1. #3941
    Quote Originally Posted by hipolnalrt View Post
    To all the people upset about the story being about the cosmos, literally every expansion has expanded on our understanding of the cosmos.

    BC - Burning Legion, and the Light
    WotLK - Ulduar and the Titans and the void
    Cata - Old gods, void, some Emerald Dream stuff
    MoP - Titans and old god/void
    WoD - Burning Legion and some void and light stuff

    You get it.
    We're getting to "jumping the shark" territory at this point, and the quality of the story indicates as such. In general, you can tell when a franchise is jumping the shark when the do things like introduce time travel, jump to different planes of reality, the stakes in the story jump to astronomical levels, you bend previous stories to fit your new narrative, or start doing "cameo of the day" or bringing back dead fan favorites. WoW has done all of these, and it wouldn't be an issue if the consistency and quality was maintained... but it's not.

    As I mentioned in another thread, some things are better left a mystery or unexplored. Why? Expanding into most of the list of things above allows you to hand-wave much of your established story/lore to expand/reset it, yet it is insanely hard to pull off well by even the most talented writers without damaging all your lore or writing yourself into corners. When it comes to WoW, the worst part is that the game itself is not enough to get a good understanding of what's going on, as it leaves so many gaps and inconsistencies that alternative sources (books, etc.) attempt to correct or fill in. That may look nice on paper for a franchise business model, but it's not good for the player of the game.

    What's my prediction for 10.0? We're gonna jump the shark even further, so either jumping to another realm/timeline or having something insanely radical happen back in Azeroth. For 9.2 and beyond? I expect more cameos and "Ha! Everything you experienced in <current xpac, past xpac, past game, you get the idea> wasn't what it seemed! It was all part of the plan!"... although I guess 9.1 is doing this, so it's not that big of a stretch. For a humorous visual, imagine the heist episode of Rick and Morty: the WoW storyline will basically be the heist explanations.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2021-06-28 at 08:51 AM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #3942
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    You gotta love those replies all shitting on retail WoW's awful story. This might be the only place in existence that still gets excited for this shlock.
    Not to be that guy, but most WoW fans don't even know the actual story of the game. This is essentially an argument based off ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    Let's be real here, you've never had a pulse on me or any cogent point at all and are only mad because I'm ruining your safe space.

    S'okay, just be honest about it instead of playing the midwit.
    If you even wonder why you got banned, this is why. You've been at it saying weird shit about Warcraft (Some of it I agree with, most I do not agree with), and you're making fun of the Warcraft playerbase the moment they tell you to calm down and/or point out your hypocrisy. There are better ways of handling constructive criticism and refuting ones own arguments. Please be constructive with your points and logic once you're unbanned, and try not to act immature in a situation that clearly doesn't need to be this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    We're getting to "jumping the shark" territory at this point, and the quality of the story indicates as such. In general, you can tell when a franchise is jumping the shark when the do things like introduce time travel, jump to different planes of reality, the stakes in the story jump to astronomical levels, you bend previous stories to fit your new narrative, or start doing "cameo of the day" or bringing back dead fan favorites. WoW has done all of these, and it wouldn't be an issue if the consistency and quality was maintained... but it's not.

    As I mentioned in another thread, some things are better left a mystery or unexplored. Why? Expanding into most of the list of things above allows you to hand-wave much of your established story/lore to expand/reset it, yet it is insanely hard to pull off well by even the most talented writers without damaging all your lore or writing yourself into corners. When it comes to WoW, the worst part is that the game itself is not enough to get a good understanding of what's going on, as it leaves so many gaps and inconsistencies that alternative sources (books, etc.) attempt to correct or fill in. That may look nice on paper for a franchise business model, but it's not good for the player of the game.

    What's my prediction for 10.0? We're gonna jump the shark even further, so either jumping to another realm/timeline or having something insanely radical happen back in Azeroth. For 9.2 and beyond? I expect more cameos and "Ha! Everything you experienced in <current xpac, past xpac, past game, you get the idea> wasn't what it seemed! It was all part of the plan!"... although I guess 9.1 is doing this, so it's not that big of a stretch. For a humorous visual, imagine the heist episode of Rick and Morty: the WoW storyline will basically be the heist explanations.
    I already explained my theory on what I think 10.0 will be about, so I'll just cut to the chase here and say we're not jumping the shark at all. TBC was full of Warhammer and Starcraft references, I'm shocked all of you guys are saying the franchise has jumped the shark NOW. Not before. NOW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Indeed. That's the distinction, I say -- it's a plot device, not the actual plot proper. An actual expansion focused of that theme would instead focus on it consistently throughout, serving not as a plot device to reach the story, but as a driving force all throughout.
    Yeah, we don't need that though. Time travel is a touchy subject and at best, and it's best left dealt with as a plot-point for an expansion, rather than the main fucking plot of one.

