1. #5861
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You’re missing the point; The vast majority of notable Goblins and Gnomes are piloting mechs. What an NPC is currently labeled as is irrelevant. What is relevant is that fighting inside a robot is fairly common practice in the Goblin and Gnome races. Hell, BOTH the faction leaders fight inside mechs.

    Additionally, and perhaps most relevant of all is the FACT that every single expansion class got their WC3 ultimate ability translated into WoW (DKs got 2). Why would the Tinker NOT get its ultimate WC3 ability?
    Nowhere in lore does it state only goblins and gnomes can be tinkers. And who is notable gnomes and goblins? Literally only one single lore tinker uses a mech. EVERY Other one of those "notable goblins and gnomes" is a class other than tinker and the only notable tinkers besides Gelbin don't use mechs. If anything your "proof" shows that a mech should be a racial ability and not a class one then.

    None of the class abilities have been perfectly translated into wow they all have different balancing issues. Blizzard gave some spells some known names so its possible robo-goblin if it ever became a class ability would just be a temp buff skill like in hots. Just because you want something doesn't mean its going to happen.

  2. #5862
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then blame Blizzard for being lazy. This has anything to do with classes using vehicular combat in their Class mechanics.



    Robogoblin was a form. Not a vehicle.

    "Transforms the Tinker into a Robo-Goblin, a powerful armored form that has the following traits:"
    Also ignoring that the current vehicle mechanic isn't made to support general PVE or PVP (only being used in specific quests or bosses) Vehicles are world objects, that you enter & exist manually (instead how you can exit druid form by casting a non-form usable form ability), can only use a limited selection of abilities (like six at most) and provide essentially a second healthbar.

    Any kind of "Vehicle mechanic" for a potential Tinker would in all likelihood fit into the same general mechanics as other shapeshifts maybe with it's own restrictions, just because it's a new class doesn't mean it has to have a super gameplay altering mechanic, they didn't ship Monks with the original idea for it lacking an auto attack, DK's had blood, unholy, death and frost runes removed to simplify their resource system, Demon Hunters didn't really launch with anything beyond gimmicks like double jump, spectral or glide which while unique don't alter the general gameplay all that much

  3. #5863
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
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    Anyone ever saw gnomes or goblins in expansion cinematics? (so i would not be bothered to look for them)



    EDIT: ye ye , i know i lazy Slayer.
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2021-04-19 at 12:10 AM.
    Please, there a perfect example of hypocritical thinking:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If Tinkers had anything to do with Hunters, but they don’t. Unlike Bards which are linked to Rogues.

  4. #5864
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Nowhere in lore does it state only goblins and gnomes can be tinkers.
    Where did I make that argument?

    And who is notable gnomes and goblins?
    Gazlowe, Mekkatorque, Gallywix, Madds, Nogginfogger, Razdunk, Boss Mira, Thermaplugg, Blackfuse, The Gob Squad, etc.

    Literally only one single lore tinker uses a mech. EVERY Other one of those "notable goblins and gnomes" is a class other than tinker and the only notable tinkers besides Gelbin don't use mechs. If anything your "proof" shows that a mech should be a racial ability and not a class one then.
    Gazlowe uses the Tinker abilities from HotS in the Island Expeditions in WoW, and is the Tinker hero in HotS. How is that not proof?

    None of the class abilities have been perfectly translated into wow they all have different balancing issues. Blizzard gave some spells some known names so its possible robo-goblin if it ever became a class ability would just be a temp buff skill like in hots. Just because you want something doesn't mean its going to happen.
    They have all had their basic thematic retained;

    DK:
    Animate Dead: AoE raising of undead
    Army of the dead (WoW): AoE raising of the undead
    Death and Decay: ground targeted AoE that deals damage over time
    Death and Decay (WoW) ground targeted AoE that deals damage over time

    Monk:
    Storm Earth Fire: splits into three different elemental fighters
    Storm Earth Fire (WoW): splits into three different elemental fighters

    DH:
    Metamorphosis: transforms into a demon
    Metamorphosis: (WoW) transforms into a demon

    So, the Tinkers WC3 ultimate is piloting a mech. Why would the WoW ability deviate?

  5. #5865
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Where did I make that argument?



    Gazlowe, Mekkatorque, Gallywix, Madds, Nogginfogger, Razdunk, Boss Mira, Thermaplugg, Blackfuse, The Gob Squad, etc.



    Gazlowe uses the Tinker abilities from HotS in the Island Expeditions in WoW, and is the Tinker hero in HotS. How is that not proof?



