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  1. #1321
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Death Knights could raise multiple dead at once. That became Army of the Dead. Raise dead was the ability to raise two skeletons via Necromancers.
    Doesn't matter. The point is that the death knight concept has already been shown to be able to raise the dead way back in Warcraft 3. It did not need the necromancer concept "rolled into it" to be able to do so.

    So yeah, DKs kept their multiple summoning ability and they got the Necromancer's weaker summoning ability.
    Ok. First off: game mechanics don't determine what is "stronger" and what is "weaker". But if you want to use game mechanics, let's go:
    • DKs could raise dead units into undeath once every three minutes. Necromancers can summon skeletons for as long as they have mana.
    • DKs could only raise up to six dead units every three minutes. With a full mana bar, necromancers could raise up to ten skeleton units.
    • DKs could only raise dead units only every three minutes. By that time, a necromancer has generated half of its mana, allowing for four more skeleton units being raised. More than that if they had an Obsidian Statue with them giving them mana.

    The issue with giving Necromancers an ability with a different name is that Death Knights summon minions in so many ways that there's really no room for Necromancers to summon undead minions in a unique way. In short, when it comes to summoning undead minions, DK has it covered.
    And that is false. If I could create a way to summon undead minions in an unique way, surely Blizzard can do the same.

    Then you have no idea what lore is.
    Says the guy who constantly mistakes gameplay mechanics with lore.

    Your argument is that Necromancers "aren't about war" when Maldraxxus is full of Necromancers. So clearly Blizzard disagrees with you.
    Just like you claims that "tinkers are adventurers, engineers are vendors"? Which Blizzard doesn't agree with?

    Death is a synonym for Afterlife, which means they mean the same thing.
    Not in Warcraft, no, in which the afterlife is a real thing, not just an abstract concept. It's an actual place, and death is only the process in which one normally accesses the afterlife. The kind of magic being displayed in Shadowlands and the story being told in Shadowlands is not fit for a necromancer. "But Maldraxxus..." doesn't matter. That's like saying BfA was a good expansion for necromancers considering we had Nazmir and necromancer trolls using blood magic. Or that the Cataclysm expansion was a good time to add a dragon-based class.

    You're wrongfully assuming the Warlock was used in place of a Demon Hunter. Warlocks were placed in the game as a stand in for Necromancers. If you take a deep dive into their purpose and mechanics, that becomes abundantly clear.
    Their purpose? Dealing with demons. Doesn't sound like a necromancer purpose.

    Demon Hunters didn't enter WoW until the 6th expansion, and after Monks. By your logic, Monks were more popular than Demon Hunters.
    That's not my logic. That is your logic, since you are the one making the popularity argument.

    Here's my logic; This expansion is the perfect expansion and timing for a new Necromancer class and there's none to be found. Like I said, the writing is on the wall.
    You just don't know how to read, then. Again, this expansion's story is nowhere near "perfect" or even a good fit for a necromancer class.

    Let me ask you an honest question; If you were in charge of Blizzard, would you release a Necromancer class in THIS expansion given this expansion's theme?
    I would not. Because necromancers do not fit the expansion's story being told.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  2. #1322
    just W o W ; fun to watch these things)
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Gameplay overrides lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I never said it wasn't. I'm simply pointing out that I care way more about the gameplay than the story. The story is secondary, if not tertiary.
    Then you do backflip and turn on 180*
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Easy-peasy.
    And now Lore matters?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post

    Then you have no idea what lore is.
    Last edited by cocomen2; Yesterday at 05:12 PM.
    I want these classes in new x-pac Necromancer,RuneMaster,Warden,BladeMaster,DarkRanger,Dragonsworn,Alchemist,Lich,Tinker

  3. #1323
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Let me ask you an honest question; If you were in charge of Blizzard, would you release a Necromancer class in THIS expansion given this expansion's theme?
    I'd introduce a Necromancer class given ANY expansion theme, haha.

    No, what I'm saying is that Blizzard set up a rather thorough background story on how Warlocks got Metamorphosis;

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Council_of_the_Black_Harvest

    And they completely dumped it when Demon Hunters entered the game, because there was no explanation on why Warlocks lost metamorphosis. I mean we understand gameplay wise, but there was no explanation lore wise.
    Wasn't it just the ONE warlock who learned Metamorphosis? Because he was evil, they drained his power, and he lost his demon form.

