Should TBC come with a gold wipe? Why or why not?

[ymirsson]

So whats the problem with farming shit yourself? Why would any random scrub need to be able to buy his raid needs for money equal to a daily quest reward?
And if so, why not make away with gold alltogether? Why not simply remove gold from the game if it is so problematic?

[erifwodahs]

I mean if you look at it intelligently the only answer is a gold limit per copy and one copy per character per server. That is it and the problem is solved and I guarantee that is how they will be doing it.

I would think they will just open two sets of realms with transfers available only in the same set for the first 6 months or so.

Classic continuation - players are free to copy/transfer characters
Classic TBC - only new characters from fresh start.

This would be the cleanest, least amount of error thing to do with no limits/transfers/presets and so on.

[clevin]

1500g is a very low sum of gold tbh. A goldcap on transfer would benefit you GREATLY! As the cap would likely land alot higher than 1500g.

Id be fine with a 5k gold cap.

What ppl want to avoid is to have the tbc economy superinfluenced by players who have amassed over 10-200k gold (and im not talking about a few players here, theres alot of very rich players in classic). The effect of that would be that sought after crafting materials would increase in ah cost many fold.

5000g isn't a gold wipe. And my point is not that I have a lot of gold but that, with VERY minimal effort, even I have 1500g. So if you're really talking a wipe - no more than something like 50 or 100g - you're taking the gold of a LOT of people. For what? Because some of you chose not to play? Tough shit, that's not my problem.

One of the basics of game design is that you don't arbitrarily punish players or take things away from them just because. Choices need to have consequences (you didnt move out of the fire, so you died). A choice to NOT do something is no less a choice than a choice to DO something.

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I really hope it's a fresh start just so I can drink the tears of the no-lifers who spent 10 hours a day for 9 months farming gold because they have nothing better to do with their lives.

This is the real reason most of you want to gold wipe and it's pathetic. You try to impugn those who have some gold as having nothing better to do with their lives... and don't realize the irony of that as you post that thought here.

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Yes.

Imagine forcing people to play classic for several months before BC launches just to get ahead with gold..

Imagine being the kind of person who thinks others should bear the consequences of their decision.

[Mosha]

So whats the problem with farming shit yourself? Why would any random scrub need to be able to buy his raid needs for money equal to a daily quest reward?
And if so, why not make away with gold alltogether? Why not simply remove gold from the game if it is so problematic?

I don't even know how to approach this train of thought. What are you even saying?

Also I love how you just say “go farm the shit yourself” when the things you need to farm are primals. Go ahead, try to farm primals yourself with no flying mount/epic flying in a world where blizzard leaves bots up nonstop. You go tell me how easy it is.

[Unholyground]

I would think they will just open two sets of realms with transfers available only in the same set for the first 6 months or so.

Classic continuation - players are free to copy/transfer characters
Classic TBC - only new characters from fresh start.

This would be the cleanest, least amount of error thing to do with no limits/transfers/presets and so on.

1 copy per character per server with a gold limit of like 2500 is about fair. That is it, no other issues can arise from that and the AH is self regulating based on the total economy anyways.

It literally doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

[ymirsson]

I don't even know how to approach this train of thought. What are you even saying?

Also I love how you just say “go farm the shit yourself” when the things you need to farm are primals. Go ahead, try to farm primals yourself with no flying mount/epic flying in a world where blizzard leaves bots up nonstop. You go tell me how easy it is.

So noone will be able to zone into a raid without a certain amount of primals farmed?

[Mosha]

So noone will be able to zone into a raid without a certain amount of primals farmed?

Whenever you’re done making ridiculous statements and want to have an honest conversation just let me know!

[ymirsson]

Whenever you’re done making ridiculous statements and want to have an honest conversation just let me know!

The only thing ridiculous is the amount of assumptions you make about the need for a gold wipe for TBC servers.

[Mosha]

The only thing ridiculous is the amount of assumptions you make about the need for a gold wipe for TBC servers.

If you would like to point out specific things you disagree with, by all means please do so.

[Baneto]

7 pages later and still no reasonable argument for a "gold-wipe".

Sounds like something extremely rich people do with expensive toilet "paper".

[willtron]

No, terrible idea. They didnt do it with the expac release, why would you do it now?

[DuskSP]

Yes. But it will just be amassed again by botters and farmers. Gold selling in classic is bigger then its ever been. Its huge. Now everyone is old and has money but no time.

But will it happen no. They will never do that.

[Mosha]

7 pages later and still no reasonable argument for a "gold-wipe".

Sounds like something extremely rich people do with expensive toilet "paper".

Then you haven't been reading very much.

[ymirsson]

If you would like to point out specific things you disagree with, by all means please do so.

As if i didnt tell you twice before.
The amount of gold on the server is meaningless for the average player. If you have to pay more for consumables, you can also earn more money for your own gatherings/crafts.
We can ignore people who do no want to participate in a reasonable amount of either gathering materials or processing of those because those activities are far more valuable then an equivalent time of daily quests.


