If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Triceron]

And the Tinker vendors aren't inventors and adventurers. Also if they were the same engineers, they would be selling WC3 Tinker stuff, like a Claw Pack, or items named for the Tinker's abilities with the same function.

None of that is the case.

Because the Clawpacks themselves aren't really canon in WoW. The only reason they are in Reforged is because they already had the model remade.

They could be made official but so far it seems like that's not the direction Blizzard wants to go in with WoW. Otherwise it would have made total sense to add a Clawpack to Gazlowe considering he has it in both Heroes of the Storm and Reforged, right? Looks like WoW doesn't want to make that official though.

Also if they were the same engineers, they would be selling WC3 Tinker stuff

Engineering stuff is Tinker stuff, since WoW treats them interchangeably. You can consider all the Engineering items as Tinker items. Tinkering is even a part of Engineering.

I mean it's like saying WoW should be able to sell Alchemist stuff if they're the same as Warcraft 3 Alchemists. Well, actually they do, because they represent the same thing in the game. There's no difference, and everything the Warcraft 3 Alchemist has is translated into Warcraft 3 professions. You have chemicals that boost your stats, chemicals that heal, transmutations of objects into gold.

[Unbelievable]

Or simply using the name just like Brewmasters. So saying they’re the same is semantics.



The lore isn’t all that different since Chen Stormstout is a master brewer, and actually trained multiple brewmaster vendors in Azeroth.

Student(s) Brewmaster Drohn

Did he teach him fighting techniques?
Vendors and class share the brewing but, not the martial arts. That is unique to the Pandaren.

[Teriz]

Because the Clawpacks themselves aren't really canon in WoW. The only reason they are in Reforged is because they already had the model remade.

They could be made official but so far it seems like that's not the direction Blizzard wants to go in with WoW. Otherwise it would have made total sense to add a Clawpack to Gazlowe considering he has it in both Heroes of the Storm and Reforged, right? Looks like WoW doesn't want to make that official though.

The Claw Packs are canon though, and as I've said before, Blizzard has a history of not showing the full abilities or attributes of a futue class until it actually enters the game.

Engineering stuff is Tinker stuff, since WoW treats them interchangeably. You can consider all the Engineering items as Tinker items. Tinkering is even a part of Engineering.

Uh no they don't. We actually have Tinker abilities in WoW currently and none of them can be created by the profession, and they're not items. So no, you can't use them interchangeably. Xplodium Charge for example can't be swapped out for a random engineering item.

I mean it's like saying WoW should be able to sell Alchemist stuff if they're the same as Warcraft 3 Alchemists. Well, actually they do, because they represent the same thing in the game. There's no difference, and everything the Warcraft 3 Alchemist has is translated into Warcraft 3 professions. You have chemicals that boost your stats, chemicals that heal, transmutations of objects into gold.

Again, the difference is that there is no Healing Spray in the Alchemy profession, yet there is a Healing Spray ability in WoW. Once again, if they were the same thing, then Healing Spray should be available in the profession. What you're arguing here makes no logical sense.

Also this argument would be like saying all of those Brewmaster vendors are actually the Brewmaster hero before the Monk class showed up in MoP. That argument would be silly then, and that argument is silly now.

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Student(s) Brewmaster Drohn

Did he teach him fighting techniques?
Vendors and class share the brewing but, not the martial arts.

Did you miss the point entirely? Brewmaster Drohn shares lore with Chen Stormstout. Based on the flawed logic you're using for Tinkers they should be one in the same.

Why aren't they?

[Triceron]

The Claw Packs are canon though

Nope, they don't appear anywhere in canon other than Reforged, which hasn't been formally considered canon. Reforged has a bunch of non-canon revisions and mistakes like adding the Ashbringer to one of the Paladins, Ogres living in Draenei huts and Nagas with human ears. We can't be certain of the Claw Pack and Tinkers just because they decided to add it to Gazlowe.

We actually have Tinker abilities in WoW currently and none of them can be created by the profession, and they're not items

Doesn't mean they're not the same thing.

WoW isn't a 1:1 translation of Warcraft 3, after all.