    It's highly doubtful that Blizzard is going to allow two classes to raise the dead given their history on such abilities.
    That's what you said about diseases and plagues, and two classes can summon elementals. I'll also repeat, only one DK spec heavily utilizes undead minions.

    I highlighted all the things Death Knights can do. So yeah, they can do most of that.
    Which DK abilities are you referring to sends waves of exploding skeletons, involves spectral magic, and bone projectiles? And more importantly, ALL in which spec?

    It's a theme not seen in DKs because it's redundant and taken care of by a more fitting concept; Magical diseases that can spread AoE DoTs and direct damage in a more logical and efficient manner.
    But I'll remind you that DK diseases don't burn, pool, spray, gas, etc. All DK diseases do is DoT damage and spread. Disease as it stands currently is more limited in its function and mechanics unlike poison. They also can't do it 40 yards away like a true Ranged class.

    Typically the Necromancers either do one or the other, not both.
    It's a good thing we're talking about Necromancers in WoW.

    Xul isn't zero though.
    Again, I asked you how many Necromancers in WoW, who are actually categorized as true Necromancers ARE NOT light-armored ranged spell casters? That answer was zero.

  4. #1324
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Doesn't matter. The point is that the death knight concept has already been shown to be able to raise the dead way back in Warcraft 3. It did not need the necromancer concept "rolled into it" to be able to do so.
    Clearly Blizzard disagreed, which is why they did it. It's also more than likely the reason no Necromancer class was introduced into Shadowlands.


    Ok. First off: game mechanics don't determine what is "stronger" and what is "weaker". But if you want to use game mechanics, let's go:
    • DKs could raise dead units into undeath once every three minutes. Necromancers can summon skeletons for as long as they have mana.
    • DKs could only raise up to six dead units every three minutes. With a full mana bar, necromancers could raise up to ten skeleton units.
    • DKs could only raise dead units only every three minutes. By that time, a necromancer has generated half of its mana, allowing for four more skeleton units being raised. More than that if they had an Obsidian Statue with them giving them mana.
    You're forgetting that the DK's minions were invulnerable, and raised undead versions of the units that died instead of frail skeletons. So smart DKs would purposely use their ultimate over the corpses of huge units like knights or tauren. When backed by Unholy Aura they could often times turn the tide of a battle in an instant.

    In other words, those 6 dead units would roll through 10 skeletons in a matter of seconds.

    And that is false. If I could create a way to summon undead minions in an unique way, surely Blizzard can do the same.
    If they deem it as something worth doing. There's a very real possibility that they feel that what the DK does is enough in the summoning undead department.

    Just like you claims that "tinkers are adventurers, engineers are vendors"? Which Blizzard doesn't agree with?
    Didn't Blizzard create the Tinker hero and HotS Tinker with unique abilities not found in the engineering profession? Didn't Blizzard create 2 Island Expedition teams utilizing those Tinker abilities alongside new abilities also not found in the engineering profession?

    What was it that Blizzard doesn't agree with again?


    Not in Warcraft...
    In the english language which Blizzard was using to describe the game, Death and the Afterlife mean the same thing.


    Their purpose? Dealing with demons. Doesn't sound like a necromancer purpose.
    Like I said, dive deeper.


    That's not my logic. That is your logic, since you are the one making the popularity argument.
    My argument was never about the time it took for a class to appear in WoW, that was yours. My argument was that with no Necromancer class in an expansion ripe for a new Necromancer class, the lack of one indicates that Blizzard doesn't view the Necromancer class concept as something that the game simply has to have because fans think its "popular".

    You just don't know how to read, then. Again, this expansion's story is nowhere near "perfect" or even a good fit for a necromancer class.
    .....in your opinion.

    I would not. Because necromancers do not fit the expansion's story being told.
    But I didn't ask you.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amunrasonther View Post
    I'd introduce a Necromancer class given ANY expansion theme, haha.
    Well so much for that....

    Wasn't it just the ONE warlock who learned Metamorphosis? Because he was evil, they drained his power, and he lost his demon form.
    Other Warlocks learned it from him.

