1. #2761
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    Gul'dan was literally just evil incarnate. The only story was that "he was bullied and felt powerless, and he wanted power so he could be the top dog". The only reason you like him more is because A. He caused the Horde essentially with Mannoroth. And B. He had 2 Expansions of build up with his AU self.

    The Jailer is really no different than Gul'dan or Palpatine, in that he's evil for the sake of power. Every other guys is a force of nature with a belief system. Sargeras is probably the only other Cosmic guy that's "evil", and he's portrayed as a big dumb idiot now.

    Cersei is a complex character who is evil for different reasons. She is no more comparable to guys like Palpatine and Gul'dan than Sylvanas, or Devos is to the Jailer.

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    Also, Cersei isn't really too complex. I'd argue Varian's dynamic with Anduin's far more complex.
    You still don't get it.

    You can be evil and funny at the same time.

    Gul'dan is funny. Palpatine is funny. The Janitor is not funny, he's just cringe. If anything the only funny thing about the Janitor are his nipple memes. Some legacy for a main villain.

    Also, LOL at claiming that Anduin is more complex than Cersei, you're certainly funnier than the Janitor.


    Kinda doesn't help you say this, yet you fanboy over the Void
    I don't.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  2. #2762
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    You still don't get it.

    You can be evil and funny at the same time.

    Gul'dan is funny. Palpatine is funny. The Janitor is not funny, he's just cringe. If anything the only funny thing about the Janitor are his nipple memes. Some legacy for a main villain.

    Also, LOL at claiming that Anduin is more complex than Cersei, you're certainly funnier than the Janitor.
    How is Gul'dan and Palpatine funny? They're sadistic as fuck. Hell, Palpatine is legit Star Wars' Satan.

  3. #2763
    One thing is for certain, the next expansion will have a better villain than the Janitor.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  4. #2764
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    One thing is for certain, the next expansion will have a better villain than the Janitor.
    We don't even know who the main Villain is next...

    For all we know, it's some random off Life god if Blizzard does this whole "1 expac for every Cosmic Realm" shit, which imo is not going to happen.

  5. #2765
    Bloodsail Admiral Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    I don't think the Jailer is as bad as everyone memes about. The only issue I have with him is there is little to no build up, and they appear to be killing him off this expansion. If Blizzard was competent, they would have introduced the Jailer in something like the Chronicles, and build up his threat and influence over the course of several years.

  6. #2766
    If I have to read gardens of life, pantheon of life or any other incarnation "of life" one more time, I'm gonna puke. Man, that agenda really is unnerving.

  7. #2767
    Quote Originally Posted by ExiHext View Post
    If I have to read gardens of life, pantheon of life or any other incarnation "of life" one more time, I'm gonna puke. Man, that agenda really is unnerving.
    What "agenda" is there?

  8. #2768

  9. #2769
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    How is Gul'dan and Palpatine funny? They're sadistic as fuck. Hell, Palpatine is legit Star Wars' Satan.
    How is Palpatine funny? Every second line out of his mouth is a meme. He might be an irredeemable asshat, but he has character. And buildup. Even if you ignore the sequel trilogy, he was present in four movies before he was killed in RotJ.

    We didn't even get a suggestion of the Janitor's existence till BfA. He has no buildup or personality. He was just pulled out of the shadows with claims to be the force behind every enemy ever and his stereotypical bland evilness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I don't think the Jailer is as bad as everyone memes about. The only issue I have with him is there is little to no build up, and they appear to be killing him off this expansion. If Blizzard was competent, they would have introduced the Jailer in something like the Chronicles, and build up his threat and influence over the course of several years.
    No bruh if they were competent they would have introduced him right in the fucking game not a book that you have to buy to make sense of ingame lore.

    Like here's an idea: Make the Twilight Hammer worship some unknown death god instead of the Old Gods. And slowly but surely over the course of every expansion they are in, feed us info about the Jailer. People would be eager to fight him now, not just scratching their heads about who this bozo is and why we should care about him.

  10. #2770
    It's pretty obvious that the Jailer's entire purpose is to serve as plot device for Sylvanas' redemption story. Without the Jailer they wouldn't know how to redeem Sylvanas. Now they know how. Just blame everything on the big blue janitor who has been mind-controlling Sylvanas/splitting Sylvanas' soul for years.

    It's pretty obvious that Jailer was created solely to give Sylvanas a redemption story.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  11. #2771
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    There are ways to have morally bankrupt villains have depth.
    He doesn't necessarily have to have psychological depth.
    He just needs to be compelling.

    People love Sauron and he was simply evil incarnate.
    Most of us here enjoy Gul'dans character and he his whole stick was being power hungry.

    As of right now, Zovaal is just a big bald man that appeared out of thin air without ever being even hinted at ever existing before, with no semblance of a personality whatsoever.

