1. #6741
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    Only that we never ever saw Bard as a combat oriented class outside of an aprils fools day joke and Dragon Knights as a concept don't even exist in the Warcraft Setting.
    To be honest, do we really need to see it for it to be a legitimate option?

    I mean, we never saw a Priest that used Shadow magic before WoW. We never had Paladins capable of using Necromancy as we do in Shadowlands. We never seen a Mage capable of turning into a Skeleton Mage to boost their power. We'd never seen Druids turn into flaming kitty form before Firelands.

    If we're talking about something that hasn't existed in Warcraft yet, do we really have to assume Blizzard is unable to create it? That's exactly how we got Lightforged, Void Elves, Nightborne and AU Mag'har.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  2. #6742
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    like the crap warrior artifacts, cannot fathom how they prefer that shit arms sword instead of Broxxigar axe
    Broxxigar's axe would have been awesome! Especially in an expansion where Sargeras made an appearance. We even had taeshalach which was forged from a piece of Sargeras' own sword, so Broxxigar's axe wouldn't have been problematic to add. Missed opportunity for sure.

  3. #6743
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Only if they make the player a chromatic dragon though. Nothing wrong with the concept, but I think being a chromatic slightly dampens the idea of being a playing as a pure dragon like Wrathion. The chromatics are a frankenstein experiment, not my ideal option for a new race or class tbh. It's sort of a hit and miss like Void Elves not actually being a High Elf option for Alliance.
    I think if they tinker with the lore, they can make Chromatics go beyond simply frankenstein experiments. Like they could be naturally born Chromatics through some completely pulled out of the arse storyline like they did with Demon Hunters. Wrathion found a stash of Twilight eggs from out of nowhere, nothing's to say that there wasn't a stash of chromatic eggs out there somewhere that someone has been watching over.

  4. #6744
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I think if they tinker with the lore, they can make Chromatics go beyond simply frankenstein experiments. Like they could be naturally born Chromatics through some completely pulled out of the arse storyline like they did with Demon Hunters. Wrathion found a stash of Twilight eggs from out of nowhere, nothing's to say that there wasn't a stash of chromatic eggs out there somewhere that someone has been watching over.
    I think that'd be an interesting idea as a race.

    I'm still not sure if it'd be an ideal solution for a Dragon-themed class. When I think of a Dragonsworn or a class that has the abilities of the Dragonflights, I'm not thinking about playing as secret Chromatic dragons. My personal impression is either a mortal who swears fealty to Dragons and is bestowed their powers, or a Dragon of the dragonflights. I guess it's a matter of seeing how they roll out a playable Chromatic Dragon race and giving it an exclusive class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  5. #6745
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I mean, we never saw a Priest that used Shadow magic before WoW. We never had Paladins capable of using Necromancy as we do in Shadowlands. We never seen a Mage capable of turning into a Skeleton Mage to boost their power. We'd never seen Druids turn into flaming kitty form before Firelands.
    Admittedly I'm being pedantic... but isn't that the whole thing about liches? Mages turning into skeletons to boost their power?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  6. #6746
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Admittedly I'm being pedantic... but isn't that the whole thing about liches? Mages turning into skeletons to boost their power?
    I don't think we've had a case where a Mage using a Lich-type form, while retaining their status as a Mage Class.

    Liches are permanent forms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #6747
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I think that'd be an interesting idea as a race.

    I'm still not sure if it'd be an ideal solution for a Dragon-themed class. When I think of a Dragonsworn or a class that has the abilities of the Dragonflights, I'm not thinking about playing as secret Chromatic dragons. My personal impression is either a mortal who swears fealty to Dragons and is bestowed their powers, or a Dragon of the dragonflights. I guess it's a matter of seeing how they roll out a playable Chromatic Dragon race and giving it an exclusive class.
    Well chromatic dragons work because they (like the other flights) can take on a mortal form, yet they also have the ability to use the powers of the other flights, so lorewise, they’d be perfect. They also have a strong connection to WoW and the history of dragons in general.

