Should TBC come with a gold wipe? Why or why not?

[Mosha]

The only thing ridiculous is the amount of assumptions you make about the need for a gold wipe for TBC servers.

If you would like to point out specific things you disagree with, by all means please do so.

[Baneto]

7 pages later and still no reasonable argument for a "gold-wipe".

Sounds like something extremely rich people do with expensive toilet "paper".

[willtron]

No, terrible idea. They didnt do it with the expac release, why would you do it now?

[Drench]

Yes. But it will just be amassed again by botters and farmers. Gold selling in classic is bigger then its ever been. Its huge. Now everyone is old and has money but no time.

But will it happen no. They will never do that.

[Mosha]

7 pages later and still no reasonable argument for a "gold-wipe".

Sounds like something extremely rich people do with expensive toilet "paper".

Then you haven't been reading very much.

[ymirsson]

If you would like to point out specific things you disagree with, by all means please do so.

As if i didnt tell you twice before.
The amount of gold on the server is meaningless for the average player. If you have to pay more for consumables, you can also earn more money for your own gatherings/crafts.
We can ignore people who do no want to participate in a reasonable amount of either gathering materials or processing of those because those activities are far more valuable then an equivalent time of daily quests.


The actual problems arise from bots or other farmers capable to control sizeable amounts of a market. They amass money but that's a symptom of a broken system, not the means to achieve a broken system. Bots or hardcore farmers will simply always pull ahead of other players, that is their singular goal.

So, either kill the attachment of a presumably great part of the playerbase, by restricting/removing their possessions, to slow down the inevitable unfairness of a non realistic economic model or find a different solution.

How long would it realistically take if there were fresh servers with an equal starting point (no matter if its lvl 1 or 58 or 79) to have a market as fucked as it is presumably now?

[Mosha]

As if i didnt tell you twice before.
The amount of gold on the server is meaningless for the average player. If you have to pay more for consumables, you can also earn more money for your own gatherings/crafts.
We can ignore people who do no want to participate in a reasonable amount of either gathering materials or processing of those because those activities are far more valuable then an equivalent time of daily quests.


The actual problems arise from bots or other farmers capable to control sizeable amounts of a market. They amass money but that's a symptom of a broken system, not the means to achieve a broken system. Bots or hardcore farmers will simply always pull ahead of other players, that is their singular goal.

So, either kill the attachment of a presumably great part of the playerbase, by restricting/removing their possessions, to slow down the inevitable unfairness of a non realistic economic model or find a different solution.

How long would it realistically take if there were fresh servers with an equal starting point (no matter if its lvl 1 or 58 or 79) to have a market as fucked as it is presumably now?

And I explained multiple times why I said it isn’t just as easy as “just go out and farm it” to a new player with no epic flying. There’s almost no way to compete or even realistically gather any of these resources, ESPECIALLY mining nodes/herbs.

People who are new WILL just buy gold, or they will suffer. Making epic flying basically a necessity or you won’t be able to play that aspect of the game.

How long do I think it will take on a fresh server? Unless there is a massive new discovery for raw gold farming then I would say about a year or so. Not saying it will take that long and it will be fine the whole way through, it will obviously get progressively worse. It’s tough to say but I don’t see it being significantly faster than classic, possibly even slower.

The reason I say this which might sound crazy is because the thing that creates inflation, is raw gold farms. That’s it. Blizzard introduces dailies which will bring in a lot of raw gold farm, but that gold farm is no where even comparable to what some people can do in classic. Some mages can make hundreds in an hour easily just off raw gold farming. Tbc has aoe caps that might hinder these raw aoe gold farms, also with how instances works they can’t walk into random end level instances and farm their own, uncontested mobs like you can in classic.

The raw gold farms in tbc will be out in the world, where the mobs are more contested.

100 mages can sit in their own ZGs and aoe farm all day long with no problems. Even if there is a great aoe farming spot in tbc, people will be fighting over that spot.

But like I said, this is all unless there is this massive discovery for a massive amount of raw gold farm.

[Baneto]

Then you haven't been reading very much.

I have read it all, and still not one compelling realistic argument has been made in favor of any "gold-wipe".

[Inoculate]

I played a bit of classic but found I preferred the memories I had in vanilla. The community changed and so the game has also. The same world but optimization ruined it for me. Not saying it's shite and shouldnt exist, I'm happy others can enjoy it.

The problem is that new blood cant enter if they dont gold cap. Inflation is already a thing and trying to start fresh is very tough to do but on the same token, taking gold others earned is shitty too.

Blizzard is in a very tough position at this point. Probably best to just keep the current classic community happy and let them keep their stuff instead of worrying about future customers as they'd probably be happier in retaip anyways.

[Djuntas]

Fresh restart preferd, but I dont care really.

[clevin]

Then you haven't been reading very much.

