's general 'Faction War needs allies' reasoning, then really there shouldn't be any hard limit on what is possible as long as they can participate in a light vs shadow war. That is why I personally do not count out any possibility, even if Blizzard has a more specific choice in mind.

It'll be more about the greater conflict rather than actually having anything to do with Shadow and Light in particular, just as Worgens and Goblins had nothing specific to do against Deathwing or Old Gods.

And overall.... It comes down to what class(es) that Blizzard considers to be most marketable and bring back the most players. Classes are a marketting feature more than anything. If we are talking about why Demon Hunters are even playable, then it should be obvious they didn't get picked for the plethora of gameplay options or its unique themes or its potential to be added in the story even. Everything about the Demon Hunter was shoehorned into the game - and I say this as someone who argued that they should be made into a playable class. I just never thought Blizzard would steal so many mechanics from Warlocks and Monks to do so, all while only making 2 specs.

The Demon Hunter was all flash little substance. This is why Class Skins are what I expect Blizzard would go for.

My personal 'if I could make Blizzard add any class I want' wishlist would probably be a Dragonsworn class for Dragon Isles that uses all Dragon powers like Thanos with the infinity gauntlet, or maybe a Shadow Hunter class that is like the Diablo. I want to explore more concepts that are iconic/specific to Warcraft's setting, and I am a sucker for mythical creatures, so Dragons and Animal Loas would be what appeals to me most. Otherwise, Druid remains my preferred class of choice, which I've been happy with since Vanilla.

[Alanar]

Demon Hunter didn't

Dark Ranger has no chance

Ye, well.. I never cared for the Demon hunter myself, but I would be excited for things like warden, dark ranger, spelbreaker, seawitch or a runemaster. Not tinkers no, they are out for me.

[username993720]

You know there's a difference between saying "let's decide which of these three class concepts we'll work on for this expansion" and "we have decided to give this faction a different race instead of this one, so we're scrapping this for now." Which were literally the case for the runemaster for Wrath and the pandaren for TBC, respectively.

Yet, the Pandaren had concept art and shit for it. Plus, it was added later on, in MoP. The Runemaster just ended up integrated.

How do you know that? Have you heard about the stories that happened in other planets, such as "Planet 4546B", to know that "every force in the universe wants to destroy Azeroth, specifically, above all else"?

Now you're using the same thing you accuse me of: "what if". No one knows what if. But, at the very least, we know that Azeroth is sought after by the Void, Fel and Death.

You're still making up this idea that "cosmic forces are fighting each other, therefore the Jailer is fighting the Void Lords".

Every plane is fighting for supremacy, if you didn't know that.

The fact that descriptor exists ("demon-corrupted") further evidences what I said.

Just a bit more angry. If you've seen the Warcraft movie, you can see that Hellscream isn't much different than Blackhand. Even when Blackhand was given fel energy, he just became stronger and angrier.

False. A completely new interpretation was added. Chen Stormstout and the Pandaren Brewmaster have never been described as monks in the actual lore, be it in WC3 or in WoW, and the faux-background for the pandaren written for Blizzard's April Fools way back in 2002 also showed zero mention to monks.

So, your whole view on him changed afterwards?
What did you think would have happened when the Brewmaster got added? a drinking class?

Again, you engage in more fallacies. This time, it's the "appeal to ignorance" fallacy: "I cannot see any other explanation, therefore my explanation is true." Also: Chen Stormstout is irrelevant, since he was never a monk until the Mists of Pandaria expansion came along.

Provide another option, please.

"Pandaren are formidable monks, following their philosophies to the letter and perfecting their martial arts as they see fit" - Alliance & Horde Compendium, 74-75.

Are you calling those who didn't think Chen was a martial artist to be demented? To have "reduced mental capacity"?

I'm saying that it's pretty obvious by the fact that the unit wears a Kung Fu uniform.

I can "not make that connection" because I saw nothing about martial arts on the character's voice lines and animations. And because the character's bio in WC3 never called him a monk. I took Chen for what he was: a wanderer pandaren who loved to brew beer using exotic ingredients.

Really? nothing about his aesthetics and looks screamed kung fu panda to you?

So if Blizzard decided to add some special property to runes that could work against the demons, like perhaps the idea that runemasters can shield their bodies against demonic possession/control, wouldn't that make them fit the theme of the Legion expansion? Not to mention that, again, "must fit the expansion's theme" doesn't really seem to be that big of a requirement, if runemaster was considered for the Wrath expansion.

Arcane magic, already, does that. Demon Hunter's tattoos are a testament to that.

As for the Runemaster, i thought you considered it fitting, somehow, didn't you?

