1. #1361
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,869
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Tirion is a Paladin, Illidan is a Demon Hunter. It ha been established that Paladins can heal and resurrect the living. It has been established that Demon Hunters can use Fel.

    Only Necromancers can raise undead minions.
    And dark rangers. And death knights. And warlocks. And void mages. And the Light.

    That’s exactly what makes you a Necromancer.
    Okay, then you're saying Tirion is a priest, Illidan is a warlock, and Gul'dan is a mage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Mannoroth is Hellfire Citadel - raised by Fel:
    And back in BfA, during the Alliance's assault on Zuldazar, void elves would use void magic to raise skeleton dinosaurs from the dead.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, look what I just found:

    "The troll Zanzil was exiled from the Skullsplitter tribe for using his necromantic poisons on several of his unsuspecting fellow trolls"

    Even MORE evidence of necromancers and poison.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2020-12-05 at 03:06 PM.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  2. #1362
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,805
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And dark rangers. And death knights. And warlocks. And void mages. And the Light.
    Isn't the light pretty much a deity?

    As for the rest, yes all Necromancers. If you're using necromantic magic, you're a necromancer.


    Okay, then you're saying Tirion is a priest, Illidan is a warlock, and Gul'dan is a mage.
    Nope. Those are classes. Priests and Paladins are holymancers. Demon Hunters and Warlocks are felmancers.

    BTW, we should also mention that the Lich King also appeared in that opening cinematic versus Sylvanas, so that's two prominent necromancers in Shadowlands.

    Still no new necromancer class.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Death Knights and Dark Rangers would like to dispute this claim.
    Both are types of necromancer. Again, a necromancer is simply someone who uses necromancy.

    Ner'zhul's Void skeletons:


    Mannoroth is Hellfire Citadel - raised by Fel:
    All examples of necromancy performed by necromancers.

  3. #1363
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Sylvanas is not a Necromancer. She is a Dark Ranger. She possesses necromantic abilities. just like the Undead racial "Touch of the grave" drains the life out of the target - which, is a necromantic property. That does not make them a Necromancer.
    Of course not because unlike sylvanas massive necromantic power, touch of the grave is just tiny lil' one spell.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Hunters, or more specifically, Rangers use minor nature spells, because of their connections with the wilds. that does not make them Druids.
    Of course not because term druid is more specific than naturemancer. Also hunters doesn't have high proficiency with nature magic anyways.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Nature

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    "Elven rangers are elite archers turning to nature for aid, befriending animals. Some of them possess minor
    druidic abilities, as Vereesa Windrunner was able to use the "language of the trees, of all plants", and sense a plant's emotions and history through touch."
    See the bolded word?

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Does that make them eligible to be Necromancers/Druids in the future? hell yeah. incoming Blood elf Druids and Undead Necromancers, Soon ™
    Nope because to be called Xmancer you have to specialize (or simpler words: posses relatively high power level) in that X magic.


    The same way druids, dryads and keepers of the grove are naturemancers,
    the same liches, death knights, deathspeakers are all necromancers.

    I don't know how hard is to understand that specific term is different than broad term.

  4. #1364
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,869
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Isn't the light pretty much a deity?

    As for the rest, yes all Necromancers. If you're using necromantic magic, you're a necromancer.
    The point is that holy magic was used to raise an undead. And warlocks and void mages do not use death magic. They use fel magic and void magic, respectively.

    Nope. Those are classes. Priests and Paladins are holymancers. Demon Hunters and Warlocks are felmancers.
    There is no such thing as "holymancers" and "felmancers". You're making up words, now. Necromancers and death knights and dark rangers are separate class concepts.

    BTW, we should also mention that the Lich King also appeared in that opening cinematic versus Sylvanas, so that's two prominent necromancers in Shadowlands.
    Repeating a lie over and over does not make it any less of a lie. There are no necromancers in the opening cinematic. Only a hunter (or dark ranger) and a death knight.

    Still no new necromancer class.....
    Still no tinker class, either.

    Both are types of necromancer. Again, a necromancer is simply someone who uses necromancy.
    No, it's not. It's a specific archetype. You know exactly what we refer to when we use the word "necromancer".

    All examples of necromancy performed by necromancers.
    Warlocks are necromancers now? Void magic is death magic now? Not even Plastic Man is able to stretch that far.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2020-12-05 at 05:09 PM.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  5. #1365
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,805
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The point is that holy magic was used to raise an undead. And warlocks and void mages do not use death magic. They use fel magic and void magic, respectively.
    Which is as irrelevant as if a titan raised an undead. We’re talking about classes.

    Death magic exists in Fel and Void magic. Warlocks have the Deathbolt ability for example.


    There is no such thing as "holymancers" and "felmancers". You're making up words, now. Necromancers and death knights and dark rangers are separate class concepts.
    I’m not making up words. “Mancer” just means user of magic.

    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/-mancer


    By definition DKs and DRs are different types of necromancers.


    Repeating a lie over and over does not make it any less of a lie. There are no necromancers in the opening cinematic. Only a hunter (or dark ranger) and a death knight.
    See above. Simply two types of necromancers.


