1. #3981
    I would argue that the thing about Zovaal being the final villain is that the final villain is not necessarily the same as the final boss.

    Legion for instance had Argus as the final boss, but I would argue that really the final villain was Sargeras. He is afterall the one directly responsible for not just the bosses in the raid, but specifically the one that makes Argus fight us.
    WoD as well I would argue that Archimonde was only the final boss, the final villain was Gul'dan.

    WoD was a pretty clear cut case where the final villain changed during development, but it at least took the time to concisely show the moment the final villain went from being Grom to Gul'dan in a cutscene.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  2. #3982
    so After sylvanas separated from Nathanos, she didn't know what happened to Nathanos?

    The separation between sylvanas and Nathanos is very strange, aren’t they a romantic relationship? I mean Nathanos helped sylvanas do a lot of things, why did she abandon him only because of a failed assassination mission?

  3. #3983
    Quote Originally Posted by YYDelive View Post
    so After sylvanas separated from Nathanos, she didn't know what happened to Nathanos?

    The separation between sylvanas and Nathanos is very strange, aren’t they a romantic relationship? I mean Nathanos helped sylvanas do a lot of things, why did she abandon him only because of a failed assassination mission?
    It is extremely odd. It seems almost entirely done to facilitate Sylvanas' redemption.

    I mean honestly, what else could the intended endgame be? Sylvanas didnt think Nathanos would die? That the people of Azeroth would just lie down and wait for Sylvanas to do her thing and leave Nathanos alone until whatever nebulous part of her plan happened?

    All in all, like so much in Shadowlands it just makes Sylvanas come off as beyond hte pale stupid. And though it certainly makes it easier ot buy her redemption if she was genuinely tricked by the Jailer, it is still quite the stretch to assume that Sylvanas is that profoundly thick that she looked at the giant blue man commanding hellish legions of the damned in a grand crusade to end all creation and figured this guy was on the up and up.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  4. #3984
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It is extremely odd. It seems almost entirely done to facilitate Sylvanas' redemption.

    I mean honestly, what else could the intended endgame be? Sylvanas didnt think Nathanos would die? That the people of Azeroth would just lie down and wait for Sylvanas to do her thing and leave Nathanos alone until whatever nebulous part of her plan happened?

    All in all, like so much in Shadowlands it just makes Sylvanas come off as beyond hte pale stupid. And though it certainly makes it easier ot buy her redemption if she was genuinely tricked by the Jailer, it is still quite the stretch to assume that Sylvanas is that profoundly thick that she looked at the giant blue man commanding hellish legions of the damned in a grand crusade to end all creation and figured this guy was on the up and up.

    Both Sylvanas and Nathanos know that they are already famous villains in Azeroth. Make me feel like Sylvanas deliberately directs all his attention to Nathanos. Sylvanas also clearly understands that if Nathanos is alone, he will be chased by the Alliance and the Horde.

    I guess Nathanos's soul is imprisoned in torghast, maybe he will be seen in the plot in the future?
    Last edited by YYDelive; 2021-06-30 at 09:27 AM.

  5. #3985
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    bro
    tyrande the archer strangling sylvanas...while she has daggers at her side
    strangling her
    not using the daggers
    love plot armor

    this is like the last jedi with the guard that was fighting rey and only used one knife while the other hand with a knife was just chilling
    Im really curious what the plan is though? I mean, Tyrande kills sylvanas... then...

    Jailor: "Shouldnt you be in Ardenweald?"
    Sylvanas: "oh yeah, thats pretty much finished. I bumped into Tyrande and she gave me a port back".

  6. #3986
    If we get an intermission patch before facing the Jailer then I'm sure it will be something related to Elune and finding out why she didn't kept giving Tyrande "unlimited powa".

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    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Im really curious what the plan is though? I mean, Tyrande kills sylvanas... then...