The actual problems arise from bots or other farmers capable to control sizeable amounts of a market. They amass money but that's a symptom of a broken system, not the means to achieve a broken system. Bots or hardcore farmers will simply always pull ahead of other players, that is their singular goal.

So, either kill the attachment of a presumably great part of the playerbase, by restricting/removing their possessions, to slow down the inevitable unfairness of a non realistic economic model or find a different solution.

How long would it realistically take if there were fresh servers with an equal starting point (no matter if its lvl 1 or 58 or 79) to have a market as fucked as it is presumably now?

[Mosha]

As if i didnt tell you twice before.
The amount of gold on the server is meaningless for the average player. If you have to pay more for consumables, you can also earn more money for your own gatherings/crafts.
We can ignore people who do no want to participate in a reasonable amount of either gathering materials or processing of those because those activities are far more valuable then an equivalent time of daily quests.


The actual problems arise from bots or other farmers capable to control sizeable amounts of a market. They amass money but that's a symptom of a broken system, not the means to achieve a broken system. Bots or hardcore farmers will simply always pull ahead of other players, that is their singular goal.

So, either kill the attachment of a presumably great part of the playerbase, by restricting/removing their possessions, to slow down the inevitable unfairness of a non realistic economic model or find a different solution.

How long would it realistically take if there were fresh servers with an equal starting point (no matter if its lvl 1 or 58 or 79) to have a market as fucked as it is presumably now?

And I explained multiple times why I said it isn’t just as easy as “just go out and farm it” to a new player with no epic flying. There’s almost no way to compete or even realistically gather any of these resources, ESPECIALLY mining nodes/herbs.

People who are new WILL just buy gold, or they will suffer. Making epic flying basically a necessity or you won’t be able to play that aspect of the game.

How long do I think it will take on a fresh server? Unless there is a massive new discovery for raw gold farming then I would say about a year or so. Not saying it will take that long and it will be fine the whole way through, it will obviously get progressively worse. It’s tough to say but I don’t see it being significantly faster than classic, possibly even slower.

The reason I say this which might sound crazy is because the thing that creates inflation, is raw gold farms. That’s it. Blizzard introduces dailies which will bring in a lot of raw gold farm, but that gold farm is no where even comparable to what some people can do in classic. Some mages can make hundreds in an hour easily just off raw gold farming. Tbc has aoe caps that might hinder these raw aoe gold farms, also with how instances works they can’t walk into random end level instances and farm their own, uncontested mobs like you can in classic.

The raw gold farms in tbc will be out in the world, where the mobs are more contested.

100 mages can sit in their own ZGs and aoe farm all day long with no problems. Even if there is a great aoe farming spot in tbc, people will be fighting over that spot.

But like I said, this is all unless there is this massive discovery for a massive amount of raw gold farm.

[Baneto]

Then you haven't been reading very much.

I have read it all, and still not one compelling realistic argument has been made in favor of any "gold-wipe".

[Inoculate]

I played a bit of classic but found I preferred the memories I had in vanilla. The community changed and so the game has also. The same world but optimization ruined it for me. Not saying it's shite and shouldnt exist, I'm happy others can enjoy it.

The problem is that new blood cant enter if they dont gold cap. Inflation is already a thing and trying to start fresh is very tough to do but on the same token, taking gold others earned is shitty too.

Blizzard is in a very tough position at this point. Probably best to just keep the current classic community happy and let them keep their stuff instead of worrying about future customers as they'd probably be happier in retaip anyways.

[Djuntas]

Fresh restart preferd, but I dont care really.

[clevin]

Then you haven't been reading very much.

They said 'reasonable'. They're right. Every argument I've read has been either "what about people who didnt play classic" or some vague 'I think it would be better for the game". The former is idiotic for reasons stated above and the latter is unsupported opinion.

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The problem is that new blood cant enter if they dont gold cap. .

Sure it can. People (millions!) started in TBC not having played vanilla and it worked fine. The fact is you don't NEED a lot of gold in either classic or TBC. The only common thing that people want in TBC that costs more than nominal amounts of gold is epic flight and we all know - and have known for 13+ years - that it's there and costs 5k.

[Ilhom]

If the economy isn't reset or limited in some way then all PvE content will be tremendously trivialized. People will be clearing T5 with Naxx + crafted BiS gear within 2-3 weeks, especially if all of the T4/T5 nerfs from 2.1 -> 2.4.3 are in place. There are people creating hoards of profession alts that will be Tailoring cloth and Primal Might transmute slaves. There are people hoarding Azeroth gems to level JC on day 1. There are people hoarding Thorium to get BS weapons on day 1 of lvl70.

Resetting the economy isn't to fuck over the "hardcore" players. It's to preserve the health of the game. There are 2 viable options to not ruin the experience.

1) Start fresh. I believe Blizzard will likely create a few new servers for this type of experience since it will be cheap + easy for them to do. I hope that they lock down transfers and don't allow anyone to go to these new servers.
2) Transfer characters to TBC realms, but only allow gear and X amount of gold. There also needs to be a limit on the amount of characters so professions aren't abused. This one is likely what they are gonna do because they need to incentivize people to farm Naxx so they can keep the subscriptions active.