    That's what you said about diseases and plagues, and two classes can summon elementals. I'll also repeat, only one DK spec heavily utilizes undead minions.
    Yes, different types of elementals which align with the spec alignment of their respective classes. And while one DK spec heavily utilizes undead minions, every DK spec can summon a minion unique to the spec.

    Which DK abilities are you referring to sends waves of exploding skeletons, involves spectral magic, and bone projectiles? And more importantly, ALL in which spec?
    Army of the Dead (UH), Apocalypse (UH), Dancing Rune Blade (B), Soul Reaper (UH), Bonestorm (B).

    But I'll remind you that DK diseases don't burn, pool, spray, gas, etc. All DK diseases do is DoT damage and spread. Disease as it stands currently is more limited in its function and mechanics unlike poison. They also can't do it 40 yards away like a true Ranged class.
    Death and Decay/Defile handles pooling. Bursting Sores handles Spraying. Abomination handles gas. The only aspect it doesn't cover is burning, but since they're all DoTs I don't think that matters.

    It's a good thing we're talking about Necromancers in WoW.
    Again, I'm just bringing that up to show that Blizzard doesn't share the view that a Necromancer class needs to be a frail spell caster. That is something that Necromancer advocates need to consider.

  5. #1325
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Clearly Blizzard disagreed, which is why they did it. It's also more than likely the reason no Necromancer class was introduced into Shadowlands.
    Um... what? You're saying Blizzard thinks the death knight back in Warcraft 3 could not summon undead units? Because that's literally what I said.

    You're forgetting that the DK's minions were invulnerable, and raised undead versions of the units that died instead of frail skeletons. So smart DKs would purposely use their ultimate over the corpses of huge units like knights or tauren. When backed by Unholy Aura they could often times turn the tide of a battle in an instant.

    In other words, those 6 dead units would roll through 10 skeletons in a matter of seconds.
    And once those seconds are over, the death knight will find himself without minions, while the necromancer would still be summoning minions. Or, if the necromancer ambushes the death knight while his ability is on cooldown. Also, those two abilities require corpses. A necromancer will always summon skeletons, while the DK raises the units as they were. That means if the only corpses around are of critters (sheep, stags, frogs, etc) the DK will have an army that does nothing, while the necromancer will have the usual skeletons from the critters.

    Not to mention, like I said in the beginning: the power of those abilities are merely game balance. The death knight's ability isn't "more powerful" than the necromancer's.

    If they deem it as something worth doing. There's a very real possibility that they feel that what the DK does is enough in the summoning undead department.
    Well, apparently the tinker is also something Blizzard might not deem worthy of being made into a class, then.

    What was it that Blizzard doesn't agree with again?
    You seem to have problems reading, so I'll repeat it: your claim of "tinkers are adventurers, engineers are vendors". And why Blizzard disagrees? We have tinkers who are vendors, and we have engineers who are adventurers around Azeroth.

    In the english language which Blizzard was using to describe the game, Death and the Afterlife mean the same thing.
    And in the english language which Blizzard was using the describe the game, "tinker" is inferior to "engineer". Your move.

    Like I said, dive deeper.
    Your argument, you provide the evidence. It's not my job to look for evidence for you.

    My argument was never about the time it took for a class to appear in WoW, that was yours. My argument was that with no Necromancer class in an expansion ripe for a new Necromancer class, the lack of one indicates that Blizzard doesn't view the Necromancer class concept as something that the game simply has to have because fans think its "popular".
    Teriz, you literally said that the necromancer is not popular because it wasn't realized into a playable class:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well Blizzard chose to go with the Death Knight instead of the Necromancer, and they completely bypassed the opportunity to bring in a Necromancer class in this expansion, so I don't think it's as popular as you believe it is.
    Then, by your logic, the tinker is also not popular because it hasn't been realized into a playable class in all these 15+ years.

    .....in your opinion.
    And? What's wrong with that? Am I not allowed to give my opinion?

    But I didn't ask you.....
    You didn't. But I thought I could give my own opinion. What's wrong with that? Was I not allowed to?
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  6. #1326
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes, different types of elementals which align with the spec alignment of their respective classes. And while one DK spec heavily utilizes undead minions, every DK spec can summon a minion unique to the spec.
    Still elementals that two different classes can summon. Mages have one elemental pet spec, and Shamans of all specs, can summon 1 elemental pet (2 if specced) for a short time. If these two classes can summon elementals, then two classes can summon undead minions.