    Jailor: "Shouldnt you be in Ardenweald?"
    Sylvanas: "oh yeah, thats pretty much finished. I bumped into Tyrande and she gave me a port back".
    That is not how it works. Souls get dragged into the shadowlands by Kyrians and fed into the slotmachinearbiter. She dying as a "living" being in ardenweald would mean nothing, unless someone comes along and claims her soul to drag it back to the Maw/Jailer. While this would have surely happened, again, because plot armor, it would have been at least a somewhat tangible win for Tyrande though. Her just running off means nothing changed, only Tyrande is worse off now while Sylvanas is still untouched. This isn't even a pyrric victory, which is a common and valuable lesson in a narrative, it's just flat out losing while getting bullied by the winner in Tyrande's case.
    Last edited by Felis igneus; 2021-07-01 at 01:28 AM.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
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  7. #3987
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Pretty sure she was trying to rip her head off, just like she decapitated Nathanos.
    And Sylvanas lost the daggers.
    tyrande has them

  8. #3988
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    tyrande has them
    oh, you meant the daggers on her waist.
    I only just now noticed them.

    This is indeed very fucking dumb.

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  9. #3989
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Pretty sure she was trying to rip her head off, just like she decapitated Nathanos.
    And Sylvanas lost the daggers.
    Tyrande also has the excuse of having a rather serious case of brash hothead who runs into fights without thinking.

    The whole search for Fatescribe Roh-Kalo questline, on the other hand... what kind of retard do they take the Mawwalker to be? I figured out that something was up before i even got through the first quest. That spy isn't even trying to stay in character.

  10. #3990
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    I thik more and more that the next patch is the last one. There is just nothing building up in the background except the main story with the old gang (anduin, slyv, tyrande, mr. baldy). There is nothing like "warbringers: azshara" hanging all over the place all the time with Azshara (one patch) and nzoth (another patch). There is nothing - what the hell should 9.3 be?
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  11. #3991
    "And now for something completely different for 9.2: The Dragon Isles! Because Argusing Nazjatar just wasn't enough!"
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  12. #3992
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    Oh my sweet summer child...

    Dicks out for Jaylock everyone
    ahhhh, the good ol days
    jaylock and the other 9 or 10 or so who got perma'd, all legends in their own right
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  13. #3993
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I thik more and more that the next patch is the last one. There is just nothing building up in the background except the main story with the old gang (anduin, slyv, tyrande, mr. baldy). There is nothing like "warbringers: azshara" hanging all over the place all the time with Azshara (one patch) and nzoth (another patch). There is nothing - what the hell should 9.3 be?
    I'm actually more than ever convinced there is at least a chance for 2 more patches, unless the final one also deals with Elune. Whatever happens next week, they set up that Elune betrayed/ran out of power/needs Tyrande for something. Since we all pretty much assume the Janitor wins, they could do some side story where we figure some Elune and Devourer stuff out while looking for more power to deal with the Janitor or they could throw all of it together with whatever we do in in the final build up to fighting him. We will know more next week with the raid cinematic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    The whole search for Fatescribe Roh-Kalo questline, on the other hand... what kind of retard do they take the Mawwalker to be? I figured out that something was up before i even got through the first quest. That spy isn't even trying to stay in character.
    Well. us lacking agency is nothing new, especially as a Horde player. We had to help Zul arfter all despite him doing obviously traitorous things during his quests in Zandalar. It was so painfully obvious that I just wanted to punch some of the quest designers. As for the fate scribe, I personally was even more offended by the poor mustache twirrling at the end. You know, a fully armored Natherzim in raidboss getup shows up, but instead of killing us, she orders the half nacked underling 1/3rd the size to do the deed while running away herself. That was just incomprehensibly dumb, we were incapacitated and literally in striking distance. One swing with her claws would have ended our saga. At least make a believable scenario in such cases.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  14. #3994
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Well. us lacking agency is nothing new, especially as a Horde player. We had to help Zul arfter all despite him doing obviously traitorous things during his quests in Zandalar. It was so painfully obvious that I just wanted to punch some of the quest designers. As for the fate scribe, I personally was even more offended by the poor mustache twirrling at the end. You know, a fully armored Natherzim in raidboss getup shows up, but instead of killing us, she orders the half nacked underling 1/3rd the size to do the deed while running away herself. That was just incomprehensibly dumb, we were incapacitated and literally in striking distance. One swing with her claws would have ended our saga. At least make a believable scenario in such cases.
    I can accept that the genre rather limits possibilities for story agency. Any significant story deviation would quickly end you up with hundreds of diverging storylines, which isn't feasibly doable for any dev studio, and attempts to automatically generate fitting stories have so far been... less than compelling.