Theres a difference between reading it as a possibility, and doing what fantazma originally implied as _this is an obvious hint of it happening_. I never discredited a Nightwarrior class from happening, I always pointed out it being in the story isn't a hint that it would be playable.

There's reading between the lines, then there's reaching to correlate it to a future new class.

You can't just take everything as a possibility. Otherwise, we'd be here discussing Murlocs. You have to distinguish between seriously possible ones that are being seeded into the narrative for a reason and non-serious ones, for that matter. What makes them a hint, and not just a possibility, is the fact that they make you think as to why they are there. What purpose do they serve, and why now. For example, Store Mounts seem kinda arbitrary and fun, right? well, we've seen how they turned out to hint at future expansions, like the Sylverian Dreamweaver, for example. To the naked eye, they don't seem like much. To the keen observer, they say a lot. I believe i'm more wrong about the time of them happening, rather than the fact that they will happen.

There is no such thing as a class that doesn't fit, in my opinion. I think it's very well possible to have anything fit, given enough connection to bridge it into the story.

I think Blizzard has chosen to stick to arbitrary conventions like having to fit a new class to a setting, even though they don't use this for Races. If we look at the Worgens and Goblin races or the Mag'har, Lightforged, Highmountains, Nightborne and Dark Irons of BFA, we can see they all had no real relation to the expansion theme.

The theme is unimportant to me, otherwise we may as well count out Tinkers and Runemasters and Bards because we know those don't have a strong expansion theme behind them. Same with Shadow Hunters or Wardens at this point.

But as I said, if they choose to do something like Class Skins the way we had Allied Races tied to BFA's general 'Faction War needs allies' reasoning, then really there shouldn't be any hard limit on what is possible as long as they can participate in a light vs shadow war. That is why I personally do not count out any possibility, even if Blizzard has a more specific choice in mind.

It'll be more about the greater conflict rather than actually having anything to do with Shadow and Light in particular, just as Worgens and Goblins had nothing specific to do against Deathwing or Old Gods.

And overall.... It comes down to what class(es) that Blizzard considers to be most marketable and bring back the most players. Classes are a marketting feature more than anything. If we are talking about why Demon Hunters are even playable, then it should be obvious they didn't get picked for the plethora of gameplay options or its unique themes or its potential to be added in the story even. Everything about the Demon Hunter was shoehorned into the game - and I say this as someone who argued that they should be made into a playable class. I just never thought Blizzard would steal so many mechanics from Warlocks and Monks to do so, all while only making 2 specs.

The Demon Hunter was all flash little substance. This is why Class Skins are what I expect Blizzard would go for.

My personal 'if I could make Blizzard add any class I want' wishlist would probably be a Dragonsworn class for Dragon Isles that uses all Dragon powers like Thanos with the infinity gauntlet, or maybe a Shadow Hunter class that is like the Diablo. I want to explore more concepts that are iconic/specific to Warcraft's setting, and I am a sucker for mythical creatures, so Dragons and Animal Loas would be what appeals to me most. Otherwise, Druid remains my preferred class of choice, which I've been happy with since Vanilla.

Okay. Not what you, necessarily, want. But, what you think is most probable to be added. And try using the WC3 Heroes frame, if you can.

[Ielenia]

Yet, the Pandaren had concept art and shit for it. Plus, it was added later on, in MoP. The Runemaster just ended up integrated.

The Pandaren had "concept art and shit" because it was a race in later development stages. The pandaren and runemaster situations are not comparable here because they're different situations.

Now you're using the same thing you accuse me of: "what if". No one knows what if. But, at the very least, we know that Azeroth is sought after by the Void, Fel and Death.

I'm not, though. You were the one who claimed omniscience by stating that "every force in the universe and beyond wants Azeroth above everything", and to know that, one has to know what is going on in the whole REST of the universe. Which you don't. The story being told in the game and books are but a fraction of what is going on in the other corners of the universe.

Every plane is fighting for supremacy, if you didn't know that.

It doesn't mean the Jailer is opposing the void lords. There is the option that they could be in league. I haven't seen the Jailer make a single mention regarding the void and the Void Lords at all, nor have I seen his forces fighting the void.

Just a bit more angry. If you've seen the Warcraft movie, you can see that Hellscream isn't much different than Blackhand. Even when Blackhand was given fel energy, he just became stronger and angrier.

The movie is non-canon to the Warcraft lore. And and the demon blood did not make the orcs "just a bit more angry": "The demon blood that most of the orcs imbibed back on Draenor increased their natural bloodlust a hundredfold."

What did you think would have happened when the Brewmaster got added? a drinking class?

I honestly would doubt a "brewmaster" class would be added, but if it was, it would be an alchemy-based class, in my opinion.

Provide another option, please.