    Still no tinker class, either.
    If Gelbin and Gazlowe were fighting each other in the opening cinematic, and we were running through Undermine, you’d have a point.

  6. #1366
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Sweet Home Alabama
    Posts
    1,910
    Atleast blizzard workers know what "Necromancer" is.


    1) Wears = Cloth.
    2) Weapon = Stave (Staff).
    3) Has a book that implying that he can read and study Necromancy.


    I bet some of Death Knights just illiterate thugs that was raised without care.

    "Hello Johnny, from today you are Death Knight , pick up that Runeblade"

    If you have Ring,Runeblade,Arrows that has necromantic magic , or you are creature that has necromantic abilities that given to you just as aftermath of you becoming said creature , THIS not making you a Necromancer class.


    1)all cosmic forced can heal wounds = and its OK!, but when they raise undead you THINK they all Necromancers?

    2)Lets say we got 6 people at table , and one of them very good master at making chairs -> you think other five can't make chair themselves ? (swap chair for undead)

    3) If one of these 6 people is cannibal , its not fact that other five would want to become like him.
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2020-12-05 at 06:11 PM.
    Please, there a perfect example of hypocritical thinking:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If Tinkers had anything to do with Hunters, but they don’t. Unlike Bards which are linked to Rogues.

  7. #1367
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,869
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which is as irrelevant as if a titan raised an undead. We’re talking about classes.
    No, you were talking about how necromancy is what raises the undead. And I've shown you that it's not the case.

    Death magic exists in Fel and Void magic. Warlocks have the Deathbolt ability for example.
    Yeah. False. You showed this image before:

    And you can clearly see that death magic is separate from fel and void magic.

    I’m not making up words. “Mancer” just means user of magic.

    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/-mancer


    By definition DKs and DRs are different types of necromancers.
    But they're not the necromancers we are asking for, and you know that. That's like saying we don't need paladins because we got priests, and that we don't need demon hunters because we got warlocks.

    If Gelbin and Gazlowe were fighting each other in the opening cinematic, and we were running through Undermine, you’d have a point.
    Not really, considering we don't have any necromancer in the opening cinematic, and Icecrown is not the "birthplace" of necromancers.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  8. #1368
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,805
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    Atleast blizzard workers know what "Necromancer" is.


    1) Wears = Cloth.
    2) Weapon = Stave (Staff).
    3) Has a book that implying that he can read and study Necromancy.
    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Xul

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, you were talking about how necromancy is what raises the undead. And I've shown you that it's not the case.


    Yeah. False. You showed this image before:

    And you can clearly see that death magic is separate from fel and void magic.
    Didn’t Kil’jadeen of the Burning Legion create the Lich King?

    But they're not the necromancers we are asking for, and you know that. That's like saying we don't need paladins because we got priests, and that we don't need demon hunters because we got warlocks.
    The Necromancers you’re asking for =/= What is and is not a Necromancer


    Not really, considering we don't have any necromancer in the opening cinematic, and Icecrown is not the "birthplace" of necromancers.
    Denial at its finest folks.

  9. #1369
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Sweet Home Alabama
    Posts
    1,910
    Sorry Sweetheart; you forgot that Xul lives not in World of Warcraft universe?

    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Xul
    Xul, the Cryptic Necromancer, is a melee bruiser hero from the Diablo universe.
    To these who didn't got why i used metaphor "CHAIR" in my previous post , that because i need to use simple things for Teriz to understand , since if you gonna talk to him like he is not 5 years old , he just not gonna get a thing.

    EDIT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except I can perform several necromantic spells without having a weapon equipped, so that's irrelevant.
    This why i love that childish logic of yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    Once again you show that you cant tell difference between LORE and GAMEPLAY , you want Blizz be babysiter and type on each skill "can't be used without runeblade"? you are such nitpicking child , why do i even take you seriously .
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2020-12-05 at 06:40 PM.
    Please, there a perfect example of hypocritical thinking:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If Tinkers had anything to do with Hunters, but they don’t. Unlike Bards which are linked to Rogues.

  10. #1370
    Am I the only one who starts to wish that we will never get a Tinker class, despite me not being opposed to it on concept and just prefering other concepts more, just because of the entitled and toxic attitude of tinker fanboys?

    I mean, fuck. This is a thread were people should fanfiction about what classes could be possible, yet some tinker fanboys which I will not name specifically not to risk a ban but who should know that I talk about them just make it all about shutting down every voice which doesn't aggrees with them out of an inbelievable sense of entitlement and toxicity. Its just no fun. Discussing with these people is like talking with the kinds of people in the general gamer sphere who bitch about women or blacks or gays in gaming being too political and part of some agenda and it is just exhausting.

  11. #1371
    Necromancer wouldnt really work imo, would encroach to much on the territory of DKs and Locks. -> if they added a necromancer id say they change one of the specs of those 2 classes to it (DK already has quite a lot of necromancer going on anyways).

    Overall, while new classes are fun and cool at some point it would become totally impossible to balance. So i dont really see new classes coming anymore.