    This situation wouldn’t be much different than how Blizzard altered Draenei and Pandaren appearance and lore before they brought them into the game. Especially Draenei where they changed their origins and tried to pretty them up from their older incarnation.

  8. #6748
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    This situation wouldn’t be much different than how Blizzard altered Draenei and Pandaren appearance and lore before they brought them into the game. Especially Draenei where they changed their origins and tried to pretty them up from their older incarnation.
    Very true. Draenei were definitely at the height of their magic at work. I never expected them to make Eredar playable good guys, so I definitely give them credit for that.

    Pandaren are still a mixed bag for me. It's almost the opposite of the Draenei situation where they should have had a massive hit, and instead they're seen as one of the most controversial additions to the game, to date. I personally love the addition of the race, but I feel like how they approached it all was a hit-and-miss.

    And I still think it sucks that we're this far into WoW and they haven't figured a proper way to implement playable Naga.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  9. #6749
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It is a stretch if we only consider that as a single source. I wanted to shed some light on the origin of the term, and why the fanbase is currently using it.

    I would say the stronger case for a playable class is through the playable Dragons in Heroes of the Storm. Even though it is a different game altogether, HOTS is modelled closely after the classic Warcraft RPG tropes that the RTS and WoW were built upon. Heroes like Blademasters and Mountain Kings were given more depth and a full talent tree to explore, while characters like Varian and Garrosh offer different takes on the Warrior class.

    Alexstrazsa, Chromie, Deathwing and to an extent, Brightwing (she uses magic tied to the Emerald Dream) all exhibit some interesting mechanics not found in current classes. I think there's a case to build a WoW class that homages these characters, as well as the Dragon NPCs that we've seen throughout all of WoW. Wrathion and the Dragon Isles are being set up for the future, so there's an opportunity to explore a fresh new class in that setting.
    Even in WC3, there were specific creature types like the Eredar, Pit Lord or Elementals as Heroes. I consider it rather unlikely that they will ever made into a class and neither Dragons, Just because it is too specific. And honestly, probably not before Dark Ranger and Tinker, which are just the remaining WC3 heroes not turned or included into classes yet. Also a literal dragon class/race I feel like just isn't feasible in terms of the game mechanics, just because of the Dragon Model. It would be even more of a nightmare than playable ogres or Tinkers with their mech suits. I also wouldn't call the small hint on the Dragon Isles a real set up for the future. They were planned at the beginning but never finished and they are in the actual game only mentioned once in a azerithe fetch quest. Seems like one of these things that will just end up being resolved in a single quest or raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    That doesn't mean those classes CAN'T exist though.
    You saying you're fanfiction can exist but denying the same to my Gangstamancer fan concept is pretty dishonest tactics here, bro.

    they'll of course pull from existing class ideas first, or at least use them for inspiration. But the existence of those WC3 heroes don't prevent other new classes from existing or ever being implemented.
    Yeah, but there is not a single case of Blizz not utilizing a WC3 Hero since the first hero class and even most of the classes in the basegame were either heroes or a mix of different units and heroes.

    [quote]Except, most of the fanfiction classes are at least based on well known fantasy tropes and somewhat grounded in WoW lore. Throwing out silly classes like "Gangsta Rapper" and saying they're as likely as a Dragon Knight or Bard is a reductio ad absurdum argument.

    They are, because there is simply no case of Dragon powered Warriors or battle bards existing in the franchise. Otherwise I could argue that the next class will be a gunblade class, that is one established in a different fantasy setting.

    But laser chickens, werewolves, space goats, cartoonishly greedy goblins, and talking cows are OK? Seems weird to me. To each their own I guess.
    I mean, the Draenei are designed after the Eredar from Warcraft 3 and pretty connected to the more epic aspects of the franchise. Werewolves and Tauren are also included in a rather serious fashion into the franchise, the Pandaren are this weird case of something whimsical which we are supposed to take serious, which never really worked in the franchise. Guess why Blizz isn't doing much Gnome or Goblin Content as the main focus and more as comedic side story.