    TBC and Cataclysm are two perfect examples for this.

  3. #3943
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    I already explained my theory on what I think 10.0 will be about, so I'll just cut to the chase here and say we're not jumping the shark at all. TBC was full of Warhammer and Starcraft references, I'm shocked all of you guys are saying the franchise has jumped the shark NOW. Not before. NOW.
    If you base it on forums, WoW has one and a half decade of non-stop shark jumping to look back to. Doesn't seem to have affected it much, though.

  4. #3944
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Ohh hey, someone just got banned, well color me surprised.


    So onwards to other things. Which of the many new mounts are people the most excited for? Which mount do people think they are going to be the most dedicated in farming?
    Personally I do quite love that tasty Mawsworn Charger. Just running around on Invincible gets boring eventually, I need some new ghostly horses to scratch my undead themed transmog itch.
    Personally, I'm most looking forward to the Aquilons from the Kyrian and the Wilderlings from the Night Fae.

    I want to be excited about the hand mounts but something about them seems weird to me. I mean besides being a giant gauntlet.

  5. #3945
    Any thoughts on 10.x being Dragon Isles? With Ysera having all this new lore, and Wrathion scheming with regards to some Dragon Isles mystery, it seems like the most compelling guess about the setting of the next expansion.

    Do you think it will be a place on Azeroth - or perhaps a pocket dimension, where the Dragon Sanctums are located? I think it would be dope if the Obsidian and Ruby Sanctums appeared in the open world someplace, along with Bronze, Green and Blue themed zones.

  6. #3946
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Any thoughts on 10.x being Dragon Isles? With Ysera having all this new lore, and Wrathion scheming with regards to some Dragon Isles mystery, it seems like the most compelling guess about the setting of the next expansion.

    Do you think it will be a place on Azeroth - or perhaps a pocket dimension, where the Dragon Sanctums are located? I think it would be dope if the Obsidian and Ruby Sanctums appeared in the open world someplace, along with Bronze, Green and Blue themed zones.
    I’m almost certain it will be 10.0
    Also I believe they are on Azeroth based on island expedition clues

  7. #3947
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Any thoughts on 10.x being Dragon Isles? With Ysera having all this new lore, and Wrathion scheming with regards to some Dragon Isles mystery, it seems like the most compelling guess about the setting of the next expansion.

    Do you think it will be a place on Azeroth - or perhaps a pocket dimension, where the Dragon Sanctums are located? I think it would be dope if the Obsidian and Ruby Sanctums appeared in the open world someplace, along with Bronze, Green and Blue themed zones.
    I think 10.0 will be Legion on steroids, just like BfA was MoP on steroids and SL WoD on steroids. Dragon Isles are perfect as continent for expansion like this, mostly because it's last hinted big place in lore (on Azeroth) - I doubt Tel'Abim or Undermine would fit.


    ---

    So what you think about Sepulcher? All these finding for keys make it pretty obvious next goal for Jailer and place for 9.2 zone and raid. Same way it was obvious closing Legion portal was next step after collecting keys for that, but this time villain is doing whole collecting part.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2021-06-28 at 08:08 PM.

  8. #3948
    Field Marshal hipolnalrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post

    So what you think about Sepulcher? All these finding for keys make it pretty obvious next goal for Jailer and place for 9.2 zone and raid. Same way it was obvious closing Legion portal was next step after collecting keys for that, but this time villain is doing whole collecting part.
    Watch - this Sepulcher everyone keeps talking about is actually the one in Silverpine Forest. That is where Sylvanas' 3rd death occurred.

  9. #3949
    Epic! Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipolnalrt View Post
    Watch - this Sepulcher everyone keeps talking about is actually the one in Silverpine Forest. That is where Sylvanas' 3rd death occurred.
    Would be funny if that is the case actually, everyone speculating where or what it is but it's literally the place named the Sepulcher.
    Last edited by Gifdwarf; 2021-06-29 at 12:11 AM.

  10. #3950
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Would be funny if that is the case actually, everyone speculating where or what it is but it's literally the place named the Sepulcher.
    There is also Sepulcher in northern Maldraxxus where we have some side questline. Well, if this whole hyped closed place is just this - THAT would be funny.

  11. #3951
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Ruby Sanctums appeared in the open world
    Argh!

    Haha... never did get that 25H kill.

  12. #3952
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    There is also Sepulcher in northern Maldraxxus where we have some side questline. Well, if this whole hyped closed place is just this - THAT would be funny.
    The new broker lore books actually mention that the Sepulcher in Maldraxxus is not the Sepulcher of the First Ones.