    Unholy DKs are the only spec within the class that heavily utilize pets. Most of the time, Frost and Blood DKs are dealing damage without pets involved. DKs are not a true pet class. They only have a pet spec.

    Army of the Dead (UH), Apocalypse (UH), Dancing Rune Blade (B), Soul Reaper (UH), Bonestorm (B).
    Army/Apoc are not waves of exploding minions. My spell is essentially a nuke with an extended animation. At no point are the skeletons involved in this spell of mine, pets. Bonestorm isn't a projectile - it's an AoE. Soul Reaper has nothing to do with ghosts (Do DKs have any spells that deal with ghosts?), and what is Dancing Rune Blade supposed to represent?

    Death and Decay/Defile handles pooling. Bursting Sores handles Spraying. Abomination handles gas. The only aspect it doesn't cover is burning, but since they're all DoTs I don't think that matters.
    Death and Decay, Defile, nor Abomination are diseases. Don't say diseases can do everything a poison can and then list non diseases. Busting Sores is not a spray, as in channeled function. DKs to my knowledge cannot deal damage in a channeled mechanic.

    Again, I'm just bringing that up to show that Blizzard doesn't share the view that a Necromancer class needs to be a frail spell caster. That is something that Necromancer advocates need to consider.
    And yet, every Necromancer NPC in WoW IS a light-armored ranged spell caster.

  7. #1327
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Um... what? You're saying Blizzard thinks the death knight back in Warcraft 3 could not summon undead units? Because that's literally what I said.
    No, you said that clearly the DK didn't need the Necromancer class concept to raise the dead. Again, clearly Blizzard disagreed because they gave DKs the Necromancer ability among other Necromancer concepts.

    And once those seconds are over, the death knight will find himself without minions, while the necromancer would still be summoning minions.
    Animate Dead lasted for 40 seconds. The Necromancer wouldn't be there still summoning units, the Necromancer would be dead.

    Or, if the necromancer ambushes the death knight while his ability is on cooldown. Also, those two abilities require corpses. A necromancer will always summon skeletons, while the DK raises the units as they were. That means if the only corpses around are of critters (sheep, stags, frogs, etc) the DK will have an army that does nothing, while the necromancer will have the usual skeletons from the critters.
    No, Animate Dead didn't re-summon critters, only units. Further, the spell only re-animated the strongest units.

    Not to mention, like I said in the beginning: the power of those abilities are merely game balance. The death knight's ability isn't "more powerful" than the necromancer's.
    Uh no. Animate Dead was an ultimate ability. So yes it was way more powerful than Necromancer's raise dead ability. Hence the longer cooldown and steeper requirements.

    Well, apparently the tinker is also something Blizzard might not deem worthy of being made into a class, then.
    I'm not aware of a technology expansion where Gnomes and Goblins were prominently featured.


    You seem to have problems reading, so I'll repeat it: your claim of "tinkers are adventurers, engineers are vendors". And why Blizzard disagrees? We have tinkers who are vendors, and we have engineers who are adventurers around Azeroth.
    Semantics. This is the Tinker we're talking about;

    http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutr...intinker.shtml

    The Tinker as an inventing adventurer is Blizzard's invention, not mine.

    And in the english language which Blizzard was using the describe the game, "tinker" is inferior to "engineer". Your move.
    See above.


    Teriz, you literally said that the necromancer is not popular because it wasn't realized into a playable class:
    I said it isn't as popular as some seem to believe, because there was no urgency or need to release it as a class in an expansion themed around the Necromancer's major thematic.

  8. #1328
    The Lightbringer Littleraven's Avatar
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    I know it will never happen because WoW isn't really built around it but I would love an actual support class. Having played a lot of FFXIV recently I love the Bard and Dancer and how they fit into a group. While they are ranged DPS classes they bring a lot of utility to groups through various buffs instead of just being a flat out DPS class.

    I don't really trust blizzard in balancing something like that though because the way WoW works they would probably end up half assed. People are focused solely on numbers when it comes to a damage class and there is no room for something like a support that isn't a healer. Unless the buff they brought were insane people would feel like they are just taking up a spot for another DPS.