Why should I, if Blizzard's own April Fools for the pandaren in 2002 already gave plenty?

I'm saying that it's pretty obvious by the fact that the unit wears a Kung Fu uniform.

A "kung fu uniform", a.k.a. tang suit, that was also the common clothes for the aristocracy and nobles back in the Qing Dynasty, but later in modern times got adopted by the common folk as well and became part of the chinese pop culture?

Really? nothing about his aesthetics and looks screamed kung fu panda to you?

How could the Warcraft 3 unit possibly give "Kung Fu Panda" vibes, if the WC3 unit was released in 2003, but the Kung Fu Panda movie was released FIVE YEARS LATER, in 2008?

Arcane magic, already, does that. Demon Hunter's tattoos are a testament to that.

Which could mean the runemasters could be a melee class with arcane-based powers granted by their runes, or at least one of their specs could.

As for the Runemaster, i thought you considered it fitting, somehow, didn't you?

I never said that. I said they could be made to fit, if it "fitting" was an issue.

You can't just take everything as a possibility. Otherwise, we'd be here discussing Murlocs.

You do know that everything is a possibility. Yes, even murlocs. Everything is a possibility unless Blizzard outright, directly and unambiguously says "no".

[Triceron]

Okay. Not what you, necessarily, want. But, what you think is most probable to be added. And try using the WC3 Heroes frame, if you can.

First it would be no new class at all. Blizzard goes with another set of Borrowed Power mechanics like Covenants. This is dependant on how successful they internally feel the system is, and if it's a strong enough feature to keep moving forward

Then it would be Class Skins, to add in any number of secondary/supporting class concepts that may not be deserving of their own class or own expansion. It's a lowest common denominator move, has wide appeal like Allied Races. Also would be dependant on what classes they consider saving for the future, and what they want to present as a class skin. They can add this in practically any setting, just have to fit it into the story.

Then Tinker and Dragonsworn, the two concepts that I think Blizzard has the most likely chance of adding in the near future. Dragon Isles and the possibility of Undermine/Karesh as settings is still relative and valid to these class concepts. These are two classes which I feel can be broadly explored as well, and not simply a cultural or racial niche. If we are talking about Goblin amd Gnome only Tinker then it separately on a lower tier. I don't think they will follow up Demon Hunters with another niche class, especially not after having added so many Allied Races.

Shadow Hunter, Dark Ranger and Necromancer would have ranked higher if not for relevant settings having been presented in game. Zandalar and Shadowlands may not be the only Troll and Undead settings to add these classes, but it makes it less plausible for yet another Troll and Undead setting to appear in the near future, kinda like expecting another Demon setting right after Legion.

Then I would place Bard at the last, not because it is unlikely but rather because we have nothing to formally predict or place it since no formal Bard class exists in the game. We don't know what story or setting Blizzard would make to fit it, so it'd be a wild guess. This doesn't mean I'm putting it last so it's the least likely, but it's last because we ack information on what Blizzard would do with it in the game. Guesses with no information rooted in the game go last, in my book.

And you may be curious - why no Shadows vs Light classes? Because that is not very likely going to be the next expansion, it's something likely further down. We are likely exploring something else in between, and my list reflects what is most plausible in the here and now. It is unlikely that Shadows v Light would get a new class if we get one next expansion. so I don't bother guessing for it yet.

And in the case that we go yet another expansion without a new class, it actually leans towards Blizzard moving away from new classes altogether. As far as my personal ranking goes, Shadows and Light is too far away in time to properly predict what Blizzard intends to do.

And as a caveat - I am answering your question of what I personally think of the next classes. This isn't something I'm claiming to be universally accepted, this is a list that I consider to be flexible and adaptable to all relevant lore information we get. So if Naga get hinted at joining next expansion, Sea Witch could jump straight to the next possible class. Or if Shadow v Light really is the next expo hinted at, then I'd consider those relevant classes to be much higher.

[username993720]

The Pandaren had "concept art and shit" because it was a race in later development stages. The pandaren and runemaster situations are not comparable here because they're different situations.

How so?

I'm not, though. You were the one who claimed omniscience by stating that "every force in the universe and beyond wants Azeroth above everything", and to know that, one has to know what is going on in the whole REST of the universe. Which you don't. The story being told in the game and books are but a fraction of what is going on in the other corners of the universe.

Even if we travel to other worlds, or we get information about them, they all relate to Azeroth and our storyline, in the end of the day.

It doesn't mean the Jailer is opposing the void lords. There is the option that they could be in league. I haven't seen the Jailer make a single mention regarding the void and the Void Lords at all, nor have I seen his forces fighting the void.

