1. #3161
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Never underestimate amount of stupidity in this community.
    I personally believe that 9.1 is just a shared delusion resulting from some sort of mass hysteria

  2. #3162
    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoBisque View Post
    I personally believe that 9.1 is just a shared delusion resulting from some sort of mass hysteria
    Madness I can accept.

  3. #3163
    Two days till end of season announcements

  4. #3164
    I heard that they cut a lot of content from Korthia from initial pre-PTR concepting to now. He said if you look at the early parts of the Korthia mapa, it had a lot more structures and things seemingly put in and was stripped bare and now is just a barebones daily quest hub.

  5. #3165
    Mechagnome Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I heard that they cut a lot of content from Korthia from initial pre-PTR concepting to now. He said if you look at the early parts of the Korthia mapa, it had a lot more structures and things seemingly put in and was stripped bare and now is just a barebones daily quest hub.
    What? The current ingame map didn't really change at all from the first build?

    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...ap-of-korthia/

    And Blizzconline never gave us a map to begin with, so I would like to see a source for "cut Korthia content".

  6. #3166
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I heard that they cut a lot of content from Korthia from initial pre-PTR concepting to now. He said if you look at the early parts of the Korthia mapa, it had a lot more structures and things seemingly put in and was stripped bare and now is just a barebones daily quest hub.
    Don't put to much thought into that. Stuff being cut is a daily occurence in creative design. It was likely just way more ambitious than what was realistically possible to pull off.

  7. #3167
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    So yes I think it really is preferrable to not have a 9.3
    It is and everybody in this thread knows it, but it seems like they don't want to acknowledge that not having 9.3 and getting 10.0 out in time is better (and just more important) because they would have to agree with persons like me on that, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The expansion ending at 9.3 has too many realistic points in its favour, specifically Covid. The expansion ending at 9.2 is a realistic option if Blizzard is really struggling, so clearly it isn't pessimistic enough for the doomsayers.
    At this point there is no realistic scenario where getting 9.3 makes more sense than not getting it, honestly. And this has zero to do with doomsaying and isn't pessimistic at all. The schedule lines up perfectly for not having 9.3 and getting 10.0 in Q4/22. 9.1 wraps up most of the Shadowlands storyline and works perfectly as an interlude to the grand finale in 9.2. 9.3 just isn't necessary.

    I'm very optimistic that we're getting the next expansion in time, aka end of 2022.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Why would they have planned to only make it 2 patches though? After WoD they would have needed a damn good reason, and better yet be upfront about the reason behind doing so. The bad press from another WoD would hardly be silenced by announcing an above average expansion after.

    At best Blizzard could have designed the expansion so a patch could be excised in case of an emergency, which would be good practice, but also something that would require being upfront about.
    Exactly this is the question.

    Shadowlands was announced in November 2019. COVID became a pandemic four months later. With that in mind back in March / April 2020 they could have changed the direction for Shadowlands and just have planned it to only have two major patches (9.1 and 9.2) because they knew that their development process could become problematic and that their schedule might get messed up (which eventually happened). I think it would have been very clever to have this "no 9.3 scenario" on the table from the start and I bet Blizzard was well aware of this.

    Fact is: we don't even know if 9.3 was ever planned.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    9.2 being the last patch doesn't mean Blizzard is struggling. Just means that's where the Expansion's plot stops. Simple.
    Blizzard is clearly struggling due to various reasons: COVID, horrible management, brain drain, players leaving in droves, microtransactions becoming a major part of their income... Blizzard as a company is on a steep downward trend (not from a financial standpoint though), but that's really not the topic here.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2021-06-07 at 02:05 PM.
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  8. #3168
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Don't put to much thought into that. Stuff being cut is a daily occurence in creative design. It was likely just way more ambitious than what was realistically possible to pull off.
    I'm sure it was "realistically possible." Whether they had the resources made available is the question. And it seems that they have fewer and fewer resources available as time goes on. Less time, less money, fewer people, and sorry to say, but straight up less talent and experience. This is why we keep getting cookie cutter design - it is infinitely more difficult to build fresh content without an existing structure to follow than it is to colour by numbers. Thus, we colour by numbers. It isn't that the more recent expansions are any worse than those preceding them - it's that we've already done this content. They're just using different colours for the same picture.

  9. #3169
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Exactly this is the question.

