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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by dzd View Post
    I'm glad someone is finally saying it. I agree 100% that they should remove gear rewards from mythic raids.
    You are joking but i'd be on board with that.
    No gear from top end activities would keep the game skill based and more balanced. It would also prevent the absurd power scaling during an expansion. Rewards would still exist, but be cosmetic.

    It is definitly something worth pondering.

  2. #222
    Epic! Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    You are joking but i'd be on board with that.
    No gear from top end activities would keep the game skill based and more balanced. It would also prevent the absurd power scaling during an expansion. Rewards would still exist, but be cosmetic.

    It is definitly something worth pondering.
    It's worth a thought but then you'd never have progression in any form of player power if the gear never gets better. The next tier would have to do the same damage as the previous tier or you couldn't keep up.

    You also need to keep in mind that not all guilds are top tier and some do rely on the drops to give them the ability to clear mythic.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Except PvP is the niche portion of this game. Not PvE. It's a vastly bigger inconvenience to PvE'ers. Thankfully after 2-3 weeks we'll never have to touch the shithole that is pvP again
    What about in the next content tier?

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    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    I wish you people would stop trotting this out. The name has nothing to do with PvP and is a stretch by you to reinforce a shit aspect of the game only an extreme minority participate in. Also Warcraft hasn't been about a faction war in forever, even BFA which was supposed to bring it back merely joked around the topic.

    So let it die please.
    What % of the population do you consider to be an extreme minority?

    Are you under the impression there are fewer people interested in PvP than there are in mythic raiding?

    Just doing some napkin math here, according to wowprogres there are (as of this writing) 3516 guilds that have killed at least 10/10 heroic (so this would include all guilds currently attempting to get their first mythic kill+all guilds who have killed at least 1 mythic boss). If you assume 30 raiders per guild, that's 105,000ish players who are doing Mythic raiding.

    The game has like, what, 6 million, 8 million players? I don't know the exact number of course, but it's laughable to think there are less people interested in and doing PvP. You claim "an extreme minority", do you live under the delusion that there's like 10,000 people who want PvP and 5+million who have no interest in it?

    If there's 8 million players and 105,000 of them are doing Mythic raiding that's 1.3% of the playerbase. That's an extreme minority. I'd wager at least 5% of the population is interested in PvP.

    Do you have any evidence to refute any of this or to back up your claims?
    Last edited by Monoxide; 2021-01-05 at 12:56 PM.
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    A thread about how hard it is being a white dude is not really a reasonable topic.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    You are joking but i'd be on board with that.
    No gear from top end activities would keep the game skill based and more balanced. It would also prevent the absurd power scaling during an expansion. Rewards would still exist, but be cosmetic.

    It is definitly something worth pondering.
    Players doing the hardest content in the game should be rewarded with the best gear. One of the remaining rpg aspects of the game.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    It's worth a thought but then you'd never have progression in any form of player power if the gear never gets better. The next tier would have to do the same damage as the previous tier or you couldn't keep up.

    You also need to keep in mind that not all guilds are top tier and some do rely on the drops to give them the ability to clear mythic.
    Huh? Not getting your train of thought there. It's obvious the content would be balanced around it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Players doing the hardest content in the game should be rewarded with the best gear. One of the remaining rpg aspects of the game.
    I mean... it's not like it's a written rule. There are more rewards than ilvl.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Huh? Not getting your train of thought there. It's obvious the content would be balanced around it.

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    I mean... it's not like it's a written rule. There are more rewards than ilvl.
    There are, but since ilvl is basicly the biggest reward you can get, the hardest content should award it. makes sense

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    There are, but since ilvl is basicly the biggest reward you can get, the hardest content should award it. makes sense
    For you iLvL might be the biggest reward you can get for others it's just a tool to get what they see as the biggest reward.

  8. #228
    Only read thread title.
    Have been forced to pve to pvp for a long time.
    I HOPE you feel like you have to pvp to pve because it would be hilarious to play "opposite day" for a little while.

  9. #229
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    There are, but since ilvl is basicly the biggest reward you can get, the hardest content should award it. makes sense
    It makes actually very little sense for a number of reasons.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    It makes actually very little sense for a number of reasons.
    "a number of reasons"

    mmh.

    Right

    Yeah you win mate. I just cant argue against that solid logic

  11. #231
    Resilience will fix it.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Yes, I wish blizzard would stop forcing players into undesirable situations.

    I already pay a subscription, give me freedom. I'm entitled to at least that much.
    The only thing you are entitled to with a subscription is access to the servers and play the game. Nothing more.

  13. #233
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    @OP let us rephrase this.

    Blizzard forces me to PVE to be viable in PVP. I need legendary via PVE only, weapons and gear which can be ran much more easier in HC CN and Mythic+ dungeons.
    Whats up, what was you saying again? Oye, nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awfulx View Post
    Only read thread title.
    Have been forced to pve to pvp for a long time.
    Since Classic, what's that, 15-16 years? Time flies...
    -K

  14. #234
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    I find it funny that out of 13 mythic boss kills so far, I have whole 1 mythic item to show for it and even that item is just some shitty ass cloak.