Not him, specifically. But, Death. Which, he represents. What reason would he have to claim the soul of Azeroth? to do it for the Void Lords? Heck, Sylvanas' comic, specifically, depicted how the Void views Sylvanas and who she serves as the true enemy. They're, clearly, in a sort of rivalry.

The movie is non-canon to the Warcraft lore. And and the demon blood did not make the orcs "just a bit more angry": "The demon blood that most of the orcs imbibed back on Draenor increased their natural bloodlust a hundredfold."

Not canon, yet the chronicles depicts Black Hand as he is in the movie?

Sounds a bit exaggerated, but okay.

I honestly would doubt a "brewmaster" class would be added, but if it was, it would be an alchemy-based class, in my opinion.

It got added, as part of the Monk.
You, really, think it would have been a fightless class? You'd, actually, compare it to the Alchemist Hero unit?

Why should I, if Blizzard's own April Fools for the pandaren in 2002 already gave plenty?

Did you, actually, look at the link you provided?
A race that is based on the Feral Pandaren and not the Brewmaster. Units: Shodo-Pan, Wardancer, Pikeman, Geomancer. No mention of the Monk or the Brewmaster. Not to mention that the pictures there depict more of a Blademaster than a Bamboo/Keg wielding Monk.

A "kung fu uniform", a.k.a. tang suit, that was also the common clothes for the aristocracy and nobles back in the Qing Dynasty, but later in modern times got adopted by the common folk as well and became part of the chinese pop culture?

More like this:


And, i don't question its origins. I'm acknowledging it is associated with Kung Fu.

How could the Warcraft 3 unit possibly give "Kung Fu Panda" vibes, if the WC3 unit was released in 2003, but the Kung Fu Panda movie was released FIVE YEARS LATER, in 2008?

I mean in retrospect. There's a reason why there's a clear, distinct archetype of a Panda being used to portray Kung Fu.

Which could mean the runemasters could be a melee class with arcane-based powers granted by their runes, or at least one of their specs could.

A good suggestion.

I never said that. I said they could be made to fit, if it "fitting" was an issue.

I meant Wrath.

You do know that everything is a possibility. Yes, even murlocs. Everything is a possibility unless Blizzard outright, directly and unambiguously says "no".

That's right. But, we need to know what to take seriously and what not.

Dragon Isles and the possibility of Undermine/Karesh as settings is still relative and valid to these class concepts.

I know Undermine didn't feature yet, and it is a possible place to visit. But, what exactly is hinting at that being the main area for an expansion anytime soon?

[Ielenia]

How so?

I've already explained "how so" two posts ago. If you didn't care to read it, that's not my problem.

Even if we travel to other worlds, or we get information about them, they all relate to Azeroth and our storyline, in the end of the day.

Except the relation toward Azeroth and our storyline is the reason we travel to said world. The whole formula of WoW's story telling is having us, the heroes, react to a threat that comes after us, not us preemptively going to unrelated places to snuff out possible future maybe-threats. In other words: we are not going to "planet 4546B" unless something in that planet threatens ours.

Not him, specifically. But, Death. Which, he represents. What reason would he have to claim the soul of Azeroth?

Once again, you engage in the "appeal to ignorance" fallacy: "I see no other explanation, therefore my explanation is the right one". Ever thought that maybe the Jailer might want the power of Azeroth's unborn Titan to use its power against his brethren who imprisoned him in the Maw? After all, it's still one against three, so he needs more power than the normally would have access to.

Not canon, yet the chronicles depicts Black Hand as he is in the movie?

It happens to be a coincidence. Correlation.

It got added, as part of the Monk.
You, really, think it would have been a fightless class? You'd, actually, compare it to the Alchemist Hero unit?

You said "brewmaster", therefore I imagined the unit as it was represented in Warcraft 3. And no, I'm not comparing it to the Warcraft 3 Goblin Alchemist hero. I never made that comparison. I said "alchemy-based class", not "Warcraft 3 Goblin Alchemist-based class"

Did you, actually, look at the link you provided?
A race that is based on the Feral Pandaren and not the Brewmaster. Units: Shodo-Pan, Wardancer, Pikeman, Geomancer. No mention of the Monk or the Brewmaster. Not to mention that the pictures there depict more of a Blademaster than a Bamboo/Keg wielding Monk.

And a complete lack of monk attributes or descriptions.

More like this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/23...55bcfb4fbc.jpg
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...0213974466.jpg
And, i don't question its origins. I'm acknowledging it is associated with Kung Fu.

... You do know Bruce Lee is wearing a tang suit there, right? Also, the Chen image there is a fanart piece made in 2012. The same year that the Mists of Pandaria expansion was released.

I mean in retrospect. There's a reason why there's a clear, distinct archetype of a Panda being used to portray Kung Fu.