    Shadowlands was announced in November 2019. COVID became a pandemic four months later. With that in mind back in March / April 2020 they could have changed the direction for Shadowlands and just have planned it to only have two major patches (9.1 and 9.2) because they knew that their development process could become problematic and that their schedule might get messed up (which eventually happened). I think it would have been very clever to have this "no 9.3 scenario" on the table from the start and I bet Blizzard was well aware of this.

    Fact is: we don't even know if 9.3 was ever planned.
    Well for one, when Covid first came around it was thought to be serious, but no so muc os that it couldnt be gone in a couple weeks to a month. Even a conservative estimate back then would have said the pandemic would have been effectively over before summer. When hte pandemic was shown to be more serious than initially thought Blizzard would have lost time to reshuffling employees to WFH, which for a company like Blizzard with so much custom hardware and software must have been particularly difficult. Then they would have had to figure out whether WFH impeded them in a massive way.

    There wasnt any one specific final act of god that might have forced Blizzard to decide 9.3 wasnt happening. If there was it would have been the California Forest Fire crisis.

    Beyond that though, the idea that Blizzard would actually completely excise a patch is still unlikely. There are a myriad things thye could remove from a 9.3 patch to make developing it faster. They could cut down on unique assets, they could scale back or remove completely a new zone, they could make the entire patch just QoL changes and a raid.
    There is no conclusive event drastic or sudden enough that Blizzard should have felt the need to completely excise an entire patch, and even if they did I imagine they would be upfront about it, simply because delaying the fallout would just make the issue worse. (Though I guess this point might be countered with the Quarterly income mentality that plagues companies.)


    Covid was not a singular drastic event like it looks in hidssight. It was countless small issues that made what was initialy imagined to be a particularly deadly flu season into a society altering event htat lasted over a year.

    I am sure that looking back Blizzard would have cut SL short if they could, but that is just with the benefit of hindsight and knowledge of events that the Blizzard of early 2020 couldnt possibly foresee.
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  10. #3170
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    It is and everybody in this thread knows it, but it seems like they don't want to acknowledge that not having 9.3 and getting 10.0 out in time is better (and just more important) because they would have to agree with persons like me on that, lol.
    That would be a hard pill to swallow, wouldn't it XD

    I mean it is only common sense. The sooner they can devote their full attention to 10.0, the sooner it will be ready. And then they can finally get that sweet sweet revenue boost they like so much.

  11. #3171
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    That would be a hard pill to swallow, wouldn't it XD

    I mean it is only common sense. The sooner they can devote their full attention to 10.0, the sooner it will be ready. And then they can finally get that sweet sweet revenue boost they like so much.
    I mean, I vaguely recall Ion saying that he'd love to have an annual expansion cycle, but certain realities of development get in the way. Maybe if they'd start structuring their content in a way that doesn't make all but the most current content irrelevant, they could be a bit more timely with their releases. It seems that they spend most of their expansion budget reinventing a wheel in square form followed by the patch cycle slowly sanding down the points, and repeat.

  12. #3172
    Mechagnome Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Well for one, when Covid first came around it was thought to be serious, but no so muc os that it couldnt be gone in a couple weeks to a month. Even a conservative estimate back then would have said the pandemic would have been effectively over before summer. When hte pandemic was shown to be more serious than initially thought Blizzard would have lost time to reshuffling employees to WFH, which for a company like Blizzard with so much custom hardware and software must have been particularly difficult. Then they would have had to figure out whether WFH impeded them in a massive way.

    There wasnt any one specific final act of god that might have forced Blizzard to decide 9.3 wasnt happening. If there was it would have been the California Forest Fire crisis.

    Beyond that though, the idea that Blizzard would actually completely excise a patch is still unlikely. There are a myriad things thye could remove from a 9.3 patch to make developing it faster. They could cut down on unique assets, they could scale back or remove completely a new zone, they could make the entire patch just QoL changes and a raid.
    There is no conclusive event drastic or sudden enough that Blizzard should have felt the need to completely excise an entire patch, and even if they did I imagine they would be upfront about it, simply because delaying the fallout would just make the issue worse. (Though I guess this point might be countered with the Quarterly income mentality that plagues companies.)


    Covid was not a singular drastic event like it looks in hidssight. It was countless small issues that made what was initialy imagined to be a particularly deadly flu season into a society altering event htat lasted over a year.