  10. #6750
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    Even in WC3, there were specific creature types like the Eredar, Pit Lord or Elementals as Heroes. I consider it rather unlikely that they will ever made into a class and neither Dragons, Just because it is too specific. And honestly, probably not before Dark Ranger and Tinker, which are just the remaining WC3 heroes not turned or included into classes yet.
    I think that's a fair opinion. There are definitely other strong choices for classes out there, I'm simply making a point that there is still room for whatever Blizzard chooses to add as a class. I don't think Warcraft 3 is the only binding source for classes, considering we're at a point where the Tinker is the only nominal choice when it comes to any class with a unique theme. Dark Rangers are still very much on the table though I suspect Sylvanas' downfall may have them set aside for the time being.


    Also a literal dragon class/race I feel like just isn't feasible in terms of the game mechanics, just because of the Dragon Model. It would be even more of a nightmare than playable ogres or Tinkers with their mech suits. I also wouldn't call the small hint on the Dragon Isles a real set up for the future. They were planned at the beginning but never finished and they are in the actual game only mentioned once in a azerithe fetch quest. Seems like one of these things that will just end up being resolved in a single quest or raid.
    Definitely possible, though a Dragon model doesn't need to be utilized in the game much, if at all. I see it as a means to an end more than anything. Whether it's a transformation or an ability, there's ways to go about representing it without actually having to implement it.

    Chromie in HOTS for example only brings her Dragon Form out for specific attacks, and only as a brief spell animation. It's kinda like how the Demon Hunter spawns magical wings when you double jump. As for an actual form, they could simply scale it to what is appropriate for the duration.

    I personally wouldn't give them a combat form that takes up huge amounts of raid space. I'd opt to have it be an optional out-of-combat form, similar to the Sandstone Drake Alchemy mount that turns you into a literal dragon. Keep it in RP mode like how Worgens can only keep their humanoid form out of combat, and only out of combat. There can be a case made that you're only allowed the form whenever you can mount too, so you can't just OOC turn into a dragon in a raid or dungeon setting, outside of a possible cooldown ability or specific mechanic that allows it in combat.

    And as an ingame lore thing, they could just say that since the Dragons are choosing to join the mortal race's factions, they choose mortal forms to fight in out of respect and comfort; makes it easier for them to 'blend in' and make use of mortal weapons. We already see Wrathion fight and stay in his humanoid form when using Xalatath to defeat N'zoth.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-05-29 at 02:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  11. #6751
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    You saying you're fanfiction can exist but denying the same to my Gangstamancer fan concept is pretty dishonest tactics here, bro.
    Except Gangstamancer is not a class in any fantasy setting, anywhere.

    Acting like it has an equal chance of becoming a class when pitted against classes that are fantasy genre staples is dishonest. C'mon.

    Yeah, but there is not a single case of Blizz not utilizing a WC3 Hero since the first hero class and even most of the classes in the basegame were either heroes or a mix of different units and heroes.
    OK, and what happens when all the heros have been used? Where will they pull from? What inspiration will they draw from?

    Again, I've not ever argued they'll choose some alternate class that's never before been seen in wow lore before they choose from the list of existing heroes, just that the existence of those heroes does not make it impossible for other classes to even exist.

    They are, because there is simply no case of Dragon powered Warriors or battle bards existing in the franchise. Otherwise I could argue that the next class will be a gunblade class, that is one established in a different fantasy setting.
    Well, yeah you could.

    Because at least a Gunblade class has a basis in a fantasy setting. Gangstamancer doesn't, based on just the name alone anyway. If you can write a convincing enough backstory for a class called that fits into a fantasy setting, that's a bit of another story.

    I mean, the Draenei are designed after the Eredar from Warcraft 3 and pretty connected to the more epic aspects of the franchise. Werewolves and Tauren are also included in a rather serious fashion into the franchise, the Pandaren are this weird case of something whimsical which we are supposed to take serious, which never really worked in the franchise. Guess why Blizz isn't doing much Gnome or Goblin Content as the main focus and more as comedic side story.
    I've never taken Pandaren that seriously.