Except it's not portraying kung fu at all. The only association to kung fu is the fact it's a panda and he has chinese clothing. That is incredibly stereotypical in a negative way.

I meant Wrath.

The exact same answer still stands.

That's right. But, we need to know what to take seriously and what not.

That is up to your own personal options and biases. You might think a murloc race idea is not worth taking seriously, but some might.

[Triceron]

I know Undermine didn't feature yet, and it is a possible place to visit. But, what exactly is hinting at that being the main area for an expansion anytime soon?

Tinker and Dragonsworn are on top by default, because the competition has been knocked down a peg from us having BFA's Troll/Islands and Shadowlands Death themed settings recently. And if I hadn't mentioned before, the ones I'm pointing out here are examples of classes with a fair amount of demand/popularity/community presence. Bard would be here if it weren't for the complete lack of expansion setting theme to predict where they stand. I consider Bards a wildcard.

With us exiting Shadowlands, the next expansion could take place anywhere, which brings Undermine back into relevancy. Undermine hasn't actually been hinted at, rather it's brought to the forefront by default. It's a place we know exists in lore since Cata and has been left unexplored.

If we were talking End of BFA, we had a pretty strong idea that Shadowlands could be explored due to Sylvanas.
We're at a point where most of the current Sylvanas plot points have been addressed, leaving it wide open for any new adventure next expansion.

I expect we may have a better idea of the next expansion setting as we get closer to the end of Shadowlands. Of course, not to the point where its obvious, but maybe to a point where we aren't just blindly guessing.

[FossilFree]

I agree, with another added problem: it's borrowed power, so it will go away in 2 years, while a new class would need to be iterated to the end of the game.

I'm starting to think that Covenant powers are just a test ground, and what it works would be added to some classes (talent or baseline) or used for new classes.

Borrowed power sucks. I hate this idea of everything we work for just going away when a new expansion comes out. The Covenant stuff would have been so much cooler if they skinned the whole class and made it a permanent option, rather than just adding temporary abilities. For example, like Night Fae paladins getting a "green fire" thing where all their abilities changed to the blue Night Fae look instead of gold (and of course, adding Night Elf paladins too).

[Revamp Man]

i think not making an azerite necklace and power based class would be a waste
you have all the necessary abilities and random generic buffs that could be talents

[username993720]

I've already explained "how so" two posts ago. If you didn't care to read it, that's not my problem.

It's, almost, the same type of addition. One's a class, the other a race. One's got delayed till 8 years later, the other got integrated right away. One's got concept art and stuff, the other nothing that we know of. Kind of showing you the prominence the Runemaster had.

Except the relation toward Azeroth and our storyline is the reason we travel to said world. The whole formula of WoW's story telling is having us, the heroes, react to a threat that comes after us, not us preemptively going to unrelated places to snuff out possible future maybe-threats. In other words: we are not going to "planet 4546B" unless something in that planet threatens ours.

We didn't go to all planets. Take Fyzandi, for example, or the Aldrachi. They were, clearly, used to tie in the Night Warrior and the Warglaives to our current storyline. They have no relevancy on their own.

Once again, you engage in the "appeal to ignorance" fallacy: "I see no other explanation, therefore my explanation is the right one". Ever thought that maybe the Jailer might want the power of Azeroth's unborn Titan to use its power against his brethren who imprisoned him in the Maw? After all, it's still one against three, so he needs more power than the normally would have access to.

Did you think it is, perhaps, the First Ones' secrets he's looking for to do it?

"Death was never meant to be chained" - patch 9.1, Korthia. The whole patch is about him getting the seals and, apparently, fucking up Oribos.

It happens to be a coincidence. Correlation.

A coincidence. How convenient.

You said "brewmaster", therefore I imagined the unit as it was represented in Warcraft 3. And no, I'm not comparing it to the Warcraft 3 Goblin Alchemist hero. I never made that comparison. I said "alchemy-based class", not "Warcraft 3 Goblin Alchemist-based class"

The Warcraft 3 unit didn't just make and drink brews. it, also, fought in melee (Drunken Brawler; Earth, Storm and Fire).

Alchemy-based class and a class called an Alchemist aren't interchangeable?

And a complete lack of monk attributes or descriptions.

Because it was never based on the Brewmaster? I thought you were trying to link the unit to the Monk class.

... You do know Bruce Lee is wearing a tang suit there, right? Also, the Chen image there is a fanart piece made in 2012. The same year that the Mists of Pandaria expansion was released.

What does it matter how it's called?
The Brewmaster wore the same outfit. It doesn't matter if i took a fanart picture (due to the low quality of WC3 pictures).