  12. #1372
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,805
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    Sorry Sweetheart; you forgot that Xul lives not in World of Warcraft universe?

    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Xul
    Did you forget that Xul is created by Blizzard which once again shows that Blizzard doesn't always view a frail spell caster as what a Necromancer can and should be?

    People should also recognize that Warlocks are in the game and do pretty much everything a traditional Necromancer would do. That kind of forces Blizzard to make a Necromancer class into a melee-based hybrid class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    Its just no fun. Discussing with these people is like talking with the kinds of people in the general gamer sphere who bitch about women or blacks or gays in gaming being too political and part of some agenda and it is just exhausting.
    Yes, us pointing out how a Necromancer class in a video game would not work is akin to racism, homophobia, and sexism...

    I think you might need to take a break.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Meowtwo View Post
    Necromancer wouldnt really work imo, would encroach to much on the territory of DKs and Locks. -> if they added a necromancer id say they change one of the specs of those 2 classes to it (DK already has quite a lot of necromancer going on anyways).

    Overall, while new classes are fun and cool at some point it would become totally impossible to balance. So i dont really see new classes coming anymore.
    Honestly we're very likely to get a new class next expansion. By the time the next expansion releases in 2022, it would have been six years since the previous class had been released. I think the class lineup could use a little shake up.

  13. #1373
    what if we got 2 new classes next expansion?
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  14. #1374
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,805
    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    what if we got 2 new classes next expansion?
    Both classes would have to match the expansion's theme apparently.

  15. #1375
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Sweet Home Alabama
    Posts
    1,910
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Both classes would have to match the expansion's theme apparently.

    Wow, how you love to move goalpost , i mean can you spam other 10 000 in same useless way?
    Please, there a perfect example of hypocritical thinking:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If Tinkers had anything to do with Hunters, but they don’t. Unlike Bards which are linked to Rogues.

  16. #1376
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Both classes would have to match the expansion's theme apparently.
    what if the expansion has 2 themes?
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  17. #1377
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,869
    But that's a Heroes of the Storm hero from the Diablo franchise. Considering you think that taking inspiration from Diablo is a bad thing, and how the Warcraft depiction of necromancers differ wildly from the Diablo depiction, I'm sure you can see how pointing at Xul is not exactly a valid example.

    Otherwise I can point at the "demon hunter" in Diablo and claim that this is how Blizzard envisions the demon hunter.

    Didn’t Kil’jadeen of the Burning Legion create the Lich King?
    By going into the Shadowlands to fashion a set of armor and a sword used to contain the soul of Ner'zhul? Again, you were the one who originally used that image, so you consider that image canon, and that image shows that void, necromancy and fel magics are separate.

    The Necromancers you’re asking for =/= What is and is not a Necromancer
    Except it is. I mean, go ahead: make a Google Image search for the word "necromancer" and count how many depictions of necromancer fit my description, and how many fit yours.

    Denial at its finest folks.
    Projection is your forte, apparently. Again, neither Sylvanas or the Lich King are necromancers. One is a hunter (or dark ranger) and the other is a death knight.

    Unless, again, you're going to also say that Tirion is a priest, and Illidan is a warlock.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  18. #1378
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post

    Wow, how you love to move goalpost , i mean can you spam other 10 000 in same useless way?
    why are you being a jerk?
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  19. #1379
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,805
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    But that's a Heroes of the Storm hero from the Diablo franchise. Considering you think that taking inspiration from Diablo is a bad thing, and how the Warcraft depiction of necromancers differ wildly from the Diablo depiction, I'm sure you can see how pointing at Xul is not exactly a valid example.
    I realize that. I'm just pointing out that Blizzard doesn't always develop Necromancers as a frail spell-caster. They also design them as melee with mid to high armor.

    By going into the Shadowlands to fashion a set of armor and a sword used to contain the soul of Ner'zhul? Again, you were the one who originally used that image, so you consider that image canon, and that image shows that void, necromancy and fel magics are separate.
    Isn't that a story point that just popped up in the current expansion? Regardless, Warlocks in WoW have demonstrated quite a bit of necromantic magic ability. Drain Life, Drain Soul, Life Tap, Soulstone, Deathbolt, Soul Shards, Health Funnel, etc. are all such examples.

    Except it is. I mean, go ahead: make a Google Image search for the word "necromancer" and count how many depictions of necromancer fit my description, and how many fit yours.
    That's the standard/traditional Necromancer. Considering the Warlock class eats up a lot of the gameplay of that type of character, it makes sense for Blizzard to go the route they did and use the Death Knight as WoW's necromancer instead.

    Projection is your forte, apparently. Again, neither Sylvanas or the Lich King are necromancers. One is a hunter (or dark ranger) and the other is a death knight.

    Unless, again, you're going to also say that Tirion is a priest, and Illidan is a warlock.
    The raise and control the dead, they have numerous abilities that demonstrate control over life and death energies. They are necromancers. If you want to continue with your false equivalence of Tirion and Illidan, that's your business.

  20. #1380
    Liches use necromancy right? (outside of Kel'thuzad)
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •