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  1. #41
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Consent doesn't exist in a system where people are required to work to live, sweetheart. Sit down.
    It's honestly amazing how thoroughly some of these people have internalized duress as a totally normal and proper tool for suppressing wages and maximizing profits.

    I'd say it's a small step from there to outright torturing people for money, but as I was typing this, I realized that basically describes the health insurance industry in the USA.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Consent doesn't exist in a system where people are required to work to live, sweetheart. Sit down.
    Everyone has a choice even if the choices are not good ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Wait...

    I don't even know, how to even attempt to break down to you how you are literally contradicting yourself.

    If you can't see it, there's no way I can make you see it.

    Or wait...if you trying to argue that the company is only be liable for not using machinery that kills its workers and everything else from safely breathable air, the absence of chemicals and the absence of VIRAL vectors is not their responsibility?

    Is that the argument you are trying to make?

    Because that's an interesting rabbit hole you can go down on.
    It's a higher level of understanding but I can explain it to you. Something like machinery or simple infrastructure is entirely in the companies control. A viral outbreak barring extreme fringe cases isn't.

    Any questions? I made it rather digestible for you.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    It's a higher level of understanding
    Ha, yeah, you're definitely Connal. Only he thinks he's this "enlightened."

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Everyone has a choice even if the choices are not good ones.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's a higher level of understanding but I can explain it to you. Something like machinery or simple infrastructure is entirely in the companies control. A viral outbreak barring extreme fringe cases isn't.

    Any questions? I made it rather digestible for you.
    However, if a company purposely decides that it still has to operate, knowing that its workers could have a possible contagion that they can spread and kill them and required them to work while having said contagion under threat of penalty(firing or otherwise), that is within their control. And should be held accountable for said actions.

    If they took active measures to prevent the spread(like telling anyone that is emitting symptoms to stay home) then that it different.

    What McConnell wants it to prevent the first type from being sued which is wrong.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    What McConnell wants it to prevent the first type from being sued which is wrong.
    The company workers are all free to fuck off and make the tough choice they don't want to instead of demanding they be supported properly. If a company isn't willing to support you properly, you should leave. If you're worried you won't be able to find a job at a company that DOES have proper support.. well.. that says more about you as a worker than anything.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post

    It's a higher level of understanding but I can explain it to you. Something like machinery or simple infrastructure is entirely in the companies control. A viral outbreak barring extreme fringe cases isn't.

    Any questions? I made it rather digestible for you.
    Based on your post history you can't be trusted to write instructions/make a video demonstrating how to use a simple zipper on the average pair of pants or operate a pair of safety scissors without cutting yourself. Spare us the condescension and make sure to wear your helmet. Lots of sharp corners in this world.
    Last edited by shimerra; 2020-12-09 at 08:52 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    The company workers are all free to fuck off and make the tough choice they don't want to instead of demanding they be supported properly. If a company isn't willing to support you properly, you should leave. If you're worried you won't be able to find a job at a company that DOES have proper support.. well.. that says more about you as a worker than anything.
    If this actually worked then the US would be the greatest country on Earth for workers. In reality things just get shittier for the worker and those at the top just get richer.

    It's why you're better off in several dozen other countries as a regular worker than the US.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    If this actually worked then the US would be the greatest country on Earth for workers. In reality things just get shittier for the worker and those at the top just get richer.
    It does work... when the supply of people clamoring for such positions is properly balanced with the supply of such positions. We're simply going through a transitionary period where low-class work is being replaced by robots and the bar for "minimum capabilities needed to find a spot" are going up. In time it will stabilize.

    It's why you're better off in several dozen other countries as a regular worker than the US.
    I'm fine with this TBH. Regular workers are outdated and will soon be replaced with tech. We won't need this type of person soon (or at least in vastly less numbers than we currently have them).

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    The company workers are all free to fuck off and make the tough choice they don't want to instead of demanding they be supported properly. If a company isn't willing to support you properly, you should leave. If you're worried you won't be able to find a job at a company that DOES have proper support.. well.. that says more about you as a worker than anything.
    It honestly says more about the current work situation than anything else.

    If you think anyone who quits one job is going to quickly, easily, but most importantly definitely find another job somewhere else you're delusional.

