If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

You know, if you asked me 2 expansions ago if Tinker could be a possibility, i'd have called you batshit insane but with them making engineering more and more useless in the last 2 expansions, I could see Engineering going the way of First Aid, scopes and gadgets baked into Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing, and tinkerer becoming a real class.

I want it to be a MAIL wearing class - We already have 3 plate, 4 leather, and 3 cloth classes, we need a 3rd Mail class.

The funny thing is that you don't even need to get rid of engineering. I would honestly give Tinkers a bonus to engineering and alchemy, and give alchemy and engineering professions recipes that specifically benefit the Tinker class.

For example, give engineers mods that effect the appearance of the Tinker claw packs and mechs. Alchemy could have potions that enhance the Tinker's resource/fuel. If done right, a Tinker class could actually create an interesting synergy between classes and professions.

[Sagenod]

Then Tinkers are Engineers, thus in WoW they are vendors. Canon is canon, right?

Tinkers and Engineers use Clawpacks in War3, Tinkers and Engineers in WoW are vendors. Seems legit to me.

This is for you and Teriz both, hopefully as a means of staving off this utterly pointless argument of semantics:

What we know about Tinkers in the World of Warcraft canon.

Not the strictest of parameters, yeah? Whether or not you choose to include WC3 Tinker canon, as diminutive as it is, in this argument is rather unimportant. What matters is that Tinkers are a type of engineer composed primarily of Gnomes, Goblins and Dwarves. It is more a title than anything else. They are not solely vendors and they are not specifically the battle-ready machinists from WC3. There is hardly any lore for them meaning there is room for new lore to be written. Because new lore can still be written. If it were a class in World of Warcraft we would see such new lore created and it's safe to assume the Tinkers from WC3 would inspire several of the class's abilities just like essentially every other WC3 Hero unit did.

[Revamp Man]

It's common sense. Classes tend to have unique models. A Tinker mech would also have a unique model.

so we have a class right now with a 100% unique base form that looks like nothing else in game?

[Teriz]

Then Tinkers are Engineers, thus in WoW they are vendors. Canon is canon, right?

Tinkers and Engineers use Clawpacks in War3, Tinkers and Engineers in WoW are vendors. Seems legit to me.

Except you're using semantics here, not canon.

For example, Gazlowe isn't an engineer, he's a Chief Engineer.

[Sagenod]

The funny thing is that you don't even need to get of engineering. I would honestly give Tinkers a bonus to engineering and alchemy, and give alchemy and engineering professions recipes that specifically benefit the Tinker class.

For example, give engineers mods that effect the appearance of the Tinker claw packs and mechs. Alchemy could have potions that enhance the Tinker's resource/fuel. If done right, a Tinker class could actually create an interesting synergy between classes and professions.

I think this would be cool if they were inclined to create synergies between other classes and professions as well. Don't just leave such a system for one class!

[Teriz]

so we have a class right now with a 100% unique base form that looks like nothing else in game?

You sound surprised. Blizzard creates unique animations, art assets and features for every new class it brings into the game.

I think this would be cool if they were inclined to create synergies between other classes and professions as well. Don't just leave such a system for one class!

It's kind of like that now with engineering crafting guns and only the Hunter class being able to use them.

But yeah, I do think that professions and classes could synch up a bit more. Especially if they have some thematic overlap. Enchanting should be a cakewalk for a Mage or a Warlock for example. Blacksmithing should come easy for Warriors. Druids should be able experts at herbalism. Monks and Rogues should have an easy time with Alchemy. Inscription should be second nature to Death Knights, etc.

[gonorrhea]

There is hardly any lore for them meaning there is room for new lore to be written. Because new lore can still be written. If it were a class in World of Warcraft we would see such new lore created and it's safe to assume the Tinkers from WC3 would inspire several of the class's abilities just like essentially every other WC3 Hero unit did.

Pretty much this.

Remember, if Monks and Pandaren were added to WoW, literally anything could be. Blizzard can and will retcon or expand lore from the broader Warcraft universe if they want to.

