Something needs to be done about raid loot

[Strawberry]

I'm in a very casual guild that clears normal raid easily but struggles in hc. We're currently 5/10.

Killing only a few bosses means most people get no loot.
Meanwhile those people easily do m+9-11 and prefer to farm the dungeons, ending with 2-3 ilvl 220 choices from the Great Vault.
Even Great Vault hc raid choices are weak compared to that.
It just makes people put less effort into doing the raid.
But can you blame them?

We've outgeared normal and just clearing it with alts. Nobody wants to go there with their main.
Get good? Hardly needed, we don't care about WoW as much.
Bring back those damn tokens that let us do extra rolls!

[potis]

Get good? Hardly needed, we don't care about WoW as much.

Enough said, but Blizzard knows this, hence they allow you to get loot also cause you guys give 13e also.

Its amazing how most people really dont understand how smart Blizzard is with WoW, in an "ideal"MMO world you and your guild would be hard stuck in 190ilvl, but there is a reason this doesnt happen anymore as it did in the first 3 expansions until catch up gear was introduced in the form of 5mans with ToC and ICC.

Instead of unsubbing the first 2 months because you refuse to improve in this new system, instead of taking 10 months to reach where others reach in 2 weeks aka pre-catch up gear and unsub in the older system, there are systems to keep you occupied.

Repeat x a few million, cold hard $$.

[LordVargK]

So you don't want to get good and want to clear hc? Better wait for next patch.

[Tradu]

Raid could do with dropping slightly more loot(add a weekly raid quest similar to Legion for a random item from a difficulty based on your current progress), and the weekly chest needs to be based on highest boss killed that week rather than the lowest in each slot's "pool". Same for M+, really. Just base the loot on the highest key done that week and the number of slots based on the number of keys done. That's how it works in PvP and it's great. Especially because raid/M+ items can't be upgraded later, unlike PvP, it's completely absurd to have the weekly chests work like they do currently for raid/M+.

Regarding OP's problem:
People not wanting to do normal anymore is good. You've grown past that content and can spend that time on progressing on heroic instead.

[Biomega]

1 bonus roll a week, but 100% loot.

Please?

Pretty please?

[Makabreska]

Ion said they will most likely introduce some kind of badge system, so peeps wont have to grind PvP for superior loot choice.

[Magneto]

the reward system was based around more or less useful loot. they try to change it so everyone and their mother falls for the cosmetics trap, but obviously most dont. compare the amount of available cosmetics to useful loot and badabing badaboom. we dont want you to be more powerful, but at least you can look good sucking!

[Philomene]

1 bonus roll a week, but 100% loot.

Please?

Pretty please?

Next thread: "Please make the bonus roll both an item and stats upgrade. I'm sick of getting versa/mastery gloves when I need a haste/crit chest."

Current drop rate is okay, there's no need for extra RNG. A badge system would be neat to offset bad luck. Well, slowly but surely we'll get back to the reward systems that worked for more than half a decade. Maybe they'll learn that reinventing the wheel and making it square for the sake of changing isn't really a good idea.

[vsb]

I'm in a very casual guild that clears normal raid easily but struggles in hc. We're currently 5/10.

Killing only a few bosses means most people get no loot.
Meanwhile those people easily do m+9-11 and prefer to farm the dungeons, ending with 2-3 ilvl 220 choices from the Great Vault.
Even Great Vault hc raid choices are weak compared to that.
It just makes people put less effort into doing the raid.
But can you blame them?

We've outgeared normal and just clearing it with alts. Nobody wants to go there with their main.
Get good? Hardly needed, we don't care about WoW as much.
Bring back those damn tokens that let us do extra rolls!

I somewhat agree. I need to kill 4 raid mythic bosses to get 226 item in the vault. Or I need to complete +14 not in time to get the same 226 item in the vault. It is just not comparable in terms of difficulty. It should be like 4x +20 in time for a single +226 item.

[Nosnogard]

I'm in a very casual guild that clears normal raid easily but struggles in hc. We're currently 5/10.

Killing only a few bosses means most people get no loot.

I'm guessing Blizzard wants to bring back the days of Vanilla where each boss dropped 2-3 loot pieces. And I can certainly see the appeal. To me at least, gear doesn't seem as meaningful or special when a lot of it drops.

That said, I also understand why it's not a change that everyone enjoys. Especially those who don't have a lot of time to farm Mythic+ while also raiding 2-3 days a week

[ldev]

I somewhat agree. I need to kill 4 raid mythic bosses to get 226 item in the vault. Or I need to complete +14 not in time to get the same 226 item in the vault. It is just not comparable in terms of difficulty. It should be like 4x +20 in time for a single +226 item.

Yea, blizzard really dislikes raiding.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm guessing Blizzard wants to bring back the days of Vanilla where each boss dropped 2-3 loot pieces. And I can certainly see the appeal. To me at least, gear doesn't seem as meaningful or special when a lot of it drops.

I would be fine with that.

That would be great actually - you raid, you slowly gear up your char. You don't raid - you get lesser gear from dungeons/quests. Awesome.

Sadly now there's no difference between raiding and not raiding - everyone gets gear from mythic dungeon vault. You raid or you don't raid - same power level.

[ryjkur]

If you are stuck 5/10 HC it's not about loot. My guild cleared 10/10 HC first time with 197 ilvl average according to Wowprogress. You can get 197 ilvl gear with anima upgrades and it's enough to clear HC fully.

[Coldkil]

The main issue is that raid is locked to one boss kill/week meanwhile you can spamrun M+. Also, between normal/hc/mythic the ilvl increase is pretty high, while m+ have a more streamlined progression, plus the weekly cache nets you a nearly guaranteed upgrade when you're around 200-205 ilvl.