    I am sure that looking back Blizzard would have cut SL short if they could, but that is just with the benefit of hindsight and knowledge of events that the Blizzard of early 2020 couldnt possibly foresee.
    Honestly I would rather cut one patch than have to relive the "Dragonsoul patch-Style but minus the dungeons with new environment" again (because lets be honest the first 2 Dungeons were great but the last one and the Raid just felt cheap art and modelwise). End-of-Expansion-drought is bad enough with a good last patch - only making it barebones will not help with that. Of course they could make 9.2 the "small patch" but iirc they already told us that 9.2 will actually be bigger than 9.1?
    Last edited by Lady Atia; 2021-06-07 at 03:19 PM.

  13. #3173
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Honestly I would rather cut one patch than have to relive the "Dragonsoul patch-Style but minus the dungeons with new environment" again (because lets be honest the first 2 Dungeons were great but the last one and the Raid just felt cheap art and modelwise). End-of-Expansion-drought is bad enough with a good last patch - only making it barebones will not help with that. Of course they could make 9.2 the "small patch" but iirc they already told us that 9.2 will actually be bigger than 9.1?
    That's the thing though. They might have already spent a significant amount of time on a patch already. AAnd unless that patch can be reused then there is nothing to be gained from scrapping it, only lost time.

    If they have nothing done for the potential patch being scrapped except stuff that can eb easily transplanted like gear models and mounts and such then they are better off just completing whatever they already have and ignore much of the rest. Yes it will be a shitty patch, but it will be something and they don't necessarily lose any time.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #3174
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Beyond that though, the idea that Blizzard would actually completely excise a patch is still unlikely. There are a myriad things thye could remove from a 9.3 patch to make developing it faster. They could cut down on unique assets, they could scale back or remove completely a new zone, they could make the entire patch just QoL changes and a raid.

    There is no conclusive event drastic or sudden enough that Blizzard should have felt the need to completely excise an entire patch, and even if they did I imagine they would be upfront about it, simply because delaying the fallout would just make the issue worse. (Though I guess this point might be countered with the Quarterly income mentality that plagues companies.)
    Why unlikely? They did it once (and no, not because they were planning annual expansions) where there was basically no reason to. To do it now would be the most plausible thing and not even problematic.

    I'm pretty sure that good project management would have pre-planned a situation with delays and messed up schedules and at least back in May 2020 it was very obvious that the pandemic wasn't going away anytime soon. And back then they could have easily changed the direction of the patch cadence for Shadowlands. At the latest when it became obvious that they could not make the initial release date and everything would get delayed subsequently they should have made backup plans for the rollout of the expansion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Honestly I would rather cut one patch than have to relive the "Dragonsoul patch-Style but minus the dungeons with new environment" again (because lets be honest the first 2 Dungeons were great but the last one and the Raid just felt cheap art and modelwise). End-of-Expansion-drought is bad enough with a good last patch - only making it barebones will not help with that. Of course they could make 9.2 the "small patch" but iirc they already told us that 9.2 will actually be bigger than 9.1?
    Afaik they didn't tell us that 9.2 will be bigger than 9.1, Ion just said it will be "pretty epic" story-wise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    That's the thing though. They might have already spent a significant amount of time on a patch already. AAnd unless that patch can be reused then there is nothing to be gained from scrapping it, only lost time.
    Why would they have been already working on 9.3 when 9.1 hasn't been out yet and is delayed. 9.2? Granted. But 9.3? They most likely wouldn't have touched it yet besides maybe some concepts on where to go and what to do, with or without the pandemic. I really don't think they have four teams working on 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 and 10.0 simultaneously.
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  15. #3175
    Bloodsail Admiral Pheraz's Avatar
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    In Bfa we were pretty sure what would come since so many plots were opened. Sylvanas and Nathanos, Talanji and Bwonsamdi, Darkshore after teldrassil, kul tiran fat lady intriguing, Azshara and Nzoth from warbringer,... Holy hell there was sooo much going on there.
    And now? Sylvanas, anduin, tyrande and baldie, all in one patch. What should happen in 9.3 ? I can hardly imagine some 9.2 with the jailor Vs elune or something
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  16. #3176
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Why unlikely? They did it once (and no, not because they were planning annual expansions) where there was basically no reason to. To do it now would be the most plausible thing and not even problematic.