    Zul may even make some sense - we had good reason to assume he was no good, but the Horde needed the Zandalari, who didn't know. As long as they didn't pick up on it, there wasn't much to be done since they were still wary of outsiders.

    On the other hand, the PC should have been well enough aware that something's not right here even for the low-int classes with little understanding of deceit. Rogues and classes that require smarts just to learn have absolutely no excuse for falling for that nonsense. The whole retarded saturday morning mustache twirling just adds the crap cherry on the shitpile. The scenario had no way of being believable pretty much from the start.

  15. #3995
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    So, leaving the garbage lore aside, what are the classic recipes available in the cataclysm timewalking?
    Kiatke, the Cataclysm Timewalking vendor, now sells several unavailable classic recipes.
    Because i wanted for a fuckton of time to get the Darksoul Shoulders, but seems like they were classic only and i never knew anyone who could craft

  16. #3996
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Zul may even make some sense - we had good reason to assume he was no good, but the Horde needed the Zandalari, who didn't know. As long as they didn't pick up on it, there wasn't much to be done since they were still wary of outsiders.
    Our contact was Talaji though and she was already distrusting of Zul and the others on the council. That we couldn't warn her properly is just annoying, especially given how on the nose the whole thing was. Same with the quest where you kill the other prophet, everything is scripted for the memes/tropes instead of the actual story happening, so even if you decide to wait and let him finish his speak, he never does, despite it appearing rather important to our task to get as much information as possible. I don't think the fate scribe is anymore egregious. I just pretended I went along with it like with Saurfang/Syvlanas to get more intel out of it, best you can do in WoW anyway.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  17. #3997
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Our contact was Talaji though and she was already distrusting of Zul and the others on the council. That we couldn't warn her properly is just annoying, especially given how on the nose the whole thing was. Same with the quest where you kill the other prophet, everything is scripted for the memes/tropes instead of the actual story happening, so even if you decide to wait and let him finish his speak, he never does, despite it appearing rather important to our task to get as much information as possible.
    What about we helping out Maghata? the one who murdered fucking Cairne? the devs are demented and don't know the lore that much or just don't have that on a personal level, or a feeling of attachment, they prob though it would be neat to see an old "badass character"
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-07-01 at 10:50 AM.

  18. #3998
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    What about we helping out Maghata? the one who murdered fucking Cairne? the devs are demented and don't know the lore that much or just don't have that on a personal level, or a feeling of attachment., they prob though it would be neat see a old "badass character"
    Ah don't remind me. Luckily I didn't play shaman much in legion.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  19. #3999
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    A Dragon-themed class sounds cool but realistically I see the Dragon Flights as being Covenants 2.0

    Now - a Dragon playable race would be amazing. Like Worgen, but you can pick any race to be your Out-of-Combat form instead of being Human-locked.
    Yeah, I just don't see Blizzard putting out another expansion without a new class. If they're not going to do a dragon-themed class, then the next expansion being based on Dragon Isles suddenly becomes more doubtful.

  20. #4000
    Nice, they introduced modern Legion style flight point maps for Pandaria and Draenor, now whole world have these. Also ui is slightly different when you ding achievement.

    Anyone noticed more small changes like that?

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