[Xeenith]

Because the Clawpacks themselves aren't really canon in WoW. The only reason they are in Reforged is because they already had the model remade.

They could be made official but so far it seems like that's not the direction Blizzard wants to go in with WoW. Otherwise it would have made total sense to add a Clawpack to Gazlowe considering he has it in both Heroes of the Storm and Reforged, right? Looks like WoW doesn't want to make that official though.



Engineering stuff is Tinker stuff, since WoW treats them interchangeably. You can consider all the Engineering items as Tinker items. Tinkering is even a part of Engineering.

I mean it's like saying WoW should be able to sell Alchemist stuff if they're the same as Warcraft 3 Alchemists. Well, actually they do, because they represent the same thing in the game. There's no difference, and everything the Warcraft 3 Alchemist has is translated into Warcraft 3 professions. You have chemicals that boost your stats, chemicals that heal, transmutations of objects into gold.

but... but... professions are not class !!!!!! REEEE!!

[Teriz]

Nope, they don't appear anywhere in canon other than Reforged, which hasn't been formally considered canon. Reforged has a bunch of non-canon revisions and mistakes like Ogres living in Draenei huts or Nagas with human ears; we can't be certain of the Claw Pack and Tinkers just because they decided to add it to Gazlowe.

Actually according to Blizzard, every Warcraft video game is canon, and something is only not canon in their games if one aspect of another game directly retcons an aspect in an older game.

Which sources are canon and non-canon?
Canon
Everything released by Blizzard except mods and the table-top RPG is considered canon.[1] This includes games, novels, short stories, manga, and comics[1][2] as well as trailers and cinematics. Warcraft Encyclopedia, History of Warcraft, game manuals and original Warcraft RTS games are also considered canon but in some cases they are overwritten or modified by novels (i.e. history of eredar retconned in Rise of the Horde, War of the Ancients and its aftermath slightly altered by the time-travel in the novel, Dawn of the Aspects revealing the true history of the Aspects instead of a legend told in a History chapter, and Tides of Darkness with Beyond the Dark Portal setting a canon line of events for the first RTS games which had two versions of the ending).
The current history of Warcraft was slightly retconned by the WoW Chronicle series.[3]
No longer available quests that were not replaced by new information should be canon.[4]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lore

So based on that, yes the Claw Pack is canon in Warcraft lore. It not appearing yet in WoW is irrelevant. Anything canon in Warcraft has the potential of showing up in WoW.

[Triceron]

So based on that, yes the Claw Pack is canon in Warcraft lore. It not appearing yet in WoW is irrelevant. Anything canon in Warcraft has the potential of showing up in WoW.

Reforged is a remake though, and this doesn't cover remakes, especially ones that have questionable anachronistic changes like what I mentioned above. Reforged was never stated as being canonized because they didn't go with abridging WoW lore like they said they would back in 2019; they just re-released the original campaign with the new models. That made for some really messed up anachronisms like Grom not having his full-black jaw tattooes which are still seen clearly in the Warcraft 3 Cinematics, and is the inspiration for Garrosh doing the same. In Reforged, Grom dies with his Warlords of Draenor 3 chin stripes design. This proves Reforged is not official canon; it is absolutely anachronistic to itself.

Besides, WoW is the definitive source of canon. It over-rides any historic additions because WoW is the latest iteration of lore, and there are no claw packs in WoW. The fact that Gazlowe doesn't use Claw Packs means they never really existed. Claw packs aren't official canon until they add them into WoW.

What is canon is Gazlowe being an Engineer, and his association to having a Claw Pack in other games like Heroes of the Storm would suggest that it isn't a Tinker-specific thing, but for Engineering in general since he is officially an Engineer. They don't even call him a Tinker in Heroes of the Storm, not once.

After the events of the Third War, Gazlowe was approached by Thrall to be the chief engineer in the building of Orgrimmar.

[Unbelievable]

The Claw Packs are canon though, and as I've said before, Blizzard has a history of not showing the full abilities or attributes of a futue class until it actually enters the game.