  12. #6752
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Broxxigar's axe would have been awesome! Especially in an expansion where Sargeras made an appearance. We even had taeshalach which was forged from a piece of Sargeras' own sword, so Broxxigar's axe wouldn't have been problematic to add. Missed opportunity for sure.
    They said they think on it, but decided to not to, cause a "nature" themed axe, would not fit warrior fantasy, but a shadow sword theme would, when they could have simple said the axe got corrupted by sargeras blood/fel magic, becoming even stronger.

    Case in point, big problem with classes/specs those days is how the devs decide, arbitrary, what fit and what don't fit in the class fantasy, based on their own taste and short-sigh, so any future class will suffer from that

  13. #6753
    Tinkers need to happen with a specific idea in mind.

    In addition with Tinker exclusive mechs, having mech mounts like the lightforged warframe, GMOD, lumber extractor, sky golem, and fel reaver unlocks a skin to use during combat. Similar to druid forms.

  14. #6754
    338 pages of people arguing over who is more wrong

    Though that’s perfectly ok as long as it doesn’t spill into other threads

  15. #6755
    Again:

    In my opinion the logic says that the new class can only be Dark Rangers:

    1- Sylvanas is so popular than Illidan and Arthas. However, these two Warcraft heroes have already had their classes playable. The Sylvanas class has not yet.
    2- Silvanas is not popular just because of her beautiful legs. People like her style and skills. If in doubt about it, watch a "reaction" on youtube about BFA cinematic. When Sylvanas uses his banshee power and kills alliance soldiers, people experience a nerdy orgasm.
    3- All new hero-classes are melee. Dark Ranger would come to be the first Ranged hero-Class.
    4- There is a lack of class that uses mail armor in the game. So ... let the Dark Rangers come.
    5- Dark Ranger is not just a "Dark Hunter". Saying this is like saying that the DK is a dark warrior or saying that the paladin is just a warrior with Holy damage. There is an infinite world of possibilities for us to see in this class. Certainly this class would inherit Sylvanas' banshee skills in various talents.
    6- Many classes share swords, maces, staffs, fist weapon etc ...! But only Hunter uses bow. How to solve this? Ok ... DARK RANGERS !!
    7- There's a battle-ground that Nathanos says "Let me look at you. Pathetic. Why aren't there Dark Rangers here ?? !!" (it's just Blizzard giving us a spoiler?)
    8- Not having playable Dark Rangers in the game despite how interesting Sylvanas is, and all the possibilities that this class would have ... it's like having a Justice League game and we can't play Batman. Just my opinion.

    Now let's stop talking about logic and just talk about fun:

    Dark Rangers would be a mix of Hunter and Rogues who could use Banshee's powers. I can't imagine how incredible that would be. In practice it would be a Hunter with perma-stealth with a lot of shadow damage. There could only be two specs (like DHs) one strong on single target damage and the other on survival and aoe damage. No pets in my opinion

    The main conter-argument I see in the forums is:
    Dark Ranger is just another Hunter wich purple arrow. My God. It makes me feel that Warlock is like a mage who knows how to summon demons, or DK is just a Warrior with frost damage, etc. After seeing the video below I ask you:
    Have you ever seen in wow anybody controlling the enemy's mind while vanishing in the shadow of himself to attack the enemy with clones and arrows?? No, right. So let sse it below:

    SEE THE VIDEO BELOW AND NEVER SAY AGAIN THAT DARK RANGERS ARE EQUAL TO HUNTERS:



    This image below makes it clear that thanks to HOTS the Dark Ranger should already be practically ready for wow.




    Now about the hero-class that (if Sylvanas dies in SL) we will probably never have ...

    Below are the reasons I believe Dark Ranger is the most obvious class we should be. Note this: I made it "obvious". I didn't say "the best". (Yes, particularly it would be my favorite class ..)