If you're 200ilvl you should be running +9/+10 which will give you a 220 in the cache. If you do raids only, best case scenario is getting a 213 on the weekly cache.

Loot drops have been reduced overall, both in raid and m+, making the cache even more important. And it's just easier to get higher ilvl rewards from m+ than raid. Doesn't matter how fast you go through content, m+ even with the changes has stayed the best way to gear up your character. I have looted a 216 and a 220 weapon which is ahead of anything HC i can do - without even clearing the raid (i'm at 8/10 but i'm not a progress player).

I'm obviously not counting mythic raid because it's not OP's case nor mine. If someone clears Mythic raid consistently then loot is not the issue nor it's really needed other than to make things faster.

[GnomeEU]

I somewhat agree. I need to kill 4 raid mythic bosses to get 226 item in the vault. Or I need to complete +14 not in time to get the same 226 item in the vault. It is just not comparable in terms of difficulty. It should be like 4x +20 in time for a single +226 item.

Dude lol. Those that clear +20 in time are already 226 ivl.
And of those that have that ilvl maybe 1% clear 20ies in time...

- - - Updated - - -

If you are stuck 5/10 HC it's not about loot. My guild cleared 10/10 HC first time with 197 ilvl average according to Wowprogress. You can get 197 ilvl gear with anima upgrades and it's enough to clear HC fully.

What's your guild?
Only top 100 guilds cleared hc with 197 ilvl and even those had higher lvl because they bought BOEs.

So yeah whatever you're trying to say.
The avg guild will not clear hc below 210 avg...

My hunter is ilvl 200. Feel free to invite me to your next denathrius HC kill. I won't even get invited to normal cn xD

[Tradu]

Dude lol. Those that clear +20 in time are already 226 ivl.
And of those that have that ilvl maybe 1% clear 20ies in time...

Yeah, the problem isn't the M+ weekly chest, although it should probably just look at your highest key for the week rather than lowest in your top 4/10. Because who actually cares if a few people run 1 high key and then fill with +2s? That way it matches how PvP works as well, where it looks at your highest rating.
The actual problem for raiding is that the amount of loot dropped is probably a touch too low(a currency to buy an item every other week could help this a lot) and that the weekly chest is absolute garbage. Requiring 3/7/10 bosses for the slots is already stupid, because it means that once you have mythic on farm, you still won't get the full 3 slots unless you're a tank, healer, provide a buff or one of the few DPS that don't ever get benched. It should be 1/3/6 at most with the current ilevel rules, or stay at 3/7/10 but all slots give rewards based on the difficulty of your top 3 kills(instead of your top 3, then your top 7 and then your top 10).

[GnomeEU]

Yeah, the problem isn't the M+ weekly chest, although it should probably just look at your highest key for the week rather than lowest in your top 4/10. Because who actually cares if a few people run 1 high key and then fill with +2s? That way it matches how PvP works as well, where it looks at your highest rating.
The actual problem for raiding is that the amount of loot dropped is probably a touch too low(a currency to buy an item every other week could help this a lot) and that the weekly chest is absolute garbage. Requiring 3/7/10 bosses for the slots is already stupid, because it means that once you have mythic on farm, you still won't get the full 3 slots unless you're a tank, healer, provide a buff or one of the few DPS that don't ever get benched. It should be 1/3/6 at most with the current ilevel rules, or stay at 3/7/10 but all slots give rewards based on the difficulty of your top 3 kills(instead of your top 3, then your top 7 and then your top 10).

It's a cool idea to just fill it with +2.
Then low keys would get pushed a bit...
But yeah our community would probably poison that idea.
Suddenly you need 210 ilvl if you want to join a +2...

[Tradu]

It's a cool idea to just fill it with +2.
Then low keys would get pushed a bit...
But yeah our community would probably poison that idea.
Suddenly you need 210 ilvl if you want to join a +2...

I don't see a problem with that, honestly. If people want to giga blast 9 +2s for their weekly chest, let them make a group specifically for that with 230 ilevel requirement. Doing higher keys would still be better generally, because they don't take that much longer and drop more useful gear(and are more fun because you actually get to play for more than 3 seconds per pack)

[Malania]

I'm in a very casual guild that clears normal raid easily but struggles in hc. We're currently 5/10.

Killing only a few bosses means most people get no loot.
Meanwhile those people easily do m+9-11 and prefer to farm the dungeons, ending with 2-3 ilvl 220 choices from the Great Vault.
Even Great Vault hc raid choices are weak compared to that.
It just makes people put less effort into doing the raid.
But can you blame them?

We've outgeared normal and just clearing it with alts. Nobody wants to go there with their main.
Get good? Hardly needed, we don't care about WoW as much.
Bring back those damn tokens that let us do extra rolls!

Most people? 3 people are getting loot every kill. And getting good is needed if you can't kill heroic. It's pre-mythic normal mode. Changing the title of it doesn't make it any less troll that people can't kill normal modes and are whining.

[slime]

I think it is at a perfect sweet spot where it is now. It's really pissing off people that raid and imo that's prefect.

[ryjkur]

Dude lol. Those that clear +20 in time are already 226 ivl.
And of those that have that ilvl maybe 1% clear 20ies in time...

- - - Updated - - -



What's your guild?
Only top 100 guilds cleared hc with 197 ilvl and even those had higher lvl because they bought BOEs.

So yeah whatever you're trying to say.
The avg guild will not clear hc below 210 avg...

My hunter is ilvl 200. Feel free to invite me to your next denathrius HC kill. I won't even get invited to normal cn xD

My guild is only top 500

If you look at Echo's first kill they had even lower: 187 ilvl on average.