  10. #50
    Well the end result could be the Expanse's version of Earth (prior to this season). Great for a relative few and absolute shit for everyone else.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    It honestly says more about the current work situation than anything else.

    If you think anyone who quits one job is going to quickly, easily, but most importantly definitely find another job somewhere else you're delusional.
    I don't think everyone will definitely be able to find a job for sure, nor easily find one. That's besides the point for me, though. If you're not valuable enough to get job stability and protection naturally without government mandates, I'm not sure you deserve it. Certain job categories do just fine without all of that intervention simply because the employees in those category hold a better balance of power due to proper supply and demand for said work.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    I don't think everyone will definitely be able to find a job for sure, nor easily find one. That's besides the point for me, though. If you're not valuable enough to get job stability and protection naturally without government mandates, I'm not sure you deserve it. Certain job categories do just fine without all of that intervention simply because the employees in those category hold a better balance of power due to proper supply and demand for said work.
    At this point, value for the individual is somewhat irrelevant, given the state of things and how jumbled the economy is.

    For some jobs, even highly valued ones there's literally only so many required in the field ever, so if someone were to quit one job, they wouldn't be able to find another one. Companies aren't usually going to simply create new positions for people that they aren't looking for.

    Would someone in a position like that be able to find ANOTHER job outside of their field? Probably, but typically at a massive pay cut. And the vast majority of people won't do that, unless they absolutely had no other options.

    You seem to be assuming that just because a person has value in ONE job position type that they are going to be much more easily going to be able to find new work somewhere. That's simply not true. The vast majority of the work force are not in such positions of power where they could lose or quit their job today and be guaranteed a similar level position somewhere else. The job market doesn't work like that except for super top level executives.

  13. #53
    With unemployment numbers in the shitter, finding a decent job isn't an option at this point in time.

  14. #54
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Everyone has a choice even if the choices are not good ones.
    Y'all bang on about how communism is supposedly irreconcilable with human nature and then pretend that any human being is willfully going to choose destitution over exploitation.

    Your beliefs aren't reflective of how humans behave in reality. Again; sit down. You've nothing valuable to contribute.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Y'all bang on about how communism is supposedly irreconcilable with human nature and then pretend that any human being is willfully going to choose destitution over exploitation.

    Your beliefs aren't reflective of how humans behave in reality. Again; sit down. You've nothing valuable to contribute.
    So tell me, if someone is able to do something, is that not reality? Just because something isn't reflective of how the average human behaves or what the average human is capable of doesn't mean it's not reality.

    Besides that, if choosing to be exploited over destitution is human nature, then so is exploiting people over actually caring about them. If both of these things are natural, why are we reeling against them? Because someone has moral objections to it? :lol:

    I'm more interested in seeing things get tipped back to the proper balancing point instead of figuring out ways to force the most capable to care and carry the most incapable.

  16. #56
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    So tell me, if someone is able to do something, is that not reality? Just because something isn't reflective of how the average human behaves or what the average human is capable of doesn't mean it's not reality.
    What you're describing is called an outlier, hun. Lol.

    Besides that, if choosing to be exploited over destitution is human nature, then so is exploiting people over actually caring about them. If both of these things are natural, why are we reeling against them? Because someone has moral objections to it? :lol:
    I don't know how to explain to you that you should give a shit about other people.

    I'm more interested in seeing things get tipped back to the proper balancing point instead of figuring out ways to force the most capable to care and carry the most incapable.
    We know it's you, Thomas Malthus.

    We also know that Malthusianism, like Social Darwinism, is pseudoscientific nonsense promoted by the already well off and their facile supporters among the lower classes. You know, the temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  17. #57
    How much longer before people get tired of being exploited?

  18. #58
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    How much longer before people get tired of being exploited?
    Getting pretty close judging from the way the cops are being chased away from enforcing evictions in places like Portland.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  19. #59
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    I'm fine with this TBH. Regular workers are outdated and will soon be replaced with tech. We won't need this type of person soon (or at least in vastly less numbers than we currently have them).
    What is the plan for what to do with "this type of person?".

  20. #60
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    What is the plan for what to do with "this type of person?".
    Judging from previous statements; what the English planned to do with the Irish population they deemed superfluous.

    People say they like the free market but then they forget Ireland exists.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

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