    They have all had their basic thematic retained;

    DK:
    Animate Dead: AoE raising of undead
    Army of the dead (WoW): AoE raising of the undead
    Death and Decay: ground targeted AoE that deals damage over time
    Death and Decay (WoW) ground targeted AoE that deals damage over time

    Monk:
    Storm Earth Fire: splits into three different elemental fighters
    Storm Earth Fire (WoW): splits into three different elemental fighters

    DH:
    Metamorphosis: transforms into a demon
    Metamorphosis: (WoW) transforms into a demon

    So, the Tinkers ultimate is piloting a mech. Why would the WoW ability deviate?
    When you said because some goblins and gnomes use mechs that means its because they are tinkers.

    Gazlowe is officially an engineer and as a hero npc uses skills that normal player classes don't use much like Anduin and Gallywix. Hots isn't canon. Blizzard can take ideas from HoTS but that doesn't mean HotS is canon. Or are we going to get an expansion where we hang out with Overwatch and the Protoss?

    Yes they have the basic theme because of names. You aren't going to have a skill called landmine summon a massive dragon that heals you. That would be incredibly retarded. You're going to have a skill called landmine do some sort of explosion.

  6. #5866
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    When you said because some goblins and gnomes use mechs that means its because they are tinkers.
    No, I’m saying that in regards to Gazlowe. I’m pointing out the commonality of Goblins and Gnomes piloting mechs in WoW to show why such an ability would exist in a tech class largely run by Goblins and Gnomes.

    Gazlowe is officially an engineer and as a hero npc uses skills that normal player classes don't use much like Anduin and Gallywix. Hots isn't canon. Blizzard can take ideas from HoTS but that doesn't mean HotS is canon. Or are we going to get an expansion where we hang out with Overwatch and the Protoss?
    So if Blizzard is taking abilities from HotS and placing them in WoW, are those abilities now canon?

    As for the engineering label, considering that we have no idea what a technology class in WoW would be called (we just say Tinker out of convience), Gazlowe being currently labeled an engineer is inconsequential, since members of this class would be engineers.

    Yes they have the basic theme because of names. You aren't going to have a skill called landmine summon a massive dragon that heals you that would be incredibly retarded. Your going to have a skill called landmine do some sort of explosion.
    I have absolutely no idea what that comment has to do with what I stated above.

  7. #5867
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Blizzard never outright states they’re bringing a class in the game, they tend to give hints leading up to the class’ release. We have such hints for the Tinker class, and they line up with hints for previous class releases.
    What were the hints for the death knight class, the monk class, and the demon hunter class? I'm curious.

    Considering that the Iron Horde was armed with Blackfuse Goblin tech, I would say yes.
    Except the overwhelming majority of the Iron Horde was wielding simple weapons (axes and the like) or using elemental magic. Sone used guns, but that's it. Actual "high-end technology" we only saw after the Legion took over with the Iron Reaver, because the rest? This famous "Blackfuse Goblin tech"? All we saw were steam engines.
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  8. #5868
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We can only consider Blizzard lazy if the evidence matched your premise.

    It doesn’t.
    Then we know the design is intentional to leave vehicular combat out of Class design.

    The “form” is a Goblin inside a mecha tank.
    Yes, visually it is. It Transforms into a mecha tank. I don't see how that equates to vehicular combat, since we know vehicles are types of mounts.

  9. #5869
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The thing is Blizzard created an ability in WC3 for a hero unit that had the hero piloting a vehicle. In the TTRPG, there was the Steamwarrior class that also allowed you to control a vehicle into combat. In BFA, we got multiple NPC abilities that would facilitate such a class ability.
    WC3 is not WoW. Different games, different mechanics.
    TTRPG is not WoW. Different games, different mechanics.
    NPCs are not players. Different rules apply.
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  10. #5870
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What were the hints for the death knight class, the monk class, and the demon hunter class? I'm curious.
    We’ve already been through this and you deny every single example regardless of the evidence. There’s really no point in going over it again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then we know the design is intentional to leave vehicular combat out of Class design.
    This despite the Island Expedition teams having multiple mech based abilities with level requirements....



    Yes, visually it is. It Transforms into a mecha tank. I don't see how that equates to vehicular combat, since we know vehicles are types of mounts.
    The Claw Pack transforms into a mech and the Goblin hops inside it. While inside it the Goblin has higher armor and increased movement speed. I don’t see how that doesn’t translate to vehicular combat.

  11. #5871
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We’ve already been through this and you deny every single example regardless of the evidence. There’s really no point in going over it again.
    No. No, we have not. This is the first time I remember seeing you mention "class hints", so I'm curious what were the "hints" for the death knight, monk, and demon hunter classes.

    And by the way: unrelated stuff like "Naxxramas DKs" and "pandaren pets" are not hints of a new class. Otherwise the night elf dark rangers are hints of a dark ranger class. And the whole "music has power" thing in Shadowlands is a hint for the bard class.

    Show me tangible, conclusive hints, not vague mentions.
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  12. #5872
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    This despite the Island Expedition teams having multiple mech based abilities with level requirements....
    Were they in vehicles?