I would guess that Tinkers (or some other class derived from that idea) would be the most likely option out of a few ideas that float around, but who knows.

[Triceron]

Except you're using semantics here, not canon.

For example, Gazlowe isn't an engineer, he's a Chief Engineer.

You're trying to suggest a difference between an Engineer and a Chief Engineer, and you're criticizing me for using semantics? LOL

It is more a title than anything else. They are not solely vendors and they are not specifically the battle-ready machinists from WC3. There is hardly any lore for them meaning there is room for new lore to be written.

Oh, fully aware of this. My point is just that there are already Tinkers in the lore, and Tinkers in WoW.

Teriz is the only one denying the existence of Dwarf Tinkers that are already vendors in WoW. He's saying they can't be vendors at all, and that's simply not true from what we've seen.

[Teriz]

You're trying to suggest a difference between an Engineer and a Chief Engineer, and you're criticizing me for using semantics? LOL

Are you really trying to argue that there's not a difference between a Chief Engineer and a regular Engineer? Wouldn't a Chief Engineer have more experience and be a leader of engineers in general?

[Triceron]

Are you really trying to argue that there's not a difference between a Chief Engineer and a regular Engineer? Wouldn't a Chief Engineer have more experience and be a leader of engineers in general?

Let's be clear about the difference then, because the only difference I see is in Rank.

Can you tell me if a Chief Engineer isn't an Engineer by profession?

[Traveler Voltin]

what are we talking about?

[Teriz]

Let's be clear about the difference then, because the only difference I see is in Rank.

Can you tell me if a Chief Engineer isn't an Engineer by profession?

Not enough lore to say one way or another I'm afraid.

[Triceron]

Not enough lore to say one way or another I'm afraid.

Really? Looks pretty clear to me. Engineer Gazlowe with the clawpack.

[Ielenia]

1. They don’t have the same name as the abilities, they don’t function like the abilities, they’re items instead of abilities.

It doesn't matter if they don't have the exact same name and/or the exact same functionality. The core concepts are present within the professions: the engineer uses high-end technology like rockets and mechs, like the WC3 tinker. The alchemist uses powerful concoctions and can perform transmutations, like the WC3 alchemist.

2. Tinker and Alchemist would have to be the only heroes from WC3 to be made into professions.

And what would be the problem with that? I mean, objectively, what would be the problem if those two WC3 units were turned into professions?

But again, none of their abilities or attributes appear in the professions.

That doesn't prove anything. And, again, read what I wrote at the beginning of my post.

Meanwhile there were multiple alchemy and engineering items in the item system of WC3.

Engineering has a lot of rockets. The icon for the engineering profession is the same icon as the WC3 tinker's engineering upgrade icon. Alchemy can perform transmutations, a feature of the WC3 alchemist unit.

The only thing the professions add is the ability to make them. Something no WC3 hero has anything to do with.

Warcraft 3 and WoW are very different games.

So what? There’s nothing in engineering called that,

Other than the fact that the engineering profession can literally "upgrade" your gear using "engineering". Y'know, give yourself an "engineering upgrade"?

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No different than Brewmasters....

Very different from brewmasters. The brewmaster vendors aren't monks. They're just experts in the preparations of brews, drinks.

The tinker and engineer vendors? They're actually tinkers and engineers.

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And the Tinker vendors aren't inventors and adventurers.

How do you know that? Seriously, where is the source for this claim? You're making a wild, baseless claim, citing arbitrary requirements.

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Did you miss the point entirely? Brewmaster Drohn shares lore with Chen Stormstout.

The only lore the two share is Chen teaching Drohn how to prepare beers and other drinks. Nothing about drunken martial arts, as far as we know.

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So based on that, yes the Claw Pack is canon in Warcraft lore. It not appearing yet in WoW is irrelevant. Anything canon in Warcraft has the potential of showing up in WoW.

Then you have to explain why Gazlowe has not been seen with a claw pack since Orgrimmar was founded, especially since he has been in the front lines several times with nothing but... well, nothing. No mech, no claw pack, nothing.