    I'm pretty sure that good project management would have pre-planned a situation with delays and messed up schedules and at least back in May 2020 it was very obvious that the pandemic wasn't going away anytime soon. And back then they could have easily changed the direction of the patch cadence for Shadowlands. At the latest when it became obvious that they could not make the initial release date and everything would get delayed subsequently they should have made backup plans for the rollout of the expansion.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Afaik they didn't tell us that 9.2 will be bigger than 9.1, Ion just said it will be "pretty epic" story-wise.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why would they have been already working on 9.3 when 9.1 hasn't been out yet and is delayed. 9.2? Granted. But 9.3? They most likely wouldn't have touched it yet besides maybe some concepts on where to go and what to do, with or without the pandemic. I really don't think they have four teams working on 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 and 10.0 simultaneously.
    You don't know how much Blizzard may or may not have done on any potential patches though. Not to mention that if they would excise a patch then 9.2 is the far more likely candidate as that one is usually more of a filler patch.

    Yes, they likely have not done much, but they could have done something. For all we know the second 9.1 zones and quesstlines were done the work behan intently on 9.2, creating content that would be a waste to get rid of. They also might have just gone straight ot 9.3 and I wouldnt think it impossible, but that would require Blizzard directly lying by omission on the patch cycle of Shadowlands for extremely shaky reasons, knowing there would be a massive fallout.

    And again, Blizzard might have quite simply decided that they would go through with 9.2 and 9.3 past the point of no return. There is nothing stopping their plan being a smaller 9.2 or 9.3 patch. The content we expect from a patch is so varied that even excising chunks might not make it immediately noticeable. Take for instance the heritage armors. They started in 8.1, and it would have made sense to continue that pattern in Shadowlands with 9.1, but instead we got nothing of that sort, which might have been a deliberate choice.


    In short, while the expansion could go to 9.2 and be done, it could also go to 9.3 with less content. There is no proof in any direction except players considering 9.1 to have ended on a cliffhanger that seems to make further patches difficult, this despite there stil being quests not available to see. Things could change.
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  17. #3177
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I heard that they cut a lot of content from Korthia from initial pre-PTR concepting to now. He said if you look at the early parts of the Korthia mapa, it had a lot more structures and things seemingly put in and was stripped bare and now is just a barebones daily quest hub.
    Source????

  18. #3178
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Source????
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    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  19. #3179
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    "Trust me bro".
    There’s a lot of that recently

    Just like with the 9.3 discussion
    I’m ready to see what storylines are going to be burned through in 9.2

  20. #3180
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    You don't know how much Blizzard may or may not have done on any potential patches though. Not to mention that if they would excise a patch then 9.2 is the far more likely candidate as that one is usually more of a filler patch.

    Yes, they likely have not done much, but they could have done something. For all we know the second 9.1 zones and quesstlines were done the work behan intently on 9.2, creating content that would be a waste to get rid of. They also might have just gone straight ot 9.3 and I wouldnt think it impossible, but that would require Blizzard directly lying by omission on the patch cycle of Shadowlands for extremely shaky reasons, knowing there would be a massive fallout.

    And again, Blizzard might have quite simply decided that they would go through with 9.2 and 9.3 past the point of no return. There is nothing stopping their plan being a smaller 9.2 or 9.3 patch. The content we expect from a patch is so varied that even excising chunks might not make it immediately noticeable. Take for instance the heritage armors. They started in 8.1, and it would have made sense to continue that pattern in Shadowlands with 9.1, but instead we got nothing of that sort, which might have been a deliberate choice.


    In short, while the expansion could go to 9.2 and be done, it could also go to 9.3 with less content. There is no proof in any direction except players considering 9.1 to have ended on a cliffhanger that seems to make further patches difficult, this despite there stil being quests not available to see. Things could change.
    Then they cut 9.2 and made 9.3 the "new" 9.2. They would have known way beforehand, so it really doesn't matter.

    And lying??? There is no general rule for patches or patch cadence. They can do whatever they want and they don't have to tell us. The only thing they have to tell us is if 9.2 is indeed the final patch like they did back with 6.2 in WoD.

    And fallout? Again, we're back on schedule if we get the next expansion in Q4/22. Everything lines up perfectly with 9.2 being the last patch coming in December / January. There won't be any fallout. The fallout we have is the long wait for 9.1, everything after that is as expected and back to normal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    There’s a lot of that recently

    Just like with the 9.3 discussion
    I’m ready to see what storylines are going to be burned through in 9.2
    I mean you're saying the next expansion is releasing in late 2023, so who lives in a glass house...
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