Except it's not portraying kung fu at all. The only association to kung fu is the fact it's a panda and he has chinese clothing. That is incredibly stereotypical in a negative way.

-_-

WoW has, always, been stereotypical. Its races are based on real life ethnicities and cultures. To say the Tauren, for example, are not native american-based because i want to be progressive and non-inclusive, is to be hypocritical.

The exact same answer still stands.

But, you considered it fitting of the expansion without the need to make any adjustments, didn't you?

That is up to your own personal options and biases. You might think a murloc race idea is not worth taking seriously, but some might.

I mean hints. Adding a Murkalot or a Murkadin pet and seeing it as a hint, compared to other profound hints, would be kinda naive.

Tinker and Dragonsworn are on top by default, because the competition has been knocked down a peg from us having BFA's Troll/Islands and Shadowlands Death themed settings recently. And if I hadn't mentioned before, the ones I'm pointing out here are examples of classes with a fair amount of demand/popularity/community presence. Bard would be here if it weren't for the complete lack of expansion setting theme to predict where they stand. I consider Bards a wildcard.

With us exiting Shadowlands, the next expansion could take place anywhere, which brings Undermine back into relevancy. Undermine hasn't actually been hinted at, rather it's brought to the forefront by default. It's a place we know exists in lore since Cata and has been left unexplored.

If we were talking End of BFA, we had a pretty strong idea that Shadowlands could be explored due to Sylvanas.
We're at a point where most of the current Sylvanas plot points have been addressed, leaving it wide open for any new adventure next expansion.

I expect we may have a better idea of the next expansion setting as we get closer to the end of Shadowlands. Of course, not to the point where its obvious, but maybe to a point where we aren't just blindly guessing.

So, basically, your own personal opinion. Got it. And i'm biased...

What makes Undermine any more likely than other places we haven't been to, that weren't hinted at, like Plunder Isle, Tel'abim, Darkspear Islands, Zul'dare, Mak'aru, Gishan Caverns, Balor, Northern Islands, Hiji, Emerald Dream and others?
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-in-the-future

The popularity of the class?
Here is a video showing that a Blademaster is the most probable class, according to popularity in other games:


You're, basically, feeding into Teriz's mindset.

Dark Rangers, Priestess of the Moon, Wardens, Blademasters and Shadow Hunters cannot appear again because they, already, did in previous expansions? How about we scrap Tinker off the list because it featured in BfA? from Mekkatorque being a boss, to the Motherlode Dunegon, to Mechagon as an entire area, to the Island Expedition team, to Gallywix's robot suit. Seems kinda pointless to repeat all that, if you ask me (being cynical). Do you see the problem? you, immediately, dismiss others based on previous appearances, yet you do not apply it to the Tinker due to personal preferences.

[Triceron]

So, basically, your own personal opinion. Got it. And i'm biased...

I never said you were biased.

What makes Undermine any more likely than other places we haven't been to, that weren't hinted at, like Plunder Isle, Tel'abim, Darkspear Islands, Zul'dare, Mak'aru, Gishan Caverns, Balor, Northern Islands, Hiji, Emerald Dream and others?

I don't consider there many popular classes to associate with either locations you mentioned, at least not enough to warrant a full expansion out of.

Emerald Dream expansion - what class do people want out of this that we don't already have? We have Druids already.

Zul'dare and Darkspear Isles are not an ideal expansion location, they're fairly tertiary. Maybe as a part of a collective 'South Seas' expansion, but even then I don't consider it highly probable.

Again, you asked me what my opinion is. If you are not interested in discussion and only wish to argue, please stop wasting my time.

The popularity of the class?
Here is a video showing that a Blademaster is the most probable class, according to popularity in other games:

Okay, thanks for sharing.

There's nothing really available in the lore that leads me to believe Blizzard wants them playable right now, and if they did then it's through an expansion that I can't predict through any means of process of elimination. Again, I'm not aiming to be right in predicting the next class, I'm just regarding my own chances of possibilities based on what we actually know about the current lore. It's not just about popularity or just about the lore, it's about the full package. You asked what I think is most probable not most popular.

You're, basically, feeding into Teriz's mindset.

I mean, this is just your opinion. I have no reason to argue with you about sharing anyone's mindset, because I speak for myself and not on behalf of anyone else.

Dark Rangers, Priestess of the Moon, Wardens, Blademasters and Shadow Hunters cannot appear again

Stop projecting, my friend. You are projecting. I warn you the last time, otherwise I will flag you for flamebaiting.

Read my post again clearly. I choose my words very carefully, and I never discount a possibility. So no, I never say any class _can't appear_. And even if I did, it would be my opinion, and I don't need to explain my opinion to you. You asked for my opinion, and I offered it with good intentions. Do not go down this route if you are not interested in discussion and only interested in arguing

I am calling you out for being dishonest. You want to argue with yourself, while using me as your scapegoat. I will have none of your bullshit. You have been warned.