    Using mech abilities is fine if it's in a form. Nothing wrong with activating a mech form.

    As I said, vehicular combat isn't happening.

    The Claw Pack transforms into a mech and the Goblin hops inside it. While inside it the Goblin has higher armor and increased movement speed. I don’t see how that doesn’t translate to vehicular combat.
    Claw Packs don't even exist in WoW, how could any of this happen without a Claw Pack in WoW?

    Not even the Island Expedition NPCs use Claw Packs.

  13. #5873
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Were they in vehicles? Or were they mech forms?
    I would consider a Goblin or Gnome inside a mech to also be inside a vehicle.

    NPCs also aren't bound to Player class mechanics. We have Death Knight NPCs who fight mounted too, whereas our DK's can not.
    Those NPC abilities had level requirements. Typically only class abilities have level requirements. To date, those abilities among the “Tinkers” in Island Expedition remain the only non-class NPC abilities that had that feature.



    Claw Packs don't even exist in WoW, how could any of this happen without a Claw Pack in WoW?
    Plenty of WC3 abilities didn’t exist in WoW until the class entered the game.

    Not even the Island Expedition NPCs use Claw Packs.
    See above.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No. No, we have not. This is the first time I remember seeing you mention "class hints", so I'm curious what were the "hints" for the death knight, monk, and demon hunter classes.
    Oh yes we have, and like I said I have no interest in going through this with you again.

  14. #5874
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The Claw Pack transforms into a mech and the Goblin hops inside it. While inside it the Goblin has higher armor and increased movement speed. I don’t see how that doesn’t translate to vehicular combat.
    Because you keep constantly ignoring the fact that "vehicular combat" is not going to happen as a player class feature, because of the advantages one would have over it. Off the top of my head: two health bars, which is incredibly OP in both PvE and PvP. And also, immunity to fall damage: vehicles take no fall damage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Oh yes we have, and like I said I have no interest in going through this with you again.
    Because it's all bogus, as I've pointed out in that same post.
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  15. #5875
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Yeah
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Because you keep constantly ignoring the fact that "vehicular combat" is not going to happen as a player class feature, because of the advantages one would have over it. Off the top of my head: two health bars, which is incredibly OP in both PvE and PvP. And also, immunity to fall damage: vehicles take no fall damage.
    If that’s OP wouldn’t Blizzard simply not give them two health bars and have them take fall damage? Blizzard has direct control over those aspects of the game. You’re acting like those are some inherent, unchangeable property outside of Blizzard’s control.

  16. #5876
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah

    If that’s OP wouldn’t Blizzard simply not give them two health bars and have them take fall damage? Blizzard has direct control over those aspects of the game. You’re acting like those are some inherent, unchangeable property outside of Blizzard’s control.
    Because at that point it's no longer "vehicular combat" and it's just the player transformed into another shape, like a druid.
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  17. #5877
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Because at that point it's no longer "vehicular combat" and it's just the player transformed into another shape, like a druid.
    Two health bars and no damage from falls hardly encapsulates the experience of vehicular combat. You could take reduced damage from falls (similar to Rogue/Feral passive and the Pandaren racial), and have Eject instead of two health bars and you’ll get largely the same effect.

  18. #5878
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I would consider a Goblin or Gnome inside a mech to also be inside a vehicle.
    Then you're using the wrong terms.

    We have a definition of what vehicles are in WoW, and it's not just an opinion thing.

    Plenty of WC3 abilities didn’t exist in WoW until the class entered the game.
    Sure, but Claw Packs aren't an ability. It's a cosmetic thing, like Brewmasters not having their giant keg offhands like Chen does in WC3 and Heroes of the Storm.

    If you're talking about more utility beyond that, it'd be even less likely to be added considering they stopped adding unique class features like that since they took out the 3-tank/dps spec for DK, gutted the Rune system to be homogenized, took out no Auto Attack gameplay from Monk, and got rid of fistweaving entirely.

    Clawpacks just don't fit in the modern design of WoW.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-04-19 at 02:07 AM.

  19. #5879
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then you're using the wrong terms.

    We have a definition of what vehicles are in WoW, and it's not just an opinion thing.
    If the form is a character inside a vehicle, why can’t we consider the character to be in the vehicle? To say a character isn’t in a vehicle because it doesn’t fit your definition is kind of silly.



    Sure, but Claw Packs aren't an ability. It's a cosmetic thing, like Brewmasters not having their giant keg offhands like Chen does in WC3 and Heroes of the Storm.
    Or like the Brewmaster’s staff which the Brewmaster had in WC3, yet didn’t appear until the Monk class entered WoW?

    Clawpacks just don't fit in the modern design of WoW.
    You’re certainly welcome to that opinion.

  20. #5880
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Sometimes i don't even know the discussions, are people literally denying the possibility of tinker? they are as much possible or ever more as any other class idea by now, i don't know why so much discussion

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