Uh no they don't. We actually have Tinker abilities in WoW currently and none of them can be created by the profession, and they're not items. So no, you can't use them interchangeably. Xplodium Charge for example can't be swapped out for a random engineering item.



Again, the difference is that there is no Healing Spray in the Alchemy profession, yet there is a Healing Spray ability in WoW. Once again, if they were the same thing, then Healing Spray should be available in the profession. What you're arguing here makes no logical sense.

Also this argument would be like saying all of those Brewmaster vendors are actually the Brewmaster hero before the Monk class showed up in MoP. That argument would be silly then, and that argument is silly now.

- - - Updated - - -



Did you miss the point entirely? Brewmaster Drohn shares lore with Chen Stormstout. Based on the flawed logic you're using for Tinkers they should be one in the same.

Why aren't they?

"Blizzard has a history of not showing the full abilities or attributes of a futue class until it actually enters the game." - good thing you acknowledge that. because that doesn't only apply to your Tinker and Alchemist but, also to Dark Ranger, Priestess of the Moon, Sea Witch, Shadow Hunter, Blademaster and Warden.

Actually, they can:

Goblin Mortar
Item Level 22
Binds when equipped
Trinket
Use: Inflicts 20 Fire damage and stuns the targets in a 5 yard radius for 3 sec. (10 Min Cooldown)
6 Charges
Requires Engineering (205)

"Also this argument would be like saying all of those Brewmaster vendors are actually the Brewmaster hero before the Monk class showed up in MoP. That argument would be silly then, and that argument is silly now." - which, you have been saying since this thread's inception.

Sharing lore with the Pandaren Brewmaster would have included martial arts. Tinkering has only one meaning - technology. Which, it shares with the Engineer. There is no hidden aspect like the Brewmasters have with the martial arts. If Brewmasters only meant one thing, then you would have a point.

[Teriz]

Reforged is a remake though, and this doesn't cover remakes, especially ones that have questionable anachronistic changes like what I mentioned above. Reforged was never stated as being canonized because they didn't go with abridging WoW lore like they said they would back in 2019; they just re-released the original campaign with the new models. That made for some really messed up anachronisms like Grom not having his full-black jaw tattooes which are still seen clearly in the Warcraft 3 Cinematics, and is the inspiration for Garrosh doing the same. In Reforged, Grom dies with his Warlords of Draenor 3 chin stripes design. This proves Reforged is not official canon; it is absolutely anachronistic to itself.

Besides, WoW is the definitive source of canon. It over-rides any historic additions because WoW is the latest iteration of lore, and there are no claw packs in WoW. The fact that Gazlowe doesn't use Claw Packs means they never really existed. Claw packs aren't official canon until they add them into WoW.

Uh, the Claw Pack was lore back in WC3, and was directly mentioned in the hero's lore. So yeah, it was canon back then. However, I would love for you to provide a source stating that WC3:R isn't canon.

[Triceron]

Uh, the Claw Pack was lore back in WC3, and was directly mentioned in the hero's lore.

The Tinker Hero? For Multiplayer?

Tavern Heroes aren't canon, lol. The flavour text on Mojo Stormstouts page aren't lore-based.

Do you really think Pit Lords in Taverns working for the Alliance, Horde and Night Elves is canon?

[Teriz]

Actually, they can:

Goblin Mortar
Item Level 22
Binds when equipped
Trinket
Use: Inflicts 20 Fire damage and stuns the targets in a 5 yard radius for 3 sec. (10 Min Cooldown)
6 Charges
Requires Engineering (205)

That's not Xplodium charge though. You picking up any explosive item and saying this is "X ability" from a class concept is like me saying that Black Arrow can be swapped out for Serpent Sting because they both cause DoT damage. Frankly I would have a better argument because Serpent Sting is actually a class ability, not an item with a 10 minute CD between uses.

"Also this argument would be like saying all of those Brewmaster vendors are actually the Brewmaster hero before the Monk class showed up in MoP. That argument would be silly then, and that argument is silly now." - which, you have been saying since this thread's inception.

Sharing lore with the Pandaren Brewmaster would have included martial arts. Tinkering has only one meaning - technology. Which, it shares with the Engineer. There is no hidden aspect like the Brewmasters have with the martial arts. If Brewmasters only meant one thing, then you would have a point.