You know my position, so you need to take another stance and put yourself in my shoes and understand that my personal rankings aren't a method to predict every possibility, it's just my own feelings of what I think Blizzard could do with new classes. I'm fine if you don't agree with my list, but please don't twist my reply into an argument I have not made.

You ASKED me what classes I think are the most probable to be added. I give you an answer and suddenly you're saying I'm dismissing all other options?

Do not go down this route.

[Teriz]

You're, basically, feeding into Teriz's mindset.

What the heck is that?

[username993720]

I don't consider there many popular classes to associate with either locations you mentioned, at least not enough to warrant a full expansion out of.

Emerald Dream expansion - what class do people want out of this that we don't already have? We have Druids already.

Zul'dare and Darkspear Isles are not an ideal expansion location, they're fairly tertiary. Maybe as a part of a collective 'South Seas' expansion, but even then I don't consider it highly probable.

Again, you asked me what my opinion is. If you are not interested in discussion and only wish to argue, please stop wasting my time.

These are places we haven't been to, fully or completely. They have about as much chance as your Undermine. Plus, who would have thought the Broken Isles could serve as an entire 'continent' for an expansion? Who would have thought Shadowlands is more than just a grey version of Azeroth? Pandaria? Draenor? yea... saying these places are unlikely because you can't imagine them being expanded to more than what you know about them is kinda narrow-minded.

Okay, thanks for sharing.

There's nothing really available in the lore that leads me to believe Blizzard wants them playable right now, and if they did then it's through an expansion that I can't predict through any means of process of elimination. Again, I'm not aiming to be right in predicting the next class, I'm just regarding my own chances of possibilities based on what we actually know about the current lore. It's not just about popularity or just about the lore, it's about the full package. You asked what I think is most probable not most popular.

Do i need to quote you?

"And if I hadn't mentioned before, the ones I'm pointing out here are examples of classes with a fair amount of demand/popularity/community presence."

I mean, this is just your opinion. I have no reason to argue with you about sharing anyone's mindset, because I speak for myself and not on behalf of anyone else.

That's weird. Because you argue with him and Sygfreyd and, at the end of the day, you support their ideas.

Stop projecting, my friend. You are projecting. I warn you the last time, otherwise I will flag you for flamebaiting.

Read my post again clearly. I choose my words very carefully, and I never discount a possibility. So no, I never say any class _can't appear_. And even if I did, it would be my opinion, and I don't need to explain my opinion to you. You asked for my opinion, and I offered it with good intentions. Do not go down this route if you are not interested in discussion and only interested in arguing

I am calling you out for being dishonest. You want to argue with yourself, while using me as your scapegoat. I will have none of your bullshit. You have been warned.

You know my position, so you need to take another stance and put yourself in my shoes and understand that my personal rankings aren't a method to predict every possibility, it's just my own feelings of what I think Blizzard could do with new classes. I'm fine if you don't agree with my list, but please don't twist my reply into an argument I have not made.

You ASKED me what classes I think are the most probable to be added. I give you an answer and suddenly you're saying I'm dismissing all other options?

Do not go down this route.

This discussion is over. I will not be threatened. I was in this very same situation with a guy who couldn't win, so he used the ban tool to get rid of competition and declare himself the winner. I see it as nothing but a dishonorable way of conduct.

[Teriz]

These are places we haven't been to, fully or completely. They have about as much chance as your Undermine. Plus, who would have thought the Broken Isles could serve as an entire 'continent' for an expansion? Who would have thought Shadowlands is more than just a grey version of Azeroth? Pandaria? Draenor? yea... saying these places are unlikely because you can't imagine them being expanded to more than what you know about them is kinda narrow-minded.

The problem with an expansion based on Darkspear Isles and/or Zul'dare is that one is a Troll Island, and the other belongs to Kul'tiras. That sounds like a redux of BFA, since we've already extensively dealt with a continent/island controlled by trolls, and obviously we dealt with Kul'tiras. I doubt Blizzard and the player community would want to do either again in a future expansion.

[Triceron]

These are places we haven't been to, fully or completely. They have about as much chance as your Undermine. Plus, who would have thought the Broken Isles could serve as an entire 'continent' for an expansion? Who would have thought Shadowlands is more than just a grey version of Azeroth? Pandaria? Draenor? yea... saying these places are unlikely because you can't imagine them being expanded to more than what you know about them is kinda narrow-minded.

Exactly. Who would have thought it?

I addressed what I consider to be the most probable classes. I was not attempting to make a prediction for a new class or new expansion.