  9. #1329
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amunrasonther View Post
    Still elementals that two different classes can summon. Mages have one elemental pet spec, and Shamans of all specs, can summon 1 elemental pet (2 if specced) for a short time. If these two classes can summon elementals, then two classes can summon undead minions.

    Unholy DKs are the only spec within the class that heavily utilize pets. Most of the time, Frost and Blood DKs are dealing damage without pets involved. DKs are not a true pet class. They only have a pet spec.
    Except summoning undead minions is a major theme of the Death Knight. In fact it's one of its defining characteristics. Summoning elementals isn't really a defining characteristic of the Shaman class, and I would argue it isn't really a defining characteristic of the Mage class either outside of Frost Mages.

    Army/Apoc are not waves of exploding minions. My spell is essentially a nuke with an extended animation. At no point are the skeletons involved in this spell of mine, pets. Bonestorm isn't a projectile - it's an AoE. Soul Reaper has nothing to do with ghosts (Do DKs have any spells that deal with ghosts?), and what is Dancing Rune Blade supposed to represent?
    Foul Managerie turns some of your undead minions into exploding zombies, so yes that is waves of exploding minions.
    Bones swirling around the DK during Bonestorm are still projectiles.
    Soul Reaper literally attacks the soul of your target and gives you a bonus if you kill them with it. Dancing Rune Weapon is a Ghost Blade. Wraithwalk turns you into a ghost and allows you to move faster.

    Death and Decay, Defile, nor Abomination are diseases. Don't say diseases can do everything a poison can and then list non diseases. Busting Sores is not a spray, as in channeled function. DKs to my knowledge cannot deal damage in a channeled mechanic.
    Abominations spew disease as they attack. Death and Decay can apply festering wounds. Bursting Sores infects targets around the burst. How is that not a spray?

    And yet, every Necromancer NPC in WoW IS a light-armored ranged spell caster.
    Then there are Death Knights, Necromancers who wear heavy armor.

    No comment on the Shadowland Necromancer idea?
    Last edited by Teriz; Yesterday at 09:06 PM.

  10. #1330
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, you said that clearly the DK didn't need the Necromancer class concept to raise the dead. Again, clearly Blizzard disagreed because they gave DKs the Necromancer ability among other Necromancer concepts.
    You're saying that Blizzard disagrees with the idea that the original death knights from Warcraft 3 could not raise the dead... despite the unit having the ability to raise the dead. Have you given up on logic? Teriz, it's right there. You even mentioned the ability several times.

    I mean, that's like saying that, in a high school test, I have to depend on a friend to solve the math questions, despite me getting straight A's on math, and my friend having at best B-. Since you say that the death knight's ability to raise the dead is "more powerful" than the necromancer's "weak" ability.

    I'm not aware of a technology expansion where Gnomes and Goblins were prominently featured.
    Necromancers aren't prominently featured in this expansion, either.

    Semantics. This is the Tinker we're talking about;

    http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutr...intinker.shtml

    The Tinker as an inventing adventurer is Blizzard's invention, not mine.
    That's not what semantic means. Plus I'm talking about your claim, not Blizzard's. Blizzard never made the claim that "tinkers invent, engineers sell".

    See above.
    No. You made the claim about the english language. I simply pointed out that, by that same english language, a tinker is inferior to the engineer. And if you want to invoke Blizzard, I will point out that what Blizzard has demonstrated about tinkers and engineers heavily indicate that they are merely synonyms of one-another.

    I said it isn't as popular as some seem to believe, because there was no urgency or need to release it as a class in an expansion themed around the Necromancer's major thematic.
    The argument stands. The fact we don't have a tinker class in these 15+ years of WoW is a heavy indication that the tinker is not as popular as some people seem to believe.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  11. #1331
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    want real fact check? DH were add with 2 spec only, i don't expect blizz to add any class, even if game is starting to REALLY need ranged class
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  12. #1332
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Necromancers aren't prominently featured in this expansion, either.
    Sylvanas was in the opening cinematic.