They said 'reasonable'. They're right. Every argument I've read has been either "what about people who didnt play classic" or some vague 'I think it would be better for the game". The former is idiotic for reasons stated above and the latter is unsupported opinion.

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The problem is that new blood cant enter if they dont gold cap. .

Sure it can. People (millions!) started in TBC not having played vanilla and it worked fine. The fact is you don't NEED a lot of gold in either classic or TBC. The only common thing that people want in TBC that costs more than nominal amounts of gold is epic flight and we all know - and have known for 13+ years - that it's there and costs 5k.

[Ilhom]

If the economy isn't reset or limited in some way then all PvE content will be tremendously trivialized. People will be clearing T5 with Naxx + crafted BiS gear within 2-3 weeks, especially if all of the T4/T5 nerfs from 2.1 -> 2.4.3 are in place. There are people creating hoards of profession alts that will be Tailoring cloth and Primal Might transmute slaves. There are people hoarding Azeroth gems to level JC on day 1. There are people hoarding Thorium to get BS weapons on day 1 of lvl70.

Resetting the economy isn't to fuck over the "hardcore" players. It's to preserve the health of the game. There are 2 viable options to not ruin the experience.

1) Start fresh. I believe Blizzard will likely create a few new servers for this type of experience since it will be cheap + easy for them to do. I hope that they lock down transfers and don't allow anyone to go to these new servers.
2) Transfer characters to TBC realms, but only allow gear and X amount of gold. There also needs to be a limit on the amount of characters so professions aren't abused. This one is likely what they are gonna do because they need to incentivize people to farm Naxx so they can keep the subscriptions active.

[[KJ]]

People are better at everything in vanilla so it would be a shame to take something away from those who have worked so hard to get it, it is a shame the community did not evolve in the same direction

[Mosha]

I have read it all, and still not one compelling realistic argument has been made in favor of any "gold-wipe".

Then your opinion honestly doesn’t matter. You can acknowledge something is a compelling or even a realistic argument for something while disagreeing with it. I think the argument that you shouldn’t wipe gold because “people worked for it” is a compelling argument even though I disagree.

If you are going to be so biased you don’t accept any other argument besides yours to be realistic then you clearly aren’t someone whose opinion really matters in an argument.

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They said 'reasonable'. They're right. Every argument I've read has been either "what about people who didnt play classic" or some vague 'I think it would be better for the game". The former is idiotic for reasons stated above and the latter is unsupported opinion.

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Sure it can. People (millions!) started in TBC not having played vanilla and it worked fine. The fact is you don't NEED a lot of gold in either classic or TBC. The only common thing that people want in TBC that costs more than nominal amounts of gold is epic flight and we all know - and have known for 13+ years - that it's there and costs 5k.

I have offered plenty of supports for your latter argument. So once again, you either didn’t read, or you are being disingenuous. Or maybe the phrase you are looking for is:

“I don’t agree with any of these arguments”. That’s entirely different than, “none of these are realistic.”

[Khain]

Gold never got wiped going from one expansion to the other, pointless discussion. I want to play Shadowlands but I want to wipe everyone's gold, achievements, mounts and mogs so I don't feel like I'm starting from behind mimimi chicken shit crybabies.

[Partipooper]

Fresh lvl 58s, a new release of TBC shouldent be linked to classic anymore then its linked to retail..

[Baneto]

Then your opinion honestly doesn’t matter.

Well neither opinion matter in that case, since its ultimately Blizzards decision to make.

[Mosha]

Gold never got wiped going from one expansion to the other, pointless discussion. I want to play Shadowlands but I want to wipe everyone's gold, achievements, mounts and mogs so I don't feel like I'm starting from behind mimimi chicken shit crybabies.

Who said the classic version of the games were suppose to be connected in the first place?

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Well neither opinion matter in that case, since its ultimately Blizzards decision to make.

I’m speaking about what matters in terms of who someone should listen to when listening to both sides of the argument. There’s plenty of people who hold your same views on this topic, but the difference is they should be listened to and you shouldn’t because you clearly can’t even provide proof that you’re able to see both sides of anything.

[Sagenod]

It would be best to retain authenticity as 99% of the classic community has been saying from the start. Part of retaining authenticity is in not implementing things such as this. To remove gold from players for the sake of "fairness" will not embolden the players who lack it, they will not likely change their playing habits because they aren't the type of player that puts the time and effort into farming gold in the first place. All it will do instead is anger those who are farming now in preparation for TBC. The people who had gold at the end of vanilla went into the expansion without a mandatory gold squish so why should it be any different this time around?

Edit: Actually know what let's take all the gold from every player, give 90% of it to the GM's then distribute the rest among the players evenly. Ban anyone who speaks out against it as well!

[Sevarin]

tbc should be its own standalone game, with no links to classic. this is including mounts/transmog, with a couple servers that allow for transfers from classic servers that come with a big, painfully clear label that note this fact.


but i dont/wont be playing either, so it doesnt really bother me either way.