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Uh, the Claw Pack was lore back in WC3, and was directly mentioned in the hero's lore. So yeah, it was canon back then.

No. No, it was not. Not in Warcraft 3, considering that hero was a multiplayer-only feature that never appeared in the campaigns.

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That's not what the canon says. The canon states plainly that Tinkers use claw packs. If Gazlowe has one, then he is in fact a Tinker, regardless of his title.

Gazlowe has never been demonstrated as having one, though. Ever.

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It's common sense. Classes tend to have unique models. A Tinker mech would also have a unique model.

Funny. The only class with a different model is the demon hunter. A dk looks like any other plate-wearing class, and monks look like any other leather-wearing class.

[Teriz]

Really? Looks pretty clear to me. Engineer Gazlowe with the clawpack.

Nice mod.

[Traveler Voltin]

that is a mod for sure. he used a Goblin sapper model in the original.

[Teriz]

It doesn't matter if they don't have the exact same name and/or the exact same functionality. The core concepts are present within the professions: the engineer uses high-end technology like rockets and mechs, like the WC3 tinker. The alchemist uses powerful concoctions and can perform transmutations, like the WC3 alchemist.

Uh yes it does. If they don’t have the same name, the same functionality, and aren’t even abilities, they’re not the same, period.

This is even more so the case because we have the actual Tinker abilities in WoW and they’re not in the profession at all.

No. No, it was not. Not in Warcraft 3, considering that hero was a multiplayer-only feature that never appeared in the campaigns.

Yes, even in WC3.

We know this because Blizzard went on to showcase the Tinker as a class in other media like both of their table top RPGs that were originally canon;

So we start with the WC3 Tinker;



Then we have the Warcraft and WoW RPGs;



Their CCG game;



Heroes of the Storm:



And full circle back to WC3:R




And just FYI, Warcraft 3: Reforged is canon. Interesting that such a device would show up rather repeatedly over the span of almost 2 decades.

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Funny. The only class with a different model is the demon hunter. A dk looks like any other plate-wearing class, and monks look like any other leather-wearing class.

You mean other than the unique undead appearances for all DK races, the unique mount, the unique starting armor, the unique spells/abilities, etc?

With Monks, how about those monk animations for each race? How about all those unique abilities and spells? How about that exclusive training zone in Pandaria with exclusive gear?

[Triceron]

Nice mod.

Not a mod in Reforged, it's canon. Also, looks like Engineer Gazlowe is not only uses the Tinker model; he's also a Vendor

[Revamp Man]

You sound surprised. Blizzard creates unique animations, art assets and features for every new class it brings into the game.



It's kind of like that now with engineering crafting guns and only the Hunter class being able to use them.

But yeah, I do think that professions and classes could synch up a bit more. Especially if they have some thematic overlap. Enchanting should be a cakewalk for a Mage or a Warlock for example. Blacksmithing should come easy for Warriors. Druids should be able experts at herbalism. Monks and Rogues should have an easy time with Alchemy. Inscription should be second nature to Death Knights, etc.

no no no

answer me

does the druid have a 100% unique base model used nowhere else in the game??
do the demon hunter transformations not have anything similar in the game??

wait they do dont they??

its almost as though blizzard reuses stuff

omg its almost like this point you have has been debunked in game already and you just ignore it for the boner you have for the midget tinker races

[Teriz]

no no no

answer me

does the druid have a 100% unique base model used nowhere else in the game??
do the demon hunter transformations not have anything similar in the game??

wait they do dont they??

its almost as though blizzard reuses stuff

omg its almost like this point you have has been debunked in game already and you just ignore it for the boner you have for the midget tinker races

Actually Demon Hunter meta form is 100% a new model with a new skeleton.

However I never made that argument in the first place. I simply said that new classes get new art assets, unique animations, and features for every new class. From undead skins for Death Knights, to unique martial art animations for monks, to brand new Metamorphosis models for demon hunters.

My point was to not expect them to use existing models (especially not the mounts) for any potential Tinker mechs. Further if they go with the Claw Pack, that would be 100% a brand new model.