  13. #3953
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Any thoughts on 10.x being Dragon Isles? With Ysera having all this new lore, and Wrathion scheming with regards to some Dragon Isles mystery, it seems like the most compelling guess about the setting of the next expansion.

    Do you think it will be a place on Azeroth - or perhaps a pocket dimension, where the Dragon Sanctums are located? I think it would be dope if the Obsidian and Ruby Sanctums appeared in the open world someplace, along with Bronze, Green and Blue themed zones.
    Dragon Isles would be far more preferable to what’s going on in this expansion. However, regardless of what the next expansion theme is, WoW really needs a new class. By the time we play 10.0, it would have been 6 years since Demon Hunters. That’s far too large a gap.

    Fingers crossed that WoW: Undermine was a clever Blizzard leak and not just an April Fool’s gag.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-06-29 at 02:50 PM.

  14. #3954
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    No. It’s a .1 patch.

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    Legion had (arguably) a bigger .1 tbh. And it doesn’t even have a new zone.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That just means 9.1 has the stuff of a .2 patch. Does mean it is a .2 patch.

    :/

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    People really love to use half-baked logic huh?
    I think from their recent interviews it's pretty clear what 9.1 really is.

    This part here is very telling:

    We had the sense that players would be contending with Sylvanas for a while now, that they would be delving into and learning more about the nature of the Maw, and the Jailer’s power in this first major content update. But, the specific details of the twists and turns the story is going to take, who the bosses in the raid are, even some of the major narrative moments that we’re going to see play out in the coming weeks are things that came together at the end of last year, and the beginning of this year.

    Pretty sure they conceptually tacked 9.1 together in a short amount of time, the same time they made the decision to merge 9.1 and 9.2 (or to leave out 9.1 completely and make 9.2 the patch we're getting now) and end this expansion on 9.2(.5) and not 9.3. Sure, right now this is guesswork, but we'll know in 3-4 months. It just shows how much their development for Shadowlands and its content patches has been hit by COVID. The massive brain drain doesn't help either, but that's another story.

    It's funny how they're already spreading the seeds for Sylvanas' redemption arc and how she'll be part of the game / franchise in the future. This is no coincidence and the delay of the Sylvanas novel isn't a coincidence either. Getting out of that storytelling corner they maneuvered themselves in is hard, isn't it?
    Last edited by Nyel; 2021-06-29 at 03:03 PM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  15. #3955
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Dragon Isles would be far more preferable to what’s going on in this expansion. However, regardless of what the next expansion theme is, WoW really needs a new class. By the time we play 10.0, it would have been 6 years since Demon Hunters. That’s far too large a gap.

    Fingers crossed that WoW: Undermine was a clever Blizzard leak and not just an April Fool’s gag.
    A Dragon-themed class sounds cool but realistically I see the Dragon Flights as being Covenants 2.0

    Now - a Dragon playable race would be amazing. Like Worgen, but you can pick any race to be your Out-of-Combat form instead of being Human-locked.

  16. #3956
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I think from their recent interviews it's pretty clear what 9.1 really is.

    This part here is very telling:

    We had the sense that players would be contending with Sylvanas for a while now, that they would be delving into and learning more about the nature of the Maw, and the Jailer’s power in this first major content update. But, the specific details of the twists and turns the story is going to take, who the bosses in the raid are, even some of the major narrative moments that we’re going to see play out in the coming weeks are things that came together at the end of last year, and the beginning of this year.

    Pretty sure they conceptually tacked 9.1 together in a short amount of time, the same time they made the decision to merge 9.1 and 9.2 (or to leave out 9.1 completely and make 9.2 the patch we're getting now) and end this expansion on 9.2(.5) and not 9.3. Sure, right now this is guesswork, but we'll know in 3-4 months. It just shows how much their development for Shadowlands and its content patches has been hit by COVID. The massive brain drain doesn't help either, but that's another story.

    It's funny how they're already spreading the seeds for Sylvanas' redemption arc and how she'll be part of the game / franchise in the future. This is no coincidence and the delay of the Sylvanas novel isn't a coincidence either. Getting out of that storytelling corner they maneuvered themselves in is hard, isn't it?
    Classic Nyel, already spreading shade cause you don't understand quote.

    Dude, most bosses in every raid are no names. It's obvious they started doing this raid and patch this year. Only boss that matter from plot perspective is Sylvanas, even Kelthuzad is not important at all in whole story, his purpose is just to draw some nostalgia, he could be replaced with random lich and nothing would happen.

    But it doesn't mean Maw wasn't planned as season 2. Hell, it was even very easy to predict, in modern expansions (WoD onward) second raids always resolves initial plot (Iron Horde, gathering pillars, war on Kul Tiras/Zandalar) and always happen on existing land. Korthia and megadungeon probably wouldn't happen.