    The argument stands. The fact we don't have a tinker class in these 15+ years of WoW is a heavy indication that the tinker is not as popular as some people seem to believe.
    Again, where's the expansion prominently featuring a Tinker like this one featuring a necromancer?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    want real fact check? DH were add with 2 spec only, i don't expect blizz to add any class, even if game is starting to REALLY need ranged class
    Tinker would be 3 if not 4 specs with no abilities taking from existing classes.

    And yes I agree that the game needs another ranged class. I think the Tinker would be physical ranged, but use INT instead of AGI.

  13. #1333
    Elemental Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
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    A mail wearing, ranged dps. Probably hybrid, but we've never gotten a new ranged dps spec and we've had one taken away so we're due. What form that takes is up to Blizzard, but if it doesn't wear mail and doesn't have a ranged dps spec I will be upset.

  14. #1334
    I know it never gonna happen , but i would love to see some class that specializes in controlling insects and use them as weapon, like Entomomancer.
    (R.I.P. Mantid allied race)
    I want these classes in new x-pac Necromancer,RuneMaster,Warden,BladeMaster,DarkRanger,Dragonsworn,Alchemist,Lich,Tinker

  15. #1335
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Sylvanas was in the opening cinematic.
    Sylvanas is not a necromancer. You are really grasping at straws if you are now resorting to calling Sylvanas a necromancer.

    Again, where's the expansion prominently featuring a Tinker like this one featuring a necromancer?
    This expansion does not feature a necromancer.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  16. #1336
    Quote Originally Posted by Littleraven View Post
    I know it will never happen because WoW isn't really built around it but I would love an actual support class. Having played a lot of FFXIV recently I love the Bard and Dancer and how they fit into a group. While they are ranged DPS classes they bring a lot of utility to groups through various buffs instead of just being a flat out DPS class.

    I don't really trust blizzard in balancing something like that though because the way WoW works they would probably end up half assed. People are focused solely on numbers when it comes to a damage class and there is no room for something like a support that isn't a healer. Unless the buff they brought were insane people would feel like they are just taking up a spot for another DPS.
    Sonic Boom — Murmur releases a massive burst of sonic energy that blasts players within 0 yards with Nature damage, then inflicts additional Nature damage every 3 seconds for 9 sec. While affected by Sonic Boom, movement speed is reduced by 90%.

    Magnetic Pull — Murmur pulls all players towards him.

    Murmur's Touch — Murmur touches a player, causing the air around them to pulse with sonic energy for 14 sec. When Murmur's Touch fades, a shockwave of energy inflicts 3563 to 3937 Nature damage and silences all players within 0 yards of the player that was touched for 6 sec.

    Murmur's Touch — Murmur touches a player, causing the air around them to pulse with sonic energy for 7 sec, pulling all other players towards them. When Murmur's Touch fades, a shockwave of energy inflicts 3563 to 3937 Nature damage and silences all players within 0 yards of the player that was touched for 6 sec.

    Sonic Shock — Murmur shocks a player, inflicting 1875 to 3125 Arcane damage to his current target.

    Thundering Storm — Murmur throws sonic bolts at any player further than 25 yards from him, inflicting 2125 to 2875 Nature damage.

    Resonance — When there are no players within melee range of Murmur, he inflicts 2000 Nature damage to all players and increases their Nature damage taken by 2000 for 45 sec.

    Shockwave Truncheon:

  17. #1337
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I am 100% right cause Dragoon is not like that that. You could easily say the FF monk instead cause it does more flippy what's-its. It's just nonsense. Stop it.
    I won't waste time going back and forth with the "you're wrong, no you're wrong", so I'll
    just roll my eyes and go whatever you say kid.

    I shoot back at you your ignorant bias as you prove time and again that you do not know anything about these classes.
    No, you come across more as being kind of a dick (well not kind of, it's rather blatant) and really don't
    know how to talk like an adult. Which is the act of someone who likes to act like they know what they're
    talking about (psst you don't), so yeah.

    Mesmers are masters of illusions, not effin shadow priests. Priests use the power of the void. Alot of purple stuff and tentacles. Mesmers use illusions. They do not go insane and hurt themselves. It is the complete opposite!
    And here is pretty much where you hit the door with your face.

    I said SIMILAR. That does not automatically make them "the same", otherwise I'd just say "they're the same", as I
    have done with other classes.

    Mesmers do have Psychic abilities on top of their Illusion skills. If you actually did know what you were talking about,
    you'd already know that, and Shadow Priests have a variety of Psychic abilities as well.