    That's several weeks of of work there for nothing.

    But hey, I'm getting 1.8k RBG tomorrow with our PvEvP team - finally some decent loot coming yup.

  15. #235
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    This reminds me a lot of early BC, where people queued for arenas and didn't care about winning or losing, because there was sweet welfare loot incoming. I still remember how the S1 shield carried me all the way up to BT as a prot pally, none the less. Loot from raids is for tryhards
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by ztn View Post
    when in game about equiping your character there is 2 ways:
    1. 216ivl every 5mins = 12x216ivl/hour
    2. 210ivl every 40min per 5ppl = 0.3x210ilvl/hour
    it's called exactly FORCED
    I am confused. I do not see how that is forced. What am I missing?

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I find it funny that out of 13 mythic boss kills so far, I have whole 1 mythic item to show for it and even that item is just some shitty ass cloak.

    That's several weeks of of work there for nothing.

    But hey, I'm getting 1.8k RBG tomorrow with our PvEvP team - finally some decent loot coming yup.
    PvEvP might be my new favorite word after reading your post xD! I just reached 1800 yday myself in a similar rbg team with mostly pve:ers, felt good and even 2100 doesnt look impossible, just timeconsuming. And unlike arenas rbg is pretty fun too

    Also, ontopic, what are these spammable 216 ilvl loots the op are talking about? What have i missed?
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Yes obviously there is a difference between the top 10 guilds in the world and the rest in terms of that. But the only one talking about those guilds are you.
    For the rest of us, gearing up asap is still a valid concern as it helps us progress faster.

    You are making a logical fallacy and being rude about it
    You are choosing to play a game a certain way and complaining about the known and foreseen drawbacks of that way. If you can't sustain what that playstyle requires anymore, maybe you should reassess your expectations.

    It's always going to be some degenerate grinding if you want to be a tryhard. The game is intentionally designed that way. That's the price you pay.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Yes, I wish blizzard would stop forcing players into undesirable situations.

    I already pay a subscription, give me freedom. I'm entitled to at least that much.
    Just in case this isn't a troll post, the only thing you're entitled to for paying your sub is access to the servers as is. The end.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Awfulx View Post
    Only read thread title.
    Have been forced to pve to pvp for a long time.
    I HOPE you feel like you have to pvp to pve because it would be hilarious to play "opposite day" for a little while.
    That's a bad mentality to have, as it just makes it a PvP vs PvE issue, when the ideal goal would be to get both areas of the game to a similar level in terms of gear acquisition.

    In BfA, getting gear via PvP was bad... real bad. The new SL gearing method is insanely superior to BfA, and that's great! On the flipside, gearing via raids was moderately fine in BfA, and it was completely broken in M+ to where M+ was the primary way to gear up regardless of what content you did. In SL, gearing up via M+ and raid is painful with the combination of lower ilvl rewards from end-of-run M+ chests and drastically lower loot droprates in M+ and raids. The Vault is supposed to be the great equalizer, but it's turned into the main upgrade source for M+ and probably for most raiders, while for PvP it's more of a bonus (especially if you get a weapon) since their baseline system is very good and satisfying.

    The main problem is that PvP gearing in SL is very deterministic, and the quality of your gear is a direct result of your efforts that you put in... while M+ and raiding is luck. I'm not saying change the PvP gearing system, as I'm happy for PvPers to finally get a decent gearing system back. I am saying that the current PvE model is pretty awful on its own if you don't get lucky. Basically, Blizz has made the same mistake as they did with BfA: made one aspect of end-game so rewarding that it dwarfs all other aspects, and it makes players feel like they're playing the game wrong if their end-game content wasn't the winning one in terms of gear acquisition.

    What should be done? If we don't touch the PvP gearing system (and I wouldn't want to for the sake of PvPers), Blizz needs to add a more deterministic way to acquire and/or upgrade your PvE gear. I think Blizz is very hesitant about bringing back old ways of doing this, probably because they only remember the abominations that such systems turned into when they kept iterating on systems in ways they were never intended to work (such as the badge system). They could potentially just clone the PvP system to some degree, where you can upgrade your M+/raid loot via currency gained via completing keys or killing bosses... wouldn't fix the issues of items not dropping at all, but it would alleviate issues like being stuck with a low ilvl item/weapon for weeks because you cannot get lucky.

    Ironically enough, I thought Blizz might do a currency upgrade system with the weekly Vault when they touted it offering useful currency if there wasn't any loot you wanted. Instead we got stygia... and not much at that. It's quite a wasted opportunity, and I believe it's a result of launching the expansion well before it should have been. So much stuff went untested or was broken most of the beta, and it's on the level of not testing Azerite gear in BfA when it came to acquisition of pieces and unlocking powers.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

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