Probabillity isn't a prediction, its a consideration of chances. Theres a difference between regarding that there is a high possibility of rolling a 7 when rolling 2D6 (probability) and simply predicting you will roll a 7 (opinion). I have been outlining that I consider Tinkers and Dragonsworn to be the most probable outcome, but I am not pointing at either of these as necessarily having to be the next class. It's just a most probably scenario. One also has to consider that an expansion like Warlords of Draenor exists outside of any means of prediction through probability. Probability is not meant to predict, it's meant to outline the most likely outcome based on information we have available to us.

I don't regard Zul Dare as highly probable because there is little information on Zul Dare to factor towards a higher probability.
And what do we know of their connections to Shadow Hunters or other classes? Nothing. There's not enough information for me to calculate its probability any higher than 50/50; equivalent of a wild guess.

Undermine has a direct connection because we have seen Kezan in the Goblin starter zone, and we have unfinished business with a former Goblin racial leader who supported the BFA major conflict. Gallywix finding Azerite sparked Sylvanas' war, and since then Gallywix has fled to an undisclosed location. Undermine is relevant as a potential location by association, and by default because it is one of the few Azeroth locations we know of with any connection to the central plot at all; the other major one being Dragon Isles.

The other examples you gave are just locations that I don't deem as _most probable_, they're simply neutrally probable. A standard 50/50 with no indication for or against. Not a 0% as you seemed to imply it to be.

Do i need to quote you?

"And if I hadn't mentioned before, the ones I'm pointing out here are examples of classes with a fair amount of demand/popularity/community presence."

You asked what classes I considered most probable. I consider demand and popularity a factor in probability, since Blizzard is a business interested in using new classes to market a new expansion. Tinker has a keen following behind its concept, where even youtubers freely discuss their potential. A class of similar origin and theme like Alchemist doesn't share the same level of acknowledgement as the Tinker, and I wouldn't consider it equally probable just on the basis of origin and setting alone.

Blademaster being popular is still not very probable because Blizzard has not involved any significant Blademaster character in the current plot. I can't predict whether Samuro will ever show up in the narrative, and without any information leading towards any particular story or setting to fit a Blademaster, I do not consider a Blademaster to be a 'most probable class' that Blizzard would add to the game. Popularity doesn't really lend itself to higher probability if we're still wildly guessing how Blizzard will incorporate this class into the game. Wild guesses are still a 50/50 in my books.

That's weird. Because you argue with him and Sygfreyd and, at the end of the day, you support their ideas.

I also argue with you, and support your ideas. Have you not realized this?

I've never argued against your beliefs and have only ever argued against your claim that Dark Rangers were actively hinted at through cinematics and the Night Elf/Loyalists, which you have since agreed that you would call them a 'hint at a possibility' instead. I don't argue against Sygfreyd believing that Blademasters are Warriors, only his assertion that they are the same thing *because of* Blademaster NPCs being classified as Arms Warriors in the Garrison or as Warrior Trainers. I can argue that those examples would not reflect a Player class, just as I've noted that Sylvanas being in a cinematic does not reflect a Player class.

At the end of the day, I'm fine with opinions. I'm not fine with false claims that are intended to be regarded objectively. I am fine with someone interpretting a fact differently, as long as we can agree that it is a subjective opinion. Something like Sygfreyd arguing that Blademasters are Warriors went beyond a subjective interpretation; he tried to prove it as a fact that everyone should already be regarding. Same with how Fantazma regarded characters like Illidan and Sylvanas in the cinematics relating to a playable class; there is no connection that we can regard as an objective fact; it's only a subjective interpretation and there's no reason to make a statement out of it as if everyone else should regard that opinion as a fact.

This discussion is over. I will not be threatened. I was in this very same situation with a guy who couldn't win, so he used the ban tool to get rid of competition and declare himself the winner. I see it as nothing but a dishonorable way of conduct.

It has nothing to do with winning or losing, it has to do with you being outright disrespectful by twisting my argument to imply the opposite of what I said. You have been arguing in bad faith, and you need to recognize that you are accountable for your own actions. You also have a track record for mixing up your own arguments with other people. Just look at your opening statement in the previous post - I have never called you biased and you implied that I had. I can't tell if you're confusing me for someone else, and it makes it irritating trying to figure out who your argument is actually directed at.

You specifically asked for what I consider most probable class that sticks to Warcraft 3. There was absolutely no reason for you to claim that I was dismissing classes, or imply that I said they can't be made. It seems clear to me you were asking a loaded question with the intention attacking any response I give you.

I don't care if you want to play the victim, I will not be bullied by your antics. It's obvious to me you simply want to argue in bad faith. Find another scapegoat for your bullshit.