Again, no difference. The Brewmaster isn't selling martial arts, and the Tinker isn't selling Tinker abilities and claw packs. However, unlike the Tinker, the Brewmaster has direct lore ties to Chen Stormstout. So I'll ask again, why aren't the Brewmaster vendor and Brewmaster Chen the same?

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The Tinker Hero? For Multiplayer?

Tavern Heroes aren't canon, lol. The flavour text on Mojo Stormstouts page aren't lore-based.

Do you really think Pit Lords in Taverns working for the Alliance, Horde and Night Elves is canon?

You're confusing a game mode for lore.

BTW, where's the statement from Blizzard saying that WC3:R isn't canon?

[Triceron]

You're confusing a game mode for lore.

Not really, custom maps and multiplayer game modes aren't canon.

Again, do you think Blizzard has canonized Pit Lords working for the Alliance and Horde just because they said the Games are canon? They never stated that game modes are canon.

And if it was, then WoW would canonize it. If it's not in WoW or in the Warcraft 3 singleplayer campaign, then it's not canon.

And if you use Gazlowe as the standard to canonize the Clawpack, then it means Engineers use Claw Packs.

[Teriz]

Not really, custom maps and multiplayer game modes aren't canon.

That's great, but we're not talking about custom maps and multiplayer game modes, we're talking about heroes and characters.

Speaking of heroes and characters, thanks for confirming that WC3:R is canon, thus confirming that Gazlowe is a Tinker that uses a claw pack, and that the claw pack is canon.

Again, do you think Blizzard has canonized Pit Lords working for the Alliance and Horde just because they said the Games are canon? They never stated that game modes are canon.

And if it was, then WoW would canonize it. If it's not in WoW or in the Warcraft 3 singleplayer campaign, then it's not canon.

Again, do you think it's canon that a group of Horde adventurers went around Azeroth and murdered all of the Alliance's leaders in order to earn a mount? Obviously game modes are canon lore. We're talking about a GAME. However, if a character appeared in a Warcraft game, that character is canonized.

The Tinker is such a character.

And if you use Gazlowe as the standard to canonize the Clawpack, then it means Engineers have Claw Packs.

Of course, Tinkers are a type of engineer.

[enigma77]

I don't want another new class. I want more cool stuff for existing classes.

[Triceron]

Speaking of heroes and characters, thanks for confirming that WC3:R is canon, thus confirming that Gazlowe is a Tinker that uses a claw pack, and that the claw pack is canon.

Where in any of the games is Gazlowe called a Tinker? lol.

Canonically speaking, any Engineer would be able to use claw packs.

[Teriz]

Where in any of the games is Gazlowe called a Tinker? lol.

Canonically speaking, any Engineer would be able to use claw packs.

That's not what the canon says. The canon states plainly that Tinkers use claw packs. If Gazlowe has one, then he is in fact a Tinker, regardless of his title.

[Revamp Man]

Blizzard isn’t going to use the mount models for class mechs though. In other words, even if Blizzard implemented Draenei Tinkers, they wouldn’t be piloting lightforged warframes.

oh really?? did you speak to blizzard about it??

[Teriz]

oh really?? did you speak to blizzard about it??

It's common sense. Classes tend to have unique models. A Tinker mech would also have a unique model.

[Stabbyfists]

You know, if you asked me 2 expansions ago if Tinker could be a possibility, i'd have called you batshit insane but with them making engineering more and more useless in the last 2 expansions, I could see Engineering going the way of First Aid, scopes and gadgets baked into Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing, and tinkerer becoming a real class.

I want it to be a MAIL wearing class - We already have 3 plate, 4 leather, and 3 cloth classes, we need a 3rd Mail class.

[Triceron]

If Gazlowe has one, then he is in fact a Tinker, regardless of his title.

Then Tinkers are Engineers, thus in WoW they are vendors. Canon is canon, right?

Tinkers and Engineers use Clawpacks in War3, Tinkers and Engineers in WoW are vendors. Seems legit to me.