    He isn't the great schemer that Blizz is telling us that he is.
    He isn't this calculated and cunning evil.
    He isn't this dread inducing darkness who's shadow is looming over us.

    He's just a big bald man, with the most generic lines and voice they could've possibly given him, that appears on screen from time to time to remind us how ah-so-evil-and-powerful he is.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2021-05-25 at 08:03 PM.

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  12. #2772
    Loa of Death Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    How is Gul'dan and Palpatine funny? They're sadistic as fuck. Hell, Palpatine is legit Star Wars' Satan.
    Yeah I just....I don't get it? At least Bwonsamdi is actually a funny 'Villian'. And the Jailor is just... awful

    Another day, another Deal....

  13. #2773
    Palpatine was interesting because while he was tied to Darth Vader, he was also a physically frail old man, which was immediately intriguing for someone so evil to look so frail and still command such respect. He also showed a personality of delighting in being evil, when he tells Luke of what he thinks is his friends death you can hear his smug satisfaction of being the unquestioned tyrant of the universe.
    However most importantly, when he was introduced and until,, he was killed there was only a single movie. 2 hours is a reasonable amount of time to spend on such shallow character. And when the prequels came around and he was needed for more screentime they expanded on his character to be more interesting to watch.

    Compare this to the Jailer whose main characteristics beyond the baseline level of villain angger at our antics is a brief moment where he is shocked we are able to escape.
    They could have made him childish, or arrogant. They could have had him hound the player relentlessly or showed him as aloof in not giving us the time of day. What they did do however was nothing. The Jailer just stands around being a villain with none of the buildup necessary for him to be taken as seriously as the story needs us to.

    And yes, this is only the initial patch and there is likely time to develop him further, but why waste valuable time at this point. As I have mentioned in previously: We don't even know what his plan actually is, or what it means for us. We don't know what it means if he escapes, or how he was bound there to begin with. We don't know if his minions are subjugated souls, automatons or if they are all evil souls sent to the Maw normally that are following him freely.
    We don't know the first thing about the Jailer except that he is supposedly THE villain behind Arthas and Sylvanas and what have you, and that is boring.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #2774
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    "just an unknown" is a perfect way to describe the blandness of the Janitors character.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2021-05-25 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Miserable attempt at wordplay

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  15. #2775
    I agree with the Jailer criticisms. He is so boring, I have no clue who he is or where he came from, and we don't know what he wants. Frankly at this point I don't care. I do remember a line from one of his agents in the prequel, about how he is coming for the soul of our world, so I am sure the plot is leading to an invasion of Azeroth (or like 3 zones because small Indie company) and something something Azeroth is super special I want her power something something.

  16. #2776
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I agree with the Jailer criticisms. He is so boring, I have no clue who he is or where he came from, and we don't know what he wants. Frankly at this point I don't care. I do remember a line from one of his agents in the prequel, about how he is coming for the soul of our world, so I am sure the plot is leading to an invasion of Azeroth (or like 3 zones because small Indie company) and something something Azeroth is super special I want her power something something.
    He flat out states he comes for the soul of our world, pretty fucking obvious he wants the world soul for himself and use its massive power for Death. Its a pretty easy thing to understand. Thats been his motivation since the start, its clear. He also hates that his own kin(Eternals) imprisoned him. You may not be paying attention.
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  17. #2777
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    "just an unknown" is a perfect way to describe the blandness of the Janitors character.
    Almost like every villain was unknown until they weren’t.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    He flat out states he comes for the soul of our world, pretty fucking obvious he wants the world soul for himself and use its massive power for Death. Its a pretty easy thing to understand. Thats been his motivation since the start, its clear. He also hates that his own kin(Eternals) imprisoned him. You may not be paying attention.
    His goal is to conquer all existence. His sole purpose isn’t the world soul alone, tf?

  18. #2778
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Also, LOL at claiming that Anduin is more complex than Cersei, you're certainly funnier than the Janitor.



    I don't.
    Ahahahaha ok man. Constant glorifying of Void Elves and waifu Alleria never happened.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-05-25 at 06:39 PM.
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  19. #2779
    Bloodsail Admiral Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    No bruh if they were competent they would have introduced him right in the fucking game not a book that you have to buy to make sense of ingame lore.
    I mean, I guess that would have been ideal, but realistically, the chronicle books had no reason to not include him. The only reason why he wasn't in it is because he was asspulled during BFA. Considering every book is going to be "from X's POV" from now on, the new Shadowlands books coming out are just retcons waiting to happen.

  20. #2780
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ahahahaha ok man. Constant glorifying of Void Elves and waifu Alleria never happened.
    You do realize that the Void Lords are their enemies, right?

    Also you can't glorify that which is already glorious by itself.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

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