    Now you move goal posts unsurprisingly. Alter time and mirror image are not nearly in the same level of a mesmer. Mesmers use tricks. They use debuffs to confuse the target and mirages. This is not what a mage does.
    Arcane Mages in WoW, particularly lore-based ones, have been using the arcane to use illusions in ways similar to how
    it is described that Mesmers do. If you'd have actually paid attention to the game's lore, you'd know this already. Instead,
    you're frantically trying to save face, like a pedantic child.

    By that logic all mechagnomes are mesmers cause they can do Hyper Organic Light Originator.
    If you can't tell the difference between a spell like Mirror Image, which uses magic, and Hyper Organic Light Originator,
    which can clearly only be used by Mecha Gnomes because of their mechanical origins, I gotta tell ya, you look even
    more ignorant than you already do.

    Can you truly not see how ridiculous your simplifications are?
    No, because they're meant to be extremely brief. Apparently, you're the only person to take umbrage with this, and
    the fact that you're taking it way past normal levels of serious is really really pathetic.

    Mages are fire/mage/arcane casters. Illusions are just a side gig and a very tiny one. They are not a class based on them.
    That is incorrect. All mages in WoW have the ability to use illusions. Some, like Arcane Mages, specialize in it more than the
    others, but the potential is still there.

    They have one spell mirror image. Dude, one spell DOES NOT make a whole class. You are being completely ridiculous!
    As are you, for failing to know the various other times Mages in WoW have used illusionary magic as a whole. Every single important
    character has used Illusionary magic, from Khargar, to Jaina, to some forgettable NPC during the various quests throught the game.
    From turning the player into other characters, to creating fake obstacles, mirror images, etc. This has all been done throught WoW's
    history. But you knew all that already.

    Right?

    Yes, truly, completely, ridiculous.

    WAH
    Yes boy howdy you've sure shown me. How could I possibly retort your "NUH UH" counter points. I am so soundly defeated.

    WAH
    And as opposed to actually providing clear evidence to support your nonsense, maybe even coming up with lore facts to contradict
    me, you just take your ball and go home, starting out as a failure and leaving as one.

    Bravo.

  18. #1338
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except summoning undead minions is a major theme of the Death Knight.
    Only 1 DK spec has actual pets. So much for a major theme...

    In fact it's one of its defining characteristics.
    You’ve said the same about diseases and plagues.

    Summoning elementals isn't really a defining characteristic of the Shaman class
    Summoning elementals for the main Elemental class isn’t a defining characteristic?!

    I would argue it isn't really a defining characteristic of the Mage class either outside of Frost Mages.
    Agreed. For frost mages, the water elemental is an iconic symbol within the spec.

    Foul Managerie turns some of your undead minions into exploding zombies, so yes that is waves of exploding minions.
    Nothing explodes. There is no AOE damage. There certainly is no wave of exploding undead minions.

    Bones swirling around the DK during Bonestorm are still projectiles.
    Projectile refers to a missile. Fireball is a projectile. Remorseless winter like Bonestorm is an AOE spell. They’re not missiles.

    Soul Reaper literally attacks the soul of your target and gives you a bonus if you kill them with it.
    Spectral magic involves something ghostly. Soul Reaper is not that.

    Dancing Rune Weapon is a Ghost Blade.
    Nothing implies ghosts here. It’s an enchanted sword inspired by the magical swords in Naxxramas.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Unholy_Swords

    Wraithwalk turns you into a ghost and allows you to move faster.
    Ah ok. So one utility ghost spell but no way to heal or deal damage through spectral spells.

    Abominations spew disease as they attack. Death and Decay can apply festering wounds. Bursting Sores infects targets around the burst. How is that not a spray?
    Abomination spreads disease from contact. Festering Wound isn’t a disease, nor are Bursting sores.


    Then there are Death Knights, Necromancers who wear heavy armor.
    Then they’re not Necromancers according to WoW standards. They might practice necromancy, but there’s a special criteria for being the Necromancer class. A Paladin wearing a robe isn’t suddenly a priest, and just because they use the Light, doesn’t make them a Holy Priest.

    No comment on the Shadowland Necromancer idea?
    Which idea?

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