    I invite you now to an interesting question:

    ILLIDAN is an incredibly popular character in the wow lore. He is so popular that he has become the protagonist of a cinematic (TBC) and his class (Demon Hunter) is playable nowadays.
    ARTHAS is an incredibly popular character in the wow lore. He is so popular that he became a protagonist in a cinematic (WTLK) and his class (Death Knight) is playable nowadays.
    SYLVANAS is an incredibly popular character in the wow lore. She is so incredible that she became (side by Varian) a protagonist in LEGION cinematic, she is the protagonist in BFA cinematic and also, she is protagonist in SHADOWLANDS cinematic ... and ... wait !! Where is her class (Dark Ranger) playable nowadays ??

    Okay, Hold on ... I know that "popularity" and "protagonism in cinematics" are not determining factors for a new class to be chosen.
    But yes ... they are an investment of time (and a lot of time).
    I am not a detective and I cannot prove what I am saying but I am SURE that the playable hero-class Dark Ranger came to be planned and (for some reason) was abandoned. This occurred between Legion and BFA.
    My best shot is:
    At a Blizzard meeting someone said ...
    [[Dev-1]] So, we're here to decide today whether the Dark Ranger will have more mobility than DH ...
    [[Dev-2]] Wait a second Bob ... it looks like these Mythic-Raiders here in the chat are saying that it would be cool for other races like Troll zandalari, etc ...
    And is that folks! Everything has changed!
    But that was not enough ... Unlike Illidan and Arthas, for some neuropsychotic reason, Sylvanas is hated by 50% of the community (Is it because of the tree?) And the Devs knew that and realized that they announced Dark Ranger (the class from Sylvanas) as a playable class, HATE would be something more uncontrollable than the High Elves thread. Sad.

    In my opinion we could be playing with the most fun and coolest class in the game (DR) .... but there was so much "bullshit" in its path that today we have some Tauren with moose horn (allied races), we have some little vampire powers or druid skills (covenant), and that will disappear in 1 or 2 years ...! Really sad. We deserved more.
    A hero-class whose hero was the main in 2 fucking xpacs and we will never have playable Dark Rangers ?? Ok-dokey.......

  16. #6756
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    3- All new hero-classes are melee. Dark Ranger would come to be the first Ranged hero-Class.
    4- There is a lack of class that uses mail armor in the game. So ... let the Dark Rangers come.
    There are other concepts that are ranged and could be use mail armor. Bard is one such class that comes to mind. Tinkers-- another ranged concept-- could wear mail armor, according to some, though I disagree on that regard.

    8- Not having playable Dark Rangers in the game despite how interesting Sylvanas is, and all the possibilities that this class would have ... it's like having a Justice League game and we can't play Batman. Just my opinion.
    Okay. But just keep in mind how long it took for Blizzard to add demon hunters. Illidan came and went, and no DHs.

    SYLVANAS is an incredibly popular character in the wow lore. She is so incredible that she became (side by Varian) a protagonist in LEGION cinematic, she is the protagonist in BFA cinematic and also, she is protagonist in SHADOWLANDS cinematic ... and ... wait !! Where is her class (Dark Ranger) playable nowadays ??
    Sylvanas is an antagonist in Shadowlands, not protagonist. Protagonists are the story leads, the heroes. Antagonists are the villains of the story.

    And, even so, Sylvanas is, at best, a "support" antagonist in the lore of Shadowlands, much like Gul'dan was in Legion. She's not the BBEG of Shadowlands. The Jailer is. Sure, Blizzard could pull the rug under our eyes and have Sylvanas overthrow the Jailer and become more powerful than him, but, as far as the current story goes, that is how Sylvanas currently stands: a minion to the BBEG.

    I am not a detective and I cannot prove what I am saying but I am SURE that the playable hero-class Dark Ranger came to be planned and (for some reason) was abandoned. This occurred between Legion and BFA.
    Okay. It's fine if you want to believe that, but you know you have absolutely zero evidence of that ever happening. It's nothing but wild, baseless speculation, treading dangerously close to "tinfoil hat" territory.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2021-06-02 at 02:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

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