    (Btw, legendary/future raid sets were called "Maw_raid" in Alpha/Beta for a reason.)

    It also doesn't mean 9.1/9.2 are merged, 10.0 will have Tinker or tomorrow will be alien invasion. Stop treating every single piece of info as confirmation of your predictions. I told you people months ago that pushing so hard pro 9.3 or against 9.3 will just make you look like clown in the future. Cause we literally has no info.

  17. #3957
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I think from their recent interviews it's pretty clear what 9.1 really is.

    This part here is very telling:

    We had the sense that players would be contending with Sylvanas for a while now, that they would be delving into and learning more about the nature of the Maw, and the Jailer’s power in this first major content update. But, the specific details of the twists and turns the story is going to take, who the bosses in the raid are, even some of the major narrative moments that we’re going to see play out in the coming weeks are things that came together at the end of last year, and the beginning of this year.

    Pretty sure they conceptually tacked 9.1 together in a short amount of time, the same time they made the decision to merge 9.1 and 9.2 (or to leave out 9.1 completely and make 9.2 the patch we're getting now) and end this expansion on 9.2(.5) and not 9.3. Sure, right now this is guesswork, but we'll know in 3-4 months. It just shows how much their development for Shadowlands and its content patches has been hit by COVID. The massive brain drain doesn't help either, but that's another story.

    It's funny how they're already spreading the seeds for Sylvanas' redemption arc and how she'll be part of the game / franchise in the future. This is no coincidence and the delay of the Sylvanas novel isn't a coincidence either. Getting out of that storytelling corner they maneuvered themselves in is hard, isn't it?
    You do realize her story ending in 9.1 would make absolutely no sense, right?

  18. #3958
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    We had the sense that players would be contending with Sylvanas for a while now, that they would be delving into and learning more about the nature of the Maw, and the Jailer’s power in this first major content update.
    If anything, the bolded parts strongly indicate that what 9.1 is what they've always planned, not some amalgamation of it and 9.2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    But, the specific details of the twists and turns the story is going to take, who the bosses in the raid are, even some of the major narrative moments that we’re going to see play out in the coming weeks are things that came together at the end of last year, and the beginning of this year.
    In terms of story development, that's what always happens - first you decide the overall direction of the main story and then you flesh it out by adding details or even changing stuff, based on internal and player feedback, at the early stages of development, which 9.1 just so happened to be at at the end of last year. That's not "telling" or surprising, it's normal.

    And as for raid bosses, I think in WoD they had a blog on how they design raid bosses and the takeaway was that they start with the overall concept of the theme and story, i.e. who the main villain is, what the players are meant to achieve, what is the raid themed about, and then they populate the instance with bosses that match.

    And it's not surprising that a lot of the bosses for Sanctum of Domination might have been thrown there based on what they were deciding to do with other suff, like after 9.0 they got a lot of feedback that people don't really enjoy the Eye of the Jailer or Torghast death limitation, so when they chose to change them, that's likely when the idea of having the Eye and Tarragrue as raid bosses came in, because a) it makes sense for the raid, b) people already know the names (which is important, because each raid needs a couple of reckognizeable bosses), c) a lot of folks will enjoy having a little payback and d) it helps explain why these mechanics are gone. I don't see anything strange in that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Pretty sure they conceptually tacked 9.1 together in a short amount of time, the same time they made the decision to merge 9.1 and 9.2 (or to leave out 9.1 completely and make 9.2 the patch we're getting now) and end this expansion on 9.2(.5) and not 9.3.
    Pretty sure you're trying way too hard to find confirmation for your theory, resulting in you seeing things that just aren't there - so far there's nothing in 9.1 that points towards 9.3 being cut (or being a thing). Like, we don't even know what will happen at the end of the raid, which is going to be the strongest indication. I mean, if it's just the Jailer winning and getting free then yeah, it will seem likely that we beat him in 9.2 and that's it, though - it's also entirely possible that the raid's ending will set up some other threat that we'll have to deal with before or after the Jailer or that their plans have changed and the Jailer is no longer meant to be the finall boss.

    Thus I can agree with you on one thing - we'll see in a couple of weeks or even months. If there's nothing in 9.1 that points towards a major lore twist and they show us 9.2 with the Jailer as the raid boss then I can agree that no 9.3 is likely, but until then there's really no way to tell.
    Last edited by Sarethion; 2021-06-29 at 11:27 PM.

  19. #3959
    When can we start expecting news on 10.0, blizzcon 2022?

    We should be into 9.2 by then, no?

    I guess we'll wrap up big blue man in 9.3 in about a year.

  20. #3960
    You guys better not be on some weird assumption that Zovaal isn’t the last boss…

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